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RIP Lyle Mays Feb 10th 2020
Old 28th February 2020 | Show parent
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bstapper View Post
What I was told, and this is unsubstantiated second-hand info via a friend who may or may not have the true skinny, was that they actually tried to do a mini tour after The Way Up to see if Lyle could physically hang and it became evident that at least consistent touring wasn't feasible for him any longer.

As a result he went back into software programming.

Hard to believe considering that I personally feel he was one of the most gifted composers in the modern world.

Regardless - my thoughts go out to him and his family. I'm thankful for the three PMG shows I was able to attend. All of them life modifying experiences.
not too far off.
Old 25th April 2020 | Show parent
  #32
Gear Nut
Definitive Lyle Mays gear list folks:

Acoustic pianos- Steinway, Yamaha

EMU Emulator I, II, III

Korg- DW-8000, Trident, Trinity & Triton

Kurzweil- K250, K2000

Oberheim- Four & Eight Voice polyphonic, OBX, SEM

PPG- 2.2, 2.3

Roland- A-80, D-50?, JX-10

SCI Prophet- 5, T8

Synclavier

Voyetra 8

Yamaha- CP-80, CS-80

A few notes to add to this list:
He didn't really use any controllers to speak of except of course the roland that wasn't used much which I think he midi'd to the d50 not sure if at all. Some say he used a k2500 if he did I never saw it. The obx was used briefly so the roadies didn't have lug around the polyphonics & sems later replaced by the prophet 5. The Synclavier was Pat's; voyetra just in the studio along with the ppg's, cs-80 & t8. The cp-80 was not used much since Lyle was an acoustic piano guy, notably he never used a DX7. No ARPs, Fairlights, Moogs or even Rhodes to speak of either that l know of he might of tooled around on them at some point but it's unclear. He was known to have said that he was not to fond of programming he just liked to play.
The world has lost one of the greats in Lyle May's his gentle, humble,soft spoken & unassuming manner will be sorely missed. His impact on jazz keyboard playing & music in general is genius and unmeasurable but you'd never hear him acknowledge it he was just that way one of the good guys in this biz. Rest in peace my friend I know you're playin' that grand piano in the sky at heaven gate dude.

Last edited by agstreyiii; 25th April 2020 at 08:07 AM.. Reason: left something out
Old 25th April 2020 | Show parent
  #33
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massimo's Avatar
 

Please add to that list the Oberheim Xpander
Old 25th April 2020
  #34
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First I've seen the D-50 listed among his gear. There's another list I've seen that fills in a few gaps:

Emulator E4
Korg DW-8000
Korg Triton Classic (61-Key)
Korg Triton Pro (76-Key)
Korg Triton Studio (76-Key)
Korg Wavestation rack module
Kurzweil K250 (Lyle consulted on its development)
Kurzweil K2000
Kurzweil K2500
Kurzweil K2500R VAST Synthesizer Sampler Module
New England Digital Synclavier II
Oberheim DMX Drum Machine
Oberheim Four Voice (he combined it with a second Oberheim Four Voice in the mid 1980s to get eight voices)
Oberheim Xpander
Rhodes Chroma
Roland JV2080
Roland Super JX-10
Sequential Circuits Prophet-5 Rev 2
Yamaha AN1x
Yamaha CP-30 electric piano
Yamaha Disklavier grand piano
Yamaha RM1x Sequence Remixer
Yamaha SK-15 organ
Yamaha YC-20 organ
Yamaha VL-1
Old 26th April 2020
  #35
Gear Nut
ive heard of pat methaney and been a fan for years. Listening to the Wichita album has really impressed me, and annoyed me i didnt find it before, or seek it willingly.

Amazing.

I feel like a whole world opened up to me, like hearing Miles, Monk, or Bird for the first time. This player was an astounding player but more importantly, as as drummer, his chordal and rhythmic bed he laid on some of these tracks... for the solists, and how his interplay between rhythmn section is glorius.

I m having a rush of creative energy and this is due to 10 minutes of the first track off witchita.


Herbie does it differnet , not better, but this guys style, not choices, and his interplay is immediately recognizable for my ears. Next 3 days off... Im gonna dig deep.
Old 7th May 2020 | Show parent
  #36
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belldog View Post
First I've seen the D-50 listed among his gear. There's another list I've seen that fills in a few gaps:

Emulator E4
Korg DW-8000
Korg Triton Classic (61-Key)
Korg Triton Pro (76-Key)
Korg Triton Studio (76-Key)
Korg Wavestation rack module
Kurzweil K250 (Lyle consulted on its development)
Kurzweil K2000
Kurzweil K2500
Kurzweil K2500R VAST Synthesizer Sampler Module
New England Digital Synclavier II
Oberheim DMX Drum Machine
Oberheim Four Voice (he combined it with a second Oberheim Four Voice in the mid 1980s to get eight voices)
Oberheim Xpander
Rhodes Chroma
Roland JV2080
Roland Super JX-10
Sequential Circuits Prophet-5 Rev 2
Yamaha AN1x
Yamaha CP-30 electric piano
Yamaha Disklavier grand piano
Yamaha RM1x Sequence Remixer
Yamaha SK-15 organW
Yamaha YC-20 organ
Yamaha VL-1
Yeah you're right I forgot about the Xpander, Wavestation & the Yamaha organs which he did use extensively. Wasn't aware of the Chroma or VL-1 either also my list didn't include any rack modules just keys. Either way having both lists here together in detail is even more definitive and just give's more credence to the man's chops & genius folks. Thanx for filling in the gaps dude.
Old 8th May 2020 | Show parent
  #37
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Man, I can't believe I didn't hear ANYTHING about this. I was searching for some new Metheny and saw the tragic news...only a few days ago.....I really feel like a total heel!

