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Billy's Back ... Paul Is Dead
Old 19th March 2017
  #871
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hhamilton View Post
Believe it or not, there are Yoko fans who admire her art and her music to this very day.

Harry Nilsson, John's good friend, covered a number of her songs.
Wow, was always a big Nilsson fan.

Beyond his angelic voice, it seems he was benevolent beyond reason. More respect, as while I can appreciate Yoko as an artist, I didn't necessarily dig her art per se, if you can catch my drift.

Regarding the Yoko thing, in general she's been treated so harshly, and I think a part of that can be attributed to racism, given the general Western perception of an Asian woman is either that of being totally servile/obedient or cunning/ evil femme fatale. Obviously Yoko was cast as the latter.

In general, I don't think life or love is that black and white.
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Old 19th March 2017
  #872
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hhamilton View Post
Believe it or not, there are Yoko fans who admire her art and her music to this very day.

Harry Nilsson, John's good friend, covered a number of her songs.
I admire some of her art. I went to a showing at the Minneapolis Museum of Art and found some of her stuff very interesting. Personally I have no beef with her and I do not believe she is why the Beatles split up - never did. I however do not care for her music.
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Old 19th March 2017
  #873
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
Wow, was always a big Nilsson fan.

Beyond his angelic voice, it seems he was benevolent beyond reason. More respect, as while I can appreciate Yoko as an artist, I didn't necessarily dig her art per se, if you can catch my drift.

Regarding the Yoko thing, in general she's been treated so harshly, and I think a part of that can be attributed to racism, given the general Western perception of an Asian woman is either that of being totally servile/obedient or cunning/ evil femme fatale. Obviously Yoko was cast as the latter.

In general, I don't think life or love is that black and white.
I rea-llly don't think this has anything to do with racism. Beatle fans never slag off May Pang, Billy Preston or any of the numerous black artists who inspired them. By and large they revere them and understand the Beatles would never have been what they were without R n B, Motown etc.
This is a very simple situation. People dislike Yoko because of her behaviour and how it affected his art. She was a manipulative user with no obvious talent other than screaming into a microphone and inviting audience members to cut her out of a dress, but who (for whatever reasons) John fell for. None of us would be having this discussion or even know her name if not for John.
Old 19th March 2017
  #874
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentvangogo View Post
I rea-llly don't think this has anything to do with racism. Beatle fans never slag off May Pang, Billy Preston or any of the numerous black artists who inspired them. By and large they revere them and understand the Beatles would never have been what they were without R n B, Motown etc.
This is a very simple situation. People dislike Yoko because of her behaviour and how it affected his art. She was a manipulative user with no obvious talent other than screaming into a microphone and inviting audience members to cut her out of a dress, but who (for whatever reasons) John fell for. None of us would be having this discussion or even know her name if not for John.
I did qualify 'a part'. In no way would I imply all Beatles fans, in toto, as a collective felt as such.

Obviously Yoko was not hated as such only because of her race, but surely, that for some that (whether it was conscious or not) played a role.

I think now, in the 2000's it's less of a factor, though not nearly totally erased, but then, society had a lot of baked in ideas and notions.

It's a fact that slurs such as 'chink' or 'yellow' were hurled at her, in reaction to her entanglement with John and the Beatles. Take that for what it's worth...
Old 19th March 2017
  #875
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentvangogo View Post
I rea-llly don't think this has anything to do with racism. Beatle fans never slag off May Pang, Billy Preston or any of the numerous black artists who inspired them. By and large they revere them and understand the Beatles would never have been what they were without R n B, Motown etc.
This is a very simple situation. People dislike Yoko because of her behaviour and how it affected his art. She was a manipulative user with no obvious talent other than screaming into a microphone and inviting audience members to cut her out of a dress, but who (for whatever reasons) John fell for. None of us would be having this discussion or even know her name if not for John.
I surely agree, and think it's clever for race-baiters to put us on the defensive after forgetting the crap Yoko pulled wasn't of a racial nature.
I know race-baiters expect us to say "well I know several purple people and am in business with plaid people; surely I'm not racist"

Who knows why Yoko Ono got John Lennon hooked on heroin, I don't think it was racist, I only know that just because a person spews puke doesn't make it art.

