Komplete 10 and "new" Kontrol S keyboards from Native Instruments soon???
Old 30th August 2014
  #271
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldred411 View Post
Lol, well it's got a fatar Keybed , scale mapping . 1 fingered chords
Says its going to be released in October. Doesn't say much about Komplete. the price is inline with previous versions.
Old 30th August 2014
  #272
Komplete 10?
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Old 30th August 2014
  #273
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Now you're just boring with that gag, man.
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Old 30th August 2014
  #274
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Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Now you're just boring with that gag, man.
I'll see if I can do better. But if all NI has to offer is a few new synths and a couple of piano samples, this gag will be in good company. ;-)
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Old 30th August 2014
  #275
Old 30th August 2014
  #276
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zerocrossing's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polarelch View Post
*Noone* has a *good* midi keyboard yet. There are none. There's still hope...
Who's Noone? Why don't they just get a good MIDI keyboard? There are a few great ones around.
Old 30th August 2014
  #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsutek View Post
M E H
No new versions of the flagship apps.. some new pianos and a few reaktor ensembles.. And who doesn't already have a MIDI keyboard?
Still no reason to go komplete for me..
Yeah, this is pretty disappointing, but I'm not sure why it is because I pretty much expect to be disappointed when NI releases a new version of Komplete.

I have a Remote 61, Remote SL25, Push and Maschine. I should probably sell the Remotes and get a 61 SL MkII, but there's no pressing need for that IMO. The new Native Instruments boards look woefully under knobbed and while they may be nice keyboards, I doubt they're better than the Novations.

So... I skipped Kontakt v9 but intended on getting v10 when it came out. Maybe I'll wait for a Christmas sale or something because there's nothing super exciting about what I'm currently seeing from them. Shame on them for not at least updating a single major instrument.
Old 30th August 2014
  #278
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Yoozer's Avatar
A Virus TI keys is a great controller, but I don't need the built-in synth, and the knobs could be a good deal more generic.
Old 30th August 2014
  #279
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
Yeah, this is pretty disappointing, but I'm not sure why it is because I pretty much expect to be disappointed when NI releases a new version of Komplete.

I have a Remote 61, Remote SL25, Push and Maschine. I should probably sell the Remotes and get a 61 SL MkII, but there's no pressing need for that IMO. The new Native Instruments boards look woefully under knobbed and while they may be nice keyboards, I doubt they're better than the Novations.

So... I skipped Kontakt v9 but intended on getting v10 when it came out. Maybe I'll wait for a Christmas sale or something because there's nothing super exciting about what I'm currently seeing from them. Shame on them for not at least updating a single major instrument.
sometimes. most of the time lately. I've been using NI products since 2006, and was really impressed with them then. I've been using Komplete since version 6.
They have always been able to have a "cherry" in the group that I tell myself. I really want that! So I buy it. I'm willing to wait until next week to see whats being presented. however so far, I'm not in the market for anything I've seen. Your results my differ.
Old 30th August 2014
  #280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWAN808 View Post
looks cool. Only problem is - I HATE most NI software. I really dont know how they managed to corner the market like they have done.
Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothjazz View Post
i agree 100% lol
All their synth offerings sound BLAND as hell.
Kontackt is dope, but the real gold is with 3rd party libraries.
I'm not sure I understand this... "BLAND"?

Absynth was my first software synth. I remember seeing someone using it at a show and I was blown away with what he was doing. When I saw it at a NI booth at Macworld later that year, I picked it up even though I questioned whether my Mac at the time could run it properly. Anyway, Absynth sounded, and still sounds great. There is little in software that does what it does and no hardware that even tries. It's truly an original instrument, and there are not a lot of those these days. I wish NI would focus more on it and other new original instrument ideas. I love Reaktor, but I think it's a mistake for them to focus on new instrument development in Reaktor when it's long overdue for an upgrade itself.

