The Official Roland Jupiter-80 Thread
Old 27th May 2012
  #2191
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EofN's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bloodsample View Post
Sonic state looks at jupiter 50.


I still don't see any use for something like this, but perhaps it works for some people like MDs as the guy states in the vid.
It doesn't seem like they wanted to make a real synth, but aimed at people doing cover songs or working at a theatre or college music dept.

In my opinion, overpriced junk w/ lot's of bells and whistles you'll never need. And those LCD menus... NASTY.
Also, it's pretty stupid to expect people to buy an Ipad just to use an already overpriced synth.

Why can't they make a synth that's proud to be a synth?

The guy was so proud of the sounds "sounds pretty synthy to me" he said. Sounds like cheap, cheesy VA junk, I thought. That new casio sounds more "synthy."
Old 27th May 2012
  #2192
Gear addict
 
scottrod's Avatar
>>EofN:

>>Studio Name:
>>The Casio Cavern.

Nuff said, thanks for the post.
Old 27th May 2012
  #2193
Gear addict
 
EofN's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottrod View Post
>>EofN:

>>Studio Name:
>>The Casio Cavern.
How did you know?

But seriously, this demo is supposed to make it sound it's best, right? What does it sound like to you? I thought the acoustic emulations were decent, and there's people who need that, but what about synthesis?

The synthesized sounds were so incredibly plastic and mediocre, even when smothered with layers of onboard fx. Sorry, but was I wrong when I expected that it might be an actual decent synthesizer, and not just a rompler for making low budget movie scores?

No, I was not wrong. It is being sold as a synth, but it's synth credibility is simply... absent.

Thank you for your post.
Old 27th May 2012
  #2194
Lives for gear
 
GeorgeHayduke's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bloodsample View Post
..people like MDs ..
What's that?
Old 27th May 2012
  #2195
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GeorgeHayduke's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by EofN View Post
..I thought the acoustic emulations were decent, and there's people who need that, but what about synthesis?

The synthesized sounds were so incredibly plastic and mediocre, even when smothered with layers of onboard fx. ..
That was pretty much my impression too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EofN View Post
It doesn't seem like they wanted to make a real synth, but aimed at people doing cover songs or working at a theatre or college music dept...
Yes. Which kinda gives credit to all the critical electronic musicians in this thread, even though that was about the JP-80.
Old 27th May 2012
  #2196
Matrix Modulator
 
asynchro_nous's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeHayduke View Post
What's that?
Musical director, like for a concert tour
Old 27th May 2012
  #2197
Gear nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bloodsample View Post
Sonic state looks at jupiter 50.


I still don't see any use for something like this, but perhaps it works for some people like MDs as the guy states in the vid.
According to the guy from Roland... Moogs sound weaker at the bottom end and better at the top end, while Prophets sound better at the bottom end than the top end.



Wow.
Old 27th May 2012
  #2198
Matrix Modulator
 
asynchro_nous's Avatar
 

I was hoping they would come out with an even less interactive interface than the Jupiter 80.

Yep if I had to choose between designing a "performance" keyboard with a D-beam versus with aftertouch -- oh yeah...
Old 27th May 2012
  #2199
Mr Arkadin
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Man Micron View Post
According to the guy from Roland... Moogs sound weaker at the bottom end and better at the top end, while Prophets sound better at the bottom end than the top end.



Wow.
I assume he was talking about the modelled versions rather than the real deal, otherwise he's a clueless MD... oh hang on...

I like the Sonic State's guy's constant, but diplomatic, criticisms: use of the Jupiter name, you're using lots of effects and arpeggios in that sound, not really in-depth synth features, I've got to give you a hard time: it's got no aftertouch etc.

