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Kendrick Lamar wins the Pulitzer for Music Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 25th April 2018
  #331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whippoorwill View Post
Sounds like Swedish Appalachian music. The drone is very interesting, evocative of many different musics and instruments. There's also a weird Irish/Balkan phrasing/articulating/embellishing thing going on.

Do they got hillbillies in Sweden?

EDIT: Norwegian fiddle player!

Last edited by 12tone; 25th April 2018 at 03:50 PM.. Reason: Wrong Scandinavian country!
Old 25th April 2018
  #332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
I don’t know this “weed” thread but that’s not really a suitable GS topic anyway.

Nothing wrong with where this is going. Let’s keep the discussion away from forum critique - if you want to discuss that go to forum issues.
It was this one Do you smoke weed ?

That request by the OP was honored 20 pages in. Was a good discussion in many ways, with some good "gear" suggestions that are a more healthy option.

No big deal, just would be good to close down threads as a very very last resort. That one seemed hasty.
Old 25th April 2018
  #333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
Do they got hillbillies in Sweden?

EDIT: Norwegian fiddle player!
Yes, and yes, respectively....
Old 25th April 2018
  #334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
Yes, and yes, respectively....
I'll bet they drive Volvos and watch Bergman. (the Swedish yokels that is)
Old 25th April 2018
  #335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
This is a very dramatic and pessimistic view of the state of affairs...The fact is that many people who want to hold on to the old way of doing things are having a hard time coping. Those (at all levels) who have adjusted to the new paradigm will fare better in general, the business hasn't gone away, it's just shifted and new structures and concepts have replaced some of the rigid structures that existed previously.

People are still making (and selling) records and gigging, they're just doing things a little differently...its a different time for musicians and studio owners.
Some of the criticism is because some of what drove the new 'era' was the ability to take music without paying with impunity. So to many people who have been around for a while what changed wasn't so much a way of doing business but a way to break the law.

In addition to that some criticism is also of technological advances in relation to our society. This evolution of technology will have an even more dramatic effect on art than what we've seen so far. It won't stop at 'more people can now create art' when we have AI around the corner. A virtually unlimited supply means zero value. When AI finally is able to efficiently produce art at a virtually unlimited level whatever it produces will force the price down to essentially zero. And since I think many are now paying for the service/convenience more so than the music (arguably) this will be a big issue.
Old 25th April 2018
  #336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
I'll bet they drive Volvos and watch Bergman. (the Swedish yokels that is)
no, and no, respectively... ;-)
Old 25th April 2018
  #337
RPC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
Can that "music" be notated and published? Words can be printed on the page but where do you put the notes if there aren't any?
Four decades ago my university held a week-long festival of John Cage's music. Trust me, the notation I observed had arbitrarily little to do with the conventional!
Old 26th April 2018
  #338
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPC View Post
Four decades ago my university held a week-long festival of John Cage's music. Trust me, the notation I observed had arbitrarily little to do with the conventional!




I think I prefer 4:44
Old 27th April 2018
  #339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
Sounds like Swedish Appalachian music. The drone is very interesting, evocative of many different musics and instruments. There's also a weird Irish/Balkan phrasing/articulating/embellishing thing going on.

Do they got hillbillies in Sweden?

EDIT: Norwegian fiddle player!
Aren't Scandinavian immigrants ( who were shunned by most Americans upon arrival) the very origins of what is a "hillbilly"? I do remember reading that the American solution to poverty and starvation in the Appalachians was to send them all to Alaska via San Francisco. There used to be a large " hillbilly" population in the Bay Area called El Sobrente ( The Leftovers/The Surplus w/evv's).
Old 27th April 2018
  #340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneHall View Post
Aren't Scandinavian immigrants ( who were shunned by most Americans upon arrival) the very origins of what is a "hillbilly"? I do remember reading that the American solution to poverty and starvation in the Appalachians was to send them all to Alaska via San Francisco. There used to be a large " hillbilly" population in the Bay Area called El Sobrente ( The Leftovers/The Surplus w/evv's).
Just a quick take:

AFAIK, a lot of the "hillbillies" are of Irish, Scottish stock, I guess the throwaways and less desirable of WASP castes.

