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I could/couldn't care less Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 4 days ago
  #61
Linguistic progress? Or decay and devolution?


(And, no, Devo did not coin that word. LOL.)
Old 4 days ago
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
Linguistic progress? Or decay and devolution?
yes.
Old 4 days ago
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
Language is a living thing, to be sure, but when someone effectively says 'black is white' -- it is a direct attack on our ability to communicate effectively and clearly. It is to reasoned communication what 'fake news' is to journalism.
To be sure, I'm not in any way for deliberate or unwitting misuse as to be opaque, to confuse or be disingenuous.

I think we can agree communication is what matters, and to do it effectively with as little misunderstanding as possible.

That "literally" and "figuratively" is interchanged without much thought in most cases is to be expected, like how people say "like" or "you know" reflexively, subconsciously, but in context of what people are trying to express, we tend to get what they're trying to say.

"literally" is probably the most common adverb used to accentuate emphasis. I think it's OK to not literally freak out, and take it to task every-time it's used when "figuratively" is what's actually meant.
Old 4 days ago
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boombapdame View Post
@12tone the colorfulness of language is initially why I was drawn to Hip Hop. @FreshProduce let ignoramuses be, worse thing is to be a grammar ****.
I wholeheartedly agree.

That's one of the most empowering thing about hip-hop - it's a nu language, with new avenues of expression and thought, when there are no other alternatives.

It's also something commonplace in what separates generations, that younger and older ones can essentially use the same language and same words, but neither understands what the other is saying.

...like the classic Peanuts trombone sound for adults.
Old 4 days ago
  #65
I'm all for having fun with language and extending and playing with it. But simply accepting an absolute inversion of that denoted meaning as an 'accepted' meaning -- despite its absolute contradiction of the denoted meaning -- is not any sort of meaningful evolution nor is it any more creative than the rejoinders in a 'yes, you are'/'no, I'm not' argument. The word, literal, has a literal denotation -- and it's not 'figurative.'
Old 4 days ago
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
Yeah, well, literal has a literal denotation -- and it's not 'figurative.'
I honestly think a good portion of the population doesn't know what 'figurative' means. Hence, 'literal' covers all the bases. (or 'basis' as well)

One of my favorite art movements:
Bay Area Figurative Art
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_Ar...ative_Movement

big fan of Richard Diebenkorn.



Old 4 days ago
  #67
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What's wrong with plain old "I don't care" ?

The stacking of negatives simply makes phrases harder to interpret. Spent some time this morning trying to interpret this phrase in a brief:

"Contrary to Appellee's suggestion, Appellant did not argue at hearing that the ICS 80 endorsement did not afford coverage ."

Should this be interpreted as:

[1] Appellant positively argued at hearing that the ICS 80 endorsement did afford coverage?

[2] Appellant did not argue for an absence of coverage pursuant to the ICS 80 endorsement, and made no positive argument in favor of coverage, leaving the question open?

[3] Appellant conceded at hearing that there was no coverage pursuant to the ICS 80 endorsement?

Going on further in the text, it apparently was the least likely interpretation, [3], that was intended.

Why the **** didn't they just say so?
Old 4 days ago
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norfolk martin View Post
What's wrong with plain old "I don't care" ?

The stacking of negatives simply makes phrases harder to interpret. Spent some time this morning trying to interpret this phrase in a brief:

"Contrary to Appellee's suggestion, Appellant did not argue at hearing that the ICS 80 endorsement did not afford coverage ."

Should this be interpreted as:

[1] Appellant positively argued at hearing that the ICS 80 endorsement did afford coverage?

[2] Appellant did not argue for an absence of coverage pursuant to the ICS 80 endorsement, and made no positive argument in favor of coverage, leaving the question open?

[3] Appellant conceded at hearing that there was no coverage pursuant to the ICS 80 endorsement?

Going on further in the text, it apparently was the least likely interpretation, [3], that was intended.

Why the **** didn't they just say so?
If one loses a case involving a cockroach extermination gone awry, and wants to retry, would it be fair to call that person an insect appellant?
Old 4 days ago
  #69
Old 4 days ago
  #70
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norfolk martin's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
If one loses a case involving a cockroach extermination gone awry, and wants to retry, would it be fair to call that person an insect appellant?
It would be fair. Now I'm waiting for a case involving an insect so I can use that one.

When I was first in law school, I had difficulty keeping track of who was an Appellant as opposed to an Appellee.

I ended up with a picture in my head of of the ant and the grasshopper - The appell ant is the one who is busy and proactive, and hence the one who files an appeal.

Ditto with mortgagee and mortgagor . I had to remember slappor (he who slaps someone) and Slappee (he who gets slapped).

One of my Jewish professors also told me how to remember the difference between a schmuck (a fool) and a schlemiel (an unlucky person or one who makes bad choices )

"The schmuck trips while carrying the soup, and it always lands on the schlemiel"
Old 4 days ago
  #71
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Iregaurdless...
Old 4 days ago
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norfolk martin View Post
One of my Jewish professors also told me how to remember the difference between a schmuck (a fool) and a schlemiel (an unlucky person or one who makes bad choices )
There's a much finer distinction between a schlemiel and a schlemazel.
Old 4 days ago
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
There's a much finer distinction between a schlemiel and a schlemazel.
What's smegma?
Old 4 days ago
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
There's a much finer distinction between a schlemiel and a schlemazel.
With all due respect to Hasenpfeffer Incorporated, not really...that's like trying to figure out who's the better catch: Antonio Sabàto Jr. or Scott Baio?
Old 4 days ago
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noisewagon View Post
What's smegma?
That'll be a smug enema...as though someone can fool themselves into thinking it's somehow not awkward, demeaning or embarrassing, and it's business as usual.