Homewrecker, business-wrecker, family-wrecker; the denial I see in others who desperately want to give credibility to a billionaire hypocrite by accusing those who noticed. Buy her stuff then! Book her to sing at the next Super Bowl.
Old 19th March 2017
  #876
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Not all "beatle fans" think alike obviously. And the racism was apparent and still is today. All you have to do is go to youtube and look at most any video that may or not involve Yoko, or many other places on the internet (and no doubt in real life), and some people will be spewing ugly comments, racist and otherwise.

People can hate or dislike other people for whatever reasons, but that doesn't make it right or justified.

I think Yoko was pretty good looking, btw, and I totally get why he fell for her compared to the typical types that most music people go for.

It's interesting, too, that if you look for positive things regarding Yoko, you can find a lot of stuff. People who like her, admire her, and other things.



John and Yoko and Julian and Kyoko.



John and Yoko with Julian at the Stone's Rock and Roll Circus.

Old 19th March 2017
  #877
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I maintain, the cuteness of kids being cared for by heroin addicts aren't cute enough to offset the fact they're being cared for by heroin addicts.
Old 19th March 2017
  #878
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyM View Post
I maintain, the cuteness of kids being cared for by heroin addicts aren't cute enough to offset the fact they're being cared for by heroin addicts.
Yes, they should have stuck to alcohol and marijuana and LSD and other drugs like most other parents.

Were they on heroin at the time of hanging out with their kids? You guys must know as you know the true and complete details of everything they did at all times every day. I suppose Cynthia was clean and sober all the time and Kyoko's dad was just naturally nuts?

They cleaned up before they became full time parents, after John's lost weekend of drink and debauchery.









Old 19th March 2017
  #879
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hhamilton View Post
Yes, they should have stuck to alcohol and marijuana and LSD and other drugs like most other parents.

Were they on heroin at the time of hanging out with their kids? You guys must know as you know the true and complete details of everything they did at all times every day. I suppose Cynthia was clean and sober all the time and Kyoko's dad was just naturally nuts?

They cleaned up before they became full time parents, after John's lost weekend of drink and debauchery.

You seem more comfortable with the myth than the reality, but as you brought it up - yes, Cynthia actually was very straight and strongly disapproved of John's drug use (which at the time was mainly limited to pot and acid.) Post Yoko he got into heroin (no one seems to know who gave it to him first, but we do know they were both taking it soon after getting together.) They also both dabbled with it after Julian was born. Sorry if this shatters any illusions.
Old 20th March 2017
  #880
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentvangogo View Post
You seem more comfortable with the myth than the reality, but as you brought it up - yes, Cynthia actually was very straight and strongly disapproved of John's drug use (which at the time was mainly limited to pot and acid.) Post Yoko he got into heroin (no one seems to know who gave it to him first, but we do know they were both taking it soon after getting together.) They also both dabbled with it after Julian was born. Sorry if this shatters any illusions.
I have no trouble with reality. There's good and bad. You guys seem to have trouble with the good.

They did heroin, never used needles, and they regretted it. John did drugs and alcohol from his teenage years, as did the other Beatles as did a lot of people, and still do. How is this Yoko's fault? Paul McCartney did drugs, too. Smoked pot and drank throughout all of his children's lives. George Harrison did drugs/alcohol. Ringo did drugs/alcohol. And they all had children. Whether Cynthia ever did drugs or alcohol at all, I'm not sure, but I do know that she blames the bad element that came into their lives in general in the mid 60s, because of the culture and fame The Beatles achieved, for the breakup of her marriage, and not Yoko! I just heard her say this in an interview. Marriages break up all the time, everywhere, to everyone. And parents do drugs and alcohol everywhere around the world. Hate to shatter your illusion that only John and Yoko did drugs, and that Yoko is to blame for everything bad that ever happened.
Old 20th March 2017
  #881
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The Beatles' first exposure to heroin is believed to have taken place in 1965. While filming Help! on Huntington Hartford's estate on Paradise Island in the Bahamas, director Richard Lester witnessed two women attempting to introduce Paul McCartney to the drug.

