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Tranparent Reverb and Chorus
Old 1 week ago
  #1
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Tranparent Reverb and Chorus

What is your favorite transparent reverb and chorus? My choice of reverb and chorus has been from Valhalla until now but they are not transparent. Doesn't have to be software. Thank you.
Old 1 week ago
  #2
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Can you please specify what you mean by 'transparent'?
Old 1 week ago
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer View Post
Can you please specify what you mean by 'transparent'?
Doesn't add any color.
Old 1 week ago
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TNC View Post
What is your favorite transparent reverb and chorus? My choice of reverb and chorus has been from Valhalla until now but they are not transparent. Doesn't have to be software. Thank you.
Of the stuff I've used - for reverb -- Quantec QRS followed by Bricasti M7 (use a v1 algorithm for least coloration).

Chorus - all hw I've used imparts some coloration (usually for the better, IMHO)
Old 1 week ago
  #5
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Why would one want a transparent reverb? Surely the colour is the mojo?

Genuinely asking, not trying to be combative.
Old 1 week ago
  #6
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For "transparent" reverb I've been using the Kurzweil Rumour. It's no QRS or M7 (or even TC4000), of course, but it does small and realistic spaces reasonably well, actually.

For subtle (analog) chorus I like the Boss CE-2.

@xanderbeanz: I think you want no color when you really don't want to hear the effect itself, but only the effect of the effect on the sound source (if that makes sense). Like setting a piano solo in a small room, or giving a tiny bit of "air" to drums, that sort of thing...
Old 1 week ago
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xanderbeanz View Post
Why would one want a transparent reverb? Surely the colour is the mojo?

Genuinely asking, not trying to be combative.
Sometimes you just want to put sounds into a three dimensional space without it turning into an episode of the cocteau twins reverb hour.

I'll add the yamaha spx2000 as a very underrated unit for both the reverb and chorus. That said, the color of a reverb is largely how you program it. Almost every general purpose multi efx and reverb unit has the necessary parameters in their algorithms to produce a transparent verb. The exceptions are typically specialized pedals and plugins that are meant to provide one particular sound.

Last edited by bluegreengold; 1 week ago at 07:18 PM..
Old 1 week ago
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xanderbeanz View Post
Why would one want a transparent reverb? Surely the colour is the mojo?

Genuinely asking, not trying to be combative.
I decided I don't like any uncontrollable color to the sound source. I like DMG Audio's EQ and compressor because of that. Also because they are very flexible.

Thanks all!
Old 1 week ago
  #9
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For a transparent reverb, Exponential Audio Nimbus/Phoenix verb comes to mind. It's great for helping things sit in a mix and it not being evident there's any verb being applied.

L
Old 1 week ago
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elgee View Post
For a transparent reverb, Exponential Audio Nimbus/Phoenix verb comes to mind. It's great for helping things sit in a mix and it not being evident there's any verb being applied.
I would second that. Nimbus is my go-to transparent reverb. VSR-S24 from Relab is also worth a look; I think it is considered to be on the transparent side of the spectrum.
Old 1 week ago
  #11
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Originally Posted by comfortablynick View Post
I would second that. Nimbus is my go-to transparent reverb. VSR-S24 from Relab is also worth a look; I think it is considered to be on the transparent side of the spectrum.
Exponential Audio's reverbs look good. Not expensive either.

Does anyone use any Boss reverbs on their synths?
Old 1 week ago
  #12
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I laughed out loud when I saw the name of this thread.

