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Michael Jackson R.I.P.
Old 26th June 2009
  #211
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deuc647's Avatar
True but u can only polish a dull diamond so much. Bottol line is dude could sing, a lot better than most artists nowadays. It was all these elements that made it great. I mean bruce did work for j low, but where is she?

This post is for all the people saying it wasn't him that made great music.
Old 26th June 2009
  #212
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Rappy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ektia View Post
I'm in music precisely because I want to contribute (in my own meager and nearly-invisible way) to creating music of substance and depth, and not contribute to a bleak culture that welcomes the type of slick and pointless product that Michael Jackson and other mass-marketed entertainers fill our shelves with every year.

Anyone who thinks Michael Jackson set a "standard" needs to leave the music business. Hendrix set a standard. The Beatles set a standard. John Coltrane set a standard. Mozart set a standard. Not in a million years did Michael Jackson approach any type of standard except the crassest one, that of commerce.
Granted, he was commercial. However, you don't think "Man In The Mirror" or "We Are The World" had at least something of a genuine, heart felt human emotion and altruism beneath a couple layers of, admittedly, cheesy synths? The gospel choir gives me chills sometimes.

-Rappy
Old 26th June 2009
  #213
Quote:
Originally Posted by ektia View Post
Anyone who thinks Michael Jackson set a "standard" needs to leave the music business.
I would PAY MONEY to see you publicly tell this to Quincy Jones, Bruce Swedien and Ed Cherney.
Old 26th June 2009
  #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia View Post
I'd bet that Bruce and Quincy would confirm my opinion.

MJ was a genius (during that time) and had a lot to do with that record's brilliance.
I am not disagreeing with his ability, but I doubt if thriller would have been as thrilling without Quincy and Bruce...considering that Bruce is very much a conductor of records and less an engineer.

The who's who of talent and corporate vision on that record should be at least noticed, if nothing else MJ could get people onboard...hell even in court.
Old 26th June 2009
  #215
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AllAboutTone's Avatar
 

Some people like to troll on a thread of respect, they have nothing better to do.
Old 26th June 2009
  #216
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RIP MJ.

The world will remember you, your music, and of course many other things about you.

However, the music will remain...

And FF was my heartthrob as a kid - you will also be missed. RIP
Old 26th June 2009
  #217
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Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by iomegaman View Post
I am not disagreeing with his ability, but I doubt if thriller would have been as thrilling without Quincy and Bruce...considering that Bruce is very much a conductor of records and less an engineer.

The who's who of talent and corporate vision on that record should be at least noticed, if nothing else MJ could get people onboard...hell even in court.
Not questioning Quincy and Bruce's contribution one bit.

Just sayin' that MJ was not a fly on the wall. They were a team. Probably the best team ever.

I do find it funny that people would knock MJ for being so commercial.

There is absolutely NOTHING harder to do in this business then to be as commercial as MJ was, and still have your songs "Hold Up" to this day.

Timeless Pop music is supposed to be an Oxymoron.

And it is. Today.

It wasn't for Michael Jackson.
Old 26th June 2009
  #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by illacov View Post
It wasn't a person alive who didn't know and love MJs stuff in the 80s.

I mean what a unifying musical force. When Punk rockers were still enjoying their overthrow of Disco, here comes MJ.

You haven't lived til you see kids with Pink Mohawks, kids dressed like Breakin, Bloods and Crips and police officers, ALL DANCING TO Michael Jackson on a street corner!
I was a kid in the early 80s, too, and what I witnessed was this: Most of the black kids and Hispanic kids loved MJ, and most of the white kids who loved pop and disco loved him, too. The rock/metal guys, punks, folkies, and alternative guys (like myself) rarely liked him. Now, most of us didn't hate him. I mean, he wasn't evil like Lionel Richie or Kenny Rodgers. But, in general, his music was recognized for what it was: Slickly-produced, sugary product whose allure (if any) wore off after a few listens. In other words, the perfect music for fourteen year-olds. But not music to be taken seriously.
Old 26th June 2009
  #219
N88
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I met him in Hollywood. He was a nice guy. No pretensions.
Old 26th June 2009
  #220
I still use some of his thriller songs to measure the PA on live-venues before a gig.