[Lester] accidentally overheard two of the most beautiful women he had ever seen, dressed in identical, stunning black swimsuits, try to coax Paul into taking heroin. The combination of their sexual come-on and the enticement towards hard drugs was one of the most chillingly evil moments Lester has ever encountered ... His sense of relief when Paul rebuffed the twosome was profound.

In a 2004 interview with Uncut magazine, Paul McCartney described how he did take heroin, albeit unwittingly, in the 1960s.

I tried heroin just the once. Even then, I didn't realize I'd taken it. I was just handed something, smoked it, then found out what it was. It didn't do anything for me, which was lucky because I wouldn't have fancied heading down that road.

Paul McCartney
Uncut magazine, 2004

The account contradicts a passage in McCartney's authorised biography, in which he recalls snorting the drug with art dealer Robert Fraser.

I was very frightened of drugs, having a nurse mother, so I was always cautious, thank God as it turned out, because I would be in rooms with guys who would say, 'Do you want to sniff a little heroin?' and I would say, 'Well, just a little.' I did some with Robert Fraser, and some of the boys in the Stones who were doing things like that. I always refer to it as walking through a minefield, and I was lucky because had anyone hit me with a real dose that I loved, I would have been a heroin addict.

Robert Fraser once said to me, 'Heroin is not addictive. There's no problem with heroin addiction, even if it is addictive, you've just got to have a lot of money. The problem with heroin is when you can't pay for it.' Which of course is absolute bull****! You're a junkie, of course you are. This was the way he put it to me and for a second I was almost taken in but then my northern savvy kicked in and said, 'Now don't go for all of this. This is all very exotic and romantic but don't go for all of it.' There was always a little corner, at the back of my brain, that 'knock! knock! knock!' on the door - 'Stop!'

A lot of his friends messed around with heroin. A lot of his lords and ladies were heroin addicts and had been for many many years. And give Robert his due, he knew I wasn't that keen. He knew I wasn't a nutter for that kind of stuff. So I did sniff heroin with him once, but I said afterwards, 'I'm not sure about this, man. It didn't really do anything for me,' and he said, 'In that case, I won't offer you again.' And I didn't take it again. I was often around it when they'd all be doing it. They'd repair to the toilet and I'd say, 'I'm all right, thanks, no.' One of the most difficult things about that period was the peer pressure to do that.

Paul McCartney
Old 20th March 2017
  #882
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But we're talking about John here. As far I know he never took it until shortly after he began seeing Yoko.
Old 20th March 2017
  #883
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentvangogo View Post
But we're talking about John here. As far I know he never took it until shortly after he began seeing Yoko.
The point is that drugs were all around with all sorts of people offering it. To focus on Yoko is just trying to look for the bad and blame her for everything. It's illogical. Yoko was not around when The Beatles took acid. LSD!! A potentially horrible horrible destructive drug!!! If The Beatles took drugs and drank, and if Beatle wives and mothers did as well, or any other music person, or any people around the world, they themselves as individuals are allll to blame.

If I posted a picture of McCartney and Linda with their kids, smiling and enjoying themselves, would the first reaction be how they were horrible drug addicts? Who first gave McCartney prellies or pot or cigarettes or alcohol or heroin or acid?

If I posted a picture of Ringo with his kids, would the first reaction be how he dumped his fist wife, broke up his family, ended up with a Hollywood bimbo, and was a raging alcoholic? Who first gave him these drugs and made him break up with his wife?

