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why do people care if gear is made in China?
Old 3rd November 2016
  #31
So there's a couple sides to this.

Yes, American cars historically have been dogs, but let's not pretend like European cars are somehow better. Rolls Royce/Jaguar: it's not a problem, it's character. I've owned 3 Volkswagens and while they're well engineered for certain things, the electrical systems are problematic. FIAT stands for "Fix It Again, Tony"

Yugos were especially bad. Renault or Citroen (whichever the French Nationalized one is) once made a car where you had to remove the engine to replace the oil.

My japanese car was made in mexico. Very few cars are still made in japan.

Also, we should all remember that scene from Back To The Future where the camcorder quits working "Made in Japan, that explains it." "What are you talking about? Japan makes all the best stuff!" The comment about N Korea being next is on the right track, but my prediction is Vietnam, as evidenced by the country of origin on my Korg Volcas.

China's not that much cheaper to manufacture in anymore. You only save about $.02/dollar manufacturing there these days once you factor in the additional costs of shipping, dealing with a communist government etc. This is just how globalization goes. China's going to be in some serious trouble here soon as their workers demand higher and higher wages to keep up with the increased standard of living and the inflation that comes along with that. Eventually, somewhere else will become the manufacturing hub and China will have to innovate and their economy will have to shift towards something like back office services or something.

The real reason to not manufacture in china is their uniquely lax intellectual property laws. If you send them the specs to make something for you, I can almost guarantee that there'll soon pop up an identical product on the market with a different name brand on it. See: Mackie/Behringer. This is not a unique situation. If you look at the history of the Wah Wah pedal, once they started manufacturing in Italy (the China of the 1960s) all sorts of copycat boxes started showing up.
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Old 4th November 2016
  #32
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mikefellh's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by donsolo View Post
Yes, American cars historically have been dogs, but let's not pretend like European cars are somehow better. Rolls Royce/Jaguar: it's not a problem, it's character.
American cars (at least mine) have been very good...'87 Pontiac 6000, had it until 2002, Buick Century, had it from 2002-2016, and now a Buick Verona.

I remember an ad for Jaguar a few years ago when they were so bad and they introduced a new one, "We kept what you like, the rest is history."
Old 4th November 2016
  #33
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikefellh View Post
American cars (at least mine) have been very good...'87 Pontiac 6000, had it until 2002, Buick Century, had it from 2002-2016, and now a Buick Verona.

I remember an ad for Jaguar a few years ago when they were so bad and they introduced a new one, "We kept what you like, the rest is history."
How many times did you have to rebuild the motor on that Pontiac?

No transmission problems on the Buick? That's a pretty common repair on that era, same with the Honda Oddessy.
Old 4th November 2016
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donsolo View Post
How many times did you have to rebuild the motor on that Pontiac?

No transmission problems on the Buick? That's a pretty common repair on that era, same with the Honda Oddessy.
The worst problem I had with the Pontiac (besides rust living in Ontario where they put salt on the roads) was an issue early on where as soon as you took your foot off the brake and before you put it on the gas it would almost stall...they just replaced a chip and after that it ran perfectly.

Didn't have any transmission (or other big) problems with the Buick Century, except one time the circuit that received signals from the fob stopped working; that was a mess because they had to take off most of the dash to get to the receiver (guess they figured it would never die so it was buried).

My cars are well maintained and not abused.
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Old 5th November 2016
  #35
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Yugo? I remember when Cadillac gave them away if you bought one!

Haven't read everything, but there is really no such thing as "murican" these days. Many "foreign" models built here obviously are not designed here. And "murican????"

Made in Mexico and Canada many times

Again, thanks NAFTA! Paint cans are well represented though

(I'm actually crying, not laughing)
Old 5th November 2016
  #36
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When talking about microphones, the good stuff is manufactured in Germany, Sweden, and Latvia.
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Old 5th November 2016
  #37
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Hi
Technically you can make anything of any quality anywhere, it is all down to quality control, assuming the original design and specification is correct.
Matt S
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Old 5th November 2016
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elegentdrum View Post
When talking about microphones, the good stuff is manufactured in Germany, Sweden, and Latvia.
nonsensical
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Old 5th November 2016
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Syson View Post
Hi
Technically you can make anything of any quality anywhere, it is all down to quality control, assuming the original design and specification is correct.
Matt S
sensible
Old 6th November 2016
  #40
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DougS's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by donsolo View Post
How many times did you have to rebuild the motor on that Pontiac?
Looks like they just drove this Pontiac over from China:


If I had to guess I would say it looks like a '64 Bonneville on a Pacific-side beach in Baja.

Last edited by DougS; 6th November 2016 at 05:10 PM..
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Old 6th November 2016
  #41
Ouch! That rust bucket has seen better days.
Old 6th November 2016
  #42
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Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by donsolo View Post
The real reason to not manufacture in china is their uniquely lax intellectual property laws. If you send them the specs to make something for you, I can almost guarantee that there'll soon pop up an identical product on the market with a different name brand on it. See: Mackie/Behringer.
That's one of the real reasons. See also: Fake SM57.