well.. thriller was it. the ultimate pop/rock album at this time.

and don't forget his jennefer batton
Old 26th June 2009
  #221
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larry b's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by illacov View Post
...I mean what a unifying musical force. When Punk rockers were still enjoying their overthrow of Disco, here comes MJ.

You haven't lived til you see kids with Pink Mohawks, kids dressed like Breakin, Bloods and Crips and police officers, ALL DANCING TO Michael Jackson on a street corner! The cops you would think, should have asked them to turn that **** down, but instead it was turn that **** UP!

I saw **** like that as a kid in the 80s.

Trust me, that wasn't commercial, that was music at its heart being a transcedent force that touched all people in some connective way that made them forget their differences. It was crazy....
thumbsupthumbsup

In terms of his production... lets bear in mind that Thriller theoretically could have been produced by several other great, legendary producers. It would have sounded different, but i'm willing to bet we'd all still love it.

MJ made MJ great. Those around him only helped it happen.


That is my opinion at least.
Old 26th June 2009
  #222
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Maybe all the MJ lovers will lay in their beds dreaming of his great artistic TOP 40 DANCE MUSIC, and they'll BEAT IT, Just BEAT IT.

Notice all the tear jerkers were young when Thriller came out and they think that was great music. the older guys were listening to real music when they grew up, Zeplin, Stones, Beatles, Doors, Joplin, actual real, individual music, not top 40 dance garbage. You young kids cry and get all your tears out now, you'll be dreaming of him walking along doing the Billy Jeam video, and thinking it was the equivalent of the Stones and the Beatles, laughable, just laughable.

What this thread really shows is the great gulf between age groups on this forum. We older guys grew up listeing to the Who, the Beatels, Zep, the Stones, while you young kids think the Top 40 dance crap was real artsitic music. More power to you, cry your eyes out then, by all means. us older guys think that Thriller was the beginning of the end of real music, with real guitars and real drums, doing real rock&roll. How sad that anyone can put MJ on the same level as the Stones, the Beatles, Zeplin, Hendrix.... It's just sad that the kids don't know what their real Rock&roll heritage is. Yeah, top 40 dance stuff like Thriller is just classic Jam, sure, lol. This thread is really about young guys tryng to tell older guys what real artistic music is, it's a generation gap thread, that's what it is. Hmm, Thriller, or Allman brothers live at the Filmore, I'll take the Allman brothers every day of the week, to bad you kids don't know the difference between the two.
Old 26th June 2009
  #223
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Sounds Great's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia View Post
I'd bet that Bruce and Quincy would confirm my opinion.

MJ was a genius (during that time) and had a lot to do with that record's brilliance.
How true. Great producers, engineers, and tools sure help to get a world class sound. But without the man behind the microphone, it all amounts to zip.
Old 26th June 2009
  #224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffguitar View Post
Maybe all the MJ lovers will lay in their beds dreaming of his great artistic TOP 40 DANCE MUSIC, and they'll BEAT IT, Just BEAT IT.

Notice all the tear jerkers were young when Thriller came out and they think that was great music. the older guys were listening to real music when they grew up, Zeplin, Stones, Beatles, Doors, Joplin, actual real, individual music, not top 40 dance garbage. You young kids cry and get all your tears out now, you'll be dreaming of him walking along doing the Billy Jeam video, and thinking it was the equivalent of the Stones and the Beatles, laughable, just laughable.

