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Kendrick Lamar wins the Pulitzer for Music Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 18th April 2018
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swing View Post
What?! There was nothing said that was either disrespectful or ignorant.
He won the prize because he was black...did anybody think that the stones won the grammy for best traditional blues album because they are a well known white rockers, or that their album was "just shid" especially when you know the other records that were nominated?
Old 18th April 2018
  #32
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12tone's Avatar
 

That in a forum supposedly comprised of folks within the broader artistic community, that anyone views culture and art as though they're ostrich with its head in the sand, is quite stultifying.

The ignorance and insensitivity runs deep...
Old 18th April 2018
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
He won the prize because he was black...did anybody think that the stones won the grammy for best traditional blues album because they are a well known white rockers, especially when you know the other records that were nominated?
Well I doubt a kid from Lake Forest could have created Blood. But could the son of two parents from Chicago do so? Yes. Art reflects the artist, and who is the artist is a consequence of their life experience.

I still don't interpret any comments in this thread the way you do.
Old 18th April 2018
  #34
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Plush's Avatar
5 notes repeated over and over to a beat in 4/4 time with no variation. With the chorus:

(Hol' up, b&%ch) sit down
(Hol' up lil' b&%ch, hol' up lil' b&%ch) be humble
(Hol' up, b&%ch) sit down
(Sit down, hol' up, lil' b&%ch)
Be humble (b&%ch)
(Hol' up, hol' up, hol' up, hol' up) b&%ch, sit down
Lil' b&%ch (hol' up, lil' b&%ch) be humble
(Hol' up, b&%ch) sit down
(Hol' up, hol' up, hol' up, hol' up) be humble
(Hol' up, hol' up, hol' up, hol' up, lil' b&%ch) sit down
(Hol' up lil' b&%ch) be humble
(Hol' up, b&%ch) sit down
(Hol' up, sit down, lil' b&%ch)
(Sit down, lil' b&%ch, be humble)
(Hol' up, hol' up, hol' up, hol' up, lil' b&%ch) b&%ch, sit down
(Hol' up, b&%ch) be humble
(Hol' up, b&%ch) sit down
(Hol' up, hol' up, hol' up, hol' up)
Old 18th April 2018
  #35
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12tone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
5 notes repeated over and over to a beat in 4/4 time with no variation. With the chorus:

(Hol' up, b&%ch) sit down
(Hol' up lil' b&%ch, hol' up lil' b&%ch) be humble
(Hol' up, b&%ch) sit down
(Sit down, hol' up, lil' b&%ch)
Be humble (b&%ch)
(Hol' up, hol' up, hol' up, hol' up) b&%ch, sit down
Lil' b&%ch (hol' up, lil' b&%ch) be humble
(Hol' up, b&%ch) sit down
(Hol' up, hol' up, hol' up, hol' up) be humble
(Hol' up, hol' up, hol' up, hol' up, lil' b&%ch) sit down
(Hol' up lil' b&%ch) be humble
(Hol' up, b&%ch) sit down
(Hol' up, sit down, lil' b&%ch)
(Sit down, lil' b&%ch, be humble)
(Hol' up, hol' up, hol' up, hol' up, lil' b&%ch) b&%ch, sit down
(Hol' up, b&%ch) be humble
(Hol' up, b&%ch) sit down
(Hol' up, hol' up, hol' up, hol' up)
Cherry pick much?

