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Kendrick Lamar wins the Pulitzer for Music Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 18th April 2018
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swing View Post
Because it seems to me that most rap and hip hop is violent. But the consumers of the genre seem to buy into this and my experience is the product does not reflect a balance of the reality.
You know any of this to be fact are you just speculating? There are thousands os rappers and millions of rap fans all across the country, you know their reality...?

Plus, for every rap song that deals with violence you can list, I can list two that does not...your claim is exaggerated and perpetrates the stereotype, but in reality is not factual.
Old 18th April 2018
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
You know any of this to be fact are you just speculating? There are thousands os rappers and millions of rap fans all across the country, you know their reality...?

Plus, for every rap song that deals with violence you can list, I can list two that does not...your claim is exaggerated and perpetrates the stereotype, but in reality is not factual.
I am speculating, but know first hand of some experiences that are glorified by rap and hip hop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swing View Post

. . .
Most seem to be worn vehicles appropriating violence; seemingly to make money, very much like many violent video games. I could be wrong about the usual thematic content of most rap and hip hop pieces, and would welcome to be corrected.

None of this is to say Lamar is not worthy of a Pulitzer . . .
Like I said, I would welcome to be corrected.
Old 18th April 2018
  #63
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rhizomeman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
'daring formal innovations"
Can anyone provide some example of this? And, again is that because of Kendrick or the producer who actually created the music.

Just wanting to clarify - I have no idea.
Old 18th April 2018
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhizomeman View Post
Can anyone provide some example of this? And, again is that because of Kendrick or the producer who actually created the music.

Just wanting to clarify - I have no idea.
This was me quoting that article, not my words, but I can answer this question.

A lot of hip hop gets clever with the form itself. . . not sticking to ABABCB and the other common standards.

This example isn't Kendrick, but its my favorite track getting spun regularly on The Heat right now (the Siruis mainstream hip hop station. . . I choose a Sirius station and will do my best to stick with it a month at a time as I drive around. . . just for simple exposure to what's going on. I did a country music month late last year for example.)

YouTube

Form wise. . . there's no real verse or chorus to the song. There's no ABABCB type diagramming of the form of the song.

There's the "its a vibe" hook. . with each of the four performers taking turns playing around with it in their own way, with a rap 3/4 the way through. Its a very simple song, but is innovative and fresh with its approach to form. (and catches a good feel good vibe I personally can jam out to )
Old 18th April 2018
  #65
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It's hard to speak objectively about music and image embraced by mass culture. I feel that the repetitous vibe and ghetto image of rap and hip hop was invented a long time ago in the Miles Davis masterpiece "On the Corner" when it was not fashionable, and that the violence, suffering, original use of language and simplicity of rap and hip hop cannot stand up to the writing of Amos Tutuola.
Old 18th April 2018
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aracu View Post
It's hard to speak objectively about music and image embraced by mass culture. I feel that the repetitous vibe and ghetto image of rap and hip hop was invented a long time ago in the Miles Davis masterpiece "On the Corner" when it was not fashionable, and that the violence, suffering, original use of language and simplicity of rap and hip hop cannot stand up to the writing of Amos Tutuola.
You are speaking of serious art. My opinion is some of Lamar's work is serious. But Miles had a lifetime and Lamar still has a long road ahead. I've only listened once to Lamar's Blood because he hit the mark spot on and it is difficult for me to listen again to the truth of that. But the other pieces I heard on Damn could be run through an infinite loop.

How many of his millions of fans have real experience with what is glorified in rap and hip hop? My guess is there are not many because if there were then there would not be so many sales: the truth is hard to experience, yet easy to glorify.
Old 18th April 2018
  #67
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loji's Avatar
not related to DAMN . .