What this thread really shows is the great gulf between age groups on this forum. We older guys grew up listeing to the Who, the Beatels, Zep, the Stones, while you young kids think the Top 40 dance crap was real artsitic music. More power to you, cry your eyes out then, by all means. us older guys think that Thriller was the beginning of the end of real music, with real guitars and real drums, doing real rock&roll. How sad that anyone can put MJ on the same level as the Stones, the Beatles, Zeplin, Hendrix.... It's just sad that the kids don't know what their real Rock&roll heritage is. Yeah, top 40 dance stuff like Thriller is just classic Jam, sure, lol. This thread is really about young guys tryng to tell older guys what real artistic music is, it's a generation gap thread, that's what it is. Hmm, Thriller, or Allman brothers live at the Filmore, I'll take the Allman brothers every day of the week, to bad you kids don't know the difference between the two.

whoa dude, like, wasn't their someone around before the Beatles, Stones, Zep, etc etc... for sure! what do you think your elders thought of The Who, with Pete T throwing his guitar into his amp? It's too bad Hendrix didn't play clarinet like Benny Goodman, what a waste.

show some real perspective.
Old 26th June 2009
  #225
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R.I.P Michael.
Old 26th June 2009
  #226
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Sounds Great's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffguitar View Post
Maybe all the MJ lovers will lay in their beds dreaming of his great artistic TOP 40 DANCE MUSIC, and they'll BEAT IT, Just BEAT IT.

Notice all the tear jerkers were young when Thriller came out and they think that was great music. the older guys were listening to real music when they grew up, Zeplin, Stones, Beatles, Doors, Joplin, actual real, individual music, not top 40 dance garbage. You young kids cry and get all your tears out now, you'll be dreaming of him walking along doing the Billy Jeam video, and thinking it was the equivalent of the Stones and the Beatles, laughable, just laughable.

What this thread really shows is the great gulf between age groups on this forum. We older guys grew up listeing to the Who, the Beatels, Zep, the Stones, while you young kids think the Top 40 dance crap was real artsitic music. More power to you, cry your eyes out then, by all means. us older guys think that Thriller was the beginning of the end of real music, with real guitars and real drums, doing real rock&roll. How sad that anyone can put MJ on the same level as the Stones, the Beatles, Zeplin, Hendrix.... It's just sad that the kids don't know what their real Rock&roll heritage is. Yeah, top 40 dance stuff like Thriller is just classic Jam, sure, lol. This thread is really about young guys tryng to tell older guys what real artistic music is, it's a generation gap thread, that's what it is. Hmm, Thriller, or Allman brothers live at the Filmore, I'll take the Allman brothers every day of the week, to bad you kids don't know the difference between the two.
What ARE you talking about? There are people of ALL ages that recognize talent and good music when they hear them. And who are you to be talking for all of us "older guys"?

This thread is amazing.
Old 26th June 2009
  #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiogeek View Post
whoa dude, like, wasn't their someone around before the Beatles, Stones, Zep, etc etc... for sure! what do you think your elders thought of The Who, with Pete T throwing his guitar into his amp? It's too bad Hendrix didn't play clarinet like Benny Goodman, what a waste.

show some real perspective.
Right on point!

thumbsupthumbsup

Talent is talent. Regardless of the era. There are those who had it, and those who didnt.

Anyone who has sold as many records as MJ......had it.
Old 26th June 2009
  #228
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Although I'm not a Michael Jackson fan (at all) there are a couple of magic moments I can relate, the backing vocals and bass for Earth Song, I thought are incredibly powerful and moving, and the way Michael does the call > response, just incredible. Neither am I a Nancy Grace fan, but tonight felt her take on things was appropriate for the way I feel - but...

Out of a genuine respect for Gearslutz members who are in their hour of loss, I offer a reaquaintance for anyone who is interested in The Kübler-Ross grief cycle:

Quote:
Shock stage: Initial paralysis at hearing the bad news.

Denial stage: Trying to avoid the inevitable.

Anger stage: Frustrated outpouring of bottled-up emotion.

