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Is a musician always an artist? Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 19th January 2017
  #421
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thehightenor View Post
We had moved on from the literal into the lost world of semantics :-)

Sure we're all artists .... few are what I call an "Artist" capital "A"

.... I was using this thread as a destraction from facing the work I currently have stacked in front of me.

Now I have no excuse but to get back to work
Yes, now that the question has finally been defined back to where it was at the start, all we're still left with is figuring out the answer....and the thread dies.....

Meanwhile, poor old Coldplay, those musicians with a subjectively small a, are touring around the world, releasing new music, up for a bunch of awards....
Old 19th January 2017
  #422
After having participated in different fields for so long, I've come to look at art - not so much as a thing - but a state of being that one slips into, and out of.

I've never particularly cared to refer to myself as an 'artist' nor a 'musician' and have gone to extremes to distance myself from such labelling.
Old 20th January 2017
  #423
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“God is really only another artist. He invented the giraffe, the elephant, and the cat. He has no real style. He just keeps on trying other things.” – Pablo Picasso
Old 20th January 2017
  #424
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny nowhere View Post


I've never particularly cared to refer to myself as an 'artist' nor a 'musician' and have gone to extremes to distance myself from such labelling.
Most people just don't care.
I don't care if anyone calls me a musician, or I call myself one.
It has very little significance. I live and die by the music I make. Doing that takes up 90% of my brain. Worrying about the label 'artist'... or having to distance oneself just doesn't have to occupy any of my brain.
Old 20th January 2017
  #425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Most people just don't care.
I don't care if anyone calls me a musician, or I call myself one.
It has very little significance. I live and die by the music I make. Doing that takes up 90% of my brain. Worrying about the label 'artist'... or having to distance oneself just doesn't have to occupy any of my brain.
I actually really enjoyed this thread, there was some great contributions from some very eloquent members.
I like the way the use and meaning of language got challenged.

After all it is the Gear Free Zone - "Shoot the Breeze"

.... I think most peoples "aim on the Breeze" was pretty good :-)

As Piccaso said,

"True happiness is to squander your time in a manner of your own choosing"


Last edited by thehightenor; 20th January 2017 at 12:25 PM..
Old 20th January 2017
  #426
Yeah, the thread is chat and opinion. I get it.
My opinion is that labels like 'artist' and 'musician' are just convenient descriptions.
What I don't get is people being uptight about them. In the end, it's what you do that counts, not what other people label you.
Old 20th January 2017
  #427
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
What I don't get is people being uptight about them. In the end, it's what you do that counts, not what other people label you.
I think you're absolutely right.

Though, it's hard to get away from labels because a) it's a form of communication, and b) there is in society and culture both a need and tendency to compartmentalize, categorize, characterize...ostensibly stereotype things, whatever things, anything, everything.

I think among the bad aspects are if those labels define people in such ways that it limits or stifles their potential in any way, because people tend to believe what is said about them, live down to expectations or strictly to expectations...and, also if labels don't adequately describe outliers within our classification mechanisms, and deprives deserved appreciation or recognition.
Old 20th January 2017
  #428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thehightenor View Post
As Piccaso said,

"True happiness is to squander your time in a manner of your own choosing"

From Tarantino's Jackie Brown, a quaint little exchange between the Samuel L Jackson and Bridget Fonda characters.

Ordell Robbie: Goddamn girl, you gettin' high already? It's just 2 o'clock!
Melanie: [chuckling] It's that late?
Ordell Robbie: You know you smoke too much of that ****, that **** gonna rob you of your own ambition.
Melanie: Not if your ambition is to get high and watch TV...

Unfortunately, for me, been there, done that, embarrassingly much too much.
Old 20th January 2017
  #429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
From Tarantino's Jackie Brown, a quaint little exchange between the Samuel L Jackson and Bridget Fonda characters.

Ordell Robbie: Goddamn girl, you gettin' high already? It's just 2 o'clock!
Melanie: [chuckling] It's that late?
Ordell Robbie: You know you smoke too much of that ****, that **** gonna rob you of your own ambition.
Melanie: Not if your ambition is to get high and watch TV...

Unfortunately, for me, been there, done that, embarrassingly much too much.
A little down time is OK :-)

What always amuses me is how people like to project.

Let's say someone has a thread about the differences for example, between a Neve 1073 pre amp from 1972 vs one from 1974.