You left out the verses:

Quote:
[Verse 1]
Ayy, I remember syrup sandwiches and crime allowances
Finesse a nigga with some counterfeits, but now I’m countin' this
Parmesan where my accountant lives, in fact I'm downin’ this
D'USSÉ with my boo bae tastes like Kool-Aid for the analysts
Girl, I can buy yo' ass the world with my paystub
Ooh, that pussy good, won't you sit it on my taste bloods?
I get way too petty once you let me do the extras
Pull up on your block, then break it down: we playin' Tetris
A.M. to the P.M., P.M. to the A.M., funk
Piss out your per diem, you just gotta hate 'em, funk
If I quit your BM, I still ride Mercedes, funk
If I quit this season, I still be the greatest, funk
My left stroke just went viral
Right stroke put lil' baby in a spiral
Soprano C, we like to keep it on a high note
It's levels to it, you and I know



[Verse 2]
Who dat nigga thinkin' that he frontin' on Man-Man? (Man-Man)
Get the **** off my stage, I'm the Sandman (Sandman)
Get the **** off my dick, that ain't right
I make a play ****ing up your whole life
I'm so ****in' sick and tired of the Photoshop
Show me somethin' natural like afro on Richard Pryor
Show me somethin' natural like ass with some stretch marks
Still will take you down right on your mama's couch in Polo socks
Ayy, this **** way too crazy, ayy, you do not amaze me, ayy
I blew cool from AC, ayy, Obama just paged me, ayy
I don't fabricate it, ayy, most of y'all be fakin', ayy
I stay modest 'bout it, ayy, she elaborate it, ayy
This that Grey Poupon, that Evian, that TED Talk, ayy
Watch my soul speak, you let the meds talk, ayy
If I kill a nigga, it won't be the alcohol, ayy
I'm the realest nigga after all

Old 18th April 2018
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
5 notes repeated over and over to a beat in 4/4 time with no variation. With the chorus:

(Hol' up, b&%ch) sit down
(Hol' up lil' b&%ch, hol' up lil' b&%ch) be humble
(Hol' up, b&%ch) sit down
(Sit down, hol' up, lil' b&%ch)
Be humble (b&%ch)
(Hol' up, hol' up, hol' up, hol' up) b&%ch, sit down
Lil' b&%ch (hol' up, lil' b&%ch) be humble
(Hol' up, b&%ch) sit down
(Hol' up, hol' up, hol' up, hol' up) be humble
(Hol' up, hol' up, hol' up, hol' up, lil' b&%ch) sit down
(Hol' up lil' b&%ch) be humble
(Hol' up, b&%ch) sit down
(Hol' up, sit down, lil' b&%ch)
(Sit down, lil' b&%ch, be humble)
(Hol' up, hol' up, hol' up, hol' up, lil' b&%ch) b&%ch, sit down
(Hol' up, b&%ch) be humble
(Hol' up, b&%ch) sit down
(Hol' up, hol' up, hol' up, hol' up)
Did you listen to the song, or are you just going by what someone else posted?!

Please tell us how many notes and variation changes in the beat are needed to declare sound music...
Old 18th April 2018
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swing View Post
Well I doubt a kid from Lake Forest could have created Blood.
Probably the most hateful thing about rap in the subconscious of many people.

Quote:
I still don't interpret any comments in this thread the way you do.
"just shid

Race played a part in this award."

clearly implies that the work and the artist are no good, but he got it because they needed or wanted to give the award to a black guy for some reason so he won....really now.
Old 18th April 2018
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
Probably the most hateful thing about rap in the subconscious of many people.

. . .
What is the most hateful thing about rap in the subconscious of many people?

EDIT: If you mean because it is created by African Americans, then I'd have to say my opinion, unfortunately, is there is truth to that. Also, as this is GS after all, and my comments here apply to rock 'n roll and a little to pop as well, if transformerless micpres and clean mics were used in recording then the lyrics may be more understandable. And I'll add further that rap is not at all easy to do well, whereas the Beetles, for example, would make endless attempts in the studio to lay down a guitar or drum track for simple pieces and I understand one of the reasons they stopped doing concerts was because it was difficult to do live what they could do in the studio. And jazz musicians are refreshing, many who I know prefer to give it a shot and move on.

Last edited by Swing; 18th April 2018 at 01:46 PM..
Old 18th April 2018
  #39
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnorman View Post
Copland, Corigliano, John Adams, Kendrick Lamar.
I truly have no words...
You mad huh?
Old 18th April 2018
  #40
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Yeah it is more interesting to talk of the clash of cultures presented by transformerless mic pres and clean mics recording rap, and more so about Kendrick Lamar in American culture.

