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Kendrick Lamar wins the Pulitzer for Music Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 24th April 2018
  #271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimjazzdad View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
...I for one think music is in a very good place right now...I also find the radio quite listenable in general right now, esp compared to 6-15 years ago, its taken a strong turn for the better IMO...Live music wise, I have every option I could ever want..Its a great time IMO.
Sorry if I am cherry picking from your statement, but I think if you are a musician or a small studio, its a terrible time. Nobody wants to pay for music anymore, the album format is near dead due to iTunes and like services, streaming radio pays the artists little to nothing, larger bands and classical orchestras are being being slowly starved by a thousand cuts in funding. MBAs and other 'sharps' run major orchestras and operas into the ground like they are equity-stripping venture capitalists. Professional recording engineers are nickeled and dimed by clients who think they can do better with their iPhones...maybe its better in the rap world, but I doubt it.
I dunno man. I think its just a shifting of roles due to changing times. Fewer guys who are engineers at full service recording studios, for example, but 1000s more fully pro working artists collaborating with each other (with the engineer-strong guy taking that role in a collab, for example). Streaming has actually turned a corner, enough people have signed onto the idea (and stopped stealing mp3s) that much better money is coming from it. From the article: "streaming revenues for indie labels and independent artists grew by 80.4% to $2.1bn in 2016." Yes that's 2.1 billion in streaming revenues for indie artists. Go get your slice!

My experience as an indie artist with a handful of major label production credits is more along these lines: AWAL | Independent Artists Are Now a Billion-Dollar Market

Another good source: WINTEL 2017 – Worldwide Independent Market Report | Worldwide Independent Network

Many pieces of the old model are crumbling though, yes. And these people will be displaced, which is what inevitably happens as the world evolves. But many many many other new types of opportunities are wide open, and the bottom line is pretty decent right now, and growing.

Last edited by newguy1; 24th April 2018 at 03:55 AM.. Reason: more
Old 24th April 2018
  #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimjazzdad View Post
Sorry if I am cherry picking from your statement, but I think if you are a musician or a small studio, its a terrible time. Nobody wants to pay for music anymore, the album format is near dead due to iTunes and like services, streaming radio pays the artists little to nothing, larger bands and classical orchestras are being being slowly starved by a thousand cuts in funding. MBAs and other 'sharps' run major orchestras and operas into the ground like they are equity-stripping venture capitalists. Professional recording engineers are nickeled and dimed by clients who think they can do better with their iPhones...maybe its better in the rap world, but I doubt it.
This is a very dramatic and pessimistic view of the state of affairs...The fact is that many people who want to hold on to the old way of doing things are having a hard time coping. Those (at all levels) who have adjusted to the new paradigm will fare better in general, the business hasn't gone away, it's just shifted and new structures and concepts have replaced some of the rigid structures that existed previously.

People are still making (and selling) records and gigging, they're just doing things a little differently...its a different time for musicians and studio owners. It's different for booking agents, show promoters and record distributers too...there was a paradigm change when things changed from the local, independent record shop that sold vinyl records and had sales staff that knew about the bands and their music to the big chain stores that sold mostly CDs and hired staff that knew nothing and didn't really care about the 'products' they sold.

The claim that nobody wants to pay for music anymore is false, iTunes and other like services does not give away music, and capitalism was always the cornerstone of the music business...if you didn't make money you were dumped like garbage. I don't understand how people choosing to make records on their own equate to professional engineers getting nickeled and dimed.
Old 24th April 2018
  #273
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IM WHO YOU THINK's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
This is a very dramatic and pessimistic view of the state of affairs...The fact is that many people who want to hold on to the old way of doing things are having a hard time coping. Those (at all levels) who have adjusted to the new paradigm will fare better in general, the business hasn't gone away, it's just shifted and new structures and concepts have replaced some of the rigid structures that existed previously.

