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Kendrick Lamar wins the Pulitzer for Music Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 21st April 2018
  #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IM WHO YOU THINK View Post
Why would anyone care to argue vs your opinion?
Not just my opinion dude; anyone with any real knowledge of the true talents in hip hop know who the catalyst was-even if you forgot.
Old 21st April 2018
  #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martel80 View Post
It is a fact, you are right.

correct me if I'm wrong but I think this prize is given yearly and Nasir Jones havent released an album in the last 3 years!??
C'mon man, Nas's lyrics and story-telling are timeless. Had he released an album the same day Lamar did, he never would have had a chance regardless. Why is that? This has nothing to do with talent and cultural awareness, because if it did, Nas would have had two Pulitzer's by now.
Even when he briefly crossed over, he still owned everyone lyrically.

Think about it.
Old 21st April 2018
  #213
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IM WHO YOU THINK's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRSC View Post
Not just my opinion dude; anyone with any real knowledge of the true talents in hip hop know who the catalyst was-even if you forgot.
So if my opinion is different, can mine be a fact too?
Old 21st April 2018
  #214
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12tone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRSC View Post
C'mon man, Nas's lyrics and story-telling are timeless. Had he released an album the same day Lamar did, he never would have had a chance regardless. Why is that? This has nothing to do with talent and cultural awareness, because if it did, Nas would have had two Pulitzer's by now.
Even when he briefly crossed over, he still owned everyone lyrically.

Think about it.
First, a lot of what you're saying is speculation, and of personal subjectivity.

Whether Nas or Kendrick got it, in either case it would have to do talent and cultural awareness, because even if you think Nas is more talented, I think most would agree it would be absurd to say Kendrick isn't.

It just so happened Damn happened to fall into consideration because it was very topical and relevant to everything going on right now, in these times. It's no fault of Lamar's that it did - he didn't go about creating it to try to win a Pulitzer, he was just doing his thing.

I didn't criticize that Ornette Coleman won a Pulitzer for Sound Grammar; I suspect it was as much a lifetime achievement award as many of these sorts of awards go, but it pales in comparison to so many of his other works, such as Shape of Jazz to Come, arguably one the the greatest and most important albums of the 2nd half of the 20th century - Sound Grammar not even remotely close.

Within your argument, I see an analogy of sorts with UFC 1, the landmark MMA event, ostensibly a showcase for Gracie Jiu Jitsu (as it was sponsored by them), where Royce Gracie was the inaugural winner. At the time, there was no question the best fighter in their stable was Rickson Gracie, but they decided the smaller, less imposing looking Royce would make much more of a statement...I kinda felt bad for Rickson, as he was clearly more deserving of the accolade as the baddest man on the planet.

Nevertheless, it got BJJ of the ground in a big way, and helped legitimize it. Whether what anyone thinks of Kendrick, one thing is for certain; this is a historical moment for rap and hip-hop - in the eyes of the world, it has become fully legitimized, something up to that moment might have been unimaginable to the rest of the world except for, or perhaps even to, to its die hard fans.
Old 22nd April 2018
  #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
First, a lot of what you're saying is speculation, and of personal subjectivity.

Whether Nas or Kendrick got it, in either case it would have to do talent and cultural awareness, because even if you think Nas is more talented, I think most would agree it would be absurd to say Kendrick isn't.

It just so happened Damn happened to fall into consideration because it was very topical and relevant to everything going on right now, in these times. It's no fault of Lamar's that it did - he didn't go about creating it to try to win a Pulitzer, he was just doing his thing.

I didn't criticize that Ornette Coleman won a Pulitzer for Sound Grammar; I suspect it was as much a lifetime achievement award as many of these sorts of awards go, but it pales in comparison to so many of his other works, such as Shape of Jazz to Come, arguably one the the greatest and most important albums of the 2nd half of the 20th century - Sound Grammar not even remotely close.

Within your argument, I see an analogy of sorts with UFC 1, the landmark MMA event, ostensibly a showcase for Gracie Jiu Jitsu (as it was sponsored by them), where Royce Gracie was the inaugural winner. At the time, there was no question the best fighter in their stable was Rickson Gracie, but they decided the smaller, less imposing looking Royce would make much more of a statement...I kinda felt bad for Rickson, as he was clearly more deserving of the accolade as the baddest man on the planet.