FWIW, I've never had one. Only speculating for levity sake...
Old 4 days ago
  #76
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Minimally exceptional.
Old 4 days ago
  #77
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
I honestly think a good portion of the population doesn't know what 'figurative' means. Hence, 'literal' covers all the bases. (or 'basis' as well)

One of my favorite art movements:
Bay Area Figurative Art
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_Ar...ative_Movement

big fan of Richard Diebenkorn.



It's a term that covers a lot of ground, to be sure, including much abstract art.

Double-checking to make sure my understanding was, in fact, more or less in sync with the common sense of the term in the art world, I found these useful sum-ups...

Figurative art – Art Term | Tate

Abstract art – Art Term | Tate


I was a big fan of Kandinsky and read a bit of his theorizing on his move away from the figurative when I was in college and working in the uni's library art department. I was interested because I was immediately drawn to a lot of Kandinsky's work.
Old 4 days ago
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
I was a big fan of Kandinsky and read a bit of his theorizing on his move away from the figurative when I was in college and working in the uni's library art department. I was interested because I was immediately drawn to a lot of Kandinsky's work.
As to my allegiance, I perpetually 'Wassily-8' between Kandinsky and Mondrian...
Old 3 days ago
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noisewagon View Post
Minimally exceptional.
..Or is that 'exceptionally minimal'?
.
Old 3 days ago
  #80
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anything literal, requires some kind of technology in order to mediate itself as content within some other medium. in the case of a printed book, which this sentence on your screen imitates, the accuracy and repeatability of the technology of the printing press lends a power and impression of truth, to a statement. in that way the printed word overtakes the logos of the spoken word.

this eventually becomes formulated into a notion of something being considered, literally true or literally real. so someone might say in court, this person literally ran over my foot.

but for this to be close to the case of someone literally running over your foot, it would have to be something like, a vehicle transporting a load of books titled,
Running Over Peoples Feet.

the important questions to me, are not the fact that someone might be technically misusing this or that phrase or term, in respect of how ever many hundreds of years since the invention of the printing press drummed itself into society and culture. but rather, what forces are at play in respect of new technologies and new environments, which are responsible for transforming those uses.

this really rounds it up more fully than the above.

Old 3 days ago
  #81
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
As to my allegiance, I perpetually 'Wassily-8' between Kandinsky and Mondrian...
I like Mondrian... his work is often 'subtle,' in a sense. Its emotional content seems to emerge slowly.

But my favorite Kandinsky stuff really talks to me. I like the whimsy in so many (but certainly not all) of his works, but more I just like the way they look.
Old 3 days ago
  #82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muser View Post
[...] so someone might say in court, this person literally ran over my foot.

but for this to be close to the case of someone literally running over your foot, it would have to be something like, a vehicle transporting a load of books titled,
Running Over Peoples Feet.

[...]



Well... of course, 'communication' between humans is a quixotic conceit. We're all just standing on our separate hill tops waving our signal semaphores wildly at each other, hoping someone out there has got the same code book we do...
Old 3 days ago
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
I like Mondrian... his work is often 'subtle,' in a sense. Its emotional content seems to emerge slowly.

But my favorite Kandinsky stuff really talks to me. I like the whimsy in so many (but certainly not all) of his works, but more I just like the way they look.
Kandinsky is way more dynamic, for sure. He's great, amazing, without question.

Mondrian, I appreciate in the same way I love Webern - the exactness, the clinical/clean minimalism of it. In a way it's Mondrian/Anton Webern to Kandinsky/Alban Berg...that how I sort of see it.
Old 3 days ago
  #84
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
I disagree.



In exactly the same way "literally" means "figuratively".
Thank you.
Old 3 days ago
  #85
^^



FWIW, what really got me was the in lieu of thing. Misusing the phrase to mean 'in light of' instead of 'in place of' in such a way could really scramble some meanings.
Old 3 days ago
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noisewagon View Post
Iregaurdless...
Irregardless, it's unequivocably unequivocable...
Old 3 days ago
  #87
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Thread Starter
How come when it's us, its an abortion..
But when it's a chicken, it's an omelet?
-George Carlin
Old 3 days ago
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreshProduce View Post
How come when it's us, its an abortion..
But when it's a chicken, it's an omelet?
-George Carlin
In Japan, Calpis is a soda,
and an omelette is an art form.

Old 3 days ago
  #89
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Muser's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post



Well... of course, 'communication' between humans is a quixotic conceit. We're all just standing on our separate hill tops waving our signal semaphores wildly at each other, hoping someone out there has got the same code book we do...
well I must admit, I still haven't personally perfected the semaphore for
Get Off My Lawn
Old 2 days ago
  #90
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
In Japan, Calpis is a soda,
and an omelette is an art form.

I have a big bottle of white peach calpis in my fridge right now and have been wanting one of those omelets for quite some time since my fiance showed me those videos. (She was stationed in Japan for a number of years)
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