Paul says about Lennon's use:

He was getting into harder drugs than we'd been into and so his songs were taking on more references to heroin. Until that point we had made rather mild, oblique references to pot or LSD. But now John started talking about fixes and monkeys and it was harder terminology which the rest of us weren't into. We were disappointed that he was getting into heroin because we didn't really know how we could help him. We just hoped it wouldn't go too far. In actual fact, he did end up clean but this was the period when he was on it. It was a tough period for John, but often that adversity and craziness can lead to good art, as I think it did in this case.

John says:

Heroin. It just was not too much fun. I never injected it or anything. We sniffed a little when we were in real pain. I mean we just couldn't - people were giving us such a hard time. And I've had so much sh*t thrown at me and especially at Yoko. People like Peter Brown in our office, he comes down and shakes my hand and doesn't even say hello to her. Now that's going on all the time. And we get in so much pain that we have to do something about it. And that's what happened to us. We took H because of what The Beatles and their pals were doing to us. And we got out of it. They didn't set down to do it, but things came out of that period. And I don't forget.
Old 20th March 2017
  #884
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentvangogo View Post
But we're talking about John here. As far I know he never took it until shortly after he began seeing Yoko.
After he began seeing Yoko, then seeing less of the mother of his son. And less of the kid and more of the heroin and more of the bed in the studio and less of his bandmates and more of heroin and more diseased squacks on an album featuring what heroin does on the cover, more time with the trustworthy Magic Alex since John would have full faculties to know better, and send her husband away with their hired assistant May Pang an maybe drop the kids off with Pete Townsend for babysitting.
Just like any parent?
Old 20th March 2017
  #885
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Ugh, it's a lost cause. Go on hating if that floats your boat.

This thread is 30 pages of TMZ. I thought the PID stuff was stupid, but this actually seems worse to me.
Old 20th March 2017
  #886
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hhamilton View Post
Ugh, it's a lost cause. Go on hating if that floats your boat.

This thread is 30 pages of TMZ. I thought the PID stuff was stupid, but this actually seems worse to me.
It's not about hating, it's about dispelling myths and setting the record straight. There's ample evidence she targetted John for financing and that she outright lied to him from day 1. Cynthia's descriptions of how she jumped into their car earlier on and how she found her in her house having just slept with John wearing her bathrobe also suggest a very callous person, to say the very least. Almost all the information we know of after this point merely confirms this behaviour, and it goes right up until after John's death when she completely screwed over Julian.

I know lots of people like to see her as this victimized, misunderstood genius, but there's almost no evidence to support it other than her own words (even before meeting John she was only a minor figure in Fluxus who she also ended up falling out with.) I realize there are people who claim to like her music, in fact there's a couple of tracks I quite like, but considering the musicians she had surrounding her I don't find that too surprising. Anyway that's my view, call it 'hating' if you like, but I think it's pretty factual.
Old 20th March 2017
  #887
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentvangogo View Post
It's not about hating, it's about dispelling myths and setting the record straight.
I don't think that's really possible, and I don't think the usual hearsay from "biographers" and "insiders" is setting "the record" straight at all. It's just more myths and noise and biases and incomplete stories that aren't even anyone's business, and many of the people involved aren't even around anymore to clear any of this up if they were so inclined to wallow in the gutter.

Quote:
I know lots of people like to see her as this victimized, misunderstood genius, but there's almost no evidence to support it other than her own words.
There's John's words, but those don't count because he was hypnotized, and now he's not around, and if he was, one can imagine how he'd feel about this sort of thing.

Let's drop it. There's plenty of hearsay all over the internet and in books. The PID stuff was bad enough.
Old 20th March 2017
  #888
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentvangogo View Post
It's not about hating, it's about dispelling myths and setting the record straight. .
True, and only hhamilton is lashing out with labels of "hater" and "racist", when we show love for the victims and no deference to any race.

True too, John Lennon sang "Woman is the n****r of the world" (his words not mine) and I'm not sure if that's racist (it is), but you know, maybe if he wasn't spoon-fed heroin by Junko Ono he'd have switched that out for a polka or something.