Bargaining stage: Seeking in vain for a way out.

Depression stage: Final realization of the inevitable.

Testing stage: Seeking realistic solutions.

Acceptance stage: Finally finding the way forward.

Last edited by JoeyM; 26th June 2009 at 06:48 AM.. Reason: little things
Old 26th June 2009
  #229
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Johnny Favorite's Avatar
 

Quote:
I mean what a unifying musical force.
R.I.P. Michael.
Old 26th June 2009
  #230
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jpupo74's Avatar
I was here!
Old 26th June 2009
  #231
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GYang's Avatar
RIP King of Pop
Reality of life.
Old 26th June 2009
  #232
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Continental's Avatar
 

R.I.P Michael

:(
Old 26th June 2009
  #233
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For instance, watch this video, then watch the Billy Jeam video. Which one has more artistic content? If you say Billy Jean does, you are either..., well, do I have to say it?
YouTube - Allman Brothers - In Memory of Elizabeth Reed - 1970
Old 26th June 2009
  #234
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audiogeek's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia View Post
I know you're trying to fight the good fight but if he has no one to argue with, his stench will not be spread across this thread. Let it go.

On a side note,

Is it safe to say that we'll never have another "Thriller" quality record again?

I had the chance to hear the multitrack and it was the sickest thing I ever heard on tape.

Ridiculous.
WOW you lucky man. that's actually the kind of thing i'd probably talk to my grandkids about. seriously.

No, I really can't see another "Thriller" caliber album coming out ever again. It was such a time-specific phenomenon. the modern pop star is really a totally different animal than what MJ was; he was such a self-made performer, putting every bit of his being into his art. i just can't think of a single person like that since 1990 or so... and the musical/cultural climate is so rife with postmodern irony now. MJ was 100% genuine trailblazer.
Old 26th June 2009
  #235
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GYang's Avatar
Well, RIP Farrah Fawcett.
She was icon, too.
Much nicer also.
Old 26th June 2009
  #236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffguitar View Post
For instance, watch this video, then watch the Billy Jeam video. Which one has more artistic content? If you say Billy Jean does, you are either..., well, do I have to say it?
YouTube - Allman Brothers - In Memory of Elizabeth Reed - 1970
Two completely different flavors. It's like comparing Jack Daniels Whisky to Mountain Dew. Not everyone likes to drink JD but that doesn't mean that JD isn't a popular whisky. And I'll bet that the majority of JD drinkers aren't big consumers of Mountain Dew. So what?

Is there a point to your post? Are we trying to place numeric values on the artistic talent of all musicians for comparison sake? Get real.
Old 26th June 2009
  #237
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R.I.P

Never was a fan but I do acknowledge his contributions to the music industry and his dedication to his craft.
Old 26th June 2009
  #238
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lek View Post
I didn't realize how much MJ meant until the deep sadness I felt after I heard the news.
...
Of all the people who I've seen pass in the last 10 or 20 years, this one strangely is piercing my heart. One of the greatest talents you'll have experienced in your lifetime ... gone.. he really touched people all over the world. Every country is going to be weeping.
Huge +1.

Longtime lurker here, but I felt motivated to post. Celebrities pass on all the time, but I can't remember being this down over a musician's death in a long time. Even though MJ had a deeply, tragically disturbed personal life, his musicianship and songwriting are something to be celebrated and remembered. RIP.
Old 26th June 2009
  #239
Gear Nut
stupid post....doesnt matter who has had the most artistic impact on an audience. it isnt a competition to be the most artistic. he touched people through his music and for that he should be remembered.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffguitar View Post
For instance, watch this video, then watch the Billy Jeam video. Which one has more artistic content? If you say Billy Jean does, you are either..., well, do I have to say it?
YouTube - Allman Brothers - In Memory of Elizabeth Reed - 1970
Old 26th June 2009
  #240
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RIP...... to an incredible artist.
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