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Kendrick Lamar wins the Pulitzer for Music Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 17th April 2018
  #1
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jnorman's Avatar
Kendrick Lamar wins the Pulitzer for Music

Copland, Corigliano, John Adams, Kendrick Lamar.
I truly have no words...
Old 17th April 2018
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnorman View Post
Copland, Corigliano, John Adams, Kendrick Lamar.
I truly have no words...
Kendrick is more innovative than Corigliano.
Old 17th April 2018
  #3
I don't follow the hip-hop scene, so I never even heard of Kendrick Lamar. Maybe the Pulitzer Committee realized they were in a rut of worthy Contemporary classical/Jazz composers, even though there are plenty of other awards options for the popular music folks. My Composition professor David Ward-Steinman always dreamed of winning a Pulitzer. I doubt he would have been happy about this either.

Quote:
Kendrick is more innovative than Corigliano.
A distinct possibility. If Shostakovich and Prokofiev had a baby, it would be Corgliano. In many cases, however, innovation of innovation's sake, rarely produces good music.
Old 17th April 2018
  #4
Gear Addict
It's perfectly ok if you don't know his work, but the knee jerk put downs are ignorant. Here is the citation:

"Damn, by KendrickLamar - Recording released on April 14, 2017, a virtuosic song collection unified by its vernacular authenticity and rhythmic dynamism that offers affecting vignettes capturing the complexity of modern African-American life."

Instead of cherry picking a few well known composers from the previous winners list, you could also contemplate that Ornette Coleman has also won it. There is no reason that Kendrick isn't also a worthy winner, and as innovative as Ornette. It is also a positive thing that they are stepping outside the predominantly jazz and classical genres who have been featured thus far.

"Storytelling has been Lamar’s greatest skill and most primary mission, to put into (lots of) words what it's like to grow up as he did—to articulate, in human terms, the intimate specifics of daily self-defense from your surroundings. Somehow, he’s gotten better."

-- Matthew Trammell, Pitchfork
Old 17th April 2018
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnorman View Post
Copland, Corigliano, John Adams, Kendrick Lamar.
I truly have no words...
The sudden realization that I'm so out of touch with music and culture that I can't comprehend the reasons for a Pulitzer distiguishment would render me speechless too. Talk about a wake up call.

Time to do some homework and put some effort into tuning back into culture and music.
Old 17th April 2018
  #6
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boombapdame's Avatar
This is a win for Hip Hop which has been "pop" music since 1979. This proves that quality will trump mumble rap every time.
Old 17th April 2018
  #7
Can that "music" be notated and published? Words can be printed on the page but where do you put the notes if there aren't any?
Old 17th April 2018
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
Can that "music" be notated and published? Words can be printed on the page but where do you put the notes if there aren't any?
Music has moved considerably well beyond that which can be printed on paper using the limitations of traditional notation. Traditional notation requires a bunch of presets and givens (IE orchestal and orchestral-type instruments playing within their preset sonic constraints.)

A new middle-man type language (an updated kind of notation) could be devised to incorporate all the new approaches to sonics that are being creatively used in music, of course, so that what's going on with the sonics could be diagramed out onto paper. But the demand just isn't there, and would get really complicated, with 100s of "take this bit of orchestra recording, distort it, run it through a sampler and phasemorph filter it from 20 to 80 over 2 beats with a strong accelleration slope, then pitch bend -20 over 1.5 beats with a moderate accelleration slope" needing to be accounted for. Waaaaaay more sonic performance options now than can be notated on paper in any kind of useful manner.

Music publishing has long accounted for this, this isn't THAT new (much of rock broke down a lot of the clearcut notation boundaries that work for classical type intruments), you don't need a printed page to publish a song. Just a recording.
Old 17th April 2018
  #9
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jimjazzdad's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by itsyourself View Post
It's perfectly ok if you don't know his work, but the knee jerk put downs are ignorant...Instead of cherry picking a few well known composers from the previous winners list, you could also contemplate that Ornette Coleman has also won it. There is no reason that Kendrick isn't also a worthy winner, and as innovative as Ornette. It is also a positive thing that they are stepping outside the predominantly jazz and classical genres who have been featured thus far...
Well, I checked-out a couple of Lamar's videos and all I can say is that his performances have made me appreciate Ornette Coleman a whole lot more
Seriously though, I wish him well and I am glad that some of these staid institutions like the Pulitzer Prize are making room for next generation music. That said, I am not personally a big fan of Hip Hop, Rap, or for that matter, the beat scene of the 50's - all these are more poetic than musical. I tend to like melody in my music, but à chaqun son gout.
Old 17th April 2018
  #10
Quote:
"Damn, by KendrickLamar - Recording released on April 14, 2017, a virtuosic song collection unified by its vernacular authenticity and rhythmic dynamism that offers affecting vignettes capturing the complexity of modern African-American life."
In reality, the song "Humble":