**Ono! As per forum description, no serious social issues. So I'll thank the panel of texperts and see what's going on at the Moan Zone...

Last edited by JoeyM; 20th March 2017 at 06:20 AM.. Reason: No serious social issues
Old 20th March 2017
  #889
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyM View Post
True, and only hhamilton is lashing out with labels of "hater" and "racist", when we show love for the victims and no deference to any race.

True too, John Lennon sang "Woman is the n****r of the world" (his words not mine) and I'm not sure if that's racist (it is), but you know, maybe if he wasn't spoon-fed heroin by Junko Ono he'd have switched that out for a polka or something.
Was not me calling anyone here a racist, so that right there shows how bullsh*t is created.

Just that simple.

All I said, when the subject came up, was that people have been and continue to be racist regarding Yoko. That's a fact, so I don't know why anyone would ignore it or deny it.

If there is a difference between "hate" and "dislike" and making up things like "Junko Ono" spoon fed Lennon heroin, I don't see what difference it makes.

I guess you don't get the song. Why not mention McCartney's "Frozen Jap" while you're at it.

The Beatles were all womanizing wife cheating drug addict lousy parent liars.

There, does that set the record straight?
Old 20th March 2017
  #890
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyM View Post
I maintain, the cuteness of kids being cared for by heroin addicts aren't cute enough to offset the fact they're being cared for by heroin addicts.
What a horrid and demeaning statement that has the smell of creepiness to it.
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Old 20th March 2017
  #891
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyM View Post
True, and only hhamilton is lashing out with labels of "hater" and "racist", when we show love for the victims and no deference to any race.

True too, John Lennon sang "Woman is the n****r of the world" (his words not mine) and I'm not sure if that's racist (it is), but you know, maybe if he wasn't spoon-fed heroin by Junko Ono he'd have switched that out for a polka or something.

**Ono! As per forum description, no serious social issues. So I'll thank the panel of texperts and see what's going on at the Moan Zone...
To be fair, I think the accusation was that racism played a part among some people who criticized Yoko, not specifically you or I. I don't think it was a major factor myself, but it's probably true to say a few people felt that way.
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Old 20th March 2017
  #892
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentvangogo View Post
To be fair, I think the accusation was that racism played a part among some people who criticized Yoko, not specifically you or I. I don't think it was a major factor myself, but it's probably true to say a few people felt that way.
Well in that case, I'm sorry I took offense when it wasn't directed at me.
The joy of growing up in America is the melting pot and all the best of everyone who came here.
I've seen a lot more race-baiters than racists. But that's my perspective from a smallish University town.
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Old 20th March 2017
  #893
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<snip>

The only difference between famous people and regular people, is regular people don't get crapped on, "disliked", hated on, name called, lied about, insulted...by the public day in and day out for years for who they are and what they may or may not have done in their personal lives.

Last edited by psycho_monkey; 21st March 2017 at 12:15 AM..
Old 20th March 2017
  #894
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Today is John and Yoko's marriage anniversary, btw.

Old 21st March 2017
  #895
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hhamilton View Post
...

The only difference between famous people and regular people, is regular people don't get crapped on, "disliked", hated on, name called, lied about, insulted...by the public day in and day out for years for who they are and what they may or may not have done in their personal lives.
You obviously don't remember the Gearslutz political forum.
Old 21st March 2017
  #896
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Originally Posted by vincentvangogo View Post
You obviously don't remember the Gearslutz political forum.
No I don't.

People crapping on each other in forums is pretty normal. People just love to crap on each other. The internet has really upped the ante. It's the new normal and it's pathetic.

Don't know how anyone can drag someone's actual personal life into that though. Your family, your wife, your parents, your children, you, out there for all to rip to complete shreds in public, for years on end.

Some "fans" seem unusually obsessed with Yoko. It's very strange. If you look at the comments for that Chuck Berry/Lennon video, most everyone is tearing Yoko apart with horrible vile comments 50 years later! Get over it! Nobody in the audience had a problem. It was great fun.
Old 21st March 2017
  #897
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Originally Posted by hhamilton View Post
No I don't.