On the other hand, the same thing happened in Japan in the late 70's and early 80's. See also: Tokai Springy Sound, Tokai Hard Puncher, Tokai Jazz Sound, Ibanez Challenger...
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Old 6th November 2016
  #43
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The issue I've always had with China is their government's non-response to blatantly copying everyone else's stuff and just releasing it as their own. Then again, it also gives outside countries a good reason to not outsource their production to China, as it's significantly more difficult for them to copy stuff when they don't already have the molds/designs/etc.

I've bought a lot of crap from China, and a few good things. I'm well aware that they can make quality products when they want to. If I buy anything considerable with a "made in china" tag on it, I do my research and see if it's one of the good products or just crap. I've bought a few chinese mics that were pretty decent.

Meanwhile, with tools, I almost always avoid chinese products. Take harbor freight, for example. Their made in china tools are almost ALWAYS junk. Their "Pro" line, however, is usually made in Taiwan and actually pretty decent quality. I've used a lot of those tools professionally over many years (40-80 hours a week) and had few failures. Even the torque wrench I got was not only built decently, but was able to be easily calibrated, held it's calibration for a year, and was calibrated pretty damn good straight from the factory. Can't complain for $20...
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Old 9th November 2016
  #44
Gear Nut
 

For example I have 3 x 32" flat screens in my studio I bought around 2008, all made in China and used around 10-15 hours every day for these years. I never had a single problem with any of them and they still look and work like new. Even those gear branded as other countries, I am sure if I look into most of the gear most at least have some parts made from China. It is about quality control and if a company doesnt oversee manufacturing or field test their equipment before selling it to people, well whos fault is it if it has problems? Also important for consumer to buying from reputable dealers who have solid return policy for any gear regardless of what country is listed on it. Every country makes some good and some bad and some fake product. Singling out only China is dumb.
Old 9th November 2016
  #45
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So can someone mention some good gear that is made in Asia?

I have a Focusrite ISA 2 preamp which is as good a preamp as any out there and I believe it was made in China but can't really think of any others.
Old 9th November 2016
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by attaboy_jhb View Post
So can someone mention some good gear that is made in Asia?
Sony C-800G | Sweetwater.com

Old 9th November 2016
  #47
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Personally and I'm willing to except I'm wrong, I think if I save up £5K and buy a USA hand made 1176 and LA2A I will get a product that will sound better and last much, much longer than say a Warm Audio equivilant.

I have a USA boutique hand made Retro STA Level and it really is a work of art and I fully expect it to last 50 years and go up in value (it already has!)

If I were to buy a Warm Audio WA2A I will expect it to last 5 years and be worth half that if I sell it.

As I say, I could be wrong, but that's my own personal perception.

Prehaps it's hand built vs mass produced rather than the location of were a product is made.
I would happily buy boutique hand made Chinese audio gear .... is there any?
Old 9th November 2016
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by u47u67u87 View Post
Jayzus that is expensive

ok let me resend my request

can anyone name some gear that is made in china or similar countries that is within a price that is accessible to mortal human beings or that is manufactured on behalf of a EU or US manufacturer
Old 9th November 2016
  #49
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by the way, after I wrote the above post I went and played my Filipino made G&L bass guitar which in NO WAY sounds at all inferior to my USA fender I sold last year.

Just thought it was relevant here
Old 9th November 2016
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joeywhat View Post
The issue I've always had with China is their government's non-response to blatantly copying everyone else's stuff and just releasing it as their own. Then again, it also gives outside countries a good reason to not outsource their production to China, as it's significantly more difficult for them to copy stuff when they don't already have the molds/designs/etc.

I've bought a lot of crap from China, and a few good things. I'm well aware that they can make quality products when they want to. If I buy anything considerable with a "made in china" tag on it, I do my research and see if it's one of the good products or just crap. I've bought a few chinese mics that were pretty decent.
.
I had a tube amp made in china came in to me from a diy person. he bought the kit off of an auction site and assembled it and it sounded horrible. I replaced about 90% of the parts in the brand new Chinese amp then it actually had a good sound.

A few months ago I went over to my machinist place and he had two toy guns torn apart. He told me one was made by the original designer here in America that he made the plastic mold. The other one in china. He told me they duplicated everything. Including the flaw he had machined in the original design's plastic mold.
Old 9th November 2016
  #51
Gear Nut
 

You guys can have all the cheap Chinese junk - I don't want it. Americans have lots of experience with Chinese products, because almost everything we purchase at Costco or Walmart is made in China. It looks good at first, but it all falls apart within a year or two and ends up in a landfill.