I would have never thought about that but I get it.
Old 1 week ago
  #13
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Maybe I'm old school, but when I want reverb and/or chorus I want that to color the sound or know how it is going to effect the sound so I build the patch with that in mind, the end result is exactly what I wanted

My Midiverb II has a far different sound, than my pedals, which sound different than what's in my Behringer X series mixer, which sound different than pluging in my DAW

Its like adding spice to a dish you are cooking

Gain staging, eq, and compression also add or subtract from the color of a reverb
Old 1 week ago
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grasspike View Post
Maybe I'm old school, but when I want reverb and/or chorus I want that to color the sound or know how it is going to effect the sound so I build the patch with that in mind, the end result is exactly what I wanted

My Midiverb II has a far different sound, than my pedals, which sound different than what's in my Behringer X series mixer, which sound different than pluging in my DAW

Its like adding spice to a dish you are cooking

Gain staging, eq, and compression also add or subtract from the color of a reverb
Yes, the best option would be to have multiple reverbs so that you use each one depending on what sound you are going for.
Old 6 days ago
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegreengold View Post
Almost every general purpose multi efx and reverb unit has the necessary parameters in their algorithms to produce a transparent verb.
Care to share your recipe for transparency?
Old 6 days ago
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TNC View Post
Exponential Audio's reverbs look good. Not expensive either.

Does anyone use any Boss reverbs on their synths?
I use a Boss RV6 on my rhodes, mainly for a big modulated reverb, but I'll check the other modes out and report back when I get the time.
Old 6 days ago
  #17
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For me, a good way to make reverb "transparent" is to make good use of hp/lp filters. too much high end can sound grainy and make the verb sound too fake or separated from the source. maybe sometimes that is what the sound needs, but for transparent, I really like to shave off a lot of high end and use the wet/dry or send with the original to add some clarity.

most reverbs have filters, also a simple eq after the effect can work too.

B2 is an awesome reverb, good filter/ eq options.
Old 6 days ago
  #18
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Bricasti reverb is glorious.... When I think of a 'transparent' reverb like the OP mentioned, I think of less 'dense' reverbs.... they just slip in and around the sound, without sounding like they're 'over' the sound
Old 6 days ago
  #19
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My favorite software "transparent" 'verb is REFLECT. It's never spoken of, but it's a hybrid algorithmic/convolution model. So, you get the convolution in the early reflections, but the tail is all algorithmic, so you get the control you want. It's perminantly parked in one of my sends.

Chorus, I really like using Uhbik F. These days, I've been more into Microshift instead of classic chorus.

In hardware, I was always a big fan of the Lexicon MPX1. Sucks to program, but sounds great for reverb and chorus (and a lot more)
Old 6 days ago
  #20
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(My pal the pro sound man set me straight on this subject).
The best bet to get what you are after would be using EQ or filter on the send or return. It is the broadband response of reverbs that make them feel un-natural i.e. not transparent. Natural reverberation tends to respond in a much narrower frequency band than the source that feeds it. Try this: use a send (not insert) from the channel you want reverberation on, insert a band pass filter on the bus, followed by the reverb you usually like. Set the reverb to all wet / no dry, and and listen to the sound change as you adjust the cutoff frequency of the BPF.
Old 6 days ago
  #21
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Maybe the difference is getting a sound where the reverb 'sticks' to the source sound rather than there be the source sound and then the feeling of it being in a particular space?

I have to go in with headphones with reverb, judging things over loudspeakers and then headphones in some back and forth way until I'm satisfied. For my purposes, I found I was happy with my results with a mid/side eq in the return chain, or sometimes just stereo width control and eq. I don't know if this is the same thing as being discussed but I'm kinda looking for transparency for general purpose stuff but then on other occasions, I like wishy washy 'cheap' reverb or whatever.
Old 6 days ago
  #22
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I always use filters after a reverb. I think what I'm after is either a transparent modern reverb or a reverb that you get to shape the color and not only choose a preset. Thank you everyone for the suggestions so far.
Old 6 days ago
  #23
Gear Guru
I agree with the suggestions for Quantec or Bricasti M7. I got an M7, but I understand the Quantec is a favorite of orchestral mixers who want a real sounding reverb.

On a budget, I also agree with the Kurzweil Rumour ("Roomer") because I have one of those - but it left me wanting more, hence the M7.