My heart sank as soon as the demonstrator said, "One of my jobs is as an MD." and "Oh, this a great one, ClubStack." as he punches the cheesiest Trance sound imaginable.
Old 27th May 2012
  #2200
Gear nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Arkadin View Post
I assume he was talking about the modelled versions rather than the real deal, otherwise he's a clueless MD... oh hang on...
If he was referring to the modelled versions only, then should we conclude that Roland think the modelling in the JP is weak?

No wonder Sonic State conclude...

"I'm not totally convinced about the synthesis potential..."
Old 27th May 2012
  #2201
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LiveFromKyoto's Avatar
I like how he was wearing the Access shirt like some kind of magical ward.

That was actually a pretty good video from Sonicstate, it cleared up a lot of misconceptions I had about the thing. I didn't realize its synthesis engine was built more along the lines of something like a D50, rather than proper subtractive. The pitch man probably would have gotten a lot more traction had he called it "a groundbreaking additive synth" or something.
Old 27th May 2012
  #2202
Pip
Gear addict
 

For me I think mr sonic state look totally unimpressed, that said, he'd made his mind up before the vtr was rollin. I'm on it £1699.
Old 27th May 2012
  #2203
Mr Arkadin
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pip View Post
For me I think mr sonic state look totally unimpressed, that said, he'd made his mind up before the vtr was rollin.
Well I think he gave the synth more than a fair chance. Asking why it was called a Jupiter was a valid question, as was (paraphrasing):

Mr Sonic State: "So the synthesis isn't that in-depth then."
Mr Pitch: "Well, no. But you can layer tons of stuff until it seems impressive."

Mr Sonic State: "So there's no aftertouch then."
Mr Pitch: "Well, no."
...

Mr Pitch: "It does half valve trumpets really well though"

Old 28th May 2012
  #2204
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CoolColJ's Avatar
 

As the quote from a viral clip from the new movie Prometheus says "big things have small beginnings"






Get the basics right before you start to layer upon layer of tones -
Old 9th June 2012
  #2205
MusicFan
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Arkadin View Post
Well I think he gave the synth more than a fair chance. Asking why it was called a Jupiter was a valid question, as was (paraphrasing):

Mr Sonic State: "So the synthesis isn't that in-depth then."
Mr Pitch: "Well, no. But you can layer tons of stuff until it seems impressive."

Mr Sonic State: "So there's no aftertouch then."
Mr Pitch: "Well, no."
...

Mr Pitch: "It does half valve trumpets really well though"

Tracically and embarassingly, the Roland guy was as incompetent, as the Sonicstate guy in that video ...
Of course there are in-depth synth editing possibilities in the Jupiter-50, just inform yourself...and watch these clips: Roland Jupiter-50
.
Old 9th June 2012
  #2206
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicFan View Post
Tracically and embarassingly, the Roland guy was as incompetent, as the Sonicstate guy in that video ...
Of course there are in-depth synth editing possibilities in the Jupiter-50, just inform yourself...and watch these clips: Roland Jupiter-50
.
To save myself trawling through an hour of that, looking for the part about the in-depth synth editing. Would you mind telling me which clip to view?


Ps I notice you mention synth editing rather than synthesis. Are you talking about adsr and filter editing?
Old 9th June 2012
  #2207
Mr Arkadin
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicFan View Post
Tracically and embarassingly, the Roland guy was as incompetent, as the Sonicstate guy in that video ...
I don't see how the Sonic State guy is incompetent - he's asking the questions, if the Roland demo guy can't provide better answers that's not really Mr SS's fault now is it? I find the fact that Roland are using an MD and not a synthesist to demo this line very telling.
Old 9th June 2012
  #2208
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LiveFromKyoto's Avatar
I was playing one of these for a while last weekend, and I found the supernatural piano really playable, the sounds really flow well into one another. But the aliasing in the upper register was really, really glaring. I'm guessing the store model didn't have the new firmware, does it fix that?
Old 9th June 2012
  #2209
MusicFan
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by golden beers View Post
To save myself trawling through an hour of that, looking for the part about the in-depth synth editing. Would you mind telling me which clip to view?