People are still making (and selling) records and gigging, they're just doing things a little differently...its a different time for musicians and studio owners. It's different for booking agents, show promoters and record distributers too...there was a paradigm change when things changed from the local, independent record shop that sold vinyl records and had sales staff that knew about the bands and their music to the big chain stores that sold mostly CDs and hired staff that knew nothing and didn't really care about the 'products' they sold.

The claim that nobody wants to pay for music anymore is false, iTunes and other like services does not give away music, and capitalism was always the cornerstone of the music business...if you didn't make money you were dumped like garbage. I don't understand how people choosing to make records on their own equate to professional engineers getting nickeled and dimed.

Do you know anyone that has been doing this professionally for >20 years who's having better financial years than they used to? How many people do you know that are?
Old 24th April 2018
  #274
f33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimjazzdad View Post
Sorry if I am cherry picking from your statement, but I think if you are a musician or a small studio, its a terrible time. Nobody wants to pay for music anymore, the album format is near dead due to iTunes and like services, streaming radio pays the artists little to nothing, larger bands and classical orchestras are being being slowly starved by a thousand cuts in funding. MBAs and other 'sharps' run major orchestras and operas into the ground like they are equity-stripping venture capitalists. Professional recording engineers are nickeled and dimed by clients who think they can do better with their iPhones...maybe its better in the rap world, but I doubt it.
i think he was just talking about the music, not the music business
Old 24th April 2018
  #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IM WHO YOU THINK View Post
Do you know anyone that has been doing this professionally for >20 years who's having better financial years than they used to? How many people do you know that are?
Yes I do, I work with more than a few bands who are in a better place financially now that before. Not amateur or whiz-bang internet savvy kids who spend their time manipulating and stroking their image on social media, I'm talking about serious, professional, old school blues rock, world music, reggae and folks artists/bands who spend time cranking out great tunes and gigging.

Most were part of the old record label structure and almost all had a degree of success during that period...I'm not saying the success is guaranteed and universal, this is a direct response to your question.
Old 24th April 2018
  #276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
Yes I do, I work with more than a few bands who are in a better place financially now that before. Not amateur or whiz-bang internet savvy kids who spend their time manipulating and stroking their image on social media, I'm talking about serious, professional, old school blues rock, world music, reggae and folks artists/bands who spend time cranking out great tunes and gigging.

Most were part of the old record label structure and almost all had a degree of success during that period...I'm not saying the success is guaranteed and universal, this is a direct response to your question.
Cool. What changed? What are they doing now that's generating more income than before?
Old 24th April 2018
  #277
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YouTube
Old 24th April 2018
  #278
Quote:
Originally Posted by IM WHO YOU THINK View Post
I apologize. I'm a financial analyst by trade, financial markets raise my antenna. When I asked the question, I was specifically asking about hip hop. Of course there's no right or wrong answer, I just wanted to know your opinion on the current state.
The market has moved elsewhere and led the genre in an industry of its own. What used to be pushed by the big labels and was invested into ( and later refunded by an extortion contract signed by an unaware young and talented artist ) can now be reached by anyone with a little of money. This go from street gangs, mafiosi, decent living father to a consortium of musician investing all together in a product they believe can be profitable. The only thing they need after their production and marketing plan is set in stone is a distributor and who on earth wouldnt want to ask for 30% of a product without investing a single token...so yeah....there goes your big labels.

Youtube and spotify are some example of the alternative market that have been developed since the big marketing business has crashed.

Also, the live performances and subsidized product are now seen as the main source of incomes for those ''independant'' machine.

A kid can now rent a luxury car with the help of a decent credit card holder, paint his hair rainbow color, buy a couple of ''mendatory'' accessory linked to the genre and get famous in no time. While I'm writing this I'm thinking about Lil yachty, Danielle Broglio aka Cash Me Outside or who has been recently presented to me , Russ...a Youtube sensation, nothing more nothing less. They only need a decent vocal chain, a ''Stop sign'' type of beatmaker, half a grand for mixing mastering and Boom...you're out in the wild. The only thing that make a big difference now is how ''gloss-finish'' your video look like.