But to his first big commercial success "Good Kid, m.A.A.d city"

"GKMC is a concept album. Kendrick, for the albums majority, is using each song as a running narrative to detail 17 year old Kendrick’s experiences that helped shape who he is today.
It starts with an introduction to Sherane, a chick that Kendrick meets, who has cousins in a gang that rivals the gang that many of Kendrick’s family is involved with. Knowing this, he decides to pursue her anyway, aware of the danger. After he finds she is interested as well, he makes plans to meet her later that night, borrowing his Mom’s van to do so. As he hops out of the van, two guys in black hoodies appear out of the shadows behind Sherane, presumably her cousins.
The 1st track ends with the realization that Kendrick has been set-up. The story then rewinds to show us the events that took place after first meeting Sherane, before he went to meet her again. When he first leaves with the van, he picks up some of his friends for a “quick” joyride. Kendrick uses this as a vehicle to describe his difficulty staying true to his moral beliefs. He expresses dismay when he finds himself acting braggadocious, freestyling ( Backseat freestyle— so I could **** the world for 72 hours) in the van and smoking weed, and feels the need to act more like his friends. He allows himself to be coerced into drugs, punking rival gangmembers, and even takes place in a smash and grab, all the while, knowing this is not really him.
He then loses himself in thought about what a life of riches would really be like, and yearns for it in Money Trees. (which Obama said was his favorite track that year) We are then brought into Kendrick’s view of life in Compton. He is a generally good kid, however, because of his skin color, dress, and family with gang affiliations, he is constantly harassed by authorities and rival gangs.
The story then comes back to the set-up, where after Kendrick drops his friends off, is assaulted by Sherane’s cousins. when Kendrick’s homies find out what happened, the plot revenge. They decide to drive around town, searching until the two assailants are found. Their plan is to simply fire a few warning shots from a distance, just to scare them. However, the assailants fire back, killing one of Kendrick’s pals. Heartbroken and seething with rage, Kendrick and crew come to a crossroads and while back at one of their cribs, preparing another retaliation, a life-changing decision must be made. The Matriarch of his friends family catches a glimpse of a pistol, and makes a desperate last ditch effort to try and save these young boys from making a terrible mistake, saying that today’s generation is “Dying of thirst” meaning they are spiritually dehydrated, and only the Holy Word can help cleanse them, and nourish them. Kendrick and his crew, hurt, confused and utterly scared, accept her help.
This begins the magnum opus of the album “Sing About Me, I’m Dying of Thirst” in which a reflective kendrick details struggles of those he’s loved and lost in Compton, again to illustrate how they shaped who he’d become. The last two songs, Real, and Compton don’t advance the narrative at all, but do help to finalize a more complete vision of Kendrick as an artist. Other songs that don’t advance the narrative are : Bitch Don’t kill My Vibe and Poetic Justice. However all songs on the standard edition have a spoken word narrative to help fill the gaps between tracks. So in short, many of the songs you’ve heard are harder to interpret when not in the context of the story."


.. . which is knowledge I didn't personally have until I started looking. Listening to some of his past work, it begins to make more sense why he would be awarded this way... To Pimp A Butterfly, Section.80, I might personally prefer to DAMN . . but I'm understanding more of why he was noticed.
Old 18th April 2018
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swing View Post
You are speaking of serious art.
check out Amos Tutuola "The Palm Wine Drinkard"
Old 18th April 2018
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aracu View Post
It's hard to speak objectively about music and image embraced by mass culture. I feel that the repetitous vibe and ghetto image of rap and hip hop was invented a long time ago in the Miles Davis masterpiece "On the Corner" when it was not fashionable
No, hardly. Miles wasn't channeling those things, On the Corner was coalescing his post Bitches Brew Sly Stone/James Brown/Jimi Hendrix sensibilities with a more pronounced funk bent as opposed to the previous explorations of rock with Jack Johnson, the Brazilian bent of Live Evil, and along with Teo Macero imbuing more extensive sound/tape manipulation and production, somewhat influenced by Karlheinze Stockhausen.

What you're talking about was more the domain at that time of artists such as Curtis Mayfield, Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder, Gil Scott Heron and George Clinton.
Old 18th April 2018
  #70
Gear Nut
 

Dylan mentioned a couple times here. Didn't he invent rap?

Subterranean Homesick Blues (1965):

Johnny's in the basement
Mixing up the medicine
I'm on the pavement
Thinking about the government
The man in the trench coat
Badge out, laid off
Says he's got a bad cough
Wants to get it paid off
Look out kid
It's somethin' you did
God knows when
But you're doing it again
You better duck down the alley way
Lookin' for a new friend
A man in the coonskin cap, by the pig pen
Wants eleven dollar bills, you only got ten
Old 18th April 2018
  #71
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12tone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dogmusic View Post
Dylan mentioned a couple times here. Didn't he invent rap?