This has been a crap year. Peart was a HUGE influence and Mays was a HUGE inspiration. To know that I will never hear a new composition or hear him play with such emotion really makes me sad, sad, sad.

RIP Lyle. Your recordings will live on for a very long time.

Btw, all you young aspiring pianist....listen to this guy. His dynamic prowess is amazing!

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Old 26th June 2020 | Show parent
  #38
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santibanks's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by agstreyiii View Post
Yeah you're right I forgot about the Xpander, Wavestation & the Yamaha organs which he did use extensively. Wasn't aware of the Chroma or VL-1 either also my list didn't include any rack modules just keys. Either way having both lists here together in detail is even more definitive and just give's more credence to the man's chops & genius folks. Thanx for filling in the gaps dude.
Roland S760 was used as well (it's in his rack in the 90ies).

Other items:
Opcode Studio 5LX
Custom made midi mapper for the Oberheim 4voice (i found an article about it years ago and I believe even the sourcecode was included, but cannot find it on my old harddrives)
Lexicon PCM70 and 80 effect units (you can see them in the rack which is behind him on stage).
Roland & Yamaha sequencers (have to check out the exact models)
Fender Rhodes
Roland G808 guitar (Roots of Coincidence)

I think the Spectrasonics Heart of Asia sample cd was used on Imaginary Day.
The JX10 holds a lot of Lyle Mays sounds, some are tweaks of presets. It's pretty easy to get the sounds from late 80ies/throughout the 90ies. I remember programming them in a JX8p VST.
The techno bass sound for Roots of Coincidence is from the JV2080 (it's a factory preset)
Yamaha VL1 was used on We live here (it's on his right on the tour).

I did see a picture yesterday of him in what looked like his homestudio. There were 2 oberheim 4 voice synths there.

Very fortunate to have seen him on the 2010 Pat Metheny Group Songbook festival tour. I remember him playing an amazing solo for Proof. Too bad it was only an hour set (North Sea Jazz) and that it was a quartet setting. Still, happy to have seen that.
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agstreyiii View Post
Definitive Lyle Mays gear list folks:

Acoustic pianos- Steinway, Yamaha

EMU Emulator I, II, III

Korg- DW-8000, Trident, Trinity & Triton

Kurzweil- K250, K2000

Oberheim- Four & Eight Voice polyphonic, OBX, SEM

PPG- 2.2, 2.3

Roland- A-80, D-50?, JX-10

SCI Prophet- 5, T8

Synclavier

Voyetra 8

Yamaha- CP-80, CS-80

A few notes to add to this list:
He didn't really use any controllers to speak of except of course the roland that wasn't used much which I think he midi'd to the d50 not sure if at all. Some say he used a k2500 if he did I never saw it. The obx was used briefly so the roadies didn't have lug around the polyphonics & sems later replaced by the prophet 5. The Synclavier was Pat's; voyetra just in the studio along with the ppg's, cs-80 & t8. The cp-80 was not used much since Lyle was an acoustic piano guy, notably he never used a DX7. No ARPs, Fairlights, Moogs or even Rhodes to speak of either that l know of he might of tooled around on them at some point but it's unclear. He was known to have said that he was not to fond of programming he just liked to play.
The world has lost one of the greats in Lyle May's his gentle, humble,soft spoken & unassuming manner will be sorely missed. His impact on jazz keyboard playing & music in general is genius and unmeasurable but you'd never hear him acknowledge it he was just that way one of the good guys in this biz. Rest in peace my friend I know you're playin' that grand piano in the sky at heaven gate dude.
I just joined this forum, looking for more info on Lyle's gear. What a genius he was!

I'm curious to know where you got your information from, since after following Lyle for decades, many of these are things I've never heard of him playing. There are very few photos of him in the studio, so if he has used many of the synths you mention in the studio but not on the road, I'll have to take your word for it. But back in the ECM days (until 1984), he said he used the same setup in the studio that he did live. After that he had better opportunities to take advantage of the studio.

I originally compiled the list that Belldog shared above a few years ago. After more research I've expanded that list a bit. The list below I've come up with based on album liner notes, photos, videos, interviews, and sales of Lyle's equipment.