People crapping on each other in forums is pretty normal. People just love to crap on each other. The internet has really upped the ante. It's the new normal and it's pathetic.

Don't know how anyone can drag someone's actual personal life into that though. Your family, your wife, your parents, your children, you, out there for all to rip to complete shreds in public, for years on end.

Some "fans" seem unusually obsessed with Yoko. It's very strange. If you look at the comments for that Chuck Berry/Lennon video, most everyone is tearing Yoko apart with horrible vile comments 50 years later! Get over it! Nobody in the audience had a problem. It was great fun.
The difference was that he made her a very significant part of his music, art and politics and talked about her endlessly as a kind of saviour figure. Had the results been positive, the reaction to her may have been different, (no one had an issue with Cynthia, Pattie, etc) but to the vast majority of fans, almost overnight he went from being this musical genius and brilliant mind who spoke his mind regardless of the consequences, to something, well let's say, not quite as brilliant and a lot less honest. He was still an absolutely amazing artist, but there was now this sense of him no longer speaking and thinking as freely and pulling his punches slightly.

An example of this is the song God off John Lennon Plastic Ono Band, where after listing all the things he once believed in and now saw through, ('I don't believe in Elvis, I don't believe in Beatles, I don't believe in Zimmerman etc') the music then stops, followed by the line. "I just believe in me."

Absolutely amazing in my opinion. Uniquely personal, yet at the same time a message to everyone to have faith in oneself and not blindly follow.
Until the next line.
"Yoko and me."

Which undoes everything.

And you can almost picture the scene where he wrote it.

(Yoko glaring) "I think you're forgetting someone here, John."
"Sorry love."

(sings) "... 'Yoko and me.' ... How's that?"
"Now it works."

I've no idea how he really wrote it, but I wouldn't be surprised that even if not forced, he put that line in there primarily to make her happy. Anyway, I know you find all this stuff nasty, but John was not afraid to call a situation as he saw it, so I think it's fair to do the same. I also think that had he lived, he would have eventually seen it himself, and might even have ended up performing God amended to include Yoko in the list of things he no longer believed in.
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Old 21st March 2017
  #898
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentvangogo View Post
The difference was that he made her a very significant part of his music, art and politics and talked about her endlessly as a kind of saviour figure. Had the results been positive, the reaction to her may have been different, (no one had an issue with Cynthia, Pattie, etc) but to the vast majority of fans, almost overnight he went from being this musical genius and brilliant mind who spoke his mind regardless of the consequences, to something, well let's say, not quite as brilliant and a lot less honest. He was still an absolutely amazing artist, but there was now this sense of him no longer speaking and thinking as freely and pulling his punches slightly.
I think girls had issues with other girls from the start. I just read how Maureen was attacked physically at the Cavern or some such thing.

If The Beatles were out now, I'm sure everyone would be TMZing it up about whoever they went out with, just as people do now with current celebrities.

And Linda was certainly attacked and mocked.

The male "fans" joined in when they brought the girls out from the shadows and the wives/girlfriends were no longer typical wife/servants.

Of course, The Beatles are attacked viciously themselves by some all over the place.

It's just the way a lot of people are with celebrities and probably with people in their own lives but we don't have to hear about it/see it in articles/books/magazines/internet.

Doesn't make any of it right.

Quote:
An example of this is the song God off John Lennon Plastic Ono Band, where after listing all the things he once believed in and now saw through, ('I don't believe in Elvis, I don't believe in Beatles, I don't believe in Zimmerman etc') the music then stops, followed by the line. "I just believe in me."

Absolutely amazing in my opinion. Uniquely personal, yet at the same time a message to everyone to have faith in oneself and not blindly follow.
Until the next line.
"Yoko and me."

Which undoes everything.

And you can almost picture the scene where he wrote it.

(Yoko glaring) "I think you're forgetting someone here, John."
"Sorry love."

