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How do you balance your music production against "other societal worries"? Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 11th July 2018
  #271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Your theory is so full of holes.
I'm pretty sure this whole thread is a bunch of people with much better things to do entertaining a 19 year old college kid's no-life-experience theoretical meanderings.
Old 11th July 2018
  #272
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Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
No worries, just right. Yeah, I went to an Outback last night.
My dear, departed grandmother laughed out loud when Outback first opened in her town. When she was a little farm girl in Kentucky, the outback was where you went do do your business.
Old 11th July 2018
  #273
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundmodel View Post
My personal interpretation is that making music is less useful, but more pleasurable. Thus I see some dichotomy there (in equivalenting art and service jobs).
Right, so making music is immoral, but playing the currency markets, pole dancing, tarot card reading, or croupier in a casino is more useful and less pleasurable, so it’s fine.
Old 11th July 2018
  #274
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Music is the salve that eases the trauma of life. Music is a healer, a companion, a vehicle of inspiration, a spiritual guide. Music is the perfect friend, the road trip buddy, the one that makes you dance and sing under the stars.

We need musicians to animate life. Would you wish birds, whales, elephants and gorillas to stop making their music? There is a reason music exists, you cannot think it away anymore than you can think breathing away.

And musicians? Where you see indulgence, I see sacrifice. I see a life committed to the service of others. I see lives that forego the comforts of home for the rigors of the traveling show. The one that brings joy to others.

Have you ever seen a child dance? Without music, you might as well just turn the lights off and live in the darkness that is more than willing to take over.
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Old 11th July 2018
  #275
The OP fits this description to a T....

The Intellectual Yet Idiot – INCERTO – Medium

Intellectual Yet Idiot (IYI).

Quote:
The IYI pathologizes others for doing things he doesn’t understand without ever realizing it is his understanding that may be limited. He thinks people should act according to their best interests and he knows their interests
Sound familiar?
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Old 11th July 2018
  #276
Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
I'm pretty sure this whole thread is a bunch of people with much better things to do entertaining a 19 year old college kid's no-life-experience theoretical meanderings.
I don’t disagree, but for me it’s lighthearted relief from my music making watching someone tie themselves in unreconcilable knots of contradiction and hypocrisy.
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Old 11th July 2018
  #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
I'm pretty sure this whole thread is a bunch of people with much better things to do entertaining a 19 year old college kid's no-life-experience theoretical meanderings.
I was visiting a friend when his son, who had just graduated from college, said, "Dad, I've decided to take a year off and write a book about the meaning of life."

Dad gave this a moment to sink in, and then said... "A year off from what?"
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Old 11th July 2018
  #278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
I don’t disagree, but for me it’s lighthearted relief from my music making watching someone tie themselves in unreconcilable knots of contradiction and hypocrisy.
Yeah I'm a moth to the flame for ideological discussions too. Solid entertainment. Deserving of a far larger morality gold star than making art.
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Old 11th July 2018
  #279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
I don’t disagree, but for me it’s lighthearted relief from my music making watching someone tie themselves in unreconcilable knots of contradiction and hypocrisy.
That's kinda too bad that you need that. For me, music-making is the lighthearted relief.
Old 11th July 2018
  #280
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Living in one of the top 5 ranked Happiest Nations on Earth (which incidentally has a very high level of social support networks, paid for by taxes)...he seems to have slipped through the Happiness Net: Tax and happiness - Rear Vision - ABC Radio National (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
Old 11th July 2018
  #281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
That's kinda too bad that you need that. For me, music-making is the lighthearted relief.
Some days, the creative days.

The "finishing it up and getting it all to sound right" for me always aligns with the addage "art is never finished, only surrendered" which comes with a certain degree of agony lol. I have yet to live up to my own ideal.
Old 11th July 2018
  #282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pangolin View Post
Music is the salve that eases the trauma of life. Music is a healer, a companion, a vehicle of inspiration, a spiritual guide. Music is the perfect friend, the road trip buddy, the one that makes you dance and sing under the stars.