The world of popular music as switched to a different gear and I'm not quite sure about the opinion I have about it but one thing I can say is that it can be way more profitable for an artist .....the question is, at what cost ( integrity ) !??

Please take note that I'm talking about the Pop rap here......The ''underground or golden era '' type of music has stayed untouch and still is very difficult to get into and be recognized. Those 2 are 2 different market and for the most part, one and the other doesnt appreciate each other.
Old 24th April 2018
  #279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IM WHO YOU THINK View Post
Cool. What changed? What are they doing now that's generating more income than before?
The short answer is that they are taking home a higher percentage of the money that their work generates...Some people might actually sell less records but they pocket more from each sale, the same goes for touring, and they are never in debt to the label.

It's amazing how (some) people can and will find new and innovative ways to make things happen when the need arise...we should be mindful that this all came about because many artists and bands decided to do things on there own rather than wait for the powers that be to roll the dice and hope for their number to come up. This was not initiated by the record labels and big production companies.

A few years ago I met a young but very talented six-piece reggae band in Jamaica who had produced a kick ass album that they couldn't get distribution for and they had no touring possibilities either. With the help of friends and other young bands they promoted a live concert on a beach that featured only young bands like themselves. It was specifically kept on a Sunday evening on a beach outside of kingston so as not to clash with any other event...word of mouth, internet and computer printed poster on university campuses.

The entry was a modest $5 to pay for the production...sound, lights, electricity, venue, backline and a very small tech. crew, none of the five bands (including them) or the DJ were paid but they all sold CDs. The event was so successful that they decided to do it again a month later with other bands...that was so successful that they decided to make it a weekly event. The event became so popular that some enterprising tour operators started to bring bus loads of tourist to the event which caught the attention of the local tourist board and sponsors. Then one night there was a band from Japan, bands from Europe, DJs from the US etc.

Their record that nobody wanted to distribute became a hit with very good internet sales (especially) in Europe and by the time the record labels and big tour agencies got hip to them, the band was not really interested in a deal. Many European festival promoters come to Jamaica in January and February to scout this and other shows for fresh, new talent...and other bands, some as far away as Japan, Germany and Scandinavia have copied what they did with vaping degrees of success.
Old 24th April 2018
  #280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IM WHO YOU THINK View Post
Do you know anyone that has been doing this professionally for >20 years who's having better financial years than they used to? How many people do you know that are?
>20 puts them square in the middle of the paradigm shift. Many of the >20 are doing worse, for the same reason lifelong factory workers were replaced when that business’ paradigm shifted. “Out with the old, in with the new” is a very old saying.

Quick example:

>20 grew up dreaming of being an engineer in a full service studio, leaning towards guitar music. He sees the work as a steady “job at a studio.” These don’t exist the same way they used to and more close each year.

<20 grew up dreaming of being the engineer collaborator in a touring DJ act. There’s 100 new full time successful of these popping up a year, and this is the music that TV, moves, commercials, etc all go after. He sees the work as “entrepreneurial, all on me to deliver the goods” as opposed to a “job.”

The “engineer” seed in a kid grows in another direction now. Along with many others. That’s the effect of the paradigm shift at play.
Old 24th April 2018
  #281
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IM WHO YOU THINK's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
The short answer is that they are taking home a higher percentage of the money that their work generates...Some people might actually sell less records but they pocket more from each sale, the same goes for touring, and they are never in debt to the label.

It's amazing how (some) people can and will find new and innovative ways to make things happen when the need arise...we should be mindful that this all came about because many artists and bands decided to do things on there own rather than wait for the powers that be to roll the dice and hope for their number to come up. This was not initiated by the record labels and big production companies.