Nevertheless, it got BJJ of the ground in a big way, and helped legitimize it. Whether what anyone thinks of Kendrick, one thing is for certain; this is a historical moment for rap and hip-hop - in the eyes of the world, it has become fully legitimized, something up to that moment might have been unimaginable to the rest of the world except for, or perhaps even to, to its die hard fans.

And Nas's music and lyrics weren't relevant for their time? The sad part is a Pulitzer for hip hop wasn't even a consideration when the best (Nas) was bringing it to the masses.
We're talking about music dude, not BJJ
Hip-hop was legitimized when Lamar was still in diapers.
It took this long for it's impact to be recognized by members of the board and they chose the latest, definitely not the greatest.
Nas is an icon, and a living a legend, who inspired (and continues to inspire) everyone to try and be great- including Lamar.
Only fools don't recognize who Lamar jacked his style from.

Last edited by TRSC; 22nd April 2018 at 01:10 PM.. Reason: Because the man is an icon-it had to be mentioned
Old 22nd April 2018
  #216
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12tone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRSC View Post
And Nas's music and lyrics weren't relevant for their time? The sad part is a Pulitzer for hip hop wasn't even a consideration when the best (Nas) was bringing it to the masses.
We're talking about music dude, not BJJ
a·nal·o·gy
əˈnaləjē
noun

a comparison between two things, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification.
"an analogy between the workings of nature and those of human societies"

a correspondence or partial similarity.
"the syndrome is called deep dysgraphia because of its analogy to deep dyslexia"

a thing that is comparable to something else in significant respects.
"works of art were seen as an analogy for works of nature"
Old 22nd April 2018
  #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRSC View Post
And Nas's music and lyrics weren't relevant for their time? The sad part is a Pulitzer for hip hop wasn't even a consideration when the best (Nas) was bringing it to the masses.
We're talking about music dude, not BJJ
Hip-hop was legitimized when Lamar was still in diapers.
It took this long for it's impact to be recognized by members of the board and they chose the latest, definitely not the greatest.
Nas is a legend, who inspired (and continues to inspire) everyone to try and be great- including Lamar.
Only fools don't recognize who Lamar jacked his style from.
Actually, we have been discussing Kendrick Lamar being awarded a Pulitzer prize, it's not a general music conversation per say, nor is it any affirmation or disqualifying thread intentionally leaving out anyone who may have influenced Lamar.
You are forcibly inserting an [off topic] opinion you have and that others may share but just to be clear, no fools in this thread. Accusing Lamar of jacking anything from anyone or that by being awarded a Pulitzer he is somehow jacking someone else's earned credit or that his awarded body of work somehow negates the history of music and all that influenced his personal ascension as an artist is just bizarre.
It's just not like that at all.
As for hip hop being legitimised, just have a read through some of the posts in this thread and you will find accomplished learned academics of music who are openly debating it... still, in 2018!.
Regardless of whether or not you feel Lamar's win has shaded the profundity of any other artist before him or who has influenced him, his win goes a long way to legitimising the genre outside and beyond the cultural and societal acceptance it has already justly earned.
It actually puts the debate to bed once and for all.

It's a good thing, not just for Pulitzer and Lamar but also for humanity.

Last edited by GeneHall; 22nd April 2018 at 03:42 AM.. Reason: typo's
Old 22nd April 2018
  #218
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IM WHO YOU THINK's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRSC View Post
And Nas's music and lyrics weren't relevant for their time? The sad part is a Pulitzer for hip hop wasn't even a consideration when the best (Nas) was bringing it to the masses.
We're talking about music dude, not BJJ
Hip-hop was legitimized when Lamar was still in diapers.
It took this long for it's impact to be recognized by members of the board and they chose the latest, definitely not the greatest.
Nas is a legend, who inspired (and continues to inspire) everyone to try and be great- including Lamar.
Only fools don't recognize who Lamar jacked his style from.
I'm offering you today for free. All I ask is that you let my opinion be the truth tomorrow.

Deal?

Last edited by IM WHO YOU THINK; 22nd April 2018 at 02:10 PM..
Old 22nd April 2018
  #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
Real education?

Real effort, hours of study, hours of practice, hours of experience, belive it or not can come by many means, not just what's perceived as 'real' education. There are many roads, as they say.

FYI, I don't have anything against 'real' education, whatever that may be...ultimately, to paraphrase what you succinctly stated earlier - it's just put up or shut up.