We need musicians to animate life. Would you wish birds, whales, elephants and gorillas to stop making their music? There is a reason music exists, you cannot think it away anymore than you can think breathing away.

And musicians? Where you see indulgence, I see sacrifice. I see a life committed to the service of others. I see lives that forego the comforts of home for the rigors of the traveling show. The one that brings joy to others.

Have you ever seen a child dance? Without music, you might as well just turn the lights off and live in the darkness that is more than willing to take over.
Beliefs like this can't be argued against. Music makes life bearable and I feel it is a necessity as much as food, water, etc.

PM me.
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Old 11th July 2018
  #283
Gear Maniac
 

A valuable exercise: refrain from insults, restrain from 'proving' someone wrong or pointing out 'hypocrisy,' and simply say, 'I disagree, because I believe (insert beliefs here).'

It's not as stimulating, but it's a whole hell of a lot more liberating!
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Old 11th July 2018
  #284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
That's kinda too bad that you need that. For me, music-making is the lighthearted relief.
Music is everything. It can be fun, it can be exhilarating, it can be frustrating, it can be hard work, it can be dispiriting.
When I’m working on my own music, with no collaborator, it’s taxing, hard work and I’m often frustrated with the final outcome - always wanting to be better.
Anyway, that’s at the core of my beef with ‘soundmodel’. For me music is often hard work and involves sacrifice, both financial and personal.
I think it’s like that for most.
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Old 11th July 2018
  #285
During the last two pages of this thread since yesterday I have recorded the beginnings of a new song, solved a technical problem in my studio, pursued a job interest, took my son to a movie (antman), finished the last 4 chapters of Intellectuals and Society by Thomas Sowell, played with my dog and had dinner out with my family (pizza).

I’m sure all these things make me amoral in the twisted vision of the OP and frankly I don’t give a damn. I’d rather live this allegedly amoral life than the life this crackpot wishes to impose on others. Honestly I’d rather be dead than live in this guys ideal quasi-intellectual dreamworld.

Old 11th July 2018
  #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Music is everything. It can be fun, it can be exhilarating, it can be frustrating, it can be hard work, it can be dispiriting.
When I’m working on my own music, with no collaborator, it’s taxing, hard work and I’m often frustrated with the final outcome - always wanting to be better.
I get that. But I try to have some perspective, too. I've done 10-hour shifts as a dishwasher and pounded street-sign poles into the ground and rousted bats out of 120-degree attics.

There are probably 100 people within a hundred yards of me right now who have do things that are at least as unpleasant to survive.

Doing music, even at its most taxing and dispiriting, is way more fun. Just my opinion.

Last edited by Brent Hahn; 11th July 2018 at 06:49 PM..
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Old 11th July 2018
  #287
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Old 11th July 2018
  #288
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Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
Haha that's awesome. And somewhat true. The more of a money-making creative you are, the more you can play the "this is what I need to do what I do" card and have everyone else in the industry work around that.
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Old 12th July 2018
  #289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
I get that. But I try to have some perspective, too. I've done 10-hour shifts as a dishwasher and pounded street-sign poles into the ground and rousted bats out of 120-degree attics.
You're reading me wrong and taking this far too seriously.
I totally have perspective on how lucky I am.
Posting at Gearslutz is still lighthearted relaxation for me. It would be even if I was deliriously happy on a particular music project.
How does saying I find posting here relaxing and relief from hard work mean I don't love being a musician and enjoy my day to day exploits in music? Of course it doesn't.
Old 12th July 2018
  #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
Haha that's awesome. And somewhat true. The more of a money-making creative you are, the more you can play the "this is what I need to do what I do" card and have everyone else in the industry work around that.
Nor should it be surprising to find argumentation that revolves around "protecting one's position". Now compared to some others here, I'm at least arguing in such way that I have like half of my leg in the issue as well and I'm still willing to take some more of it out there, because I consider social moral more important than self-granted pleasure. I can switch the arrangement around and consider, well do I really think that others would work in demanding, dangerous and not so fun jobs, rather than in pleasurable and not very difficult jobs. And then I think that, no, everyone would pick the "better choice", but they are responsible to not do so, because perhaps they recognize that moral and responsibility also play significant parts in human communities. Not just trying to benefit from the community towards individual hedonism.