Keyboards
  • Fender Rhodes Mark II Suitcase
  • Hohner Clavinet E7
  • Korg DW-8000
  • Korg Triton Classic (61-Key)
  • Korg Triton Pro (76-Key)
  • Korg Triton Studio (76-Key)
  • Kurzweil K250
  • Kurzweil K2000
  • Kurzweil K2500
  • New England Digital Synclavier II (owned by Pat Metheny)
  • Oberheim Eclipse Digital Controller/Piano
  • Oberheim Four Voice (he combined it with a second Oberheim Four Voice in the mid 1980s to get eight voices)
  • Rhodes Chroma
  • Roland Super JX-10
  • Sequential Circuits Prophet-5 Rev 2
  • Wurlitzer 200-series
  • Yamaha AN1x
  • Yamaha CP-30 electric piano
  • Yamaha SK15 Symphonic Ensemble
  • Yamaha YC-20 Combo Organ
  • Yamaha VL-1

Rack
  • Emulator E4
  • Korg DVP-1 Digital Voice Processor
  • Korg Wavestation
  • Kurzweil K2500R VAST Synthesizer Sampler
  • Oberheim DMX Drum Machine
  • Oberheim Matrix-1000
  • Oberheim OB-Mx
  • Oberheim Xpander
  • Roland JV-2080
  • Roland S-760

I'm not including effects, amps, MIDI interfaces and other rack equipment, just the synths.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #40
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santibanks's Avatar
There have been some interviews with Lyle in the keyboard/synth related magazines where you can see pictures of his home setup and live rigs (80ies mostly). Antonio Sanchez actually has a lot of pictures from the PMG studio sessions for Speaking of now and Way Up on his socials. But indeed, some of the synths in the list are completely new to me like the Voyetra, Emulator 1—3, PPGs, OBX, A80, D50, DVP, Matrix, Matrix1000, I really doubt that he used those and have never encountered credible sources for those during my years of investigating his rigs.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #41
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by santibanks View Post
There have been some interviews with Lyle in the keyboard/synth related magazines where you can see pictures of his home setup and live rigs (80ies mostly). Antonio Sanchez actually has a lot of pictures from the PMG studio sessions for Speaking of now and Way Up on his socials. But indeed, some of the synths in the list are completely new to me like the Voyetra, Emulator 1—3, PPGs, OBX, A80, D50, DVP, Matrix, Matrix1000, I really doubt that he used those and have never encountered credible sources for those during my years of investigating his rigs.
I really doubt that didn't use all gear listed (if not more) He had all the state of the art stuff in the studio like the voyetra & many a rack unit so no telling what he had access to in the studios he was in as far as that goes. l saw him late 80's early 90's he had emulators & ppg's on stage along with korg & roland. The obie was a very temporary thing(obx&obxa)to fill in for the temperamental s.e.m.s. then he got the prophets no more Obie's (except for xpander desk top, probably no matrixs) after that. Then he progressed to kurzweil & synclavier-(Pat's). He liked yamaha organs and steinways never saw him play a rhodes on stage dude
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #42
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santibanks's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by agstreyiii View Post
I really doubt that didn't use all gear listed (if not more) He had all the state of the art stuff in the studio like the voyetra & many a rack unit so no telling what he had access to in the studios he was in as far as that goes. l saw him late 80's early 90's he had emulators & ppg's on stage along with korg & roland. The obie was a very temporary thing(obx&obxa)to fill in for the temperamental s.e.m.s. then he got the prophets no more Obie's (except for xpander desk top, probably no matrixs) after that. Then he progressed to kurzweil & synclavier-(Pat's). He liked yamaha organs and steinways never saw him play a rhodes on stage dude
Well, in the ECM days, the concept is to record the album in 1/2 days and then have a day of mixing. Not much time to experiment with unknown gear available in studios. He got potentially more time to experiment later on when they moved from ECM and had more time to spend in studios (I think they recorded a lot at the Power station in NYC). But the point is that if you hear a sound on record and it is replicated live on stage, it means it's coming from something he has with him.

His live rigs are well documented because there is tons of video and picture material. He didn't use PPGs on stage and I don't hear them on record. He always took the 4voice on all live footage in existence since the late 70ies. I'm now vaguely remembering that he had an emulator 4 in the 90ies on the We live here and Imaginary Day tour (their ultra bright white displays are very easy to recognise) for brass and strings.

Offramp/Travels tours:
Oberheim 4 voice
Grand piano
NED Synclavier
Prophet 5
Yamaha organ
Auto harp (phase dance!)

First Circle/Falcon snowman tours:
Same as Offramp era, add Kurzweil K250's and Rhodes Chroma,
Agogo bells (for Tell it all)

Still life talking tours:
Same as First circle but remove the Synclavier keyboard (I think the rack computer was still in his rig) and Chroma, add the JX10

Letter from home/Road to you cycle (this is basically 4 years of touring):
Kurzweil K250
Oberheim 4 voice + custom mapper interface
Oberheim Expander
Steinway midified grand piano (I believe it was actually Pat's piano, in 1993 he used a midified yamaha as a rental in Japan for the Under the sky festival)
Korg DW8000
Roland JX10

Imaginary Day
Kurzweil K2000
Korg DW8000
Roland JX10
Midified Steinway grand
Opcode Studio 5 LX
Korg Wavestation SR
Roland S760
Roland JV2080
Emu E4 emulator
Yamaha REX50
Lexicon PCM70



The Rhodes he used along with the 4voice for Joni Mitchell's tour (documented on Shadows & Light). The Rhodes is also on PMG Quartet (listen to Sometimes I see), along with the clavinet (which i believe is in some of those experimental songs on Quartet for which i always forget the titles).

Last edited by santibanks; 3 weeks ago at 11:47 AM.. Reason: reflected some of the corrections
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by santibanks View Post
Well, in the ECM days, the concept is to record the album in 1/2 days and then have a day of mixing. Not much time to experiment with unknown gear available in studios. He got potentially more time to experiment later on when they moved from ECM and had more time to spend in studios (I think they recorded a lot at the Power station in NYC). But the point is that if you hear a sound on record and it is replicated live on stage, it means it's coming from something he has with him.