Ps I notice you mention synth editing rather than synthesis. Are you talking about adsr and filter editing?
I am talking about in-depth synthesizer engine programming of the VA synthesizer, so no reason here, to get cynical....Of course there is VA engine, that you can edit in-depth, as it's known from every other former Roland Synth.. You just can't edit the SuperNatural-ACOUSTIC-Sounds in-depth, but you can still tweak them quite drastically on the Live-Set level.

Scott Tibbs begins to explain the Jupiter-50's VA-Synth in-depth level VA synth engine programming in video nr.4: Roland Jupiter-50

Old 10th June 2012
  #2210
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicFan View Post
I am talking about in-depth synthesizer engine programming of the VA synthesizer, so no reason here, to get cynical....Of course there is VA engine, that you can edit in-depth, as it's known from every other former Roland Synth.. You just can't edit the SuperNatural-ACOUSTIC-Sounds in-depth, but you can still tweak them quite drastically on the Live-Set level.

Scott Tibbs begins to explain the Jupiter-50's VA-Synth in-depth level VA synth engine programming in video nr.4: Roland Jupiter-50

Well I sat through the 'in depth' synth edit video. And surprise surprise you can change the initial wave, the filter and the adsr. So yes i have reason to get cynical, when yet another shill jumps in a thread to exclaim there is deep synthesis on this board. Is deep synthesis to you stacking a bunch of voices?

I think the jp50 has it's place and I'm sure sounds awesome for acoustic sounds.

However, in terms of what I consider 'deep synthesis', it's nowhere.
Old 10th June 2012
  #2211
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LiveFromKyoto's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by golden beers View Post
To save myself trawling through an hour of that, looking for the part about the in-depth synth editing. Would you mind telling me which clip to view?


Ps I notice you mention synth editing rather than synthesis. Are you talking about adsr and filter editing?
Roland's message hasn't been clearly communicated on this one, nobody should have to ask this question this late in the game. I understand that they want to appeal to players and market the Supernatural stuff first as the technologically forward-thinking aspect of it, but burying everything under their arcane language of registrations and partials hasn't helped.

The synthesis becomes clearer once you look at the (quasi-mandatory) iPad editor:

Quote
1
Old 10th June 2012
  #2212
Matrix Modulator
 
asynchro_nous's Avatar
 

I wonder if you can vary the structures of how the partials interact (like just about everything else Roland digital up to now) or if it's just parallel layering of oscillators with no crossmod possibilities.
Old 10th June 2012
  #2213
MusicFan
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by golden beers View Post
Well I sat through the 'in depth' synth edit video. And surprise surprise you can change the initial wave, the filter and the adsr. So yes i have reason to get cynical, when yet another shill jumps in a thread to exclaim there is deep synthesis on this board. Is deep synthesis to you stacking a bunch of voices?

I think the jp50 has it's place and I'm sure sounds awesome for acoustic sounds.

However, in terms of what I consider 'deep synthesis', it's nowhere.
You are revealing your complete lack of knowledge and your uneducated ignorance! The Jupiter-50 has a fully programmable VA subtractive Synthesizer engine with four Low-Pass Filters and in-depth programming possibilities for every single existing parameter, just like the JP-80.

This forum is a waste of time, due to the low level of knowledge and the complete ignorance and lack of education of most of it's participants. It's just a playground for destructive inferiors, with a depraved consumer mentality. I will ignore this forum in the future. Byby folks and have further fun with your wrong facts....
-
Old 10th June 2012
  #2214
WDM
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WDM's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicFan View Post
You are revealing your complete lack of knowledge and your uneducated ignorance! The Jupiter-50 has a fully programmable VA subtractive Synthesizer engine with four Low-Pass Filters and in-depth programming possibilities for every single existing parameter, just like the JP-80.