Nothing is being devalued, other than your preconceived notions...
Again, real education is something that can only be acquired through significant effort over a long period of time. Reading, study, travel, languages, history, music, math, sciences, philosophy etc etc etc.

Its not something that can be achieved quickly or acquired by osmosis or by having a "different" view of the world.
Old 22nd April 2018
  #220
I think I understand what trsc is trying to say and I must say that I agree with his broad idea.

I also agree with GeneHall when he says that the good part is that it has finally been recognized.

The two things I dont agree with , or should I say, the ideas that gave me pause on those 2 ''other ideas'' that you both shared is that you, for example, trsc, point out Nas as a creator of a genre while Nasir Jones simply mastered that part of that art which is painting a real life canvas out of words in a rythmic pattern. Others have done that before but never as well has Nasir. Lets take a moment to remember Slick rick for example.
As for GeneHall, what I dont agree with your latest statement is that you seem to fail to hear that Lamar writing style is actually a very clear results of Nasir Jones work....just a totally normal follow up to his work as he his the reference.I am not saying this as a personnal opinion out of no where. If you're unsure about my statement, make some google research on whos your favorite rapper rapper. Another thing that make me cringe a lot is you stating people as ''accomplished learned academics of music''. I hope you are not talking about the 2 super famous clowns that came and asked why this is considered music as there is no notes on rap vocals and clearly still fail to see that not all music needs to be attached to the castafiore. Good thing is that it really made understood how much of a great decision I made when I decided to drop art school twice because they were tripping on the flowers on the rug and still couldnt have a single clue and couldnt explain that music is felt and not only an endless math test on technicality.
I think there's something to be learned from those ''accomplished'' statements. It just might not be what they intended to point out tho'.
Old 22nd April 2018
  #221
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12tone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Spearritt View Post
Again, real education is something that can only be acquired through significant effort over a long period of time. Reading, study, travel, languages, history, music, math, sciences, philosophy etc etc etc.

Its not something that can be achieved quickly or acquired by osmosis or by having a "different" view of the world.
If you put in those terms, I think real education is a life long pursuit of knowledge and skills. Every day is an opportunity to learn something new and better yourself.

But the tendency (generally speaking about societal education system contructs), is to view education as a finite goal; that is, you get an 'education', a 'degree', get a job, and you're good. Got that education thing covered...
Old 22nd April 2018
  #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IM WHO YOU THINK View Post
I'm offering you today for free. All I ask is that you let my opinion be the truth tomorrow.

Deal?

Dude, I do not care about your opinion. I'm stating facts; without the artist Nas there would be no 'Kendrick Lamar'. The fact that it took this long for rap/hip hop to 'recognized' as a relevant form of music is an atrocity, but really not a surprise considering there are only 3 or 4 African Americans on the board (and most-likely all board members are liberal)...did you even know that? Great, you just learned something. Lamar is obviously (and if you can't hear it, you're deaf and\or dumb) influenced very heavily by Nas. Rappers have been making culturally aware songs since the late 70's. Wake up man, seriously.

Last edited by TRSC; 22nd April 2018 at 02:01 PM.. Reason: Pulitzer has been marred in controversy for years.
Old 22nd April 2018
  #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRSC View Post
Dude, I do not care about your opinion.
that sounds like an honest post
Old 22nd April 2018
  #224
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an observation about rap and hip-hop in general today: I consider the voice (and what it's saying) to be the only aspect of merit.

The typical backing tracks or mashups of loops, synth pads, percussion and backing vocals are just forgettable supermarket or dentist waiting room fodder...amongst the most arid, disposable and vestigial 'music' ever recorded. I guess it's just the backdrop for the Main Voice after all ?

In that case I'd far rather hear it performed at a poetry slam...unaccompanied. Come to think of it, that's how i'd rather hear it 'on record' too....but I guess "the masses" wouldn't buy that (or it) ?
Old 22nd April 2018
  #225
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Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
The typical backing tracks or mashups of loops, synth pads, percussion and backing vocals are just forgettable supermarket or dentist waiting room fodder...amongst the most arid, disposable and vestigial 'music' ever recorded. I guess it's just the backdrop for the Main Voice after all ?
This is where you’re 1. overlooking a ridiculous amount of very fine tuned aesthetic by judging something by a set of aesthetic parameters that are of a different value system and 2. Judging the whole by the worst of it. Two common logical errors.