His live rigs are well documented because there is tons of video and picture material. He didn't use PPGs on stage and I don't hear them on record. He always took the 4voice on all live footage in existence since the late 70ies. I'm now vaguely remembering that he had an emulator 4 in the 90ies on the We live here and Imaginary Day tour (their ultra bright white displays are very easy to recognise) for brass and strings.

Offramp/Travels tours:
Oberheim 4 voice
Grand piano
NED Synclavier
Prophet 5
Yamaha organ
Auto harp (phase dance!)

First Circle/Falcon snowman tours:
Same as Offramp era, add 2 Kurzweil K250's
Agogo bells (for Tell it all)

Still life talking tours:
Same as First circle, detract 1 kurzweil, remove the Synclavier keyboard (I think the rack computer was still in his rig) but add the JX10

Letter from home/Road to you cycle (this is basically 4 years of touring):
Kurzweil K250
Oberheim 4 voice + custom mapper interface
Oberheim Expander
Steinway midified grand piano (I believe it was actually Pat's piano, in 1993 he used a midified yamaha as a rental in Japan for the Under the sky festival)
Korg DW8000
Roland JX10


The Rhodes he used along with the 4voice for Joni Mitchell's tour (documented on Shadows & Light). The Rhodes is also on PMG Quartet (listen to Sometimes I see), along with the clavinet (which i believe is in some of those experimental songs on Quartet for which i always forget the titles).
i mixed monitors for pmg on several occasions and i clearly recall a matrix 1000 as i had its output patched to the monitor desk (and steve wasn't much amused when lyle once doubled the bass line).

regarding the ppg, he must have had one in his studio: i heard some ideas he kept and played to his band mates during sound check.

the yamaha grand made it to at least one tour in europe - this was in the mid-90's.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #44
Gear Nut
Never saw him with Joni Mitchell only PMG and he did not play Rhodes with them not on record not on tour. If he played a Rhodes type sound he did it on a synth & it wasn't a DX7. The closest thing for getting that sound convincely then
(other than the Yamaha)was PPG. Emu,Korg or even Roland couldn't quite cut it at the time. Then later he probably used Kurzweil. The Synclavier might be a possibility but l never heard of anyone using the NED in that way. (IMO Kurz's have the best electric pianos then&now) I heard the Voyetra did a pretty good rhodes imitation also. I think he tried to utilize any tool he could access but I do believe he did keep his stage setups minimal. Most of the old live footage from the beginning he just has the autoharp,Four-Voice & Steinway. He did amazing things with just those three instruments hence his true talent. He really didn't need all this gear mentioned but he was open minded to experiment with it and did which is another nod to his immence talent folks. RIP LM
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by santibanks View Post
There have been some interviews with Lyle in the keyboard/synth related magazines where you can see pictures of his home setup and live rigs (80ies mostly). Antonio Sanchez actually has a lot of pictures from the PMG studio sessions for Speaking of now and Way Up on his socials. But indeed, some of the synths in the list are completely new to me like the Voyetra, Emulator 1—3, PPGs, OBX, A80, D50, DVP, Matrix, Matrix1000, I really doubt that he used those and have never encountered credible sources for those during my years of investigating his rigs.
The DVP and Matrix-1000 were sold from Lyle's collection a few years before he passed.

The DVP was probably on Street Dreams, but that's a guess. I don't know when he used the Matrix-1000 either. It's not in the Italian book that details his Letter From Home tour setup.

Also, where did you get the info about 2 K250s? On the First Circle/Falcon tour he had a K250 to his right and the Chroma to his left, in the spot where he would move the K250 on the Still Life tour.

Quote:
Originally Posted by agstreyiii View Post
Never saw him with Joni Mitchell only PMG and he did not play Rhodes with them not on record not on tour. If he played a Rhodes type sound he did it on a synth & it wasn't a DX7. The closest thing for getting that sound convincely then
(other than the Yamaha)was PPG. Emu,Korg or even Roland couldn't quite cut it at the time. Then later he probably used Kurzweil. The Synclavier might be a possibility but l never heard of anyone using the NED in that way. (IMO Kurz's have the best electric pianos then&now) I heard the Voyetra did a pretty good rhodes imitation also. I think he tried to utilize any tool he could access but I do believe he did keep his stage setups minimal. Most of the old live footage from the beginning he just has the autoharp,Four-Voice & Steinway. He did amazing things with just those three instruments hence his true talent. He really didn't need all this gear mentioned but he was open minded to experiment with it and did which is another nod to his immence talent folks. RIP LM
Lyle never played a Rhodes live with the PMG. As @ santibanks wrote, Lyle used the Rhodes on the Quartet album. There's a photo of his setup for that album and it shows a Rhodes Mark II, a Wurlitzer, a Clavinet D7, a celesta and a few other pianos. He didn't use any electronic instruments on that album, just mostly acoustic keyboards and occasionally electric keyboards. He played the Rhodes a lot in the 1970s, just not with the PMG.

When he did play Rhodes-type piano sounds with the PMG (and on the Street Dreams album), they were almost always from Kurzweils. They sound like Kurzweil samples and are never convincing as a Rhodes (not that they're supposed to be). In the mid-80s he often used a Rhodes Chroma in an electric piano manner (on Tell It All and Highland Aire), though it was never a Rhodes-type sound.

