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American Idol, anyone?
Old 23rd April 2007
  #331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soultrane View Post
(ps i love the look they gave sanjaya when he went over and sang with them... kind of a cross between "thanks for the face time" and "you don't belong next to us and you don't even know it...")

Quote:
Originally Posted by soultrane View Post
melinda has a degree in music and is 12 yrs older than jordin.

big 3rd, what you're hearing, and what you're defending so eloquently and passionately, is seasoning.

melinda has alot more seasoning than jordin.

but, purely vocally now, jordin can become what melinda is. i'd like to hear what melinda sounded like at 17.
Obviously Melinda has a lot more seasoning and experience than Jordin.

But I can put aside the seasoning and experience and just listen to the pure instrument of her voice. Melinda's voice is not something that comes with a music degree or with seasoning. You don't learn her voice in a classroom and the seasoning, if anything, might even work against her on Idol. Jordin's relative inexperience is appealing. But instrument to instrument, voice to voice, Melinda's voice is in another league. Melinda has a fundamental vocal talent that simply elevates her into a different league.
Quote:
Originally Posted by soultrane View Post
but melinda can NEVER be what jordin will become.

i mean, it's pretty obvious to me that when this girl gets a personal chef and trainer she's going to be one of the biggest stars in the world.
Jordin is remarkable (and in ways that Melinda is not remarkable), and Jordin may have a more spectacular career, but Jordin will never be able to sing as well as Melinda.
Old 23rd April 2007
  #332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattiMattMatt View Post


Obviously Melinda has a lot more seasoning and experience than Jordin.

But I can put aside the seasoning and experience and just listen to the pure instrument of her voice. Melinda's voice is not something that comes with a music degree or with seasoning. You don't learn her voice in a classroom and the seasoning, if anything, might even work against her on Idol. Jordin's relative inexperience is appealing. But instrument to instrument, voice to voice, Melinda's voice is in another league. Melinda has a fundamental vocal talent that simply elevates her into a different league.

Jordin is remarkable (and in ways that Melinda is not remarkable), and Jordin may have a more spectacular career, but Jordin will never be able to sing as well as Melinda.
See I don't get the distinction of "remarkable" for Jordin. IMO "remarkable" should be associated with aspects of talent...and if we are using it in this manner, there is nothing remarkable, talent-wise, about Jordin that ISN'T in Melinda. The only thing that could be labeled as remarkable on Jordin that isn't in Melinda is physical attributes. Other than that, what am I missing that you see?
Also, are you suggesting that these physical attributes are enough to send Jordin's career farther than Melinda's?...because we have already recognized that Melinda's talent and performance skills are superior.
Old 23rd April 2007
  #333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big 3rd View Post
See I don't get the distinction of "remarkable" for Jordin. IMO "remarkable" should be associated with aspects of talent...and if we are using it in this manner, there is nothing remarkable, talent-wise, about Jordin that ISN'T in Melinda. The only thing that could be labeled as remarkable on Jordin that isn't in Melinda is physical attributes. Other than that, what am I missing that you see?
Also, are you suggesting that these physical attributes are enough to send Jordin's career farther than Melinda's?...because we have already recognized that Melinda's talent and performance skills are superior.
I see two things in Jordin:

First is a remarkable ability to come across as someone without any hangups. There's absolutely no veneer, no front that she constructs as so many of them do. Her personna on stage is a clear window, and a window into someone who seems genuinely delightful. that quality of no translation, of absolute spontaneity, is a rare and wonderful quality in a performer. Or in anybody really...

Sometimes I believe that lesser talents are vaulted to greater heights due to this quality. In comparison to a Broadway-type voice, with a great recording artist, the song is a conduit to the person singing it. And sometimes the tradeoff, that they aren't quite as good a singer as someone else, is worth it if they convey to you who they are as they sing.

Second is her intensity. She's absolutely focused, remains relatively still, and just drives home the song from beginning to end with terminator intensity. The songs she sings have a compelling musical shape because the phrasing is constantly moving forward with laser beam intensity. It's almost as if all her energy is so focused and channelled into the song that any extraneous body function - moving, blinking, respiration, cell division, whatever - just stops.