Subterranean Homesick Blues (1965):

Johnny's in the basement
Mixing up the medicine
I'm on the pavement
Thinking about the government
The man in the trench coat
Badge out, laid off
Says he's got a bad cough
Wants to get it paid off
Look out kid
It's somethin' you did
God knows when
But you're doing it again
You better duck down the alley way
Lookin' for a new friend
A man in the coonskin cap, by the pig pen
Wants eleven dollar bills, you only got ten
No, that would be Charles Mingus, Fables of Faubus, 1957:

Quote:
Oh, Lord, don't let 'em shoot us
Oh, Lord, don't let 'em stab us
Oh, Lord, no more swastikas
Oh, Lord, don't let 'em tar and feather us!

[Chorus]
Oh, Lord, no more Ku Klux Klan
Name me someone who's ridiculous, Dannie
Governor Faubus!
Why is he so sick and ridiculous?
He won't permit integrated schools
Then he's a fool!

Boo! N*zi Fascist supremists!
Boo! Ku Klux Klan (With your Jim Crow plan)

[Chorus]
Name me a handful that's ridiculous, Dannie Richmond
Bilbo, Thomas, Faubus, Russel, Rockefeller, Byrd, Eisenhower
Why are they so sick and ridiculous?
Two, four, six, eight:
They brainwash and teach you hate

H-E-L-L-O, Hello

Boo! N*zi Fascist supremists!
Boo! Ku Klux Klan (With your Jim Crow plan)


[Chorus]
Name me a handful that's ridiculous, Dannie Richmond
Bilbo, Thomas, Faubus, Russel, Rockefeller, Byrd, Eisenhower
Why are they so sick and ridiculous?
Two, four, six, eight:
They brainwash and teach you hate

Old 18th April 2018
  #72
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
No, hardly. Miles wasn't channeling those things, On the Corner was coalescing his post Bitches Brew Sly Stone/James Brown/Jimi Hendrix sensibilities with a more pronounced funk bent as opposed to the previous explorations of rock with Jack Johnson, the Brazilian bent of Live Evil, and along with Teo Macero imbuing more extensive sound/tape manipulation and production, somewhat influenced by Karlheinze Stockhausen.

What you're talking about was more the domain at that time of artists such as Curtis Mayfield, Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder, Gil Scott Heron and George Clinton.
I disagree. It had more to do with George Martin than Stockhausen.
Old 18th April 2018
  #73
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12tone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dogmusic View Post
I disagree. It had more to do with George Martin than Stockhausen.
Not according to Miles...

dude, do some research. Otay?

One shouldn't be averse to studying the music. Otherwise, misinformation will be propagated. As you're doing here.
Old 18th April 2018
  #74
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
No, that would be Charles Mingus, Fables of Faubus, 1957:
Nah, don't rhyme as good.
Old 18th April 2018
  #75
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12tone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dogmusic View Post
Nah, don't rhyme as good.
Rhyme schmime...

Mingus was way ahead of his time.

About Dylan, what's more germane in regards to this thread is his song about Rubin Hurricane Carter.

Quote:
[Verse 1]
Pistol shots ring out in the barroom night
Enter Patty Valentine from the upper hall
She sees the bartender in a pool of blood
Cries out, “My God, they killed them all!”
Here comes the story of the Hurricane
The man the authorities came to blame
For something that he never done
Put in a prison cell, but one time he could-a been
The champion of the world

[Verse 2]
Three bodies lying there does Patty see
And another man named Bello, moving around mysteriously
“I didn’t do it,” he says, and he throws up his hands
“I was only robbing the register, I hope you understand
I saw them leaving,” he says, and he stops
“One of us had better call up the cops”
And so Patty calls the cops
And they arrive on the scene with their red lights flashing
In the hot New Jersey night

[Verse 3]
Meanwhile, far away in another part of town
Rubin Carter and a couple of friends are driving around
Number one contender for the middleweight crown
Had no idea what kinda **** was about to go down
When a cop pulled him over to the side of the road
Just like the time before and the time before that
In Paterson that’s just the way things go
If you’re black you might as well not show up on the street
Unless you want to draw the heat