Last edited by Swing; 18th April 2018 at 02:07 PM.. Reason: vibe
Old 18th April 2018
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swing View Post
What is the most hateful thing about rap in the subconscious of many people?
The fact that its still dominated by the people who created it and everybody else couldn't just 'appropriate' it (and not give credit) like blues, rock & roll and R&B.
Old 18th April 2018
  #42
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Plush's Avatar
Just posting about the lyric content. It is on a high level just like my post. NOT. I was raised by a strong black woman. She would never have allowed this album’s content or advice to young black men.

“We have an emergency in America with our young black men.”
—Prof. Cornel West (my preferred public intellectual)
Old 18th April 2018
  #43
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12tone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
Just posting about the lyric content. It is on a high level just like my post. NOT. I was raised by a strong black woman. She would never have allowed this album’s content or advice to young black men.
Dude, your boilerplate excuse does not condone nor absolve willful spewing of ignorance and wanton, blatant, ignorant perpetuation of pejorative stereotypes.

The measure of a person is not who they were raised by, but by their thoughts and actions. You are what you say and do, not who you were raised by...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
“We have an emergency in America with our young black men.”
—Prof. Cornel West (my preferred public intellectual)
I'm almost certain Dr West is applauding Kendrick's Pulitzer.

“Music at its best...is the grand archeology into and transfiguration of our guttural cry, the great human effort to grasp in time our deepest passions and yearnings as prisoners of time. Profound music leads us--beyond language--to the dark roots of our scream and the celestial
heights of our silence. ”
― Cornel West,
Old 18th April 2018
  #44
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Plush's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
Dude, your boilerplate excuse does not condone nor absolve willful spewing of ignorance and wanton, blatant, ignorant perpetuation of pejorative stereotypes.

The measure of a person is not who they were raised by, but by their thoughts and actions. You are what you say and do, not who you were raised by...

I'm almost certain Dr West is applauding Kendrick's Pulitzer.

“Music at its best...is the grand archeology into and transfiguration of our guttural cry, the great human effort to grasp in time our deepest passions and yearnings as prisoners of time. Profound music leads us--beyond language--to the dark roots of our scream and the celestial
heights of our silence. ”
― Cornel West,
You follow me around to correct me at every turn. All the while implying I am a racist.

Fortunately I do not take advice from policemen like you. Instead I forge my own path in ideas and debate. I remain unswayed by your criticism and self-righteous pronouncements. You are a dandy.
Old 18th April 2018
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
still much better than what happend at the echo award in germany last week...
bizarre ... anti semitic white rap music wins a German prize
Old 18th April 2018
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
The fact that its still dominated by the people who created it and everybody else couldn't just 'appropriate' it (and not give credit) like blues, rock & roll and R&B.
Yeah, I am with you on that. But on this point I am still a little troubled, and maybe you can clue me in because I am not in the US very much these days and may be missing something.

I see major artists like Beyoncé making a lot of money. She is a true talent. A few years ago for the half time show of the Super Bowl, Beyoncé and her dancers were dressed in Black Panther style. At first I thought that was very cool and could raise the awareness of non-African Americans. Something like that could never have happened 20 years ago. And then the Lemonade album came out. So I started to think there is no limit to what will be used, or appropriated, to make money. And they do make a lot of lemonade, which is fine and ok but is there more to what they do than just to do something to make money? And if not then how are they different from what so many others did?

I can't speak much about Jay-Z alone because I do not listen much to his music, and the most time I've spent listening to him in one stretch was on a video interview he did with the NYT:
Jay-Z Discusses Rap, Marriage and Being a Black Man in Trump’s America - The New York Times

And while my opinion is that the lyrics and performance of Kendrick Lamar on a few of the pieces I've heard is important, and is truly art, a lot of the pieces repeat the same banalities of violence even if the performance is very hard to accomplish. I don't understand the purpose of all that, over and over again. It does reflect the daily repetition of life in some areas of the country, and so in a sense is an honest expression. As such it has value. Am I missing something or is this it?
Old 18th April 2018
  #47
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latweek's Avatar
 

Its just part of the fossilization of a once vital art form that values ritualization over innovation. This stuff pales compared to the Message or for another better example, by Rakim.