Nonetheless, her voice will never compare to Melinda's. Melinda has so many colors in her voice, her timing is so impeccable, every corner of her range is not only useful but stunningly beautiful... she's a freak.
Old 24th April 2007
  #334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattiMattMatt View Post
I see two things in Jordin:

First is a remarkable ability to come across as someone without any hangups. There's absolutely no veneer, no front that she constructs as so many of them do. Her personna on stage is a clear window, and a window into someone who seems genuinely delightful. that quality of no translation, of absolute spontaneity, is a rare and wonderful quality in a performer. Or in anybody really...

Sometimes I believe that lesser talents are vaulted to greater heights due to this quality. In comparison to a Broadway-type voice, with a great recording artist, the song is a conduit to the person singing it. And sometimes the tradeoff, that they aren't quite as good a singer as someone else, is worth it if they convey to you who they are as they sing.

Second is her intensity. She's absolutely focused, remains relatively still, and just drives home the song from beginning to end with terminator intensity. The songs she sings have a compelling musical shape because the phrasing is constantly moving forward with laser beam intensity. It's almost as if all her energy is so focused and channelled into the song that any extraneous body function - moving, blinking, respiration, cell division, whatever - just stops.

Nonetheless, her voice will never compare to Melinda's. Melinda has so many colors in her voice, her timing is so impeccable, every corner of her range is not only useful but stunningly beautiful... she's a freak.
Great response. I respect your opinion. (Ya see SG, that's how you answer a damn question without instantly jumping on the defense. heh)

Now the first one I basically call "personality"...but the second one has me just a tad bit bewildered. I see this intensity as a good thing but I also see this type of focus as one that goes along with song selection and hint of technicality....whereas, Melinda doesn't have to display such concentration because she seem to take control of every performance and never let it overpower her or make her look like she needs to REALLY REALLY bring this one home because it's SO HUGE. This is where she IS a freak. She makes big songs look so easy. Also, I think you are seeing this intensity because as of late, Jordin as been doing slow ballads that DEMAND for this extreme amount of focus to show through, especially on the face. But have Jordin do the song that Melinda did a couple of weeks ago..."I'm a woman"....where you have to perform with perfect timing because of the amount of lyrics being song AND STILL HAVE TO BE BELIEVEABLE via working the crowd and having fun with it. This is what I call EXTREME intensity. See we haven't seen Jordin do these types of performances. This is why I wouldn't say that Jordin's intensity is stronger than Melinda's. But personality, I definitely agree with you on that one.
Old 24th April 2007
  #335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big 3rd View Post
Great response. I respect your opinion.
Thanks! I respect yours as well. Point well taken with your paragraph below:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big 3rd View Post
I see this intensity as a good thing but I also see this type of focus as one that goes along with song selection and hint of technicality....whereas, Melinda doesn't have to display such concentration because she seem to take control of every performance and never let it overpower her or make her look like she needs to REALLY REALLY bring this one home because it's SO HUGE. This is where she IS a freak. She makes big songs look so easy. Also, I think you are seeing this intensity because as of late, Jordin as been doing slow ballads that DEMAND for this extreme amount of focus to show through, especially on the face. But have Jordin do the song that Melinda did a couple of weeks ago..."I'm a woman"....where you have to perform with perfect timing because of the amount of lyrics being song AND STILL HAVE TO BE BELIEVEABLE via working the crowd and having fun with it. This is what I call EXTREME intensity. See we haven't seen Jordin do these types of performances. This is why I wouldn't say that Jordin's intensity is stronger than Melinda's. But personality, I definitely agree with you on that one.
"I'm a woman" was really incredible. Ray Charles-like timing. That was my favorite performance ever on American Idol.

I'm still impressed by Jordin's intensity but you're right, it's all on the ballads, week after week.
Old 24th April 2007
  #336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big 3rd View Post
Wow! Thanks for that link. I was re-blown away by that performance.
You just don't see that many people who can really belt like this.