As far as the Scandinavian diaspora, generally speaking, a good lot of them ended up in Minnesota, to a lesser extent Wisconsin, and somewhat also in the Pacific NW, especially Washington state.
Old 27th April 2018
  #341


Gotta love the borders, walls and generalizations.

Physiques and chemistry, take me out of my misery, i cant take it anymore.
Old 27th April 2018
  #342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneHall View Post
Appalachians
The Hatfields and McCoys feud, set in mid 19th century Appalachia, predating the East Coast–West Coast hip hop rivalry by a good 150 years, would be very gangsta, and quite bloody, even by today's standards.

The respective genealogies of the patriarchs:

William Anderson ("Devil Anse") Hatfield -> father - English and Swedish, mother - Scots-Irish.

William McCoy -> born in Ireland, many of his ancestors hailed from Scotland
Old 2nd May 2018
  #343
Gear Head
 

Lamar makes his points best in album form. Despite the seeming "shallowness" of "HUMBLE.," it has a specific context within the album that might reveal its subversiveness. That said, this is more apparent in his previous albums which also are more focused and innovative, in the case of To Pimp a Butterfly at least, and "HUMBLE." might be my least favorite track of his.

I think this is the one which won the Pulitzer because it rode the hype the accumulated since it was announced to the top of the charts. It was ubiquitous. "Culturally important." I also think that Kendrick's tendency to not really care what white people think and want to get his message across to subsets of the black community which seem unreachable by anything but POWER106 is kept in mind by the Pulitzer folks when considering the more commercial style of this album. Still, good kid M.A.A.D city and To Pimp a Butterfly are very poignant albums and I wish, if he was going to win a Pulitzer, they hadn't slept on him when he released those albums. I'm glad he won the Pulitzer, though. I agree that he deserves it for something, even if not necessarily the album for which he won it.
Old 2nd May 2018
  #344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polymorphia View Post
Lamar makes his points best in album form. Despite the seeming "shallowness" of "HUMBLE.," it has a specific context within the album that might reveal its subversiveness. That said, this is more apparent in his previous albums which also are more focused and innovative, in the case of To Pimp a Butterfly at least, and "HUMBLE." might be my least favorite track of his.

I think this is the one which won the Pulitzer because it rode the hype the accumulated since it was announced to the top of the charts. It was ubiquitous. "Culturally important."
I think your post is very interesting. It suggests that the Pulitzer prize is awarding for popularity (white or black), which in the process of doing so confuses two things, popularity and quality/content.

I have not made a serious study into hip hop and do not have any deep insight into it, but I listened carefully to the Humble youtube video, and thought that the content of it was remarkably similar to a typical Trump speech (from such different areas of USA culture there is a similar point of view).

I was struck with the high quality of the video production, and have a feeling that hip hop has similarities to the fashion industry in the way that it can sell a synthetic, glamorized "street" vibe.

The Miles Davis masterpiece "On the Corner" combined cartoon like images of street pimps and hookers on the album cover and an innovative modal and trance-like version of jazz improvisation, way before the numbing beat of hip hop.
Old 2nd May 2018
  #345
Well the prize criteria is very open to interpretation - "For a distinguished musical composition by an American that has had its first performance or recording in the United States during the year". It just needs to be distinguished, in that sense popularity is clearly one way to distinguish a composition, it could equally distinguish itself by perceived originality, style, political content, would benefit the foundation the most, or even "was easiest to sing along to in the shower".

I don't see Kendrick's stuff as stand out compared to what Joyner Lucas or even NF have come out with over the same time period. It's very MOR. But that doesn't make it bad, just generic corporate, more of "the man" than "amen". The guy is obviously smart and knows his business well. The thing is it doesn't matter what I, you or anyone else here thinks, that criteria is completely open and just means for whatever reason Kendrick's stuff ticked the boxes the judges required. Hey, at least it's got people talking about the Pulitzer prize for Music.
Old 2nd May 2018
  #346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aracu View Post
way before the numbing beat of hip hop.
Joe Zawinul claims he invented the hip-hop beat in 1973.