Risks, value of art, passion, whatever. I read that they're slight excuses for "this is why you and others should still let me enjoy myself, while you can do the work". Perhaps similarly to how a wealthy person would argue for the retaining of his/her, possibly inherited wealth. Since there are no legal tools to modify this arrangement, well except by imposing a more utilitarian view on the governments (actually art school monetary support has been shrinking and the motive has been "it's not useful") then moral "propaganda" is one way to do it.

Also this view of mine cannot be even properly assessed yet, because it depends on that social acceptance.

Last edited by soundmodel; 12th July 2018 at 09:29 AM..
Old 12th July 2018
  #291
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Also, the "valuation" imposed here might be initiated by me, but it doesn't mean that it's just me imposing it. The idea that I have is that by spreading that valuation it can gain some prevalence and then the potential elevated social conscience will lead to reconsideration of "privileged people" and/or "the oppressed". This is how it works in animal ethics, in labour politics etc. And it's a central property of why free speech is important. If no-one would ever present anything, even if it sounded weird to some, then no new viewpoints could ever spring out. Once and if it establishes itself as a social truth, then it becomes true.
Old 12th July 2018
  #292
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Just because you (Soundmodel) would pick the easy jobs doesn’t mean others would. Otherwise no one would choose to join the army (especially special forces) or go into construction. Some people like the challenge.
Old 12th July 2018
  #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acid Mitch View Post
Just because you (Soundmodel) would pick the easy jobs doesn’t mean others would. Otherwise no one would choose to join the army (especially special forces) or go into construction. Some people like the challenge.
But that I would argue is almost as superficial as going into art because of passion. Passion or even interest is not enough. More fundamental fields have more fundamental than subjective aspects. => They are not to be treated equivalently.

Also, I do believe that the "better over worse" or "pleasure over pain" has some universal relevance. Since it's at least up to some level biological feature. It's biological for animals to seek better circumstances.
Old 12th July 2018
  #294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soundmodel View Post
. If no-one would ever present anything, even if it sounded weird to some, then no new viewpoints could ever spring out. Once and if it establishes itself as a social truth, then it becomes true.
Most of the ideas you are presenting have already been tested , with often disasterous results.
You are failing to bring any new ideas to the table and weighed against the evidence they fail to become true.
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Old 12th July 2018
  #295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soundmodel View Post

Also, I do believe that the "better over worse" or "pleasure over pain" has some universal relevance. Since it's at least up to some level biological feature. It's biological for animals to seek better circumstances.
And yet we have people (animals) who will seek worse circumstances.
Old 12th July 2018
  #296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acid Mitch View Post
Most of the ideas you are presenting have already been tested , with often disasterous results.
You are failing to bring any new ideas to the table and weighed against the evidence they fail to become true.
This sounds like artist propaganda towards regimes that consider their position unwarranted? Which is reasonable, because it would make the other side's stance worse, even if it had some good moral basis.

Caricaturally, capitalists hate communists, because communists want to take the privilege that capitalists have. So it's natural to want to protect the side that one's in. But in social moral and peace, having arrangements that base on countering interests is not a good thing. Because there's freedom to choose one's field/use of time/etc. Then the choices are such that one should be able to then carry on with their potential consequences, rather than blame some abstract regimes. I suspect a bit your interpretation of "disasterous results", for whom? Also, limitation of freedom based on moral is perhaps only a problem for those who are not "fit" for that moral. But since there's freedom to be moral, then there's not much but individual wants defining it.

Also, those regimes may have had more to them. They didn't attack artists just because of them being artists, but also, because totalitarian regimes want to protect their beliefs. That is, they want to silence those that express countering ideas. Therefore it's entirely not the same thing to coerce some artists, because they're socially useless, and coerce them because one has a totalitarian ideologue. One can also speculate as to whether the interpretation of totalitarian being totalitarian is accurate, or whether it's e.g. pro-artist and pro-humanities propaganda aimed to protect the interests of artists and humanists. Because people have a tendency to side with whatever they have their money and effort in, then this is a slight possibility. However, some "siding" is also better motivated than some other.