Could you imagine a woman coming into your studio and laying that down, just like that... first take?
That is way way above the bar, even for a pro.
Old 24th April 2007
  #337
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Tony Shepperd's Avatar
The funny thing is: in this industry, I probably know 30 Melinda's.
I only know about 3 Jordin's.

Jordin's is the more rare commodity.
And if you're trying to make something and then sell it, selling something that is rare (or fewer of) will bring you more money than something that is plentiful.

I don't know about where you live, but in LA you throw a stone and you can hit a women who looks and sounds like Melinda. There are tons of BGV's who can sing like Melinda.

Labels are trying to find someone who can break out of the pack of the typical, "dime a dozen", female singers.


MMoJ
My Money's on Jordin
Old 24th April 2007
  #338
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soultrane's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd View Post
The funny thing is: in this industry, I probably know 30 Melinda's.
I only know about 3 Jordin's.

Jordin's is the more rare commodity.
And if you're trying to make something and then sell it, selling something that is rare (or fewer of) will bring you more money than something that is plentiful.

I don't know about where you live, but in LA you throw a stone and you can hit a women who looks and sounds like Melinda. There are tons of BGV's who can sing like Melinda.

Labels are trying to find someone who can break out of the pack of the typical, "dime a dozen", female singers.


MMoJ
My Money's on Jordin
you said it.

remember, every time melinda takes the stage on that show, she is the 4th best singer/entertainer on the stage, probably.
Old 24th April 2007
  #339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd View Post
The funny thing is: in this industry, I probably know 30 Melinda's.
I only know about 3 Jordin's.

Jordin's is the more rare commodity.
And if you're trying to make something and then sell it, selling something that is rare (or fewer of) will bring you more money than something that is plentiful.

I don't know about where you live, but in LA you throw a stone and you can hit a women who looks and sounds like Melinda. There are tons of BGV's who can sing like Melinda.

Labels are trying to find someone who can break out of the pack of the typical, "dime a dozen", female singers.


MMoJ
My Money's on Jordin
I think you misunderstood my post, I wasn't saying I was picking Melinda to win. I was just complimenting her on her outstanding and unique talent.
Did you actually re-watch the performance?
If I was looking for a return on my investment I agree the upside to Jordin from a "in the business" prospective is more attractive.

However the "dime a dozen" implication that you put on Melinda is totally false IMO.
I am pretty sure I've seen you around hear going on about the ultra-commonness of the use of auto-tune and vocal editing in your circles. At least you don't have to use those techniques on those 30 girls you are speaking about.

I lived and gigged in LA for a couple of years and 99% of the singers were average at best.
I actually believe that there is higher concentrations of sub-par wanna-be pro's in LA. All of the decent, and not-so-decent-delusional singers are flocking there for their shot.

But of course the 1% that is the exception are some of the greatest singers in the world.
You and your facility are skilled and successful enough to work with that 1%.
However outside of that I have been a gigging musician my whole life, I still currently gig in NY, Boston, Philly, Delaware, Virginia, Toronto, etc... and I can say on the east coast we have the opposite.
I probably know 40 girls who are young, pretty, and can sing. But I only know 3 who can really belt it out and command a song and capture the attention of seasoned musicians... who turn to each other and say Wow!

Maybe we should trade; you send some of your dime a dozen pro's (in a 1% kind of way) to the east. And we will send you some young, pretty, above-average singers... oh wait a second they're already headed your way.

I agree MMoJ

But MHioM (my heart is on Melinda).

Tony you better watch it... you might be looking through the glass at Melinda soon.
Old 24th April 2007
  #340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanG View Post

I lived and gigged in LA for a couple of years and 99% of the singers were average at best.