As for their other offerings... FM8, Massive, etc... they all are considered top tier in their categories. Granted, I wouldn't say they're all my personal favorites, but they have a lot going on and are very stable and Komplete is often offered at a very attractive price for what they give you.
Old 30th August 2014
  #281
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As far as I'm concerned the details of the accompanying software will make this or break it.
It better be the best customizable knob mapping system ever done, otherwise I don't see how it would make a place for itself in the market.
Old 31st August 2014
  #282
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Dexterian's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3IJ View Post


anyone speak german?
I'm a native German ... maybe this quick translation (and not even perfect one) may help you:

Innovative USB MIDI keyboard from Native Instruments

• NI has announced the "Komplete Kontrol S" series …three keyboardinstruments to control software, such as the synthesizer, sizers, samplers and effects contained in Komplete
• Each keyboardmodel differs the keybeds primarily by its 25, 49 and 61 keys made by FATAR
• The feeling is luxurious according to the manufacturer.
• On control elements the are eight touch-sensitive endless encoders with small displays for representation of assigned parameters and values, another rotating element and numerous back-lit buttons.
• Two ribbon controllers are on board, which have various physical models in addition to the typical pitch and mod wheel behavior. As examples NI named springs and a bouncing ball.
• Inetegrated arpeggiator of whichin parameters such as*direction,*pace,*rhythm,*patterns*and*variations can be*adjusted.*
• Particularly*innovative*feature*calles light-guide-technology*called,*more or less*a*garland*of*multicolor*LEDs,*placed above the keybed. It's used as indicator for key switches*or*zones. Gives optical*feedback*of*played*notes.*
• An*interesting additional*feature is*the scale mapping capability.*Notes*of the*selected scale*can*be*used*to highlight*color*on*the*light-guide system.*
• Further*assistance*while making music are given via smart-play-options. Thanks to*them chords*are just*with one finger playable. As "ideagiver" NI*has entered*a*slew*of*pre-built*progressions.
• The*selection*of*sounds*is done*via*the*new*Komplete browser.*He*offers*a
tag-based*search system*and*is*comatible with*all*of the*tools*contained*in*the*software suite.*
• Important*parameters*are*already*associated with the*operating elements*of the*Komplete control devices.
• In addition*to*the*release*of*the*keyboard*NI*has*revamped*its*Komplete- and Kompltete-Ultimate*packages,*they*are*now available*in*version*10.*As*the*most important*innovations,*they*have*three*fresh*reactor instruments*and*three ??? (not readable in picture).*
• All new*NI*products*are*available*from*the*01.10.2014.*The*complete*controls*will cost€499,*€599*and*€699.*Prices for Komplete 10*are €499*(normal*version)*or*€ 999*(ultimate)

Last edited by Dexterian; 31st August 2014 at 01:02 AM.. Reason: Strange * in text
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Old 31st August 2014
  #283
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login's Avatar
$500 seems overpriced for 25 keys.
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Old 31st August 2014
  #284
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Yoozer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dexterian View Post
I'm a native German ...
I've made it a bit more readable

Quote:
Native Instruments has announced the Komplete Kontrol S-series: 3 keyboards to control software such as the synths, samplers and FX in the Komplete series. Models distinguish eachother primarily by their number of keys (25, 49 or 61); the keyboard is sourced from Fatar which, according to the manufacturer, can be described as "luxurious".

For controls, there are 8 touch-sensitive endless encoders with small displays to show the assigned values and parameters, another rotary and backlit keys. Furthermore there are two ribbon controllers which - besides acting like pitch and modhweels - can act like physical models, such as a bouncing ball or a spring.

Furthermore, an arpeggiator is integrated, which can be adjusted for direction, tempo, rhythm, pattern and variation. As an innovative feature, the "Light Guide" is touted, which is a chain of multi-colored LEDs which are right on top of the keys. These are meant to show keyswitches and zones, and give feedback of which notes are played. Additionally, it can also serve for scale mapping functions. Notes of the selected scale are lit by the Light Guide.

Another help while playing is the "Smart Play" option. Chords can be played with just a single finger, and whole progressions are already built-in. The selection of sounds is handled by the Komplete browser. It's a tag-based search which is compatible with all the included instruments. Built in, parameters have already been mapped to the controls.