The thread goes deep with references to various transformer metals or 600 ohm capacitors vs 650 ohm capacitors on the 12K pot etc etc etc.

People geek out and enjoy chatting about differences other people don't give a sh*t about. To them it's not only time well spent waxing lyrical on their favorite subjects, but often they learn something new - important to them.

.... and then one of those people turn up on the thread, you know I call them
"the thread kill joy"

They're there to tell the posters on that thread, that they should stop wasting their time about pointless details (pointless to them!) and just "get on with the music and stop wasting time"

Boom ..... projection.

I try where possible to live and let live, and try not to project (of course I often fail) but I try to stay aware of that most annoying fault.

Where possible I respect others peoples choice of how they wish to squander their 35,000 days on earth :-)
Old 20th January 2017
  #430
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehightenor View Post
Where possible I respect others peoples choice of how they wish to squander their 35,000 days on earth :-)
So where is your respect for the "kill joys?" They would appear to be supporting your notion that we should not squander our time ...

We are all projecting anyway. None of us really knows how another person feels or why they are doing what they are doing.

And as for micro-analysing gear ... I've gone down that path. And of course, even between exact same models of the same gear, there will be differences. And it takes good ears to hear the differences.

But I would say that it doesn't matter. Twist some eq or compressor knobs, and all the micro differences are blasted into insignficance with major macro differenes.

In any given situation - IF you have multiple choices of equipment and IF - you have the time to audition them then you may as well use the one that sounds best to your ears at the time. Otherwise, just use what you've got and make it sound good.

I've got cheap gear that I thought was rubbish and got more expensive gear that would be "better". Then sometimes I realise that the cheap gear - for all it's faults - did something to the sound that the expensive gear cannot do. Thinking of Mackie mixers (distortion boxes) and other stuff.

Better is always context specific.

There I go projecting.

Cheers,
Kill Joy
Old 20th January 2017
  #431
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Quote:
So where is your respect for the "kill joys?" They would appear to be supporting your notion that we should not squander our time ...
Huh.

Did you even read my post.

Where did I say "they should not squander their time"

I said THE complete opposite!

I even quoted Piccaso earlier,

"True happiness is to squander your time in a manner of your own choosing"

but you didn't see that post did you ..... Kill Joy :-)

.... actually your reply to my post is just classic really .... you seemed to take it all to heart .... I was only poking a bit of fun. I have days when I can't stand talking about gear and just get on with music .... can I say that on GS :-)

Last edited by thehightenor; 20th January 2017 at 11:54 PM..
Old 20th January 2017
  #432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thehightenor View Post
Where possible I respect others peoples choice of how they wish to squander their 35,000 days on earth :-)
That's a very optimistic and generous projection there, ~95 years?

I'm gonna actually surpass that myself by a good margin (I'd say by at least a couple of hundred days or more, I've been planning it for awhile by giving up cigarettes and cutting down on the booze - you gotta sacrifice certain things to gain others you know), but I don't have the same confidence that many others will...
Old 20th January 2017
  #433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
That's a very optimistic and generous projection there, ~95 years?

I'm gonna actually surpass that myself by a good margin (I'd say by at least a couple of hundred days or more, I've been planning it for awhile by giving up cigarettes and cutting down on the booze - you gotta sacrifice certain things to gain others you know), but I don't have the same confidence that many others will...
Yes I started with 30,000 days (the usual figure I see quoted) and then thought, wait these are my online forum friends I want to imagine them living much longer so I went for 35,000 days.

Yoga is the secret.

Or is it Yogurt .... I can't remember.
Old 21st January 2017
  #434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thehightenor View Post
Yoga is the secret.

Or is it Yogurt .... I can't remember.
Yoga couldn't hurt...but I'd say a routine of 1/2 cardio/aerobic with 1/2 resistance exercises, at least 5 days a week, minimum 1 hr, better if 2. It'll be the only way to maintain muscle mass...and don't forget the protein!

Only eat what you cook, nothing processed, and yogurt is good, but so is bone broth, sauerkraut, kimchee, anything pickled, anything with beneficial probiotic effects - it's essential to keep the gut flora in tip top shape.
Old 21st January 2017
  #435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
Yoga couldn't hurt...but I'd say a routine of 1/2 cardio/aerobic with 1/2 resistance exercises, at least 5 days a week, minimum 1 hr, better if 2. It'll be the only way to maintain muscle mass...and don't forget the protein!