A few years ago I met a young but very talented six-piece reggae band in Jamaica who had produced a kick ass album that they couldn't get distribution for and they had no touring possibilities either. With the help of friends and other young bands they promoted a live concert on a beach that featured only young bands like themselves. It was specifically kept on a Sunday evening on a beach outside of kingston so as not to clash with any other event...word of mouth, internet and computer printed poster on university campuses.

The entry was a modest $5 to pay for the production...sound, lights, electricity, venue, backline and a very small tech. crew, none of the five bands (including them) or the DJ were paid but they all sold CDs. The event was so successful that they decided to do it again a month later with other bands...that was so successful that they decided to make it a weekly event. The event became so popular that some enterprising tour operators started to bring bus loads of tourist to the event which caught the attention of the local tourist board and sponsors. Then one night there was a band from Japan, bands from Europe, DJs from the US etc.

Their record that nobody wanted to distribute became a hit with very good internet sales (especially) in Europe and by the time the record labels and big tour agencies got hip to them, the band was not really interested in a deal. Many European festival promoters come to Jamaica in January and February to scout this and other shows for fresh, new talent...and other bands, some as far away as Japan, Germany and Scandinavia have copied what they did with vaping degrees of success.
Honestly, I don't understand how there was ever a time that someone "couldn't get distribution" Making indi records isn't new. We used to use one stops and wholesale spots, and hit the highway.

When you say they became a hit with very good internet sales, how many units are we talking? Most of my childhood friends were moving units in the 90s prior to the consolidation of radio stations, but I hardly see anyone moving nearly as many units indi in this era..

If they're able to sell CDs in this era when hardly anyone I know uses a CD player, that's impressive.

I've never looked at major labels as the enemy as some people seem to. Nobody was ever forced to deal with a major. They were a business option. Most people that I know who signed lucrative deals with majors actually turned down the first few deals offered by majors.

I always see contracts as "OK so that's an option, what's plan B?"

I'm from New Orleans, and the major labels never really had a presence in New Orleans, so everyone I know always did things pretty much on their own to make money and build a buzz. I don't really know any other way.
Old 24th April 2018
  #282
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IM WHO YOU THINK's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
>20 puts them square in the middle of the paradigm shift. Many of the >20 are doing worse, for the same reason lifelong factory workers were replaced when that business’ paradigm shifted. “Out with the old, in with the new” is a very old saying.

Quick example:

>20 grew up dreaming of being an engineer in a full service studio, leaning towards guitar music. He sees the work as a steady “job at a studio.” These don’t exist the same way they used to and more close each year.

<20 grew up dreaming of being the engineer collaborator in a touring DJ act. There’s 100 new full time successful of these popping up a year, and this is the music that TV, moves, commercials, etc all go after. He sees the work as “entrepreneurial, all on me to deliver the goods” as opposed to a “job.”

The “engineer” seed in a kid grows in another direction now. Along with many others. That’s the effect of the paradigm shift at play.

Is the pie bigger or smaller?

It doesn't matter what the paradigm shift is. Either more money is being made in the industry or not.
Old 24th April 2018
  #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IM WHO YOU THINK View Post
Is the pie bigger or smaller?

It doesn't matter what the paradigm shift is. Either more money is being made in the industry or not.
The pie in general is smaller, there were several technological advancements that caused a crash, which bottomed out years ago and is on an upward path now (seeming to accellerate upwards, we'll know in another couple years).

The pie for support roles is smaller. Fewer service jobs like full service studios and full service engineer and traditional producer and studio musician.

But there are more full-time working artists now than ever, 5-6 times what there were in the 90s. So the ability to create your own work and make money at it is better now that its ever been.

My point is its NOT doom and gloom, by any means. Indie streaming pulled 2.1 BILLION in 2016. And that's just indie streaming.