[Verse 4]
Alfred Bello had a partner and he had a rap for the cops
Him and Arthur Dexter Bradley were just out prowling around
He said, “I saw two men running out, they looked like middleweights
They jumped into a white car with out-of-state plates”
And Miss Patty Valentine just nodded her head
Cop said, “Wait a minute, boys, this one’s not dead”
So they took him to the infirmary
And though this man could hardly see
They told him that he could identify the guilty men

[Verse 5]
Four in the morning and they haul Rubin in
Take him to the hospital and they bring him upstairs
The wounded man looks up through his one dying eye
Says, “Why did you bring him in here for? He is not the guy!”
Yes, here’s the story of the Hurricane
The man the authorities came to blame
For something that he never done
Put in a prison cell, but one time he could-a been
The champion of the world

[Verse 6]
Four months later, the ghettos are in flame
Rubin’s in South America, fighting for his name
While Arthur Dexter Bradley’s still in the robbery game
And the cops are putting the screws to him, looking for somebody to blame
“Remember that murder that happened in a bar?”
“Remember you said you saw the getaway car?”
“You think you’d like to play ball with the law?”
“Think it might-a been that fighter that you saw running that night?”
“Don’t forget that you are white”


[Verse 7]
Arthur Dexter Bradley said, “I’m really not sure”
Cops said, “A poor boy like you could use a break
We got you for the motel job and we’re talking to your friend Bello
Now you don’t want to have to go back to jail, be a nice fellow
You’ll be doing society a favor
That sonofabitch is brave and getting braver
We want to put his ass in stir
We want to pin this triple murder on him
He ain’t no Gentleman Jim”

[Verse 8]
Rubin could take a man out with just one punch
But he never did like to talk about it all that much
It’s my work, he’d say, and I do it for pay
And when it’s over I’d just as soon go on my way
Up to some paradise
Where the trout streams flow and the air is nice
And ride a horse along a trail
But then they took him to the jailhouse
Where they try to turn a man into a mouse

[Verse 9]
All of Rubin’s cards were marked in advance
The trial was a pig-circus, he never had a chance
The judge made Rubin’s witnesses drunkards from the slums
To the white folks who watched he was a revolutionary bum
And to the black folks he was just a crazy nigga
No one doubted that he pulled the trigger
And though they could not produce the gun
The D.A. said he was the one who did the deed
And the all-white jury agreed


[Verse 10]
Rubin Carter was falsely tried
The crime was murder “one,” guess who testified?
Bello and Bradley and they both baldly lied
And the newspapers, they all went along for the ride
How can the life of such a man
Be in the palm of some fool’s hand?
To see him obviously framed
Couldn’t help but make me feel ashamed to live in a land
Where justice is a game

[Verse 11]
Now all the criminals in their coats and their ties
Are free to drink martinis and watch the sun rise
While Rubin sits like Buddha in a ten-foot cell
An innocent man in a living hell
That’s the story of the Hurricane
But it won’t be over till they clear his name
And give him back the time he’s done
Put in a prison cell, but one time he could-a been
The champion of the world

Old 18th April 2018
  #76
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
Not according to Miles...

dude, do some research. Otay?

One shouldn't be averse to studying the music. Otherwise, misinformation will be propagated. As you're doing here.
Not the tape manipulation. It was Stockhausen's conceptual development of process, intuition and the use of found elements that were adopted formally by Miles.

And that's a quote. From research. "Otay?"
Old 18th April 2018
  #77
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
Rhyme schmime...

Mingus was way ahead of his time.

About Dylan, what's more germane in regards to this thread is his song about Rubin Hurricane Carter.
Maybe germane, maybe not, but definitely not as good a song.
Old 18th April 2018
  #78
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12tone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dogmusic View Post
Not the tape manipulation. It was Stockhausen's conceptual development of process, intuition and the use of found elements that were adopted formally by Miles.

And that's a quote. From research. "Otay?"
Dude, On the Corner was profoundly influenced by Stockhausen, not George Martin.

Period...

I've researched this extensively. Don't make me go through my notes.

George Martin?!? GTFOH...
Old 18th April 2018
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
No, hardly. Miles wasn't channeling those things, On the Corner was coalescing his post Bitches Brew Sly Stone/James Brown/Jimi Hendrix sensibilities with a more pronounced funk bent as opposed to the previous explorations of rock with Jack Johnson, the Brazilian bent of Live Evil, and along with Teo Macero imbuing more extensive sound/tape manipulation and production, somewhat influenced by Karlheinze Stockhausen.