Just about everything @ santibanks says matches my notes.

You're right that Lyle didn't need any of this fancy gear. He could do all the orchestration he needed to on the piano alone if he wanted.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agstreyiii View Post
Never saw him with Joni Mitchell only PMG and he did not play Rhodes with them not on record not on tour.
While if he used the PPG or Matrix1000 is certainly a point of discussion, that he used the Rhodes is pretty evidently so I'm not certain why you still claim Lyle didn't play the Rhodes (with the PMG, on record or in the studio) with hard evidence speaking on the contrary.

But ok here is a picture of Lyle recording in NYC. The album is Quartet from 1996. Also pictured here are an out of tune Spinet piano (When we were free), the Clavinet I listed earlier, a Harmonium, and even a Wurlitzer.

He used a sampled sound of a Rhodes in Roots of coincidence (1997). I think it's from the JV2080. I'm not sure if the Rhodes sound on The Way Up (2005) was a real one or from his Korgs/Omnisphere. I think the latter.
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Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by classicaljazz View Post

The DVP was probably on Street Dreams, but that's a guess. I don't know when he used the Matrix-1000 either. It's not in the Italian book that details his Letter From Home tour setup.
I'm really puzzled by the DVP because it basically is a vocoder (and not a really good one I have to add). The only internal sound it has is a choir like sound and it's even worse sounding than the choirs the Roland VP330+ produced (I have samples of it here).

Quote:
Also, where did you get the info about 2 K250s? On the First Circle/Falcon tour he had a K250 to his right and the Chroma to his left, in the spot where he would move the K250 on the Still Life tour.
There is a video somewhere shot in Germany on the First Circle/Falcon Snowman tour. I think it's called Pat Metheny Group in Hamburg or something. It shows parts of the soundchecks and Lyle demonstrating his rig. Those are two K250's. He never took the Chroma with him on the road as far as I know (but it was in his home studio and he did mention it in a keyboard magazine interview from the 80ies, I think around 86/87).

Quote:
When he did play Rhodes-type piano sounds with the PMG (and on the Street Dreams album), they were almost always from Kurzweils.
Street Dreams! Almost forgot about that album (with Chorino on it). TBH, my least favourite of him. Prefer his first or the Trio album with Johnson and DeJohnette. The solo piano record was also interesting, completely different in it's conception than the usual jazz solo piano records (like Evans, Monk, Corea, Jarett, etc. have).
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by santibanks View Post
I'm really puzzled by the DVP because it basically is a vocoder (and not a really good one I have to add). The only internal sound it has is a choir like sound and it's even worse sounding than the choirs the Roland VP330+ produced (I have samples of it here).


There is a video somewhere shot in Germany on the First Circle/Falcon Snowman tour. I think it's called Pat Metheny Group in Hamburg or something. It shows parts of the soundchecks and Lyle demonstrating his rig. Those are two K250's. He never took the Chroma with him on the road as far as I know (but it was in his home studio and he did mention it in a keyboard magazine interview from the 80ies, I think around 86/87).



Street Dreams! Almost forgot about that album (with Chorino on it). TBH, my least favourite of him. Prefer his first or the Trio album with Johnson and DeJohnette. The solo piano record was also interesting, completely different in it's conception than the usual jazz solo piano records (like Evans, Monk, Corea, Jarett, etc. have).
There is a vocoder on Street Dream, though it's not Lyle's voice. So I'm assuming that's the DVP.

In the Pat Metheny in Deutschland video from 1985, he has a Chroma to the left of his piano, not a K250. See here at 1:32. You can see the Chroma's sliders on the left side of the panel, something the K250 doesn't have.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VF4jJOrx4rU

The colours of the synth don't come through on the video, which is why it resembles a K250. For a clearer shot of the Chroma in concert, see this video from 1983. There's a good shot of him playing it starting at 2:15.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBB9Wlk1EYs&list=PLXhqTXh4yZeyWFUVd5NxstAogOHM77Yn_&index=5


He indeed spoke a lot about the Chroma in that 1986 Keyboard magazine interview.

Street Dreams also not my favourite of Lyle's own albums, but it has some amazing moments. Street Dreams 2 is one of my favourite things Lyle did. Are you sure the Chroma is on it? I don't have any information confirming it one way or the other. If so, I assume that would mean he had it for the Still Life album as well.

As for the electric piano sounds on The Way Up, Lyle used electric piano sounds from all of his different synths and programmed them to cycle through each one as he played. He mentioned this in an interview he did at the time the album was released. It's similar in concept to how his old Oberheim FVS could cycle through different sounds.
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by classicaljazz View Post
There is a vocoder on Street Dream, though it's not Lyle's voice. So I'm assuming that's the DVP.
Seems like a logical fit.

Quote:
The colours of the synth don't come through on the video, which is why it resembles a K250. For a clearer shot of the Chroma in concert, see this video from 1983. There's a good shot of him playing it starting at 2:15.
Yes that's the video i'm referring to. Thanks for pointing that out, it really looked like the K250 at first hand.