Old 3rd May 2018
  #347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
Joe Zawinul claims he invented the hip-hop beat in 1973.
Although it's going off topic, there are some amazing collaborations between
Alice Coltrane and Jack DeJohnette from that time period.
Old 3rd May 2018
  #348
Gear Head
 

The only similarity to Joyner Lucas I can see is that they both vaguely fall into the "conscious rap" category.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aracu View Post
I think your post is very interesting. It suggests that the Pulitzer prize is awarding for popularity (white or black), which in the process of doing so confuses two things, popularity and quality/content.

I have not made a serious study into hip hop and do not have any deep insight into it, but I listened carefully to the Humble youtube video, and thought that the content of it was remarkably similar to a typical Trump speech (from such different areas of USA culture there is a similar point of view).

I was struck with the high quality of the video production, and have a feeling that hip hop has similarities to the fashion industry in the way that it can sell a synthetic, glamorized "street" vibe.

The Miles Davis masterpiece "On the Corner" combined cartoon like images of street pimps and hookers on the album cover and an innovative modal and trance-like version of jazz improvisation, way before the numbing beat of hip hop.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not necessarily suggesting that the Pulitzer is a popularity contest, although all awards have an element of that inherently. But the popularity of this album as a factor of it winning the prize makes sense with Lamar's trajectory. He's a rapper who has, over three albums, expanded rap's audience. From the personal storytelling of Section.80 and good kid to the intricate, jazzy epic about racism and corruption in the rap industry To Pimp a Butterfly to the chartbusting DAMN. Those previous albums got the attention of critics and academics. If not for those albums, I'm not sure the Pulitzer folks would have paid much attention to DAMN. But given the previous albums there was probably a lot more artistic faith in Lamar than if DAMN. had just appeared. I almost think that this was almost like a "better late than never" move rather than a specific preference for DAMN. over the other albums.
Old 4th May 2018
  #349
Sorry - we used to have a dedicated political forum, but it is simply too hard to moderate. There's plenty of places on the web to discuss politics. Here we talk gear.

I won't remove the above, but please let's leave it there!
Old 4th May 2018
  #350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martel80 View Post
But again, I'm not quite sure what you meant with your racial stereotyping point view in rap.
Rap presents a narrowly defined, sellable image of what black culture supposedly is.

An example, in the Humble video, is yelling the n word repeatedly. In my simple minded white interpretation that is a referrence to black people with negative connotations, although oddly fashionable in street culture.

There is a subliminal negative message in the strict limitations imposed on structure, harmony, and dynamics, in rap music, that those musical elements belong to white culture.
Old 4th May 2018
  #351
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IM WHO YOU THINK's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by aracu View Post
Rap presents a narrowly defined, sellable image of what black culture supposedly is.

An example, in the Humble video, is yelling the n word repeatedly. In my simple minded white interpretation that is a referrence to black people with negative connotations, although oddly fashionable in street culture.

There is a subliminal negative message in the strict limitations imposed on structure, harmony, and dynamics, in rap music, that those musical elements belong to white culture.
lol
Old 4th May 2018
  #352
Quote:
Originally Posted by aracu View Post
Rap presents a narrowly defined, sellable image of what black culture supposedly is.

An example, in the Humble video, is yelling the n word repeatedly. In my simple minded white interpretation that is a referrence to black people with negative connotations, although oddly fashionable in street culture.

There is a subliminal negative message in the strict limitations imposed on structure, harmony, and dynamics, in rap music, that those musical elements belong to white culture.
Maybe you misunderstood their point of view on that matter.

They are actually saying the opposite. That its ok for them to refer to this particular word as it is suposed to be said in a ''friendly'' way...I guess like any friend would call each other ''dumba$s'' in a friendly way, if you'd like to put it that way.
They are actually also stating that the music they do is linked ONLY to ''black'' culture and anyone outside a certain amount of melanine percentage in their skin tone is actually responsible of cultural appropriation.A little of a double mentality on the racism matter here, but hey...nobody's perfect.....