Only eat what you cook, nothing processed, and yogurt is good, but so is bone broth, sauerkraut, kimchee, anything pickled, anything with beneficial probiotic effects - it's essential to keep the gut flora in tip top shape.
Cool!

Some good advice there
Old 21st January 2017
  #436
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehightenor View Post
Huh.

Did you even read my post.

Where did I say "they should not squander their time"

I said THE complete opposite!

I even quoted Piccaso earlier,

"True happiness is to squander your time in a manner of your own choosing"

but you didn't see that post did you ..... Kill Joy :-)

.... actually your reply to my post is just classic really .... you seemed to take it all to heart .... I was only poking a bit of fun. I have days when I can't stand talking about gear and just get on with music .... can I say that on GS :-)
Of course I did not read your earier post - what would be the fun in that? I chose to squander my time doing something else.

But as long as you are on the side of squandering time any way we choose, I'm all in.

And NO - you can't say that! This is GEARslutz man - not MUSICslutz. No way should you squander your time on anything that is not GEAR related.

It's all in the fingers anyway (... I saw that ...)
Old 21st January 2017
  #437
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehightenor View Post
.... and then one of those people turn up on the thread, you know I call them
"the thread kill joy"

They're there to tell the posters on that thread, that they should stop wasting their time about pointless details (pointless to them!) and just "get on with the music and stop wasting time"

Boom ..... projection.
But I'm just expressing my opinion on the subject. That's what the OP invited right?
Because my opinion doesn't chime with yours I'm a 'killjoy', ruining the thread.
My opinion is that there are labels, often created by commentators not the people being labeled.
As a musician, I can't waste my time worrying about the labels 'projected' on to me by music critics. I'm labeled a rock drummer as it happens. My favourite music is funk, dance, jazz. Well, I've just had to live with it, get on with it. I never get asked to play on a funk or dance project because I've been labeled a 'rock drummer' by people who have heard me, but do not know me.
It's all just (fairly arbitrary labels).
My OPINION is that if you get too bound up in other people's labels, it is bad for your creativity and your psyche. That's just my opinion.
I guess though what sort of annoyed me on page one, is that the OP is inviting a prejudice - a delineation between 'good' and 'bad'. Using the label 'artist' to make a judgement between artists they admire and those they don't. The artists they don't admire shouldn't be labeled Artists (capital A).
'Artist' with a capital A is seen as more valuable than artist - the label given to any musician or creative person.
And sure enough, the usual suspects came out and we had three pages of musical snobbery about Artists, technique, crafts people, fusion, jazz, pap/pop etc.. etc...
It's the same thing that's been discussed by the same people on a dozen threads before.
That's fine - discuss away.
But I usually join in on those threads briefly to say music is music - you either like it or you don't.
Old 21st January 2017
  #438
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The chief enemy of creativity is good taste
-Pablo Picasso
Old 21st January 2017
  #439
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starsoul707 View Post
The chief enemy of creativity is good taste
-Pablo Picasso
Well that's me scr*wed then!
Old 21st January 2017
  #440
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehightenor View Post
Well that's me scr*wed then!
Not necessarily. Just your listeners.
Old 21st January 2017
  #441
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi View Post
Not necessarily. Just your listeners.
Old 21st January 2017
  #442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starsoul707 View Post
The chief enemy of creativity is good taste
-Pablo Picasso
Sorry Charlie. Starkist doesn't want tuna with great taste, Starkist wants tuna that tastes great!
-bullsh$t ad agency
Old 21st January 2017
  #443
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Yeah, the thread is chat and opinion. I get it.
My opinion is that labels like 'artist' and 'musician' are just convenient descriptions.
What I don't get is people being uptight about them. In the end, it's what you do that counts, not what other people label you.
I have no disagreement here. Only that I feel that these descriptions are somewhat vague. For instance, I know really good musicians, I've just never thought of myself as one. In other words, in my way of thinking, a musician is someone who is proficient at music - i.e. reading and writing it. I can't read music for squat. To me, referring to myself as a musician would not be unlike someone who was illiterate referring to themselves as a writer.

I've just always considered myself a songwriter.
Old 21st January 2017
  #444
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny nowhere View Post
I have no disagreement here. Only that I feel that these descriptions are somewhat vague. For instance, I know really good musicians, I've just never thought of myself as one. In other words, in my way of thinking, a musician is someone who is proficient at music - i.e. reading and writing it. I can't read music for squat. To me, referring to myself as a musician would not be unlike someone who was illiterate referring to themselves as a writer.