Now, also, if the choices of people would be entirely subject to market forces, then I could agree up to some point that "if one manages to live off doing it, then there's some viability to it (which though may be based on irrational buyers as well)". However, given current circumstances, it's possible to e.g. become a non-working parasite, if one has inherited enough wealth. That arrangement bases on a temporary immoral political feature and cannot therefore be considered to base on "universal circumstances".

Last edited by soundmodel; 12th July 2018 at 11:07 AM..
Old 12th July 2018
  #297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
You're reading me wrong and taking this far too seriously.
So you angst over your music... but it's a fun angst. :-)
Old 12th July 2018
  #298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soundmodel View Post
This sounds like artist propaganda towards regimes that consider their position unwarranted? Which is reasonable, because it would make the other side's stance worse, even if it had some good moral basis.

Caricaturally, capitalists hate communists, because communists want to take the privilege that capitalists have. So it's natural to want to protect the side that one's in. But in social moral and peace, having arrangements that base on countering interests is not a good thing. Because there's freedom to choose one's field/use of time/etc. Then the choices are such that one should be able to then carry on with their potential consequences, rather than blame some abstract regimes. I suspect a bit your interpretation of "disasterous results", for whom? Also, limitation of freedom based on moral is perhaps only a problem for those who are not "fit" for that moral. But since there's freedom to be moral, then there's not much but individual wants defining it.

Also, those regimes may have had more to them. They didn't attack artists just because of them being artists, but also, because totalitarian regimes want to protect their beliefs. That is, they want to silence those that express countering ideas. Therefore it's entirely not the same thing to coerce some artists, because they're socially useless, and coerce them because one has a totalitarian ideologue. One can also speculate as to whether the interpretation of totalitarian being totalitarian is accurate, or whether it's e.g. pro-artist and pro-humanities propaganda aimed to protect the interests of artists and humanists. Because people have a tendency to side with whatever they have their money and effort in, then this is a slight possibility. However, some "siding" is also better motivated than some other.

Now, also, if the choices of people would be entirely subject to market forces, then I could agree up to some point that "if one manages to live off doing it, then there's some viability to it (which though may be based on irrational buyers as well)". However, given current circumstances, it's possible to e.g. become a non-working parasite, if one has inherited enough wealth. That arrangement bases on a temporary immoral political feature and cannot therefore be considered to base on "universal circumstances".
If you spoke in simpler terms, your position will have more impact.
Old 12th July 2018
  #299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soundmodel View Post
I suspect a bit your interpretation of "disasterous results", for whom? Also, limitation of freedom based on moral is perhaps only a problem for those who are not "fit" for that moral.
Yes, it’s a problem for whoever doesn’t fit into your (or whoever is setting the “code”) entirely arbitrary moral dictation.

Let’s say MY moral code says philosophy is the largest waste of time possible, since absolutely nothing is produced and endless time is wasted pondering pointless “what if’s?” that take good workers away from production. You’re now at fault and must face the consequences, wherever they may be set (death? Imprisonment? Lower rations?). Why? Arbitrary moral code.

Historically, your rationality leads to gays and minorities being dragged from cars, or women being burned as witches. It creates a strong “us vs them” where the “them” can become depersonalized and objectified and, since they sit outside acceptable “morality,” not fully human and open for animalistic treatment if not extermination. These ideas of yours are horrible. They’re very primitive, unoriginal, and uncreative, and if you’ve ever opened a history book theyve been tested since the dawn of human civilization, and they always fail.

The irony of morality is that it’s one of the greatest enablers of evil on earth.
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Old 12th July 2018
  #300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollowman9 View Post
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it’s a duck. Regardless of the rhetoric.
2/3 sees the duck, 1/3 sees a goose...
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