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Guitar strings + frequencies confused ..
Old 21st February 2016
  #1
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Bandeeet's Avatar
Guitar strings + frequencies confused ..

Midi ? how midi works

Old----
Any explanation about this will appreciated
From E (330) To A (440) the frequencies change between jumps of 1 & 2
as 2-1-1-2 a jump of 19,21,22,23,25, as 19 is from E to F and 25 is from G# to A
already wondering why is like that
From there it continues 26,28,29,31,33,35,37,39,42?,44
that is From A 440 to A 880 from F to F# (2nd octave) is a frequencie diffrence of 3 from last step's
as for the first octave is a diffrence of 1 betweern them
strange is it supposed to be like this , or as close as possibly can to equal frequencie ? , do equal frequencie sounds good ? ,
example of a frequencie that would start from 5.15625 and multiply , it will reach 330 (E)
so why is this base frequencie not a simpler one .. what am i missing here ?
whats wrong with this caculations , why is it not a more simple base frequencie ? ,,
like 4 as i double it in octaves i see no use of it on the guitar neck ,, i wonder how 512 sounds like ,
are we nameing frequencies ?? or giveing A-G frequencies ?
what are A-G
i will check
A- 6.875 B-7.718 C-8..... D-. E-10.... F-10.9.. G-12...
So it looks like kind of accurate .. miss is maybe becuse of loss of data on the Page
Still .. why go up to 10
how about 16 32 64 128 256 512 128-256(128)-18(110. 110(18) A- A#-B-C-C#-D-D#-E-F-F#-G-G#-A-A# 128-256=12 frets . who design the fret's distance ? it there much into it ? or its based on A , A+1oct and some even grounds on the way between them ?
A- 6.875 B-7.718 C-8..... D-. E-10.... F-10.9.. G-12...
Ill go and call A - 7
That lead up to A being 448
who are 6? 384 & 768 that is close to G 392 by 8
768 is far from G by 16
8>16 ?
who is 5 320 & 640 E is 330 &660 diffrence of 20 freq in both octaves ^ diffrent from
who is 4 ? 256&512
247 is B &494 +1oct 9>18
who 3 192,384,768&
9T-18 2,1,4-16 7-14 5-10 6-12
i will dig some more soon


Update -

borrowed pic
http://music-electronics-forum.com/a...5-fretfreq.jpg

X.2 = octave

A - 440 /2/2/2/2/2/2 = 6.785
(6) A+- 6.2.2.2.2.2...= 448
E = 330 \2\2\2\2\2... = 5.15625
(5) 320 5.2.2.2.2 = 320


if starting with 1'st fret at 80 .. opposed to 82 (E)
tuneing up on a guitar with a base number for example 5 will result a series of
5.10.20.40.80.160.320.640 as to E(82) 82.164.ect
so that creates an imbalance .. + the inaccurate of a simple guitar the resualt will be messy

if playin on compleate numbers and jumping by 5's makes thinking & understanding of your position on the guitar much much easyer

think of it like this
(___base80___)-85-90-95-100-105-110-115-120-125-130-135-140-145-150-155-(base+1__160__)

(___base82___) E)-82-87-92-98-104-110-117-123-131-139-147-156-165(E+1)

this chart of Base _82 is mathed to the point that it probably is with caculation of the guitar's neck miss
u can see it jumps by 5-6-6-6-7-6-8-...

well that seems strange to me ...
very nice that there are diffrent names for these frequencies but i still fail to see why would u caculate the miss of the guitar's neck from the beggining if u could make atleast the Base note (on the guitar) accurate

if the guitar would of started on 5 and climbed up to 82 at a point that could be becuse its not 100%
that would take alot of work
and planning if even possible
why would someone work to earn money ? (?????)
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ok yea what
frequencies yea sounds intresting ill keep checking this out


the frets on a guitar should jump by +-5(hz)


Soo they call E 330 then they call it 660
if i would like to play on E scale
what kind of logic will i need to think
6 Tones to octave ok ... 55 is the tone then 22.5 is half a tone

assumeing i would play on the guitar ... i hit E now i will check the Scale cheat for answers
http://www.all-guitar-chords.com/gui...t&t=0&choice=1
i will look here

So i will take a Major\Minor scale

lets see what this says First (M) if looking at E as the start of the scale
E(165) Then is signals a jump by a Tone to F#(185)
so.. we jumped 20hz
that is almost half a tone E (330) (as in page)
then.
From E to A seems legit 330-440 is 110 thats 2 tones from E so it should sound well with each other
(1.5 on neck)

So as there is alot of tought goin into the mess thats on the neck of the guitar .. sounds do meet inside there
but still strange ... and the way its taught is to confusing ...

its so complex its completly blocking the flow of the play
if you are not master in the scales of the neck

in my eyes i tried playin with it .. thinking about what im playin is impossible --> tryin to learn positions --> tryin to remember where its "ok" to play ---> fts
Old 22nd February 2016
  #3
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Bandeeet's Avatar
Whats the idea of playing NOTES in a DAW

if this is about diffrent Pitch from diffrent instruments

Old 22nd February 2016
  #4
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Red Black's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandeeet View Post
Whats the idea of playing NOTES in a DAW

if this is about diffrent Pitch from diffrent instruments

Can it not be about both?
Old 22nd February 2016
  #5
Gear Nut
 

You use MIDI for controlling virtual instruments, synthesizers, stuff like that...
Your guitar has nothing to do with it.
Old 22nd February 2016
  #6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandeeet View Post
Midi ? how midi works
What happened to your original rambling discourse?