I've just always considered myself a songwriter.
Don't sell yourself short as a musician just because you can't read Western music notation.

I've met many incredible musicians who couldn't read music, as is the case with recent modern music history, sprinkled with many notable examples.
Old 21st January 2017
  #445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny nowhere View Post
I have no disagreement here. Only that I feel that these descriptions are somewhat vague. For instance, I know really good musicians, I've just never thought of myself as one. In other words, in my way of thinking, a musician is someone who is proficient at music - i.e. reading and writing it. I can't read music for squat. To me, referring to myself as a musician would not be unlike someone who was illiterate referring to themselves as a writer.

I've just always considered myself a songwriter.
Being a songwriter that can connect with other people is a great gift.

For me the benefit of being formally trained has simply been it has allowed me to make my living as a jobbing musician, because it has allowed me to do sight reading jobs, teaching, arranging, orchestration, transcription .... and get paid enough to get married, buy a house, raise two kids and a dog and not have to get a 9 to 5 job.

Like any training, be it a pilot or a vet, it allows you to do certain types of work that require a certain skill set and fortunately that type of work pays reasonably well.

My dream as a young lad was to be an "Artist" and "make it" but I'm sure glad my parents had the vision to see that was like buying a lottery ticket and if I wanted to still be a professional musican at 53 (as I am) then sight reading and formal skills would help in that goal.

I'm much rather of been the drummer in U2 or Sting :-)
Old 21st January 2017
  #446
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
But I'm just expressing my opinion on the subject. That's what the OP invited right?
Because my opinion doesn't chime with yours I'm a 'killjoy', ruining the thread.
My opinion is that there are labels, often created by commentators not the people being labeled.
As a musician, I can't waste my time worrying about the labels 'projected' on to me by music critics. I'm labeled a rock drummer as it happens. My favourite music is funk, dance, jazz. Well, I've just had to live with it, get on with it. I never get asked to play on a funk or dance project because I've been labeled a 'rock drummer' by people who have heard me, but do not know me.
It's all just (fairly arbitrary labels).
My OPINION is that if you get too bound up in other people's labels, it is bad for your creativity and your psyche. That's just my opinion.
I guess though what sort of annoyed me on page one, is that the OP is inviting a prejudice - a delineation between 'good' and 'bad'. Using the label 'artist' to make a judgement between artists they admire and those they don't. The artists they don't admire shouldn't be labeled Artists (capital A).
'Artist' with a capital A is seen as more valuable than artist - the label given to any musician or creative person.
And sure enough, the usual suspects came out and we had three pages of musical snobbery about Artists, technique, crafts people, fusion, jazz, pap/pop etc.. etc...
It's the same thing that's been discussed by the same people on a dozen threads before.
That's fine - discuss away.
But I usually join in on those threads briefly to say music is music - you either like it or you don't.
Hey Chrisso, I was only having a bit of fun, of course your opinion is just as welcome and valid as anyone else's.

You can p**s on my parade any time you want

Actually I never had you labelled as a Rock drummer - just a great drummer!

Old 21st January 2017
  #447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thehightenor View Post
You can p**s on my parade any time you want
You just got R Kelly all hot and bothered.
Old 21st January 2017
  #448
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
You just got R Kelly all hot and bothered.
Old 22nd January 2017
  #449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thehightenor View Post
Being a songwriter that can connect with other people is a great gift.

For me the benefit of being formally trained has simply been it has allowed me to make my living as a jobbing musician, because it has allowed me to do sight reading jobs, teaching, arranging, orchestration, transcription .... and get paid enough to get married, buy a house, raise two kids and a dog and not have to get a 9 to 5 job.

Like any training, be it a pilot or a vet, it allows you to do certain types of work that require a certain skill set and fortunately that type of work pays reasonably well.

My dream as a young lad was to be an "Artist" and "make it" but I'm sure glad my parents had the vision to see that was like buying a lottery ticket and if I wanted to still be a professional musican at 53 (as I am) then sight reading and formal skills would help in that goal.

I'm much rather of been the drummer in U2 or Sting :-)
There is the notion that formal training kills the Artist in people. Don't know if that's really true overall, but that does seem to be the way it's been in recent times.
Old 22nd January 2017
  #450
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehightenor View Post
Actually I never had you labelled as a Rock drummer - just a great drummer!

Very, very kind.
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