I was born in the USA. Life is too short to use cheap low quality instruments and studio gear. Made in America Gibsons, Fenders, and Martins are the finest instruments in the world and the only ones I will play. There is a fantastic array of high quality microphones and outboard gear made in the USA. German and Austrian engineering is excellent, and Neumann, AKG, and RME products are very welcome in my studio. I am happy to pay for quality.

I bought a VOX handwired AC15 that was made in Vietnam, and it is already falling apart after only three years. Big mistake. I need to get rid of that piece of junk and buy a nice boutique American made amp.

I had a Ford F150 rock and roll van for many years, than a Ford Escape, and now a Ford CMAX assembled in Detroit. All excellent cars that never had any major problems. Lots of great American products that I am happy to use and support.
Old 9th November 2016
  #52
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by attaboy_jhb View Post
So can someone mention some good gear that is made in Asia?
Around here...

Several dbx compressors made in various Asian countries, all very good.

Single-driver near field monitors made with Fostex drivers. Fantastic.

Yamaha 01V. Not exactly God's gift to audio, but a routing marvel and a ton of i/o in a tiny footprint. With 2 SPX-type fx boxes built in!

M-Audio DigiPatch spdif/optical router. No longer as essential now that I'm all-ITB, but 15 years old and still in perfect shape and useful.

(3) Tascam CD burner/players. Probably 12 or 13 years old, haven't burned a CD on them in years, but still working perfectly.

A first-generation Yamaha Motif ES-6. Maybe 10 years old, I use it almost every day, good as new.

A no-name nylon string guitar, a Korean ukulele, an Ibanez steel-string acoustic and an Ibanez bass. I probably paid less than $500 for the whole lot. All excellent recording instruments.

A Vox AC15-C1 and a Vox Pathfinder 10. The AC15 is admittedly not quite a vintage British handwired AC30, but it's really close. And the little Pathfinder is really good for chimey-type stuff.
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Old 18th November 2016
  #53
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Stuff from the orient is very questionable. Most have low quality control. The only exception to this is when the Japanese get involved but they rarely do anything with the Chinese. So Chinese is still out of the picture.
Old 18th November 2016
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Workingman View Post
You guys can have all the cheap Chinese junk - I don't want it. Americans have lots of experience with Chinese products, because almost everything we purchase at Costco or Walmart is made in China. It looks good at first, but it all falls apart within a year or two and ends up in a landfill.

I was born in the USA. Life is too short to use cheap low quality instruments and studio gear. Made in America Gibsons, Fenders, and Martins are the finest instruments in the world and the only ones I will play. There is a fantastic array of high quality microphones and outboard gear made in the USA. German and Austrian engineering is excellent, and Neumann, AKG, and RME products are very welcome in my studio. I am happy to pay for quality.

I bought a VOX handwired AC15 that was made in Vietnam, and it is already falling apart after only three years. Big mistake. I need to get rid of that piece of junk and buy a nice boutique American made amp.

I had a Ford F150 rock and roll van for many years, than a Ford Escape, and now a Ford CMAX assembled in Detroit. All excellent cars that never had any major problems. Lots of great American products that I am happy to use and support.
I hope you're joking. The device you are using to post this stuff with is probably made to a higher spec than your 'Murican Gibsons' and is made in China.

The problem isn't China or w/e, it's the company and their quality control.
Old 18th November 2016
  #55
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DougS's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exquiza View Post
The problem isn't China or w/e, it's the company and their quality control.
Agreed. Its all about the company contracting the work and their strategy, their design, goals and QC.

Below, Aspen Pittman talking about his GrooveTube VipRre Preamp. One of the best preamps ever made - made in China.

Interesting video on the unit. The whole video is interesting but he specifically talks about making them in China at the end (starting at the 28:14 mark):

Old 14th January 2017
  #56
Here for the gear
 

Does anyone remember the complete distrust people used to have for products made in Japan in the 1970s? Datsun cars. Cheap, and not very good transistor radios. Then something happened. Japanese industry got much better at quality control, and started making world-class quality products.

I have a feeling that we're just on the cusp of this happening with products made in China. Already there are Chinese run companies like sE Electronics, making legitimately good, original microphones. My Vox AC-30, made in China, has no better or worse manufacture quality than my 1990s Vox AC-15 that was made in England (which frankly is not that well-made). Do you have a product recently made by Apple? Chances are it was manufactured in China.

Yes, there are many poor quality items being made in China, but as time goes by I think I'm noticing a lot more things that are really well made coming from there. I don't think that trend is going to change anytime soon.
Old 1st December 2019
  #57
Yul
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I just realized the extent of how much crap I use is made there. The quality is pretty good but that country is aiming to dominate the world in a not so friendly way in the future. I have been looking at alternatives but it's quite deep and scary.

Heck the Korg Prologue is an example made in Japan Which still has much of it's components made in China but still a good step forward.

I am just thinking about the future not only for the planet but for society.
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