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ASR-10 vs e6400
Old 1 week ago
  #1
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ASR-10 vs e6400

If I had both of these machines in front of me I really wouldn't need to make this thread but my main concern is sound plus I wonder if there is anything worth mentioning that I might be missing when comparing these two. Sound of course is subjective, I have found many ASR-10 examples that sounds great to me but not that many great e6400 examples however read many times that they sound great also. So subjectively which one would you choose in terms of sound, objectively how would you compare the sound characteristics between the two? The second thing is, despite e6400's many modulation capabilities the ASR-10 seems to be able to do more sample mangling. Is this true? For example can you change or modulate the sample start end points on the go with the e6400? Thank you.
Old 1 week ago
  #2
Jose Ramón Alvarado Villa
 
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You can modulate sample start point on E6400 but it is not realtime, AFAIK.

On ASR-10 it is full realtime and you can do transwave sweeps as well. Soundwise, you can't beat ASR-10 with anything on the market, be it hardware or software. It's a deadly combination of unique effects and tools. You can't make it sound bad even if you try really hard.
Old 1 week ago
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Solaris View Post
You can modulate sample start point on E6400 but it is not realtime, AFAIK.

On ASR-10 it is full realtime and you can do transwave sweeps as well. Soundwise, you can't beat ASR-10 with anything on the market, be it hardware or software. It's a deadly combination of unique effects and tools. You can't make it sound bad even if you try really hard.
Thank you. Is 590 dollars a good deal for the keyboard ASR-10? How is there not one more Ensoniq gear that shares the same ADCs with the ASR-10? The effects in the DP/4 are the same with the ASR-10 right? But not the overall sound. I wonder if it's only the ADC that makes the ASR-10 sound the way it does. I mean without using any effects and sampling into the ASR-10 with it's analog inputs. What also really bugs me is the overheating issue but seems like there are many long term users that didn't experience any damage. One last thing, if I sequence it externally there is no midi skipping or timing problems right?
Old 1 week ago
  #4
Jose Ramón Alvarado Villa
 
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I never managed to get that ASR-10 long modulated reverb on my DP4 work or sound the same. Also, ASR-10 EFX unit offers extra 44.1k effects which are high fidelity.

Overheating - unfortunately yes. Drill holes at the top, above RAM area. Install a fan in the back to blow hot air out. Problem solved.

BTW go with the rack.
Old 1 week ago
  #5
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good info. ASR-10 is next on my list of 90's samplers to get. hope this don't make the price jump
Old 1 week ago
  #6
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Originally Posted by Don Solaris View Post
BTW go with the rack.
Is there any other reason than space? I need a master keyboard too.
Old 1 week ago
  #7
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Originally Posted by blinky909 View Post
good info. ASR-10 is next on my list of 90's samplers to get. hope this don't make the price jump
Don’t worry it is already famous because kayne uses it.
Old 1 week ago
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Originally Posted by TNC View Post
Don’t worry it is already famous because kayne uses it.


i heard he used *checks studio for crap to unload* a tr-505 and an esi-32
Old 1 week ago
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Solaris View Post
Drill holes at the top, above RAM area. Install a fan in the back to blow hot air out. Problem solved.

BTW go with the rack.
Like this?
Attached Thumbnails
ASR-10 vs e6400-img_4891.jpg  
Old 1 week ago
  #10
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Originally Posted by kslight View Post
Like this?
I do have a cat in the house if it's going to help the overheating problem.
Old 1 week ago
  #11
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Regarding efx in the ensoniqs... Even if they use the same generation chips I do not believe any two models have exactly the same efx algorithms.

Dp4 or plus model are the most flexible, and they all share a family style but there is always something unique about each.

As for asr vs e4 series. I don't think one is better than the other in terms if quality, but they are differently focused samplers.

Asr is sample manipulation, wavetable synthesis, and excellent efx.

E4 is digital subtractive synthesis with many great filters lots of modulation possibilities. Kinda lousy efx I'd you don't have rfx.

A e4 ultra with rfx card is more a peer for the asr 10, and I'd out it a bit ahead of it, however it still won't do the wavetable stuff the ensoniqs can.
Old 1 week ago
  #12
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Originally Posted by bluegreengold View Post
Regarding efx in the ensoniqs... Even if they use the same generation chips I do not believe any two models have exactly the same efx algorithms.