Lastly, Komplete has been upgraded to version 10. New entries are 3 fresh Reaktor instruments and 3 pianos. All new NI products are available from October 1st. The Komplete controls will cost 499, 599 and 699 respectively, Komplete 10 costs (as usual) 499 for the regular version and 999 for the Ultimate version.
I'm really looking forward to this: 699 is steep but perhaps the blow can be softened if an update to K10U is included, and if it's the Fatar keyboard in the Virus this can replace my current controller; I think the last time I used its sounds was 6 years ago or so.
Old 31st August 2014
  #285
Gear maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dexterian View Post
I'm a native German ... maybe this quick translation (and not even perfect one) may help you:

Innovative USB MIDI keyboard from Native Instruments

• NI has announced the "Komplete Kontrol S" series …three keyboardinstruments to control software, such as the synthesizer, sizers, samplers and effects contained in Komplete
• Each keyboardmodel differs the keybeds primarily by its 25, 49 and 61 keys made by FATAR
• The feeling is luxurious according to the manufacturer.
• On control elements the are eight touch-sensitive endless encoders with small displays for representation of assigned parameters and values, another rotating element and numerous back-lit buttons.
• Two ribbon controllers are on board, which have various physical models in addition to the typical pitch and mod wheel behavior. As examples NI named springs and a bouncing ball.
• Inetegrated arpeggiator of whichin parameters such as*direction,*pace,*rhythm,*patterns*and*variations can be*adjusted.*
• Particularly*innovative*feature*calles light-guide-technology*called,*more or less*a*garland*of*multicolor*LEDs,*placed above the keybed. It's used as indicator for key switches*or*zones. Gives optical*feedback*of*played*notes.*
• An*interesting additional*feature is*the scale mapping capability.*Notes*of the*selected scale*can*be*used*to highlight*color*on*the*light-guide system.*
• Further*assistance*while making music are given via smart-play-options. Thanks to*them chords*are just*with one finger playable. As "ideagiver" NI*has entered*a*slew*of*pre-built*progressions.
• The*selection*of*sounds*is done*via*the*new*Komplete browser.*He*offers*a
tag-based*search system*and*is*comatible with*all*of the*tools*contained*in*the*software suite.*
• Important*parameters*are*already*associated with the*operating elements*of the*Komplete control devices.
• In addition*to*the*release*of*the*keyboard*NI*has*revamped*its*Komplete- and Kompltete-Ultimate*packages,*they*are*now available*in*version*10.*As*the*most important*innovations,*they*have*three*fresh*reactor instruments*and*three ??? (not readable in picture).*
• All new*NI*products*are*available*from*the*01.10.2014.*The*complete*controls*will cost€499,*€599*and*€699.*Prices for Komplete 10*are €499*(normal*version)*or*€ 999*(ultimate)
lol i just typed it into a translator ,well that was a waste of time .


Native Instruments KOMPLETE kontrol s series with the three keyboard instruments used to control software synthesizers such as the one in KOMPLETE contained announced the individual modele collectors and effects differ primarily in their comprehensive keyboards 25.49 or 61 keys according to the manufacturer of the feeling is Fater luxurious .of controls are eight touch-sensitive endless encoder with small display to display assigned parameters and values,a further convinces with its classic and numerous backlit button,are also two ribbon controller on board, the next to typical pitch and mod wheel behavior also can work on the model various physical models .as examples ni springs and a jumping ball. The other is an arpeggiator built into the in parameters such as playback direction, tempo rhythm, Pattern and variations can be set, as a particularly innovative feature is called the light guide technology, like a string of lights from multi-colored LEDS, which is located above the keyboard you can read things such as key switches, or zones, zubem notes played are you visual feedback on the light guide system. In addition is also interesting for a further feature the scale mapping functions, notes in the unit of the selected scale sen to highlight color on the light guide. for more hilfest give the smart play options in music, thanks to them impure finger chords are playable, as a creative progessionen nat ni a whole series pre entered, the selection of sounds is done via the complete browser, it offers a day based sixth With all of the software suite and is compatible instruments included from the factory are tigre parameters have already been with the controls of the KOMPLETE kontrol unit connected
in addition to the release of the keyboards, NI KOMPLETE
KOMPLETE ultimate packages sprucing up its you are now available in version 10 most important innovations you have three fresh reactor instrument and not all new NI products are from the first October 2014 records are assigned
with the complete kontrols will be 499 euro 599 and 699 euro to b suggest, KOMPLETE 10 costs 499 euro as normal version or 999 euro ultimate
Old 31st August 2014
  #286
Gear addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
who would give this post a thumbs up? this is like saying "i don't really need the air conditioning in this car, i like to vacuum the back floorboards with a Dirt Devil".
Not at all. I was referring to a keybed that doesn't send velocity or aftertouch. Not one that had it & needed to be taken out. The system1 doesn't generate velocity or aftertouch, I'm just saying it's no deal breaker to me.