I actually believe that there is higher concentrations of sub-par wanna-be pro's in LA. All of the decent, and not-so-decent-delusional singers are flocking there for their shot.
of course that's true... there are alot of horrible singers in l.a...

but if there's 75,000 singers in l.a., let's, say, 1 percent of that is still 750 singers, which is alot of really good singers.

and then again, there are alot of really good singers even before you get to the studio cream.

when i first moved to l.a., i posted up an ad in the "music connection" magazine which is where they have music classifieds.

through that stupid magazine, i met some who went on to get major label deals, go platinum, win grammys, etc...

so there is a LOT of talent in l.a.... (and of course, when it comes to getting paid, talent is only a part of the equation...)

the thing about american idol, as has been said in this thread, is the audition process is where it really falls down.

suppose everyone had to sing behind a curtain or something like that, and they just judged it on pure vocal talent alone.

and supposed they scoured the country, did away with the reality show b.s., and just offered a $1.5 million cash prize to the winner.

and suppose they brought back the top 32 of great GREAT singers under 30 yrs old.

thre things would happen.

a) the quality of the singing would go way up so that melinda would be the average, not the exception.

b) the ratings would plummet.

c) jordin would still look really good to any record company out there.

i mean, i am not exaggerating when i say i could call 4 or 5 singers right now in melinda's league or better and have them come over and knock out a tune for about $100 bucks and some pizza. and they'd be happy to get the call.

but a 17 yr old like jordin? hard to get next to a girl like that without some BIG money to offer for development.
Old 25th April 2007
  #341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sounds Great View Post
Tonight it was about inspiring songs. I wasn't very inspired. I give runner up to Jordin, and the most best performance of the night to, Lakisha. heh


(Blake sang Imagine and um, I kept imagining him stopping singing. boring )
I didn't get to see the whole show. But I did see the snippets at the end and Jordin's performance.

I got to tell ya, I'm not sold on Jordin just yet. Her vocal was just good for me....she had a lot of shakey parts in her voice.

Lakisha looked like she did pretty well though. I didn't get to see Doolittle. How did she do?
Old 25th April 2007
  #342
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Doolittle stole the show, a true rare talent.
Spot on with perfect intonation, sweet vibrato, confidence in delivery, stage presence, power, tone, dynamics, and rhythm, rhythm, rhythm.

If Tony and Soul can get singer/performers like this for $100 and some pizza, they're sitting on a gold mine.
They should definitely send some of those girls east, I'll give them $200 a session, and we have real pizza on this side.

Jordin was good... the vocal was shaky.

The rest of the pack...
Old 25th April 2007
  #343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanG View Post

If Tony and Soul can get singer/performers like this for $100 and some pizza, they are sitting on a gold mine.
They should definitely send some of those girls east, I will give them $200 a session, and we have real pizza on this side.
melinda must be reading gearslutz, because she wanted to show soundsgreat she knows country... she did faith hill...

both of those girls are great...

of course, sitting on a gold mine is great, if you're the only one with a gold mine... in hollywood, anyone who's been in the biz a couple of years has a black book filled with names and numbers...

l.a. is like that though... you wouldn't believe the people i've hired and how cheap i got them... not just singers...

i once hired one of the best drummers in the world for $200 bucks for 2 rehearsals and a gig. i told a drummer friend of mine from the midwest, who's got all this guy's "modern drummer" columns, and he said "i made more than that at a wedding... no rehearsals!"

that's l.a.... you take the best piano player from any city west of the misissippi, transplant them to l.a., and all of a sudden they're competing for jobs with all the rest of the 10 fingered monsters.

(ps sean g... there's a reason all those girls head west... and it ain't the pizza!!!)
Old 25th April 2007
  #344
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Hey on a side note, was anybody else inspired to call last night for the Idol gives back - fund raiser.

In the three years I've been watching I have never called in to vote, last night I called twice.

Big 3rd could you please give us your conspiracy theory on it? heh
Old 26th April 2007
  #345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanG View Post
Hey on a side note, was anybody else inspired to call last night for the Idol gives back - fund raiser.

In the three years I've been watching I have never called in to vote, last night I called twice.

Big 3rd could you please give us your conspiracy theory on it? heh
I've got nothing for you. I like the twist they put on it this week.
Old 26th April 2007
  #346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big 3rd View Post
I've got nothing for you. I like the twist they put on it this week.
Cool, me too.
Old 26th April 2007
  #347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soultrane View Post
(ps sean g... there's a reason all those girls head west... and it ain't the pizza!!!)
It's probably for In & Out Burgers!
Oh man, give me a double double, some fries, & a pink lemonade... talk about a guilty pleasure. Every time I go back west (which has been a while now so I am craving big time) I head straight from LAX to I&O.