Its another sign of its demise that the stagnation of the genre has allowed it to become acceptable to be bourgie bourgeois award giving class.

It's the "smooth" jazz era for hip hop now that it is "safely sanitized" to assimilate by so called "talented" entertainers who deliver it comfortably into your Xbox whatever.
Old 18th April 2018
  #48
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12tone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swing View Post
a lot of the pieces repeat the same banalities of violence even if the performance is very hard to accomplish. I don't understand the purpose of all that, over and over again.
You answered your own question...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swing View Post
It does reflect the daily repetition of life in some areas of the country, and so in a sense is an honest expression. As such it has value.
Old 18th April 2018
  #49
Gear Nut
 
ronmac's Avatar
I refuse to discuss the merits of the win until I know what microphones and compression settings were used.
Old 18th April 2018
  #50
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by latweek View Post
Its just part of the fossilization of a once vital art form that values ritualization over innovation. This stuff pales compared to the Message or for another better example, by Rakim.

Its another sign of its demise that the stagnation of the genre has allowed it to become acceptable to be bourgie bourgeois award giving class.

It's the "smooth" jazz era for hip hop now that it is "safely sanitized" to assimilate by so called "talented" entertainers who deliver it comfortably into your Xbox whatever.
Absolutely right.
Old 18th April 2018
  #51
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12tone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by latweek View Post
Its another sign of its demise that the stagnation of the genre has allowed it to become acceptable to be bourgie bourgeois award giving class.
That's quite a statement, given the milquetoast , overtly academic nature of the winners in the history of music Pulitzer - much of which by comparison would make smooth jazz seem like grindcore.

If anything, Kendrick's award is a reaction to what you state. Perhaps an attempt to address the monstrously cavernous dichotomy of the relevance and importance of the Pulitzer's journalism prizes as compared to the ridiculous banal bourgeoisness of the music ones...
Old 18th April 2018
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swing View Post
And while my opinion is that the lyrics and performance of Kendrick Lamar on a few of the pieces I've heard is important, and is truly art, a lot of the pieces repeat the same banalities of violence even if the performance is very hard to accomplish. I don't understand the purpose of all that, over and over again. It does reflect the daily repetition of life in some areas of the country, and so in a sense is an honest expression. As such it has value. Am I missing something or is this it?
This is like asking why people still sing about love and heartbreak when we've heard it all already...some things are only banal and unimportant to us because they're not part of our daily lives.

The things he raps about are current and important to his audience, and as you pointed out:
"It does reflect the daily repetition of life in some areas of the country, and so in a sense is an honest expression."
Old 18th April 2018
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Spearritt View Post
English and other languages are so limited too. If only we could could expand our communication possibilities further. They are really holding us back.
Not a comparable comparison at all.

The fact that music notation is highly limited, highly incomplete, and highly dependent on a bunch of preset factors to be in place is nothing new: 5 1/2 Examples of Experimental Music Notation | Arts & Culture | Smithsonian

And this descrepancy between what can be performed sonically and what can be printed on paper using traditional notation is only increasing in nature, as sonics move further and further away from known instruments playing within known limitations.

"Can't be communicated using music notation" can thus easily be a PLUS in my eyes, a compliment to a piece of music.
Old 18th April 2018
  #54
Gear Addict
For those who are interested, there is a good article on Kendrick's background here:

Kendrick Lamar on His Career, ‘Damn,’ ‘To Pimp a Butterfly’ and More – Variety

Also, I would just say, if you are interested in production, gear and creativity, as one would hope if you are reading Gearslutz, then you should seriously be listening to Kendrick and a host of his contemporaries and forebears. These guys know how to use sound, layering and weaving studio techniques with live players and samples, in innovate ways you won't find elsewhere. Which has been the case for at least the last thirty years. A lot of them could hold long conversations about mics, DAWs and the rest of it with anybody here, but that is far from the most interesting thing about them, which is their social engagement, their freewheeling inventiveness and their ability to take existing forms and bend them into something radical and fresh.