This forum is a waste of time, due to the low level of knowledge and the complete ignorance and lack of education of most of it's participants. It's just a playground for destructive inferiors, with a depraved consumer mentality. I will ignore this forum in the future.Byby folks and have further fun with your wrong facts....
-
Yes, please ignore it.

Or... If you have a deep knowledge, please bring it in and post it here. So, the uneducated crowd would have a chance to decide how deep your knowledge is.
Old 10th June 2012
  #2215
MusicFan
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by asynchro_nous View Post
I wonder if you can vary the structures of how the partials interact (like just about everything else Roland digital up to now) or if it's just parallel layering of oscillators with no crossmod possibilities.
@WDM: You are somewhat right. I have to blame myself for ignorance
Considering your signature "You can't build a reputation on what you are going to do.", I will give an answer to the question above:

You can apply Ring Modulation between Partial 1&2, but not with Partial 3.

Old 10th June 2012
  #2216
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crufty's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicFan View Post
You are revealing your complete lack of knowledge and your uneducated ignorance! The Jupiter-50 has a fully programmable VA subtractive Synthesizer engine with four Low-Pass Filters and in-depth programming possibilities for every single existing parameter, just like the JP-80.
nice troll good sir

7/10

we know you read this

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/5263246-post3.html

then posted!
Old 10th June 2012
  #2217
MusicFan
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by crufty View Post
nice troll good sir

7/10

we know you read this

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/5263246-post3.html

then posted!
OK...I should have written my message to user "golden beer" more precisely, like this: "You are revealing your complete lack of knowledge and your uneducated ignorance towards the Jupiter 50!"

Considering his sound sample with the Jupiter 8, he is obviously a skilled adept of the Jupiter 8 and not generally ignorant about synthesizer technology. Therefore i am even more astonished about his ignorance towards the JP-50. There are of course no real time controller knobs, apart from Filter Freq and Res knobs on the JP-50. There are 4 of them on the JP-80 and you can move the virtual slider and knobs on the touch screen and also easily assign them to the 4 controller knobs, with one touch. So it will not be easy to accomplish a similar soundscape, like on "golden beers" JP-8 sound sample, which he produced with all the real time knobs of the Jupiter-8, by just using one partial of the JP-80 and it would be almost impossible with the JP-50.

Peace... and sorry folks for my very harsh and generalizing words towards the members of this forum in my previous post...

Old 11th June 2012
  #2218
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crufty's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicFan View Post
never used the Jupiter 50!"
surely the above is more accurate. also golden beers is very friendly and one of the nicer forum members here! i think anyway, not that my opinion is worth a hill of beans.

here's the thing: i look at the v-synth xt as one of rolands deepest bits of kit (recently). It's what I know.

I don't see the modulation capabilities of the XT in the iPad screenshot. do we know if it is on a different tab?

what does the variation button do for wav type?
Old 11th June 2012
  #2219
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LiveFromKyoto's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by crufty View Post
I don't see the modulation capabilities of the XT in the iPad screenshot. do we know if it is on a different tab?
I think what you see is what you get. Two envelopes and an LFO, with one more LFO mapped to the mod stick. No idea if there's any crossmod.

But there's some depth here from stacking - you could have one fast attack layer with another slower layer beneath it, with an even deeper one behind it for a complex sound. It's sorta like additive synthesis.

Hopefully they keep updating the OS. Another LFO and an assignable envelope would put them into respectable territory.
Old 11th June 2012
  #2220
MusicFan
Guest
You can apply Ring Modulation between Partial 1&2, but not with Partial 3.

@crufty: Yep, I don't own a JP-50, but a JP-80.

Of course it would be nice to have the V-Synth with 256 Voices and ultrafast response. You don't have the accessible VariPhrase technology of the V-Synth on board of the JP-50/80, but Roland might have used it implicitly (combined with other technologies from the V-Synth, like APS) in the so called SuperNatural technology from the new Jupiters...

I am really hoping for a powerful successor of the V-Synth in the coming future!
-
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