It was much more colorful and provocative.
Old 22nd February 2016
  #7
There was not enough information included in the question for me to formulate a suitable answer.

I was thinking surely there was more to follow...
Old 22nd February 2016
  #8
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Bandeeet's Avatar
i am tryin to figure this out i will update ...

but what that lead me to understand that it is strange that we work with notes in the audio station and not frquencies ..

should be an option dont u think?
Old 22nd February 2016
  #9
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandeeet View Post
i am tryin to figure this out i will update ...

but what that lead me to understand that it is strange that we work with notes in the audio station and not frquencies ..

should be an option dont u think?
Why? You use notes for composing and writing down music. Notes are just different names for the frequencies. It's easier to write A instead of 110 Hz.
Old 22nd February 2016
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandeeet View Post
i am tryin to figure this out i will update ...

but what that lead me to understand that it is strange that we work with notes in the audio station and not frquencies ..

should be an option dont u think?
Ah.

[You might want to just cut to my tl;dr at the bottom of this post. I think the longish article I linked to there does a much better and more complete job than anyone can do here -- especially me. ]

With test gear and tone generation oscillators and the like that are not purposed to music production, we do, indeed, tend to talk about frequencies.

But with gear oriented to musicians, we tend to use the traditional notation system that developed from European musical tradition (even though it's rather poorly suited to microtonal music like that which arose in many other parts of the world) but, warts and all, like the polyglot English language, made up of different languages and adopting conflicting 'rules' from many of them, European 12 Tone Equal Temperament is what the world has ended up using as a common musical scale system, in part because it can be extended to some extent to describe other music -- but also because musical instruments that evolved within that tradition have found their way around the world and are in frequent use in hybrid styles -- world music, if you will -- that draw from both local traditions as well as music from around the world.


Now, if I recall your earlier post (now gone) you seemed concerned with the nonlinear correspondence between equal temperament notes and their frequencies.

A linear system would presumably have notes 'evenly spaced' by frequency: A might be 100 Hz, B 110, C 120, D 130, etc...

HOWEVER... the ear would not hear those as 'evenly spaced.'

The human ear interprets pitch more or less logarithmically. When we listen to a series of tones in combination, we tend to recognize the consonance of pitches that are twice as high as a given reference tone, double the frequency. We call those octaves. But they are not equally spaced for obvious reasons. If we arbitrarily define 'note 1' as 100 Hz, we find its first octave at 200 Hz. The next at 400, the next 800, etc. Each octave sounds 'like' the lower note only higher. (It sounds 'like' the note an octave lower because there are exactly twice as many wave cycles in the octave as its root; if you imagine those wave cycles overlaid, you see a regular pattern where the zero line crossing of the root tone all coincide with half of the zero line crossings of the octave.)



The exponential nature of octaves when measured on a linear frequency scale.


This diagram presents octaves as they appear in the sense of musical intervals, equally spaced.

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_and_mathematics



tl;dr: Here is a much better explanation than I can give: Columbia University: Music and Computers

Last edited by theblue1; 22nd February 2016 at 07:02 PM..
Old 22nd February 2016
  #11
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Bandeeet's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MauriceT View Post
Why? You use notes for composing and writing down music. Notes are just different names for the frequencies. It's easier to write A instead of 110 Hz.
Im not playing classical music

i have no need for them notes

i would like to know the Base Frequencie of my track and work according to it ..

sounds logical to me

like

Base Frequencie 7 i will work with it makeing my basses on its octaves 56,112,224, and so

and the High notes aswell will work with it

Then i could also cut it to 1/4 and create another frequencie scale to work with that is also a part of the base scale

i would think that it will make the final peice sounding good

I might be wrong

but since i fail completly to work with notes

Not that it bother me to much becuse most of the sounds i make are not sounding the note really

But
But
if i could use frequencies i would work with Math and thinking beyond just listening to if the sound is good or not

And i might make better sounds

U know ... If id like to go and Explore a Frequencie by boosting and Eq'in it down to diffrent sounds

im afraid a Note will not be as good


Last edited by Bandeeet; 22nd February 2016 at 07:08 PM.. Reason: Toughts
Old 22nd February 2016
  #12
Gear Nut
 

You wouldnt make better music by making random decisions like "and then I'll cut the frequency by 1/4". You would have to learn the rules behind what sounds good. That's called "music theory". Except people give names to frequencies, like 110 Hz is an A.