Dp4 or plus model are the most flexible, and they all share a family style but there is always something unique about each.

As for asr vs e4 series. I don't think one is better than the other in terms if quality, but they are differently focused samplers.

Asr is sample manipulation, wavetable synthesis, and excellent efx.

E4 is digital subtractive synthesis with many great filters lots of modulation possibilities. Kinda lousy efx I'd you don't have rfx.

A e4 ultra with rfx card is more a peer for the asr 10, and I'd out it a bit ahead of it, however it still won't do the wavetable stuff the ensoniqs can.
Thank you.What I'm looking for is sample manipulation and sound and since I seem to prefer the ASR-10's sound from the examples I've heard so far rather than the e6400, I think I'll go that way. But I have to find a solution to this heating problem before I buy though. I wish I knew how to install a fan. Going to keep on researching.
Old 1 week ago
  #13
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There are even people that put a bucket full of ice on top of the keyboard lol. The right side of the keyboard with the ASR-10 logo heats right? How about using an external fan directed right at this part of the keyboard? Wouldn't installing a fan inside the keyboard damage it? Is there even space in it to install a fan? I'm confused.
Old 1 week ago
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TNC View Post
Thank you. Is 590 dollars a good deal for the keyboard ASR-10? How is there not one more Ensoniq gear that shares the same ADCs with the ASR-10? The effects in the DP/4 are the same with the ASR-10 right? But not the overall sound. I wonder if it's only the ADC that makes the ASR-10 sound the way it does. I mean without using any effects and sampling into the ASR-10 with it's analog inputs. What also really bugs me is the overheating issue but seems like there are many long term users that didn't experience any damage. One last thing, if I sequence it externally there is no midi skipping or timing problems right?
Doesn't the EPS-16+ use the same ADC / DAC configuration as the ASR-10?

The TS-10 uses the same DAC as the ASR-10 (Philips TDA1541A), which is an awesome-sounding DAC IC.
Old 1 week ago
  #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Solaris View Post
You can modulate sample start point on E6400 but it is not realtime, AFAIK.

On ASR-10 it is full realtime and you can do transwave sweeps as well. Soundwise, you can't beat ASR-10 with anything on the market, be it hardware or software. It's a deadly combination of unique effects and tools. You can't make it sound bad even if you try really hard.
The e6400 sample start time is definitely modulatable in real time. I was the emulator 4 programmer for a sample library company and I used an E6400 at the time and later the E4xt ultra. One thing I used it for is we had some up and then down looped double bowing samples. I used modulating the sample start point to be able to choose starting on up or down strokes with the sustain pedal. Near %100 positive I was still using the e6400 when I did that. I also used velocity to move the sample start time earlier for synth sweep samples to give brighter attacks as you dig in.

The EOS samplers have the best OS of any hardware synth I've ever used. Powerful but very straightforward and the "cord" section pages should be incorporated into any synth with an OS.
Old 1 week ago
  #16
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Originally Posted by StarfishMusic View Post
the "cord" section pages should be incorporated into any synth with an OS.
QFT. seriously powerful.

rumor has it that this album is only E4 series sampler(s) with NO other sounds sources, just sampling the noise from the inputs!

https://www.discogs.com/es/System-Er.../release/88839


yeah, damn.

Old 1 week ago
  #17
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Originally Posted by daviddever View Post
Doesn't the EPS-16+ use the same ADC / DAC configuration as the ASR-10?

The TS-10 uses the same DAC as the ASR-10 (Philips TDA1541A), which is an awesome-sounding DAC IC.
The ADC seems to be Analog Devices AD1879. Which supposedly is also used in JVC DAT recorders and Orban sound processors. Couldn't find any information if other Ensoniq gear uses it.
Old 1 week ago
  #18
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The ADC only comes into play if the raw samples were processed through the sample inputs; likewise, the DAC only matters if you're not using the digital outs.

I've heard EPS samples converted to their EPS16/ASR equivalents (using Translator) and they're super big- and wide-sounding, compared to the EPS (this trick stolen from a former hip-hop client of mine). Same would apply to the TS-10 playing EPS-converted samples....