The beat tends to be the main hook of the song, that’s what gets everyone’s attention, gets them locked in and willing to go with the song for 4 minutes, which then sets up the vocalists to do what they do.

To prove 1, make a hip hop beat and put it up for critique. After doing a handful you’ll realize you’re making 1000 mistakes in what you’re doing, and that what you’re doing probably doesn’t even qualify as a hip hop beat by hip hop standards you’re so far off from understanding its value system and aesthetic. And your appreciation and ability to recognize what’s “good” will increase further and further with each attempt and failure. 6 years later you’ll finally have your first legit hip hop beat by hip hop standards, if you grind away, push yourself, and work hard at it the whole time.
Old 22nd April 2018
  #226
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
an observation about rap and hip-hop in general today:

The typical backing tracks or mashups of loops, synth pads, percussion and backing vocals are just forgettable supermarket or dentist waiting room fodder...amongst the most arid, disposable and vestigial 'music' ever recorded.
Thats a very harsch way of describing the most catchy bars of music from James Brown,Isaac Hayes, Micheal Jackson' Kool and the Gang, Lyn collins, Roy Ayers, Aretha Franklyn, Bob James, Funkadelic, Groover Washington, Fela Kuti, The Delhonics, David Axelrod, chuck Jackson, Al Green, curtis Mayfield, Minnie Riperton, Earth Wind and Fire.....just to name a few.

I've heard different ways of describing their music ,,,but ''forgettable supermarket or dentist waiting room fodder...amongst the most arid, disposable and vestigial 'music' ever recorded.'' Is absolutely a first one ever for those music genius.


I hope you were talking about pop music and you got confused for a minute.

Old 22nd April 2018
  #227
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jimjazzdad's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martel80 View Post
Thats a very harsch way of describing the most catchy bars of music from James Brown,Isaac Hayes, Micheal Jackson' Kool and the Gang, Lyn collins, Roy Ayers, Aretha Franklyn, Bob James, Funkadelic, Groover Washington, Fela Kuti, The Delhonics, David Axelrod, chuck Jackson, Al Green, curtis Mayfield, Minnie Riperton, Earth Wind and Fire.....just to name a few.
Most if not all of these acts had a human drummer keeping time, in many cases without a click track. And the 'drum' tracks found on contemporary rap recordings? That was what I got from studer58's comment. But I am not an authority on these things.
Old 22nd April 2018
  #228
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But when this is done it is appropriating the art of others and in a format that tends to glorify violence and is marketed to the masses who know little of violence.

EDIT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martel80 View Post
Thats a very harsch way of describing the most catchy bars of music from James Brown,Isaac Hayes, Micheal Jackson' Kool and the Gang, Lyn collins, Roy Ayers, Aretha Franklyn, Bob James, Funkadelic, Groover Washington, Fela Kuti, The Delhonics, David Axelrod, chuck Jackson, Al Green, curtis Mayfield, Minnie Riperton, Earth Wind and Fire.....just to name a few.

I've heard different ways of describing their music ,,,but ''forgettable supermarket or dentist waiting room fodder...amongst the most arid, disposable and vestigial 'music' ever recorded.'' Is absolutely a first one ever for those music genius.


I hope you were talking about pop music and you got confused for a minute.


Last edited by Swing; 22nd April 2018 at 06:03 PM.. Reason: intervening post broke context
Old 22nd April 2018
  #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimjazzdad View Post
Most if not all of these acts had a human drummer keeping time, in many cases without a click track. And the 'drum' tracks found on contemporary rap recordings? That was what I got from studer58's comment. But I am not an authority on these things.
Yeah you chop up the breaks into individual hits or small sequences, load them into a sampler, and then rearrange them and mess around with them creatively as you please. The “collage art” approach tends to mostly employ re-arranged micro-slices of audio, not huge chunks of audio.

There’s an art/skill to this that’s been developing since the 90s.

This is honestly very basic stuff, and a part of what i was saying about not understanding some of the most basics of the hip hop aesthetic and values system. Which is fine! Gotta learn somewhere. I just hate in that other guys post (not yours!!) where the purpose isn’t to learn, it’s to cut.