5 notes repeated over and over to a beat in 4/4 time with no variation. With the chorus:

(Hol' up, b&%ch) sit down
(Hol' up lil' b&%ch, hol' up lil' b&%ch) be humble
(Hol' up, b&%ch) sit down
(Sit down, hol' up, lil' b&%ch)
Be humble (b&%ch)
(Hol' up, hol' up, hol' up, hol' up) b&%ch, sit down
Lil' b&%ch (hol' up, lil' b&%ch) be humble
(Hol' up, b&%ch) sit down
(Hol' up, hol' up, hol' up, hol' up) be humble
(Hol' up, hol' up, hol' up, hol' up, lil' b&%ch) sit down
(Hol' up lil' b&%ch) be humble
(Hol' up, b&%ch) sit down
(Hol' up, sit down, lil' b&%ch)
(Sit down, lil' b&%ch, be humble)
(Hol' up, hol' up, hol' up, hol' up, lil' b&%ch) b&%ch, sit down
(Hol' up, b&%ch) be humble
(Hol' up, b&%ch) sit down
(Hol' up, hol' up, hol' up, hol' up)

Last edited by rumleymusic; 17th April 2018 at 08:44 PM.. Reason: Missed a b&%ch
Old 17th April 2018
  #11
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rhizomeman's Avatar
Is it a Pulitzer for words? Music? or words and music? Does he create his own music or does he use what other "producers" have created to rap over?

Just trying to clarify - I have no idea.
Old 17th April 2018
  #12
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Plush's Avatar
Just Shid

Race played a part in this award.
Old 18th April 2018
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
Can that "music" be notated and published? Words can be printed on the page but where do you put the notes if there aren't any?
Rhythm and inflection can be notated.

You can't really notate any performance - all you can notate is the guidelines. Hence the reason no two interpretations are the same.

What an odd point to make!
Old 18th April 2018
  #14
Well, to be fair. The Pulitzer prizes in have always been about cultural significance. Especially in journalism. Even if Damn has little to no musical or literary merit from an academic standpoint. I suppose what it does have in message may have some meaning to a certain segment of our community.

Last edited by rumleymusic; 18th April 2018 at 03:20 PM..
Old 18th April 2018
  #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by rumleymusic View Post
Though I don't see how calling a woman "bitch" 50 times in one song benefits our culture in any way. Seems counter to the Me-Too movement as well as hurtful to any cultural message about "African American life".
I think it's self deferential in this track - he's talking to himself.
Old 18th April 2018
  #16
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It's good to not keep signifying that great or important music only happens in the same genres that existed 50 years ago.

That said, "Damn" wouldn't have been on my list of best albums of this year. Maybe best in its genre, but for me it doesn't get near what I used to consider Pulitzer territory. But I guess I still think of the art Pulitzers as occupying another realm than Emmys and Grammys and it's just not the case.
Old 18th April 2018
  #17
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As a white person, what I don't understand about hip hop is that it seems to me to be based in a negative racial stereotype or derogatory image of black culture. I feel like it insults (and creates a negative caricature of) black people. Also, it seems to me to have a rigidly imposed minimum of poetic and musical elements.
Old 18th April 2018
  #18
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
I think it's self deferential in this track - he's talking to himself.
Ah. That's a bit better, I guess. I couldn't make much sense of the lyrics.
Old 18th April 2018
  #19
Quote:
Originally Posted by rumleymusic View Post
Ah. That's a bit better, I guess. I couldn't make much sense of the lyrics.
Plenty of other things in the lyrics to be offended by - but this bit is ok!
Old 18th April 2018
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
Music has moved considerably well beyond that which can be printed on paper using the limitations of traditional notation. Traditional notation requires a bunch of presets and givens (IE orchestal and orchestral-type instruments playing within their preset sonic constraints.)
English and other languages are so limited too. If only we could could expand our communication possibilities further. They are really holding us back.

Quote:
A new middle-man type language (an updated kind of notation) could be devised to incorporate all the new approaches to sonics that are being creatively used in music, of course, so that what's going on with the sonics could be diagramed out onto paper. But the demand just isn't there, and would get really complicated, with 100s of "take this bit of orchestra recording, distort it, run it through a sampler and phasemorph filter it from 20 to 80 over 2 beats with a strong accelleration slope, then pitch bend -20 over 1.5 beats with a moderate accelleration slope" needing to be accounted for. Waaaaaay more sonic performance options now than can be notated on paper in any kind of useful manner.
Old 18th April 2018
  #21
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whippoorwill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
Race played a part in this award.
absolutely right Plush- race plays a part in every musical award.
Old 18th April 2018
  #22
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Dylan won the Nobel Prize for Literature and many, including me, did not see the merit. Woody Guthrie never won. Neither did Joni Mitchell et. al.