Quote:
As for the electric piano sounds on The Way Up, Lyle used electric piano sounds from all of his different synths and programmed them to cycle through each one as he played. He mentioned this in an interview he did at the time the album was released. It's similar in concept to how his old Oberheim FVS could cycle through different sounds.
Right, or similar to what a wavesequence is in Korg's world (as introduced on the Wavestation).
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #50
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by santibanks View Post
While if he used the PPG or Matrix1000 is certainly a point of discussion, that he used the Rhodes is pretty evidently so I'm not certain why you still claim Lyle didn't play the Rhodes (with the PMG, on record or in the studio) with hard evidence speaking on the contrary.

But ok here is a picture of Lyle recording in NYC. The album is Quartet from 1996. Also pictured here are an out of tune Spinet piano (When we were free), the Clavinet I listed earlier, a Harmonium, and even a Wurlitzer.

He used a sampled sound of a Rhodes in Roots of coincidence (1997). I think it's from the JV2080. I'm not sure if the Rhodes sound on The Way Up (2005) was a real one or from his Korgs/Omnisphere. I think the latter.
I have quite a collection of PMG vinyl (at least the early stuff some of the later records as well) The Rhodes is not a prominent sound on those recordings. I'm sure he had'em and used them in some way but he did not use them as extensively as others did which was pretty much everyone(I mean they're a definitive instrument in jazz&pop) I liked'em, love that sound had multiple ones & a Wurly too; till I got a Kurzweil then there was no reason to lug those beasts around any more (as did LM with the k250's & K2k's) That's kinda the point here;(more synths than actual rhodes) there's not much footage or many photos that I've seen with him playin'em(rhodes) and not many recordings either. He's definitely more prolific on a Steinway or Yamaha electric organs at least as far as PMG goes. Like u said where's the evidence to the contrary. It doesn't change the fact that he was a musical genius at the keyboard whatever he did in fact utilize thanx dude
Old 3 weeks ago | Show parent
  #51
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Street Dreams also not my favourite of Lyle's own albums, but it has some amazing moments. Street Dreams 2 is one of my favourite things Lyle did.
It's nowhere near as consistent as the first album or "Fictionary," but it has some of my favorite stuff he's done. I love "August" and the title suite. It's a strong outing for Bill Frisell, too, especially since that album in particular always struck me as a sweet spot between his earlier skronk-y stuff (eg., "Strange Meeting," "Smash and Scatteration") and the mellower/more conventional stuff he's been doing in recent years.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #52
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by agstreyiii View Post
I really doubt that didn't use all gear listed (if not more) He had all the state of the art stuff in the studio like the voyetra & many a rack unit so no telling what he had access to in the studios he was in as far as that goes. l saw him late 80's early 90's he had emulators & ppg's on stage along with korg & roland. The obie was a very temporary thing(obx&obxa)to fill in for the temperamental s.e.m.s. then he got the prophets no more Obie's (except for xpander desk top, probably no matrixs) after that. Then he progressed to kurzweil & synclavier-(Pat's). He liked yamaha organs and steinways never saw him play a rhodes on stage dude
I really need to correct you here.

Lyle never had a PPG on stage. Maybe you're confusing it for something else?

The Prophet did not replace the SEM. He got a Four-Voice in 1977 and used it through 1991. You'll see it in any photos and videos of Lyle until 1991. He always had it to the left his piano during those 14 years. In the mid-80s he got a second Four-Voice and had it specially hooked up to the other unit so that he could play four voices with four oscillators each. He got a Prophet 5 in 1979 to add to his synths, not to replace the Oberheim. That was the only Prophet he ever had in his rig, but he had a backup Prophet 5 because it was so temperamental. Lyle really loved the SEMs and said for a long time that he would never give them up. But starting from around 1983 he only used it for warm saw pads and nothing else.

Lyle never played Rhodes on stage with the PMG, but if you want to see Lyle on Rhodes here's a great video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GLJCZ5L2sQ

On what album can I hear Lyle playing a Voyetra?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #53
Gear Nut
That's probably so maybe it was something else like a K250/K2k or the NED. I think I mean't that he might have tried the PPG or Voyetra for Rhodes like sounds because I heard they were pretty good at it at the time in lieu of an actual one. Then later on the Kurzweil or Synclavier to get the sound of the Fender.
I don't think he got it with the Prophet it might've been Xpander since it's the only Oberheim that could do it decently enough to satisfy him but u sound like you know what you're talking about so I won't argue no worries dude
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #54
Lives for gear
 
santibanks's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by agstreyiii View Post
That's kinda the point here;(more synths than actual rhodes) there's not much footage or many photos that I've seen with him playin'em(rhodes) and not many recordings either. He's definitely more prolific on a Steinway or Yamaha electric organs at least as far as PMG goes. Like u said where's the evidence to the contrary.
I never argued that Lyle didn't use the Rhodes much and didn't have a preference for the acoustic piano (the Steinway to be more precise). Lyle for sure considered the piano to be his main instrument and found the Steinways to be the most sophisticated of them (if you'd ask Zawinul if the piano is his main instrument, i'm not sure if he would answer positive). But while he didn't use it much, he did use it. It's on record and while you might not have picked that out, it doesn't make that statement false.

My kind of "problem" here is your way of arguing. You present a list as the definitive list of what Lyle used. You present statements as fact while they are either without evidence or just plain false, and now you try to bend your statements to make me (and @ classicaljazz ) believe I misunderstood you. So maybe be a bit less persistent here. I'll point out that I believe you come from a position of good faith with good intentions and are just as enthusiastic of Lyle and his work as me and others are.