It’s like going to a guitar forum and saying “the sound of guitar sucks, everything you do is terrible” thus missing the entire point of everything involved with guitar and completely skipping over a massive and complex and diverse set of guitar aesthetics.
Old 22nd April 2018
  #230
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimjazzdad View Post
Most if not all of these acts had a human drummer keeping time, in many cases without a click track. And the 'drum' tracks found on contemporary rap recordings? That was what I got from studer58's comment. But I am not an authority on these things.
Thats what you just underline, you are right. Assumption because what you heard from that culture is what was decided by big record label to be the representing act in the main media.

The drum track found on contemporary recording sometime are flawlessly on time and for the most recognized as icon are NOT exactly on beat.

check out the art of J Dilla for example. something like Humanizing his mpc.....

You could also check out Amir thompson better know as Questlove.
Old 22nd April 2018
  #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
If you put in those terms, I think real education is a life long pursuit of knowledge and skills. Every day is an opportunity to learn something new and better yourself.

But the tendency (generally speaking about societal education system contructs), is to view education as a finite goal; that is, you get an 'education', a 'degree', get a job, and you're good. Got that education thing covered...
I like the sound basis of your philosophy.

What I question is why you use it to construct a sheltering cocoon around an invulnerable mass culture music.

We can look at it as an artform which heroically and poetically tells stories of oppressed persons (living in the USA), but we can also see it as a relatively new example of not necessarily exceptional US culture dominating the world (as in Pulitzer Prize, Juilliard, McDonalds, Trump etc.), and formula entertainment arena spectacle (as in pro wrestling, heavy metal, etc.) executed by talented and able people.

It's not exactly a delicate or oppressed art form needing the protection of a profound philosophy.
Old 22nd April 2018
  #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martel80 View Post
Thats a very harsch way of describing the most catchy bars of music from James Brown,Isaac Hayes, Micheal Jackson' Kool and the Gang, Lyn collins, Roy Ayers, Aretha Franklyn, Bob James, Funkadelic, Groover Washington, Fela Kuti, The Delhonics, David Axelrod, chuck Jackson, Al Green, curtis Mayfield, Minnie Riperton, Earth Wind and Fire.....just to name a few.
You didn't read my opening line...I'm talking about the synthesized, packaged and processed backing tracks assembled for the rap and hip-hop artists of the last 10 years, today and very likely tomorrow, all done AFTER the above-listed had finished making their ground-breaking, innovative and iconic music....decades after ! (BTW you left out Sly and The Family Stone...)

I'd be happy if Mr Lamar used his new found wealth and influence to underwrite the making of a representative and accurate movie version of Ralph Ellison's "Invisible Man" Now there's something I want to see before I die. KL can even record the soundtrack, as I'm sure he'd like to do
Old 22nd April 2018
  #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
In that case I'd far rather hear it performed at a poetry slam...unaccompanied. Come to think of it, that's how i'd rather hear it 'on record' too....but I guess "the masses" wouldn't buy that (or it) ?
Wow, Picasso should use only black paint, Chaucer should only write about himself and all his stories should be based in Oxford, and reggae shouldn't have drums or bass.

Maybe there should be a special body that decides these things...?
Old 22nd April 2018
  #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRSC View Post
I'm stating facts; without the artist Nas there would be no 'Kendrick Lamar'.
I googled this "fact" but was unable to find any conclusive argument or formula, par chance do you have a link I (and others) could use to verify this fact?
Old 22nd April 2018
  #235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
I googled this "fact" but was unable to find any conclusive argument or formula, par chance do you have a link I (and others) could use to verify this fact?
The Best Rappers of All Time Ranked by Hip-Hop Fans

Best Rappers List | Greatest of All Time | Billboard

Top 10 best rappers of all time? | Genius

Best Rappers of All Time - Top Ten List - TheTopTens(R)

And my favorite:

LMGTFY
Old 22nd April 2018
  #236
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
You didn't read my opening line...I'm talking about the synthesized, packaged and processed backing tracks assembled for the rap and hip-hop artists of the last 10 years, today and very likely tomorrow, all done AFTER the above-listed had finished making their ground-breaking, innovative and iconic music....decades after ! (BTW you left out Sly and The Family Stone...)

I'd be happy if Mr Lamar used his new found wealth and influence to underwrite the making of a representative and accurate movie version of Ralph Ellison's "Invisible Man" Now there's something I want to see before I die. KL can even record the soundtrack, as I'm sure he'd like to do
See, you never mention synthesizer rap on the other post.