How about the special guest performers?
I thought Annie Lennox was awesome.
I also really liked the Carrie Underwood & Kelly Clarkson performances. It was cool seeing Jeff Beck out there he sounded great.
Old 26th April 2007
  #348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanG View Post
It's probably for In & Out Burgers!
Oh man, give me a double double, some fries, & a pink lemonade... talk about a guilty pleasure. Every time I go back west (which has been a while now so I am craving big time) I head straight from LAX to I&O.

How about the special guest performers?
I thought Annie Lennox was awesome.
I also really liked the Carrie Underwood & Kelly Clarkson performances. It was cool seeing Jeff Beck out there he sounded great.
i missed it... basketball playoffs, and all...

but, try jerry's next time u come out.... the chili burger is the taste of l.a.!!!

(ps, what i really wanna know is, how many times did big 3rd have to reach for the kleenex to dab his eyes when he was watching the inspirational idol?)
Old 27th April 2007
  #349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soultrane View Post
i missed it... basketball playoffs, and all...

but, try jerry's next time u come out.... the chili burger is the taste of l.a.!!!

(ps, what i really wanna know is, how many times did big 3rd have to reach for the kleenex to dab his eyes when he was watching the inspirational idol?)
What I wanna know is ...why so little non-white performers?
Old 27th April 2007
  #350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soultrane View Post
but, try jerry's next time u come out.... the chili burger is the taste of l.a.!!!
Jerry's it is then.

Thanks for the tip.
Old 27th April 2007
  #351
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big 3rd View Post
What I wanna know is ...why so little non-white performers?
basketball playoffs?

Old 27th April 2007
  #352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanG View Post
Jerry's it is then.

Thanks for the tip.
better have your tums ready....
Old 27th April 2007
  #353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soultrane View Post
basketball playoffs?

The cost of a good comeback... priceless. heh
Old 27th April 2007
  #354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soultrane View Post
basketball playoffs?

LOL Good one asshole. LOL
Old 27th April 2007
  #355
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soultrane View Post
basketball playoffs?

yea, where the battle for the MVP is between two white guys!
Old 27th April 2007
  #356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gm5k View Post
yea, where the battle for the MVP is between two white guys!
Well, it definitely should go to Nash.
Old 27th April 2007
  #357
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Originally Posted by Big 3rd View Post
Well, it definitely should go to Nash.
rumor is nowitzki is the winner.
Old 27th April 2007
  #358
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Hey yawl, I just saw American Idol for this week.
I was in Miami, Tuesday Wednesday and Thursday so I just caught up on TIVO viewing.

Ya know, there is something about Melinda's voice that bothers me.
I haven't quite figured out what it is. I think it's a mid-range thing that's driving me crazy.
And as much as I like Jordin, she has got to control her vibrato.
There is this fast vibrato she does at the end of a note that is also getting to be really annoying.

Anyone else experience this?
Old 27th April 2007
  #359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd View Post
Hey yawl, I just saw American Idol for this week.
I was in Miami, Tuesday Wednesday and Thursday so I just caught up on TIVO viewing.

Ya know, there is something about Melinda's voice that bothers me.
I haven't quite figured out what it is. I think it's a mid-range thing that's driving me crazy.
And as much as I like Jordin, she has got to control her vibrato.
There is this fast vibrato she does at the end of a note that is also getting to be really annoying.

Anyone else experience this?
That has been one of Jordin's only weaknesses for me.

She definitely needs to get more control of her vibrato.
Her vibrato timing and swell rate has been inconsistent in the past, but this should be easily fixed with a coach and experience.
Pitch has been good, sometimes she misses the sweet spot, not normally but sometimes.
She's got that rising star kinda feel, still need some bumps in the road for her to get a more honest delivery.

Melinda's mids don't bother me, I like ’em. Just a taste thing.
Old 27th April 2007
  #360
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Don't count out Phil folks. He might be the comeback kid on this one.
Technically i feel he's on top of it.... plus he doesn't sound like a Justin T
wannabee.
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