(sings) "... 'Yoko and me.' ... How's that?"
"Now it works."

I've no idea how he really wrote it, but I wouldn't be surprised that even if not forced, he put that line in there primarily to make her happy. Anyway, I know you find all this stuff nasty, but John was not afraid to call a situation as he saw it, so I think it's fair to do the same. I also think that had he lived, he would have eventually seen it himself, and might even have ended up performing God amended to include Yoko in the list of things he no longer believed in.
All of that is in your head. Totally fabricated. I don't see how that is busting myths, looking for truth, or setting the record straight. It's entirely made up conjecture that I completely disagree with. There is zero reason to think that is the case at all.

There is nothing in his work that belies his love for her. He wrote many many songs about his love for her.

Why people have a problem with that is their problem.

Old 21st March 2017
  #899
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hhamilton View Post
....All of that is in your head. Totally fabricated. I don't see how that is busting myths, looking for truth, or setting the record straight. It's entirely made up conjecture that I completely disagree with. There is zero reason to think that is the case at all.

There is nothing in his work that belies his love for her. He wrote many many songs about his love for her.

Why people have a problem with that is their problem.

I admitted it was speculation, I also said he had strong feelings for her, but it doesn't mean she didn't manipulate him.
'Oh Yoko' is a very good song imo and there's other good ones she helped inspire, but again it doesn't negate anything I've said about her as a person.

I know you think you're sticking up for someone whose taken a lot of cr*p from the public, but you should also consider the number of people including Julian, Cynthia and almost every close family member aside from Sean whose said she put them through hell. Maybe also consider that none of the other Beatle wives were subject to these kinds of accusations, excepting Heather Mills, another notorious manipulator, (who Paul also wrote a love song for.) Or maybe you think she was also just deeply misunderstood.
Old 21st March 2017
  #900
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentvangogo View Post
I admitted it was speculation, I also said he had strong feelings for her, but it doesn't mean she didn't manipulate him.
'Oh Yoko' is a very good song imo and there's other good ones she helped inspire, but again it doesn't negate anything I've said about her as a person.
Do you know her as a person? If you look for it, there are people who actually know her as a person and feel she is a kind person.

Quote:
I know you think you're sticking up for someone whose taken a lot of cr*p from the public
I don't think it, I know it. It's a fact.

Quote:
but you should also consider the number of people including Julian, Cynthia and almost every close family member aside from Sean whose said she put them through hell. Maybe also consider that none of the other Beatle wives were subject to these kinds of accusations
And I'm sure that Ringo put Maureen through hell when he was drinking too much and cheating on her with models all the time.

But it's none of my business and I'm not going to insult him and complain about him being an evil low life selfish bastard for 50 years.

(I'm actually making myself sick with these examples to show the obvious bias and obsession people have with Yoko, and I'm not sure if it even helps make the point, so hopefully, this will be the last time.)

Families have issues all the time, especially broken families, ex-wives, children of divorce. And people have issues with money all the time, especially huge sums, wills, contracts.

John is to blame for whatever his will was as much, if not way more, than Yoko. To assume it was all her doing, and she manipulated him into it is, again, pure speculation and myth making.

Besides that, Julian got a settlement. It's over! He's a millionaire!! If he has ongoing issues with his dad and his step mom, he is welcome to join the club of millions of people all around the world.

People have attacked Yoko from day one, and will look for any excuse and anything to back that up without really knowing the complete story, none of which is their business anyway.

And they will disregard anything positive. I put a recent positive quote from Paul saying he likes her, and you immediately came back with the "theory" that he must be lying.

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excepting Heather Mills, another notorious manipulator, (who Paul also wrote a love song for.) Or maybe you think she was also just deeply misunderstood.
Possibly misunderstood to a degree. Obviously, that didn't work out, but they have a child that hopefully is happy, and as far as I know, all is okay now. Paul's personal life is really none of my business and I couldn't possibly begin to really know or understand anything about it even if all the insiders in the world wrote books with a biased agenda, half truths, and made up stories.
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