My issue with the N word, on the opposite, is that its a complete shame for the ''white'' people. There's no shame in being a victim of such an horrible crime......but there's certainly a huge amount of shame for a skin color to be responsible of a genocide and slavery.
Old 4th May 2018
  #353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aracu View Post
There is a subliminal negative message in the strict limitations imposed on structure, harmony, and dynamics, in rap music, that those musical elements belong to white culture.
That's kind of an ironic statement, in that it's African American music that is at the foundation of practically all popular non-classical music forms from the early 20th century on within American culture, and if one can't agree to that then without question it would be hard to argue that it's the most dominant influence, taking everything, including history, into account.
Old 4th May 2018
  #354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martel80 View Post
They are actually saying the opposite. That its ok for them to refer to this particular word as it is suposed to be said in a ''friendly'' way...I guess like any friend would call each other ''dumba$s'' in a friendly way, if you'd like to put it that way.
They are actually also stating that the music they do is linked ONLY to ''black'' culture and anyone outside a certain amount of melanine percentage in their skin tone is actually responsible of cultural appropriation.A little of a double mentality on the racism matter here, but hey...nobody's perfect.....

My issue with the N word, on the opposite, is that its a complete shame for the ''white'' people. There's no shame in being a victim of such an horrible crime......but there's certainly a huge amount of shame for a skin color to be responsible of a genocide and slavery.
I understand what you mean, that it's not so simple.

There's a particular use of the word in the street context.

But according to your interpretation or mine, it's a term which shames
either white or black or both. It's open to interpretation but
doesn't stray far from shame.
Old 4th May 2018
  #355
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
That's kind of an ironic statement, in that it's African American music that is at the foundation of practically all popular non-classical music forms from the early 20th century on within American culture, and if one can't agree to that then without question it would be hard to argue that it's the most dominant influence, taking everything, including history, into account.
I don't understand exactly what you mean, but for example, I've heard tracks
of Alice Coltrane/Jack DeJohnette ensembles which did not conform to
pre-concieved notions of black, white, jazz or American categories. The
listener is propelled into the present moment.
Old 4th May 2018
  #356
Quote:
Originally Posted by aracu View Post
I understand what you mean, that it's not so simple.

There's a particular use of the word in the street context.

But according to your interpretation or mine, it's a term which shames
either white or black or both. It's open to interpretation but
doesn't stray far from shame.
Well, When a ''black'' person say that to another ''Black'' person, they are not having a second thought on a denigrating therm.....they are saying it in a very private and friendly way. So its not always about shame in their ''segregated idea of black people'' point of view.
Old 4th May 2018
  #357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aracu View Post
I don't understand exactly what you mean, but for example, I've heard tracks
of Alice Coltrane/Jack DeJohnette ensembles which did not conform to
pre-concieved notions of black, white, jazz or American categories. The
listener is propelled into the present moment.
Rock n roll initially did, thus rock, comes from black music.

Blues, swing and jazz are African-American art forms.

If one doesn't get that, read some books...

Alice Coltrane was, and Jack DeJohnette is profoundly aware of what I'm talking about. BTW, Jack has Trane's son Ravi in his band, along with Trane's bassist Jimmy Garrison's son Matthew as well.
Old 4th May 2018
  #358
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@aracu @Martel80 don't let the ignorance espoused in much of Hip Hop fool you into thinking that the N word is a friendly term, it isn't, never has been and never will nor should be.
Old 4th May 2018
  #359
Quote:
Originally Posted by boombapdame View Post
@aracu @Martel80 don't let the ignorance espoused in much of Hip Hop fool you into thinking that the N word is a friendly term, it isn't, never has been and never will nor should be.
I totally agree.

Sadly, not everybody think this way.
Old 4th May 2018
  #360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
Rock n roll initially did, thus rock, comes from black music.

Blues, swing and jazz are African-American art forms.

If one doesn't get that, read some books...
Without question, absolutely unequivocally correct.
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