My interpretation of a "transparent" reverb is one without excessive modulation, which can sound gimmicky. Lexion is famous for the big lush wobbly reverb if you want that (and it can be nice). Many cheap reverbs depend on modulation to smear over the defects of insufficient delay lines ... the M7 just uses massive CPU power and a ver well tuned algorithm - it's practically impossible to make it sound bad. Whereas the Rumour can be made to sound very wobbly and/or very bad. It's also very bright and thin sounding - whereas the M7 is like velvet. But the Rumour can be tamed and straightened out if necessary. I chose the Rumour over many more expensive units because it could do small rooms (it's well named) which are very important to me. AND - it has excellent mono summing compatibility - I was shocked how many reverbs turn to phasey sh!t when summed to mono. The M7 is awesome in mono too.

I love color reverbs though - very interested in vintage spring sound, just don't like the noise.

On a budget - you can use convolution reverbs. If you want a really transparent reverb - create a wavefile of white noise and shape this into a reverb tail, then use that as an IR file.

I also have some very expensive Numerical Sound impulses. This guy took field recordings of IR's in ancient temples and pyramids and natural spaces - really high end stuff. Then, he crunched the numbers with days of rendering time to re-synthesis these IR's, which created perfect IR's with zero background noise. These are really quite good - and quite flat and sterile. I believe they would match the description of transparent. Not as convenient to use as the M7 - but comparable quality to my ears - convolution really is quite good, but totally dependent on the quality of your IR's. Algorithm reverbs are only as good as the ears/imagination of the designer, and some designers can't even grasp the concept of mono compatibility. Our brains are extremely sensitive to phase and if there is something wrong with an algorithm it won't sit right or be perceived as real or transparent - it might be nice and fake or lush. But there are some recent big name records where things disappear in mono because of lack of knowledge of mono compatibility - it still matters a lot. Especially in dance clubs.
Old 6 days ago
  #24
Oli
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I was also going to recommend good convolution verbs. Sony DRE-S777 always seemed fantastic to me, though Altiverb seems to do a great job too, judging from demos. I ordered a Yamaha SREV1 that was very cheap, though haven't received it yet.

I was going to suggest the Rumour also. I have a KSP8 which seems to share heritage with the Rumour, in early KDFX. KSP8 verbs can retain details of the source. Not too smeary. Not necessarily great sounding though.

You could look at higher end TC verbs also.

Transparent chorus is an interesting question, as I think they are not usually chosen for this consideration. Perhaps a a chorus with a versatile set of parameters would work for you. I think the Roland SDX330 is about as transparent a chorus as I have heard. It can be used for subtle spatial effects. Maybe layering de-tuned multi-tracked recordings could provide a suitable result. It might take a bit of work tweaking your tuning and mix though.
Old 6 days ago
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi View Post
I also have some very expensive Numerical Sound impulses. This guy took field recordings of IR's in ancient temples and pyramids and natural spaces - really high end stuff. Then, he crunched the numbers with days of rendering time to re-synthesis these IR's, which created perfect IR's with zero background noise.
ahh numerical sounds. good call. I speak with Ernest at numerical sounds almost every week. He sends me files to listen to and I send him signals or examples to analyse so I'm pretty familiar with his work. He extols the virtues to me of physical properties of natural sounds and instruments along with a performers groove, while I extol to him the virtues of more outlandish and effective unnatural properties of certain equipment. He also regularly chides me for having a woefully out of date computer.

His recent impulse work using LiquidSonics Reverberate 2.0 as the platform were really good. the naturalness he's got in the early reflections are probably big contributors to a sense of naturalness and lack of coloration. not sure if that is what the OP would have as his take on transparency either, but I'd agree it could be a good potential place to look.

though He doesn't tend to go for synthetic uncoloured reverbs. He tends more towards classical sound stages and architectural spaces. in those domains He's probably one of the best imho. His impulses for Reverberate are exceedingly good. they are all cleverly modulated multiple impulses.
Old 6 days ago
  #26
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Originally Posted by robotunes View Post
Care to share your recipe for transparency?
With reverbs:
Hi pass the source. Use a reasonable pre-delay. 15-30 ms is pretty normal. Don't make your early reflections too dense. Use enough diffusion to soften the reflections. Don't use a lot of modulation. Apply a gate to more precisely control the tail.