If you're not "making it" in 2018, the most likely reason is the same its always been: your music is either lower quality than what sells or of lesser relevance than what sells. Most, today and in the past, do not "make it." So the chorus of "woe is us, the sky is falling" is very nice on everyone's ego. But its just flat out not true.
Old 24th April 2018
  #284
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimjazzdad View Post
Sorry if I am cherry picking from your statement, but I think if you are a musician or a small studio, its a terrible time. Nobody wants to pay for music anymore, the album format is near dead due to iTunes and like services, streaming radio pays the artists little to nothing, larger bands and classical orchestras are being being slowly starved by a thousand cuts in funding. MBAs and other 'sharps' run major orchestras and operas into the ground like they are equity-stripping venture capitalists. Professional recording engineers are nickeled and dimed by clients who think they can do better with their iPhones...maybe its better in the rap world, but I doubt it.
It's clearly better for the consumers willing to go find good music - there's more of it out there than before. There's also MUCH more bad music out than before too.

For producers of music, the "good old days" are gone... But in all honesty, they were only "good" for the upper echelons of the pyramid when it came to artists, although the folks in the middle (studios/producers/engineers) made a decent living off all the levels of the pyramid.

Now the pyramid (which in my opinion was enforced by the folks making the $$$ decisions and paid for by consumers) is gone. And in many ways we're back to "classical" methods of funding music - you either find a patron (Patreon is a brilliant move), you fund it yourself as a hobby, or you build up enough of a fan base who are willing to pay to hear you. The only good news (for artists) is that the cost to make a good recording is MUCH lower than it was in the "good old days".

We can debate the situation as much as we like, but reality is independent of any effort to describe it.
Old 24th April 2018
  #285
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@Martel80 the term underground is archaic now see Whatever Happened to Underground Rap? – Festival Peak
Old 24th April 2018
  #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMetzinger View Post
The only good news (for artists) is that the cost to make a good recording is MUCH lower than it was in the "good old days".
That's not the only good news. The best news is that the amount of full-time artists able to make a living is exploding compared to the past. Never had better odds at being able to make full time money as an artist in the music business.

Now. . . it may be 5 million divided by 8 artists, instead of 10 milion divided by 2 artists. But theres 6 more artists making a living.

This chart is from 2013, and things have improved significantly since then:



Massive Growth In Independent Musicians & Singers Over The Past Decade | Techdirt

And a 2018 update: It's 2018 and the Music Business is Better than Ever | Agencies - AdAge
Old 24th April 2018
  #287
Quote:
Originally Posted by boombapdame View Post
@Martel80 the term underground is archaic now see Whatever Happened to Underground Rap? – Festival Peak
Thats why it was put between quotation marks.

In the other hand, I'm archaic myself meaning I am not trendy enough to have pink cornrow braid.
And the guy in this article saying ''that label is something that had relevance when the business had some semblance of structure.''....is He talking about when people were blatantly stolen from their art, name and brand they created to be another puppet ??
Or what is he referring to when he's talking Structure exactly ?
The contract that own rappers asses like a pimp ?
''Go get ma money son....shut put and make a track about gangs or you'll get dropped !''
No thanks...keep your structure
Old 24th April 2018
  #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IM WHO YOU THINK View Post
Honestly, I don't understand how there was ever a time that someone "couldn't get distribution" Making indi records isn't new. We used to use one stops and wholesale spots, and hit the highway.
You’re joking right?

Every band you know got a distribution deal they liked and could live with....all of them? What I know is that these guys did well enough on their own that they could pass on what the label was offering.
Old 24th April 2018
  #289
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boombapdame's Avatar
@Martel80 if you read the piece you'd know what structure means/meant. Anyone who refuses to know how biz works will get owned regardless of era, genre, etc.
Old 24th April 2018
  #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
You’re joking right?

Every band you know got a distribution deal they liked and could live with....all of them? What I know is that these guys did well enough on their own that they could pass on what the label was offering.
Yeah the difference between the days where media had to be pressed and shipped physically, and today where a track finished 30 seconds ago can be instantly heard around the world, is indisputable.

This one crosses the line of just arguing for arguing's sake.