Just like it's no deal breaker that a Jupiter 8, Juno 60, Minimoog, or Prophet 5 don't generate velocity or aftertouch.
Old 31st August 2014
  #287
49 key controller is €600 without any komplete software?
Old 31st August 2014
  #288
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Yoozer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderkyss View Post
I'm new to this whole synth thing, but..... I don't really care for either velocity or after touch. I'd much rather use a pedal, or the mod wheel.
There has been a systematic removal of aftertouch on lower-tier keyboards for some obscure reason - obscure, because it used to be included on pretty much every keyboard out there since it was available.

Put it on the keyboard, it's not going to increase the price by that much, and allow - for you - a switch to turn it off. That simple. Good AT replaces modwheels and allows you to play with both hands instead of losing one to the mod wheel, pedals tend to move around unless you have them bolted down.

No velocity? How do you think Kontakt works? So yeah, that's a rompler. But velocity serves many, many purposes and it's just downright baffling to remove it. Again, include it, and allow it to be switched off - but removing it, no. Plus, again pedals and modwheels do not do what velocity does - since it's a polyphonic modulation source.
Old 31st August 2014
  #289
Gear addict
 

how much is the 49 and 61 key in us dollars?
Old 31st August 2014
  #290
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Yoozer's Avatar
USD and EUR prices are (despite exchange rates) pretty similar.
Old 31st August 2014
  #291
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TonyVegas's Avatar
 

I would like to know more about scale mapping. The Fatar keybed is a good sign.

Still though, the 8 knobs tossed on is not a winning strategy. As a Push owner, I can tell you that. Which knob is the HPF? Which bank is that in for this synth? It's just a massive pain that makes it more convenient to not use them at all. If Beringer can put 64 knobs on a $200 mixer board (how many years ago), why can't we get 30 on a midi controller ala the Virus Polar?
Old 31st August 2014
  #292
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyVegas View Post
Which knob is the HPF? Which bank is that in for this synth? It's just a massive pain that makes it more convenient to not use them at all.
There are small screens below each knob that clearly indicate the function.

Have you ever even used Maschine? The 8 knobs are not a "massive pain that makes it more convenient to not use them at all". That's ridiculous. They are extremely useful.
Old 31st August 2014
  #293
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TonyVegas's Avatar
 

Like I said, I have a Push, which is the same. The screens help in theory, but in practice, you don't want to look down and read all 8 screens, then change banks, read all screens again & again, just to find the HPF.

Why not a layout like Monark, with groups of knobs, most of which would have defined applications. There is always a filter cutoff knob. There are always ADSR knobs. No matter which synth you are using, your hand knows where that knob is without looking down, banking, or reading bank screens. That's just what it takes to be serious about making a synth controller. If you want to half-ass it, go ahead. But I already know that isn't good enough.

And that's what I meant when I said 'hands on control for Reaktor'. Imagine if you are a Synth maker. How attractive the Reaktor platform would be when there was a synergized controller with a large installed base (courtesy of NI). Your vst synth has an edge now because there is a hardware controller already available for it by default. Everybody else is trying to get auto-map to work for their synth, but your hardware is purpose built. Reaktor would be to VSTs & synths what Kontakt is to sample libraries if only Reaktor had a serious dedicated controller. This is the opportunity that is lost by NI today.
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Old 31st August 2014
  #294
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login's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyVegas View Post
Like I said, I have a Push, which is the same. The screens help in theory, but in practice, you don't want to look down and read all 8 screens, then change banks, read all screens again & again, just to find the HPF.

Why not a layout like Monark, with groups of knobs, most of which would have defined applications. There is always a filter cutoff knob. There are always ADSR knobs. No matter which synth you are using, your hand knows where that knob is without looking down, banking, or reading bank screens. That's just what it takes to be serious about making a synth controller. If you want to half-ass it, go ahead. But I already know that isn't good enough.

And that's what I meant when I said 'hands on control for Reaktor'. Imagine if you are a Synth maker. How attractive the Reaktor platform would be when there was a synergized controller with a large installed base (courtesy of NI). Your vst synth has an edge now because there is a hardware controller already available for it by default. Everybody else is trying to get auto-map to work for their synth, but your hardware is purpose built. Reaktor would be to VSTs & synths what Kontakt is to sample libraries if only Reaktor had a serious dedicated controller. This is the opportunity that is lost by NI today.