Most common mud makers is no eq going in and no pre-delay.

Chorus: be careful with your levels, don't overdrive anything. Turn the feedback and modulation level down.

With a chorus effect, there is so many decisions already made that it can be hard to break the character of that unit or plugin.
One thing you can try is to use a stereo pitch shifter or phaser instead for a similar but less intrusive effect.
Old 6 days ago
  #27
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"Transparent" can mean many things and nothing at the same time.

Some non fine-tuned reverbs (many times convolution too) itb make a washed out same-y tail with every sound which sounds separated from the source, or it depends on algo despite having attention to detail, eg. blue sky which doesnt have loud ER but a late bloom (feedback), otherwise its quite clean and transparent. A not very dynamic response wont sound very transparent also. Then regarding how good a reverb blends with the source and the whole mix the uad 224 will be more transparent (appropriate settings will help too) than something like blue sky.

A "transparent" room/hall reverb has still a certain sound emulating a certain room shape and wall material, tverb doesnt sound like most reverbs and emulates a treated studio big hall/stage with its reflections coming from wood.

Eventide has algos that dont sound like hall reflections giving a dreamy hollow tail , i actually regard that as transparent because it doesnt have that common room or hall type of reverberation.

Now in practice tce from m3000 upwards and eventide will give you fairly clean reverbs without costing as much as a quantec or bricasti, yamaha too, i think their later 24 and 32 bit reverbs are clean sounding but perharps a bit more "stiff" than eventide hw. Most modern reverbs will do for me when not applying any modulation to the tail.

Itb the options are plenty , i use tc fabrik r a lot (algos taken from their high end systems), i often can't tell if the dry signal is muted or not in the "live" algorithm (large hall is more coloured), its that dynamic and reacts very well depending on the source, i ve compared nearly everything itb with this plugin, some come close but ...

Liquidsonics reverberate , relab and acon digital (verberate) are top class.

Also le me tell you a lil secret, modulating the tail a bit will blend better in a mix.


Clean chorus is the haas effect, take the delay u like and set the longest tap (hard panned) at ~33ms , the other roughly in between opposite pan, adjust feedback to taste but you need only a little.

Otherwise tc again has a very clean chorus scf, i had the real pedal too but sold it for that reason, the newer without the purple stripe which is emulated in sw and just gone native. Their chorus-delay is also on the clean side, if it goes native thats a better choice overall imo as its versatile. ChorX can be set to be transparent too or any flanger with stereo/dual mode can do this as well when reducing the feedback to 0. Then there's uhe satin...

For colour check the new tritik echorus.

Last edited by audslu; 6 days ago at 06:37 PM..
Old 6 days ago
  #28
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Great thread. Lots of good suggestions on gear AND technique here. When I first joined GS, this is how most threads were. These days, well, not so much.

Oh well. Carry on.
Old 6 days ago
  #29
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For transparent chorus I go to the UAD/Roland Dimension D. It doesn't move around (modulate), it doesn't sound out of tune. It simply adds a very subtle, very beautiful chorus. Depending on the source I might roll off a little low end. There are several plugin sims out there of this unit. Doesn't have to be UAD.
Old 6 days ago
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rotundness View Post
For transparent chorus I go to the UAD/Roland Dimension D. It doesn't move around (modulate), it doesn't sound out of tune. It simply adds a very subtle, very beautiful chorus. Depending on the source I might roll off a little low end. There are several plugin sims out there of this unit. Doesn't have to be UAD.
Same here for chorus. Put it into four button mode on an aux send.

Staying with UAD for reverb, Ocean Way in reverb mode on an aux.

Not sure I could call either of them "transparent " but, they add the effects you are asking about in an unobtrusive way.

I think the key to transparent reverb and chorus is use sparely, and eq.

Unless you have one of those nice (expensive) bricasti or TC units.
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