The change in the distribution game is enormous and probably the single most impactful technological change in the biz. (IE stolen mp3s and the world of single mp3 sales and streaming, over albums, are a direct result of this pressing/distro shift.)
Old 24th April 2018
  #291
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IM WHO YOU THINK's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMetzinger View Post
It's clearly better for the consumers willing to go find good music - there's more of it out there than before. There's also MUCH more bad music out than before too.

For producers of music, the "good old days" are gone... But in all honesty, they were only "good" for the upper echelons of the pyramid when it came to artists, although the folks in the middle (studios/producers/engineers) made a decent living off all the levels of the pyramid.

Now the pyramid (which in my opinion was enforced by the folks making the $$$ decisions and paid for by consumers) is gone. And in many ways we're back to "classical" methods of funding music - you either find a patron (Patreon is a brilliant move), you fund it yourself as a hobby, or you build up enough of a fan base who are willing to pay to hear you. The only good news (for artists) is that the cost to make a good recording is MUCH lower than it was in the "good old days".

We can debate the situation as much as we like, but reality is independent of any effort to describe it.
I disagree with this. I don't think there's more good music than before.
There's more noise than before, but that doesn't mean the signal to noise ratio is better.
Old 24th April 2018
  #292
Quote:
Originally Posted by boombapdame View Post
@Martel80 if you read the piece you'd know what structure means/meant. Anyone who refuses to know how biz works will get owned regardless of era, genre, etc.
I know exactly how that business work and thats what I underlined in the end.

Just re-read my last post.

Or go ask Mase hows his contract with Bad Boy records 10 year later !
Old 24th April 2018
  #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
You’re joking right?

Every band you know got a distribution deal they liked and could live with....all of them? What I know is that these guys did well enough on their own that they could pass on what the label was offering.
Well, that's not exactly what I said in the post you quoted. But as far as what I actually said,

NO, I'm not joking. Most of my child hood friends never had a problem with distribution, they were either on independent record lables, or running their own.. Keep in mind I grew up in New Orleans, so strictly sticking to hip hop/rap music, I'd be speaking of Baby and Slim, Juvenile, BG, Mystikal (Big Boy Records, before going to Jive), etc....

Cash Money was able to do well in their negotiation with Universal, because they were running a successful business prior to their negotiation.

I didn't say "Every band I know got a distribution deal they liked". All of my childhood friends that made records pretty much released indi records and started out without major label distribution via one stops and wholesalers.

Making money from moving independent units was much easier prior to radio consolidation in the 90s. (I didn't say it was "easy", I said easier.) If you had play on a hand full of stations, you could do shows and make a living between shows/record sales. Over time, between your street promo, your shows, and your radio play, you'd move into other markets.

Yes, most of my friends made records and were pretty successful. We wern't getting filthy rich, but we were all making a living. Also, it was a different time as far as networking went. There was a time here when if you needed a certain piece of gear, and you knew someone who had one, they just loaned it to you. We were all connected as a small community of people who made music and knew each other. We weren't in a hurry to sign with majors. Our goal was to make more money to invest in new projects.

What's crazy is that we were all paying to go into the studio, today more guys have protools rigs, and I see less cooperation.
Old 24th April 2018
  #294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martel80 View Post
Or go ask Mase hows his contract with Bad Boy records 10 year later !
Older artists losing cultural relevancy and moving from majors to smaller labels over time? What a completely new phenomenon to the biz. 42 year olds used to dominate with the 14-25 year old primary record-buying demographic before modern times lol.
Old 24th April 2018
  #295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IM WHO YOU THINK View Post
NO, I'm not joking. Most of my child hood friends never had a problem with distribution. Keep in mind I grew up in New Orleans, so strictly sticking to hip hop/rap music, I'd be speaking of Baby and Slim, Mystikal (Big Boy Records, before going to Jive), etc....

Cash Money was able to do well in their negotiation with Universal, because they were running a successful business prior to their negotiation.

I didn't say "Every band I know got a distribution deal they liked". All of my childhood friends that made records pretty much released indi records and started out without major label distribution via one stops and wholesalers.