Let me close with this performance in 2002 at Austin City Limits. I think this solo in Proof is one of the best versions Lyle did:
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #55
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santibanks's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by classicaljazz View Post
I really need to correct you here.

In the mid-80s he got a second Four-Voice and had it specially hooked up to the other unit so that he could play four voices with four oscillators each.
Basically making it an Oberheim Eight voice. I believe there is a picture of it in that Keyboard magazine article from 87 (or was it 86). Wasn't aware that he took the full 8 voice on tour with him. I actually thought he didn't because the midi processor for the Oberheim was focused on 4 voices.

Quote:
But starting from around 1983 he only used it for warm saw pads and nothing else.
Always thought that was because the Oberheim kind of lacks patches so he would need to program 4 modules separately (I know it has some controls which are shared for all modules but that's really limited programming ability). I kinda had the idea he went with the Expander because it has patches and therefor made it easier to get more Oberheim sounds (and have some be sequencer controlled too). That pad sound is great though.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #56
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by santibanks View Post
Basically making it an Oberheim Eight voice. I believe there is a picture of it in that Keyboard magazine article from 87 (or was it 86). Wasn't aware that he took the full 8 voice on tour with him. I actually thought he didn't because the midi processor for the Oberheim was focused on 4 voices.
Yeah, the photo of the two four-voice units is in the July 1986 issue. That's one of the best articles on Lyle.

The second FVS was hidden from sight on stage, but according to an Italian book that details his 1989 rig, there was an additional FVS behind the speakers. I don't think an Eight-Voice could intrinsically play four-voice polyphony with 2 SEMs on each voice like how Lyle's was set up, so I don't think it's quite accurate to call Lyle's two Four-Voices an Eight-Voice (except when in unison mode).

Quote:
Originally Posted by santibanks View Post
Always thought that was because the Oberheim kind of lacks patches so he would need to program 4 modules separately (I know it has some controls which are shared for all modules but that's really limited programming ability). I kinda had the idea he went with the Expander because it has patches and therefor made it easier to get more Oberheim sounds (and have some be sequencer controlled too). That pad sound is great though.
I'm never quite sure what he's using the Xpander for. The earliest I've spotted it in his live rig was on the 1985 tour. I'm not sure if he had it in September 1984 when he recorded The Falcon and the Snowman. He must have used it for some of those dense pads that we hear on Are We There Yet on Letter From Home. And I'd imagine he probably blended some of those sounds with Kurzweil horn pads to thicken them up on Still Life. There's a video from 1987 where he's playing the DW8000 at the end of Third Wind, and I think he's playing both the K250 and the Xpander through that at the same time. He might have recreated some of the Chroma's sounds on it as well because the sounds he used on the Chroma on First Circle had to come from somewhere else after he got rid of the Chroma, unless he sampled the Chroma. But that's all just a guess.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #57
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santibanks's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by classicaljazz View Post
I don't think an Eight-Voice could intrinsically play four-voice polyphony with 2 SEMs on each voice like how Lyle's was set up, so I don't think it's quite accurate to call Lyle's two Four-Voices an Eight-Voice (except when in unison mode).
Good point. The 8V is basically a 4 with added polyphony (which makes for a bigger unison). Can't remember what kind of extra trigger abilities the keyboard had. But I can imagine that it is possible this way to layer 2 sounds and still have 4 voice polyphony.

Quote:
I'm never quite sure what he's using the Xpander for.
My assumption is basically anything. Pads, sound effects, "lead" sounds. Not just for him to play live, but also often driven by a sequencer.

His signature lead sound comes in many flavours and he uses them all. Third wind is a good example (as you pointed out). Some of these leads are sequenced and I can imagine that the Xpander would be used for that.

The DW8000 is used for his organ sounds (as well as some pads, harmonica). I remember that there is organ at the end of Third Wind (at least in the 1991 version I heard yesterday).

On his first solo album, there is a song called "Northern lights" which has this kind of sequenced/sample&hold like sound. Could be the Xpander as well as I've heard Lyle trigger this sound also sometimes in Scrap Metal (depending on the gig).

On the topic of Italy; many years ago there was an eBay auction in Italy for a JX10 which had a cartridge programmed with Lyle's sounds. I had a conversation with the seller and he explained it was a rental unit which was rented to Lyle on a European tour in the 90ies and therefor the sounds were programmed at Lyle's request. I sadly never found out who bought it. Would have loved a copy of that cartridge.
Some of the factory patches of the JX10/JX8P can be modified easily to sounds and sound effects Lyle used.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #58
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by santibanks View Post
I never argued that Lyle didn't use the Rhodes much and didn't have a preference for the acoustic piano (the Steinway to be more precise). Lyle for sure considered the piano to be his main instrument and found the Steinways to be the most sophisticated of them (if you'd ask Zawinul if the piano is his main instrument, i'm not sure if he would answer positive). But while he didn't use it much, he did use it. It's on record and while you might not have picked that out, it doesn't make that statement false.

My kind of "problem" here is your way of arguing. You present a list as the definitive list of what Lyle used. You present statements as fact while they are either without evidence or just plain false, and now you try to bend your statements to make me (and @ classicaljazz ) believe I misunderstood you. So maybe be a bit less persistent here. I'll point out that I believe you come from a position of good faith with good intentions and are just as enthusiastic of Lyle and his work as me and others are.