+1 totally agree.

banks of eight is nice for performance and some effects. For programming synths is not enough.
Old 31st August 2014
  #295
Gear Head
 

Thanks to everyone who translated...I'm glad to see these will be included as I was looking for something like this in an update to Maschine:

• the scale mapping capability. notes of the selected scale can be used to highlight color on the light-guide system.
• smart-play-options. chords are playable with just one finger. as ideagiver NI has entered a slew of pre-built progressions.

I see this as useful for both compositional ideas and live performance...Would be even nicer if it included a Scale Mode function but I'm not holding my breath for that...I think they will update some of the synths eventually. Clearly they had a lot on their plate bringing this new system to the market, so it's not going to happen as quickly as we'd like, but I think they know they need to make a move on this...one thing I'm not happy about: having to plug yet another usb device into my Mac.
Old 31st August 2014
  #296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyVegas View Post
There is always a filter cutoff knob. There are always ADSR knobs. No matter which synth you are using, your hand knows where that knob is without looking down, banking, or reading bank screens. That's just what it takes to be serious about making a synth controller.
absolutely not.

see, there's a lot more to it than your short-sightedness. how do NI's Razor or Prism work with a standard synth layout? they don't. that's why 'generic' is a good thing in a lot of cases. a 'Monark' style layout would be almost useless for all but a handful of 'classic' type synths. there does not always need to be a filter cutoff knob, or an ADSR envelope. this is very small thinking.

your petty gripes and the rest of your post shows that you're not really thinking about the bigger picture. the "Reaktor controller" idea is a riot, the creations are so diverse.

unfortunately, the ignorant are always the most vocal detractors.

"+1 totally agree" this.
Old 31st August 2014
  #297
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by login View Post
+1 totally agree.

banks of eight is nice for performance and some effects. For programming synths is not enough.
Jesus, this product isn't designed for deep programming of synths. You and TonyVegas don't seem to understand that. You are comparing this product to a completely different product you were HOPING they would release, so of course it comes up short in your mind.

NI can still choose to release a keyboard for sound design with 1 knob per function and deep integration with some piece of software, BUT THIS ISN'T IT AND IT ISN'T SUPPOSED TO BE.
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Old 31st August 2014
  #298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
absolutely not.

see, there's a lot more to it than your short-sightedness. how do NI's Razor or Prism work with a standard synth layout? they don't. .
But to reject a design because it does not work in 10% of the cases is also not wisdom. I do see a possibility for clusters - but not in the Monark shape. However, a side-effect of what I have in mind would be that there is not enough space on a 25-key controller, and because of even more displays things would get pretty damn expensive.

Make 4 groups of 8 knobs ordered as 2 x 4 and call them Source, Timbre, Loudness and Modulation/FX. That works for an awfully big set without forcing you to think in a subtractive manner. In the case of FM8 you could simply have the first 8 for all the operator pitches (and shapes on page 2), the second 8 for all operator modulation intensities/cutoffs, the third 8 for macro access to the envelopes, etc - and of course you could mix it all up again if you for instance want each group to be per operator. The labels are in that sense just optional and arbitrary but useful for the vast majority of plugins, but then again, so is choosing sets of 8 and determining what goes on which page.

It would still not be sufficient for deep design but you'd have to press that prev page/next page button far fewer times.
Old 31st August 2014
  #299
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MIDI controllers work best for me when the plug has macro controls in banks. I don't mind taking my time doing the sound design [Eurorack owners will surely agree] but for playing a performance, I just need as many useful modifiers as I can to shape the nuances of the sound in realtime. I don't need a filter cutoff knob, or an ADSR for example, if the macro of the plug allows me to do this [or even all of it simultaneously, or so much more].

The Virus always had a good UI for this - two [or three for the TI] rotary modifiers right under the display - the most useful movement of the sound right there in addition to the pitch, mod and aftertouch. Massive and Alchemy have great macro sections, too. I'd love it if Kontakt, Reaktor etc had macro banks which were universally programmed.
Old 31st August 2014
  #300
Gear interested
 

Yeah i agree. Hopefully the accompanying "Kontrol" software will have macro assignment functionality.
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