You're making a broad statement then you say those were made decades after.

Rap music is not only what you hear on your mainstream radio.

This mainstream radio station broadcast Pop because thats what they are all about....monetizing on pop culture.

Rap is NOT pop culture and the artist I've mentionned are all artist that have been sampled by artist that represent the root of Rap culture.....the cornerstone.

Your statement sounded like someone pointing out Blink 182 as what Punk as to offer or Limp bizkit as what rock sound like.
Old 22nd April 2018
  #237
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My post was tongue in cheek, but based on all these lists his statement should have been:

without Biggie Smalls and Tupac "there would be no 'Kendrick Lamar'."

Or:

Without Eminem, "there would be no 'Kendrick Lamar'."

Thing is there are really no wrong answers with opinion based 'facts'...as long as you have an opinion you're right.
Old 22nd April 2018
  #238
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
My post was tongue in cheek, but based on all these lists his statement should have been:

without Biggie Smalls and Tupac "there would be no 'Kendrick Lamar'."

Or:

Without Eminem, "there would be no 'Kendrick Lamar'."

Thing is there are really no wrong answers with opinion based 'facts'...as long as you have an opinion you're right.
And I totally agree with you.

I dont know if you were still ''tongue in cheek'' but Tupac and Biggie never initiate the story telling way Kendrick rap. They are clearly part of the equation but if you listen carefully, you know where its coming from.

I think and hope thats what you tried to say.

Eminem is from another species and its still too early ( not because he havent proven his worth, in fact its the total opposite ) to point him out as a cornerstone.
He havent created ( by his way of expressing his art ) a standard in rap.

I am not a Eminem fan per say but he his to me, alone in his corner. A very lonely corner but yet, arguably, the most prolific rapper there ever was.

Hopefully not ever will be. No one can even think of coming close to eminem ( and I'm talking about still living rapper ) when it come to ANY aspect of what the RAP art is.

I'm just very sorry for him that most of his beats are disgusting, or should I say, not in my chords. I, to, am completely turned off by all those cheap sounding instruments in the background of rap.
Old 22nd April 2018
  #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aracu View Post
I like the sound basis of your philosophy.

What I question is why you use it to construct a sheltering cocoon around an invulnerable mass culture music.

We can look at it as an artform which heroically and poetically tells stories of oppressed persons (living in the USA), but we can also see it as a relatively new example of not necessarily exceptional US culture dominating the world (as in Pulitzer Prize, Juilliard, McDonalds, Trump etc.), and formula entertainment arena spectacle (as in pro wrestling, heavy metal, etc.) executed by talented and able people.

It's not exactly a delicate or oppressed art form needing the protection of a profound philosophy.


Really, I'm not trying to "construct a sheltering cocoon" around anything. I was merely responding to a tangent within the vicissitude of the thread, which was neither here nor there regarding the topic at hand.

As to your other points; the only qualifier that need be applied should be whether something is exceptional or not, regardless of genre, or its origination or provenance. Not to paraphrase Duke Ellington, if it's good, it's good, whether it comes from the US, Tuva, Bulgaria or with apologies to Herman Cain, Ubeki-beki-beki-beki-stan-stan....

suffice it to say, a lot of dreck emanating from the US, no question, including a lot of rap and hip-hop, trap, etc. Who in their right mind would say everything in those genres is gold? Also, why the F is the rest of the world so fixated on American media? We're not exactly exporting Coltrane and Duke Ellington of late. More like KUWTK...

...but, Kendrick - you gotta hand it to him, he's hit at many levels: success at commercial/popular circles, socio-political relevance, positive criticicism/analysis from both the established and the vernacular. It's a rare nexus that few have. I don't know of a recent equal.

Last edited by 12tone; 22nd April 2018 at 10:03 PM.. Reason: grammar
Old 22nd April 2018
  #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
Whether what anyone thinks of Kendrick, one thing is for certain; this is a historical moment for rap and hip-hop - in the eyes of the world, it has become fully legitimized, something up to that moment might have been unimaginable to the rest of the world except for, or perhaps even to, to its die hard fans.
Are you sure about this? The endorsement of a committee, probably itself wondering how long it can remain relevant, is what was required? Maybe the committee is just trying to save its own skin.

I don't think anyone cares (or even knows!) about this endorsement, (apart from those in this thread ), do they?
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