Let me close with this performance in 2002 at Austin City Limits. I think this solo in Proof is one of the best versions Lyle did:
Uh it's ok bud I guess I was little 'persistent' in my statements maybe my using the word 'definitive' was a bit to bold in describing his gear but I wasn't trying to 'mislead' anyone by just stating possibilities of good way's that Rhodes sound could have emulated by him before he got into using the Kurzweil & Synclavier respectfully. I'll take ur word for it and have no 'problems' with what's been put down here it's all good info that I wasn't completely aware of so I won't belabor it . I appreciate your sentiment of recognizing that my imense admiration of the man's talent may have made mouth run away with my brain in wonderment of the beautiful tones & sounds that he discovered from the instruments & equipment that were used with tremendous care & skill by him. A quick synopsis of the brands & models that we all can/could agree on that were mainly utilized(just desk&keys) :EMU Emulators 2or3? Korg DW-8000,Trident,Trinity,Triton Kurzweil K250, K2k NED Synclavier Oberheim 4&8 voice, Xpander Rhodes Chroma Roland JX-10 SCI Prophet-5 Steinway Yamaha organs & VL1. Hope this list is more acceptable or accessable as I sincerely hope that it's a better representation of gear that he used obstensibly not as a misconstrued concession but maybe just a comphrensive seminal compilation humbly of course only if you say so. The video that was posted is great as I had not seen it no worries thanx dudes.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #59
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by santibanks View Post
Good point. The 8V is basically a 4 with added polyphony (which makes for a bigger unison). Can't remember what kind of extra trigger abilities the keyboard had. But I can imagine that it is possible this way to layer 2 sounds and still have 4 voice polyphony.


My assumption is basically anything. Pads, sound effects, "lead" sounds. Not just for him to play live, but also often driven by a sequencer.

His signature lead sound comes in many flavours and he uses them all. Third wind is a good example (as you pointed out). Some of these leads are sequenced and I can imagine that the Xpander would be used for that.

The DW8000 is used for his organ sounds (as well as some pads, harmonica). I remember that there is organ at the end of Third Wind (at least in the 1991 version I heard yesterday).

On his first solo album, there is a song called "Northern lights" which has this kind of sequenced/sample&hold like sound. Could be the Xpander as well as I've heard Lyle trigger this sound also sometimes in Scrap Metal (depending on the gig).

On the topic of Italy; many years ago there was an eBay auction in Italy for a JX10 which had a cartridge programmed with Lyle's sounds. I had a conversation with the seller and he explained it was a rental unit which was rented to Lyle on a European tour in the 90ies and therefor the sounds were programmed at Lyle's request. I sadly never found out who bought it. Would have loved a copy of that cartridge.
Some of the factory patches of the JX10/JX8P can be modified easily to sounds and sound effects Lyle used.
That's also what I gathered for his use of the DW8000. At the end of Third Wind in live performances he usually was playing Kurzweil horns mixed with a sawtooth pad via the MIDI piano. I suppose that pad could have come from either the DW8000 or the Xpander, but I'm thinking the Xpander is more likely. If he didn't have the MIDI piano he was stuck doing something else.

Lyle's own JX10 was sold a few years ago to Gabriel Santiago, but I haven't been able to get much information out of him about it so far. He's done some tributes to Lyle using it.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #60
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by agstreyiii View Post
Uh it's ok bud I guess I was little 'persistent' in my statements maybe my using the word 'definitive' was a bit to bold in describing his gear but I wasn't trying to 'mislead' anyone by just stating possibilities of good way's that Rhodes sound could have emulated by him before he got into using the Kurzweil & Synclavier respectfully. I'll take ur word for it and have no 'problems' with what's been put down here it's all good info that I wasn't completely aware of so I won't belabor it . I appreciate your sentiment of recognizing that my imense admiration of the man's talent may have made mouth run away with my brain in wonderment of the beautiful tones & sounds that he discovered from the instruments & equipment that were used with tremendous care & skill by him. A quick synopsis of the brands & models that we all can/could agree on that were mainly utilized(just desk&keys) :EMU Emulators 2or3? Korg DW-8000,Trident,Trinity,Triton Kurzweil K250, K2k NED Synclavier Oberheim 4&8 voice, Xpander Rhodes Chroma Roland JX-10 SCI Prophet-5 Steinway Yamaha organs & VL1. Hope this list is more acceptable or accessable as I sincerely hope that it's a better representation of gear that he used obstensibly not as a misconstrued concession but maybe just a comphrensive seminal compilation humbly of course only if you say so. The video that was posted is great as I had not seen it no worries thanx dudes.
I also appreciate your love of Lyle. That's why we're all here. I've still never heard of Lyle using the Emulator 2 and 3 (only the E4) or the Trident or Trinity. He did have three different Tritons, though, after using the DW-8000 for about 13 years. I can promise you that the list I shared in my first post is a definitive list as I can back up my sources for every item listed there if you question them, though there could definitely be more rack synths that it's missing. As for the Rhodes sounds, Lyle never used a Rhodes-like sound before getting the K250 (which he got some time in 1984), unless he was using a real Rhodes (which he did in groups other than the PMG). He did use some vibes-like patches on the Synclavier in 1982 in the Travels album, if that's one of the sounds you're thinking of.
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