You might find this interesting too:

Kendrick Lamar proves hip-hop is the only genre that matters right now - The Washington Post
Old 18th April 2018
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsyourself View Post
This one really went for the kill lol

"The Pulitzer for Lamar might confuse or anger those reared on the great canon of rock, but perhaps we will no longer have to endure the cloudy reveries of middle-aged men bemoaning the fact that fewer people seem to appreciate the brilliance of a 20-minute Clapton or Hendrix solo anymore. Didn’t millions of us, after all, live out our arena-rock fantasies with the Guitar Hero video game just a few years ago?

Mercifully, rock has been displaced by hip-hop, with its daring formal innovations, its blistering polemics and its vital role as a sounding board for powerful social movements. "
Old 18th April 2018
  #56
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I've lived in rough neighborhoods, and seen violence. I dislike being dramatic but I know the sound of bullets sizzling past my head, shot by gang members. And I know how a gun feels when pressed against my head, held by a policeman. I've been inside the maximum security prison in Cook County (Chicago).

In these same neighborhoods I also saw a lot of love. And I've had police come to help me at 3 a.m. during a break-in, 2 minutes after I called. How many rap tunes focus on love and help? Some of the pieces like Lamar's Blood, are art. Blood begins with a strong theme of human empathy. Most of the pieces I've heard are unlike Blood.

Most seem to be worn vehicles appropriating violence; seemingly to make money, very much like many violent video games. I could be wrong about the usual thematic content of most rap and hip hop pieces, and would welcome to be corrected.

None of this is to say Lamar is not worthy of a Pulitzer. I am speaking more broadly about what seems to be the almost exclusive focus on violence in rap and hip hop.
Old 18th April 2018
  #57
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12tone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by itsyourself View Post
For those who are interested, there is a good article on Kendrick's background here:

Kendrick Lamar on His Career, ‘Damn,’ ‘To Pimp a Butterfly’ and More – Variety
IMO To Pimp a Butterfly is a masterpiece, in every way - it holds up to anything from any era. If all projects aspired for that level of excellence, this world would be a better place.
Old 18th April 2018
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swing View Post
I've lived in rough neighborhoods, and seen violence. I dislike being dramatic but I know the sound of bullets sizzling past my head, shot by gang members. And I know how a gun feels when pressed against my head, held by a policeman. I've been inside the maximum security prison in Cook County (Chicago).

In these same neighborhoods I also saw a lot of love. And I've had police come to help me at 3 a.m. during a break-in, 2 minutes after I called. How many rap tunes focus on love and help? Some of the pieces like Lamar's Blood, are art. Blood begins with a strong theme of human empathy. Most of the pieces I've heard are unlike Blood.

Most seem to be worn vehicles appropriating violence; seemingly to make money, very much like many violent video games. I could be wrong about the usual thematic content of most rap and hip hop pieces, and would welcome to be corrected.
Why is the above relevant?

Quote:
None of this is to say Lamar is not worthy of a Pulitzer. I am speaking more broadly about what seems to be the almost exclusive focus on violence in rap and hip hop.
This is an exaggeration and an oversimplification of the reality...most of the more popular rap songs and albums did not focus on violence, and for every song or album that you can list that does, I can list two that does not.

Furthermore, this question was asked and answered already.
Old 18th April 2018
  #59
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Because it seems to me that most rap and hip hop is violent. But the consumers of the genre seem to buy into this and my experience is the product does not reflect a balance of the reality.
Old 18th April 2018
  #60
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And the reason that it appropriates the violence is doing so makes more money.
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