I never listened to Kendrick Lamar, until I heard the Pulitzer news. So I started listening to Damn, and I must say the first track Blood pulled me in and then made its impact. I only listened to a few more tracks but I think the album has cultural relevance even if it is not great music. I've lived in Chicago and in Harlem, and I've seen a lot violence (mostly in Chicago). When I try to explain to people here how life is in the ghettos of big American cities, they cannot even begin to understand.

And the Pulitzer is an American award, and so with gun violence and racism becoming even more problematic I guess the jury wanted to draw even more attention to these issues.

Having said all of that, Kendrick Lamar's work is not my cup of tea but then I don't really dig Kanye West either.
Old 18th April 2018
  #23
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void1985's Avatar
 

You should all listen to To Pimp A Butterfly and Untitled/Unmastered. Those records are simply brilliant. I'm happy he won!
Old 18th April 2018
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsyourself View Post
It's perfectly ok if you don't know his work, but the knee jerk put downs are ignorant. Here is the citation:

"Damn, by KendrickLamar - Recording released on April 14, 2017, a virtuosic song collection unified by its vernacular authenticity and rhythmic dynamism that offers affecting vignettes capturing the complexity of modern African-American life."

Instead of cherry picking a few well known composers from the previous winners list, you could also contemplate that Ornette Coleman has also won it. There is no reason that Kendrick isn't also a worthy winner, and as innovative as Ornette. It is also a positive thing that they are stepping outside the predominantly jazz and classical genres who have been featured thus far.

"Storytelling has been Lamar’s greatest skill and most primary mission, to put into (lots of) words what it's like to grow up as he did—to articulate, in human terms, the intimate specifics of daily self-defense from your surroundings. Somehow, he’s gotten better."

-- Matthew Trammell, Pitchfork
Well said.

Quoted for emphasis...as most of the comments here are based on ignorance and bias.

I remember my beloved grandmother, math and classical piano teacher explaining to me that Beetles music was "trite and easy" and therefore had little musical and cultural value. This was my motivation to consume and learn about every piece of music I could get my hands on and not just pay lip service to it. I consider my grandmother's statement as ignorant as some of the things said here and although I'm not a huge fan of the Beetles music, I at least understand and appreciate the cultural importance of their music and the lasting effect it has had on western society.

There are only two types of music /art in this world, the stuff we like and the stuff we don't like, and the stuff we like is not 'better than' the stuff we don't like...it's just the stuff we like. I don't like or dislike genres...I like or dislike a particular work.

The real problem is that rap has never been forgiven for kicking over the apple cart...it has hogged the top spot for a long while now and (mostly) young black men have a stranglehold on its production, unlike rock & roll, blues and R&B.

Last edited by Samc; 18th April 2018 at 11:56 AM..
Old 18th April 2018
  #25
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Like I said above, the piece Blood drew me in and made its impact. Lamar told his story and made his point very well. Many poets could admire that track.
Old 18th April 2018
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
Just Shid

Race played a part in this award.
Race plays a part in a lot of things in life...who get shot by the police in certain situations, who gets denied (or accepted for) a job, who gets served first in a restaurant, (or who gets thrown out), which school district gets computers....

But your statement is disrespectful and ignorant at best.
Old 18th April 2018
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
Race plays a part in a lot of things in life...who sometimes get shot by the police, the gets denied a job, who gets served first in a restaurant, which school district gets computers....

Your statement is disrespectful and ignorant at best.
Maybe since Plush lives in Chicago it played a part in his statement ?
Old 18th April 2018
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
Race plays a part in a lot of things in life...who sometimes get shot by the police, the gets denied a job, who gets served first in a restaurant, which school district gets computers....

Your statement is disrespectful and ignorant at best.
What?! There was nothing said that was either disrespectful or ignorant.
Old 18th April 2018
  #29
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whippoorwill's Avatar
Middle-aged white men have a reputation for relegating the experiences of others (especially non-middle-aged white male experiences) as secondary, alongside denigrating music that doesn't fit into strict categories of "how things CAN be good", so (a few posters here excluded) keep up the good work boys.

P.S. Western Art Music theory systems have a poor ability to express rhythm, tonal qualities and microtonal inflections, paired with a history of pushing square pegs into round holes as far as deciding what should be notated. I once wrote a piece of music based on this style: YouTube and the rhythmic structures were deemed unplayable by my composition teacher until I showed him some of that style, he changed my grade from a 60% to 93%. I bet if you tried to accurately (not half-assed boom-tish boom-tish) portray the micro-timing, style and kaleidoscopic sample patch-work that makes up a lot of Kendrick's music it would start looking closer to Ferneyhough than John Williams.
Old 18th April 2018
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnorman View Post
Copland, Corigliano, John Adams, Kendrick Lamar.
I truly have no words...
still much better than what happend at the echo award in germany last week...
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