And it's much easier to say "i play an octave" instead of saying I play 110 Hz and 220 Hz. Lol.
Old 22nd February 2016
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandeeet View Post
Im not playing classical music

i have no need for them notes

i would like to know the Base Frequencie of my track and work according to it ..

sounds logical to me

like

Base Frequencie 7 i will work with it makeing my basses on its octaves 56,112,224, and so

and the High notes aswell will work with it

Then i could also cut it to 1/4 and create another frequencie scale to work with that is also a part of the base scale

i would think that it will make the final peice sounding good

I might be wrong

but since i fail completly to work with notes

Not that it bother me to much becuse most of the sounds i make are not sounding the note really

But
But
if i could use frequencies i would work with Math and thinking beyond just listening to if the sound is good or not

And i might make better sounds

i think
See if you can get anything from that article I linked to. It addresses the issues you're concerned with. For your convenience: Columbia University: Music and Computers

I suspect that once you understand the issues, a lot of the 'perverseness' (my term) of traditional music notation and theory will seem a lot less perverse. But, to be sure, it is a system which has evolved in a messy fashion and, particularly with regard to theoretic interpretations of actual music, there can be much disagreement about classification and even terms, even among highly trained professionals.
Old 22nd February 2016
  #14
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Bandeeet's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MauriceT View Post
You wouldnt make better music by making random decisions like "and then I'll cut the frequency by 1/4". You would have to learn the rules behind what sounds good. That's called "music theory". Except people give names to frequencies, like 110 Hz is an A.

And it's much easier to say "i play an octave" instead of saying I play 110 Hz and 220 Hz. Lol.
there is nothing random about it

your just messing with me

if not ... i find no reason the broken communication would make a problem in my work

it could acctually make things easier ...

like working on a track .. say that track base note started at 4

one could easily multiply that to octaves then devide it to half's or quarters

and add alot to the track

about guitar communication u might be right .. that has no effect on the end resault that would acctualy let me enjoy playing my guitar
Old 22nd February 2016
  #15
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Bandeeet's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
See if you can get anything from that article I linked to. It addresses the issues you're concerned with. For your convenience: Columbia University: Music and Computers

I suspect that once you understand the issues, a lot of the 'perverseness' (my term) of traditional music notation and theory will seem a lot less perverse. But, to be sure, it is a system which has evolved in a messy fashion and, particularly with regard to theoretic interpretations of actual music, there can be much disagreement about classification and even terms, even among highly trained professionals.

Thank you ill look into it soon ..

im not sure what u mean some words are unknown to me

what is your tought about this ..?

working in caculated frequencies ?

i do not know music theory but from what i know

it seems logical that repetitive changes in the frequencie should be on *scale*

with the *note* that u choose to play on

im not sure what scale means what i think it means is the progress of a note till it meets itself

so i would think that dividing that into equal steps will resault *fitting* sounds
as to thinking about harmonies that works with that sound

i hope i make sense
Old 22nd February 2016
  #16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandeeet View Post
there is nothing random about it

your just messing with me

if not ... i find no reason the broken communication would make a problem in my work

it could acctually make things easier ...

like working on a track .. say that track base note started at 4

one could easily multiply that to octaves then devide it to half's or quarters

and add alot to the track

about guitar communication u might be right .. that has no effect on the end resault that would acctualy let me enjoy playing my guitar
I'll assure you, no one is messing with you.

What you are wanting to do is tantamount to leaving Los Angeles and heading West to finally arrive at New York City.

There's an easier way.
Old 22nd February 2016
  #17
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Bandeeet's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny nowhere View Post
I'll assure you, no one is messing with you.

What you are wanting to do is tantamount to leaving Los Angeles and heading West to finally arrive at New York City.

There's an easier way.
i dont agree that its easier ... atleast for me
Old 22nd February 2016
  #18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandeeet View Post
Thank you ill look into it soon ..

im not sure what u mean some words are unknown to me

what is your tought about this ..?

working in caculated frequencies ?

i do not know music theory but from what i know

it seems logical that repetitive changes in the frequencie should be on *scale*

with the *note* that u choose to play on

im not sure what scale means what i think it means is the progress of a note till it meets itself

so i would think that dividing that into equal steps will resault *fitting* sounds
as to thinking about harmonies that works with that sound

i hope i make sense
Mmmm... I think you would be doing yourself a big favor to find a basic book on the science of sound (or better the basic science of sound and music), hopefully in a language you're comfortable with, and just absorb the basics.

With regard to your specific question, as long as you understand that our ears don't 'hear' pitch in a linear scale but rather in a logarithmic one (check out graphics I posted earlier) and you're comfortable with the math and with dealing with frequency values instead of as notes, there's nothing stopping you -- but I suspect if you do the background reading I suggest, you'll begin to see why we did, indeed, evolve the music theory systems we use in both the east and west. (The SE Asian Indian scale system, for instance, has much in common with the western system, but because the traditional Indian approach to harmony was so different, the notational and theoretical systems developed in very different fashion.)
Old 22nd February 2016
  #19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandeeet View Post
i dont agree that its easier ... atleast for me
If one has not traveled that path, one cannot comment on the difficulties that may or may not exist.

There is a consensus among musicians and composers alike that go back centuries, that the system of notation is the easier path.

Knowing this, might it be well worth your time to take a stroll?
Old 27th December 2019
  #20
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Boo ... Boo... No.. #93
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