Making money from moving independent units was much easier prior to radio consolidation in the 90s. If you had play on a hand full of stations, you could do shows and make a living between shows/record sales. Over time, between your street promo, your shows, and your radio play, you'd move into other markets.

Yes, most of my friends made records and were pretty successful. We wern't getting filthy rich, but we were all making a living. Also, it was a different time as far as networking went. There was a time here when if you needed a certain piece of gear, someone just loaned it to you. We were all connected as a small community of people who made music and knew each other. We weren't in a hurry to sign with majors. Our goal was to make more money to invest in new projects.
How are you so thoroughly missing the point? You seriously don't see the massive difference?
Old 24th April 2018
  #296
Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
Older artists losing cultural relevancy and moving from majors to smaller labels over time? What a completely new phenomenon to the biz. 42 year olds used to dominate with the 14-25 year old primary record-buying demographic before modern times lol.
Mase is under contract with Badbay records and sean combs doesnt want to release him. Thats what it is.

And thats after what....15 years without an album preaching as a pastor...

Fawk your business. They can sawk each others balls if they feel its still relevant, that wont stop me from pointing them as little ball suckers whining over new structure. And why the hell would I feel bad about knowing that a rapist is being raped anyways ?
Old 24th April 2018
  #297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
How are you so thoroughly missing the point? You seriously don't see the massive difference?
What point have I missed?

I'm talking about how we successfully made indi records without majors. You're quoting my post directed to someone else.

What point have I missed?

Last edited by IM WHO YOU THINK; 24th April 2018 at 07:12 PM..
Old 24th April 2018
  #298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IM WHO YOU THINK View Post
What point have I missed?

I'm talking about how we successfully made indi records without majors. You're quoting my post directed to someone else.

What point have I missed?
This part of the conversation has been about the changes brought about by instant, zero/low cost, non-physical, worldwide distribution for anyone with internet access.

You seem to be arguing that there's little to no change here because everyone could easily get distro back in the day. Perhaps I'm reading you wrong though.
Old 24th April 2018
  #299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
This part of the conversation has been about the changes brought about by instant, zero/low cost, non-physical, worldwide distribution for anyone with internet access.

You seem to be arguing that there's little to no change here because everyone could easily get distro back in the day. Perhaps I'm reading you wrong though.

I'm arguing that instant zero/low cost , non phisical worldwide distribution for anyone with internet access doesn't auto translate to more money. The distribution has opened up, and monetarily, the pie has become smaller simultaneously. One could argue that as a result, there's more opportunity for the artist since an artist can own a bigger piece of what is a smaller pie, but still at margin have more than they would have had. I'm saying that it doesn't seem like more to me. I don't see as many people actually making a living as before. Sure I see more people have music, but most I know have come to the general conclusion that the actual sale of music isn't where they'll make their dough. (That's always been the case for a major label artist, but indis were healthy from record sales if they moved units). I see more people talking about it, but I don't know many people who are making more money than before. And it's not because of a paradigm shift, it's because people are making less.

Under the old model, I saw more people making money. (Then came the consolidation of radio and it was sort of the beginning of the downtrend).

Along with the monetary changes came major studios closing and the overall health of the industry changing. Hopefully it's temporary and will reverse. I'm not betting on it as a betting man.

I think the quality of recorded music has dipped during the time of this paradigm shift. Hopefully I'm wrong and we'll see a recovery. It seems like music means less to people than it used to, and that's a dangerous thing IMO.

Essentially, non physical distribution is cool, but it's also comes with me having free access to just about anything that's released. Killing off the product in favor of wider distribution isn't really a healthy formula IMO.
Old 24th April 2018
  #300
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
I don't know of a recent equal.
check out Humble video, think about similar qualities to Trump speech

brash, boast, mysogynist, threat, curse, savior, racist

Last edited by aracu; 24th April 2018 at 08:42 PM..
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