What you're talking about was more the domain at that time of artists such as Curtis Mayfield, Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder, Gil Scott Heron and George Clinton.
On the Corner album came with a cartoon caricature image of black pimps and hookers. Although I agree that the actual content is open to interpretation. Compared with at least some of the artists you mention it was more of a forerunner to hip hop in the creative use of riff repetition in one key within a trance-like microcosm. For me a problem with hip hop is that its too rigid of a listening experience in what it is allowed to do, although obviously there are millions of people who feel differently. If you compare it with On the Corner, it lacks structural, harmonic and rythmic interest, and dynamic contrast between loud and soft, with a reliance on what sounds to me like computer cut-and-paste beats. When I am around people (white or black) listening to hip hop it seems to give a feeling of comformist comfort to identify with something that millions of other people accept as what we are supposed to listen to and what is supposed to be cool.
Old 18th April 2018
  #80
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12tone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by aracu View Post
On the Corner album came with a cartoon caricature image of black pimps and hookers. Although I agree that the actual content is open to interpretation. Compared with at least some of the artists you mention it was more of a forerunner to hip hop in the creative use of riff repetition in one key within a trance-like microcosm. For me a problem with hip hop is that its too rigid of a listening experience in what it is allowed to do, although obviously there are millions of people who feel differently. If you compare it with On the Corner, it lacks structural, harmonic and rythmic interest, and dynamic contrast between loud and soft, with a reliance on what sounds to me like computer cut-and-paste beats. When I am around people (white or black) listening to hip hop it seems to give a feeling of comformist comfort to identify with something that millions of other people accept as what we are supposed to listen to and what is supposed to be cool.
There indeed would be a major incongruence with the album cover art, and the music within it, and how the subjects portrayed would necessarily engage/react to the content of the album.

In short, those depicted; the hookers, pimps, et al...would say "WTF?!? - what's this hippie ****!?!" to the music contained within OTC.

I love Miles, I used to carry around with me his discography in my hip pocket so that at every spare moment I would memorize it - the fanaticism I had. Not to digress, but suffice it to say, in regards to Miles' allegiance to the inner city cause - there was none, which was no fault of his - he ultimately disassociated such concerns, he was all about the music, nothing more, nothing less.

...as I said, there were artists acutely aware of societal issues, much like the aware hip hop artists such as Kendrick Lamar; those being the likes of Mayfield, Gaye, Stevie, GSH, P-Funk, others with a moral/ethical stance - those are the true substantive antecedents. Not Miles....
Old 18th April 2018
  #81
I'm a huge rap fan and I recon Kendrick is a great lyricist BUT......I have no words and I'm completely lost on the why and how come.....

That makes absolutely no sense to me.

I have at least 5 better work that have been achieved by other rappers that never won this award.

Again, I can tell why Kendrick is seen as a very good lyricist for his way of telling stories and making you feel like you were there.....but I'm very sorry but there's rap music that have been made that are way more touching and a lot more special for what rap as to offer.

Ah and fawk it, ill just name drop as this is too ridiculous.

Shawn carter, the story of OJ( I was litteraly speechless the 5 first time I heard it ) not to mention Deon masterful work
Brother Ali...just too many to even mention
John Fareed - we the people ( again...speechless) the cut make it even more heavy
Mathias Bavitz....again, I dont know where to start
Nasir Jones.... come on now, do I really need to say more ?

Kendrick Lamar !!???
Pfffff gimme a break.
Old 19th April 2018
  #82
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
Dude, On the Corner was profoundly influenced by Stockhausen, not George Martin.

Period...

I've researched this extensively. Don't make me go through my notes.

George Martin?!? GTFOH...
Influenced, yes, I've already established that in my previous post. But not specifically the tape manipulation (which IS germane to this forum) which was the contribution of Teo Macero.