And there are a lot of hi-fi guys that swear that the TDA1541A is the last word in non-oversampling DACs (even when the measurements say otherwise).
Old 1 week ago
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daviddever View Post
The ADC only comes into play if the raw samples were processed through the sample inputs;
Do you mean if samples were recorded through analog input? Sure, that's what makes most of the sound of ASR-10 I guess.
Old 1 week ago
  #20
Jose Ramón Alvarado Villa
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarfishMusic View Post
The e6400 sample start time is definitely modulatable in real time. I was the emulator 4 programmer for a sample library company and I used an E6400 at the time and later the E4xt ultra.
Kudos for your work. Some great libraries in the E-MU land.

Anyway, i am 99.99% you have to press a key in order to change start position on E-MU series. This makes it a non-realtime modulation type.

On ASR-10 this type of modulation is full realtime. Meaning you can load a speech phrase saying "1 2 3 4", and in real time, while the key is held down, using mod wheel browse thru sections of speech phrase, i.e. " 1 1 2 1", using loop/sample start and loop end point modulation.
Old 1 week ago
  #21
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With 16 mb memory at 44.1 khz how long can you sample with the ASR-10?
Old 1 week ago
  #22
Jose Ramón Alvarado Villa
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TNC View Post
With 16 mb memory at 44.1 khz how long can you sample with the ASR-10?
16.777.216 / 88.200 = 190 seconds
Old 1 week ago
  #23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Solaris View Post
Kudos for your work. Some great libraries in the E-MU land.

Anyway, i am 99.99% you have to press a key in order to change start position on E-MU series. This makes it a non-realtime modulation type.

On ASR-10 this type of modulation is full realtime. Meaning you can load a speech phrase saying "1 2 3 4", and in real time, while the key is held down, using mod wheel browse thru sections of speech phrase, i.e. " 1 1 2 1", using loop/sample start and loop end point modulation.
You are desrcibing modulating loop start times. Not the same as sample start times but sample loop is available as a mod destination too. Of course you have to hit a key to hear the sample start time btw. Um that's when it starts. While it does have loop as a destination I'm not sure that it can scan in real-time like a wavetable synth.
Attached Thumbnails
ASR-10 vs e6400-img_20171010_055554.jpg  
Old 1 week ago
  #24
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I had both samplers in my studio for a looong time.

I prefer the sound of ASR-10 by far! Very special sounding box and for sampling duties, I think it is far better than E6400. Also great as a effect processor.

E6400 has some extra filters, but I hardly remember if I ever used it? They were nothing special as far as I remember. I sold it without regrets.
Old 1 week ago
  #25
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Originally Posted by sound_forward View Post
I had both samplers in my studio for a looong time.

I prefer the sound of ASR-10 by far! Very special sounding box and for sampling duties, I think it is far better than E6400. Also great as a effect processor.

E6400 has some extra filters, but I hardly remember if I ever used it? They were nothing special as far as I remember. I sold it without regrets.
Thanks. Does your ASR-10 go hot? How do you deal with it?
Old 1 week ago
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TNC View Post
Thanks. Does your ASR-10 go hot? How do you deal with it?
Its best if you move north with it.Somewhere the climate is consistent and low humidity.
Old 1 week ago
  #27
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Originally Posted by Goa-Dubs View Post
Its best if you move north with it.Somewhere the climate is consistent and low humidity.
Good idea. I’ll start searching for a rental now.
Old 1 week ago
  #28
Jose Ramón Alvarado Villa
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarfishMusic View Post
You are desrcibing modulating loop start times.
True. This is what i meant with my original comment. I thought OP was interested in looping things. I assumed that, because he was speaking about modulating the sample start end points. Now... modulating sample end point. I think even Sherlock knows that requires just one thing: lift the key. I assumed the OP can't be that silly to ask such question, unless he was thinking about loops and modulating them realtime. But hey, you never know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarfishMusic View Post
While it does have loop as a destination I'm not sure that it can scan in real-time like a wavetable synth.
You can trick it partly by retriggering notes. Many years ago i've built a patch in EOS that will do just that.

It is a patch that randomly scans through a sample and spits out certain portions out. It is fully automated, which means you don't have to do anything and each time it will sound different:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/9506064-post385.html
Old 1 week ago
  #29
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You can map mod wheel to sample start on the e6400

Take a 10 second vocal sample

Play a nice fast pattern of short notes

Quantise

Get jiggy with the mod wheel

Instant funky word salad
Old 1 week ago
  #30
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I thought the sample starts when you lift the key.
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