Here are some more quotes:

It has been said that Teo Macero was to Miles Davis what George Martin is to the Beatles. - Journal of Music

Teo Macero, who passed away this week at the age of 82, was the George Martin of jazz - Rock turtleneck blogspot

In George Cole’s book ‘Miles Ahead’ Macero is quoted as saying that what he did was similar to the way that George Martin worked with the Beatles. - Victor Svorinich, Listen To This - MILES DAVIS & BITCHES BREW
Old 19th April 2018
  #83
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12tone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dogmusic View Post
Influenced, yes, I've already established that in my previous post. But not specifically the tape manipulation (which IS germane to this forum) which was the contribution of Teo Macero.

Here are some more quotes:

It has been said that Teo Macero was to Miles Davis what George Martin is to the Beatles. - Journal of Music

Teo Macero, who passed away this week at the age of 82, was the George Martin of jazz - Rock turtleneck blogspot

In George Cole’s book ‘Miles Ahead’ Macero is quoted as saying that what he did was similar to the way that George Martin worked with the Beatles. - Victor Svorinich, Listen To This - MILES DAVIS & BITCHES BREW
This much I know - what Miles thought of the Beatles would be similar to that espoused recently by Quincy Jones, a contemporary and somewhat romantic rival of his.

...but, it would be much more harsh, laden with a few choice expletives for good measure. In short, aside from extraneous producer comparisons, with aplologies to Gertrude Stein, regarding Miles and the Beatles, there's no there there.

WTF don't you get about that?
Old 19th April 2018
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swing View Post
How many of his millions of fans have real experience with what is glorified in rap and hip hop? My guess is there are not many because if there were then there would not be so many sales: the truth is hard to experience, yet easy to glorify.
Since when is this even relevant...? It's always worrying when someone suggest or imply that they alone know the truth.

How many people here have lived in a yellow submarine...
Old 19th April 2018
  #85
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Does Kendrick have a conga ?...this debate is getting old real fast...little new under the sun, the source had more sauce, 1970 : YouTube

At least Kendrick got televised...unlike the revolution
Old 19th April 2018
  #86
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jimjazzdad's Avatar
"This message has been deleted by psycho_monkey. Reason: Funny but not helpful - thread on final warning..."

This sort of moderation is not warranted. There are many opinions here, but no personal attacks by or against forum members. It sounds to me like a pretty civilized discussion about art (or what it is or isn't). My $0.02
Old 19th April 2018
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimjazzdad View Post
"This message has been deleted by psycho_monkey. Reason: Funny but not helpful - thread on final warning..."

This sort of moderation is not warranted. There are many opinions here, but no personal attacks by or against forum members. It sounds to me like a pretty civilized discussion about art (or what it is or isn't). My $0.02
I agree...never could understand the management of this place some times.
Old 19th April 2018
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 View Post
Does Kendrick have a conga ?...this debate is getting old real fast...little new under the sun, the source had more sauce, 1970 : YouTube

At least Kendrick got televised...unlike the revolution
The performance in the video is the source of what by the way?

Just because there's a guy talking over congas does not make it related to rap...
Old 19th April 2018
  #89
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
This much I know - what Miles thought of the Beatles would be similar to that espoused recently by Quincy Jones, a contemporary and somewhat romantic rival of his.

...but, it would be much more harsh, laden with a few choice expletives for good measure. In short, aside from extraneous producer comparisons, with aplologies to Gertrude Stein, regarding Miles and the Beatles, there's no there there.

WTF don't you get about that?
"extraneous producer comparisons"?

You wrote: "and along with Teo Macero imbuing more extensive sound/tape manipulation and production, somewhat influenced by Karlheinze Stockhausen."

I pointed out that Teo's contribution was more comparable to George Martin's.

I then went on to show proof that Teo thought so himself, as did some others.

Producers is what was being discussed. Sorry you missed the point.

Now I've had enough of your intellectual posturing and I'm outta here.
Old 19th April 2018
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
The performance in the video is the source of what by the way?

Just because there's a guy talking over congas does not make it related to rap...
The Last Poets (according to wiki):
'The Last Poets were one of the earliest influences on hip-hop music. Critic Jason Ankeny wrote: "With their politically charged raps, taut rhythms, and dedication to raising African-American consciousness, the Last Poets almost single-handedly laid the groundwork for the emergence of hip-hop." The British music magazine NME stated, "Serious spokesmen like Gil Scott-Heron, The Last Poets, and later Gary Byrd, paved the way for the many socially committed Black [emcees] a decade later'
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