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Behringer Mini model D? A good idea?
Old 8th March 2017
  #631
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Mushy Mushy's Avatar
 

Uli, you're one cool MoogerFooger!
Old 8th March 2017
  #632
Matrix Modulator
 
asynchro_nous's Avatar
 

Renderings?

We already know what a Minimoog looks like.

Just kidding -- I'm expecting quite a few added twists and tweaks to make it uniquely Behringer, DM12 style.

UB-303 next, please?
Old 8th March 2017
  #633
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lineofcontrol's Avatar
 

Jupiter 4 and Arp Quadra next please!

With the DM12 treatment of course!
Old 8th March 2017
  #634
Gear Nut
soultrane, no-one cares. Could we just focus on discussing the synth in this thread from now on? I for one can't wait to see the renderings.
Old 8th March 2017
  #635
Quote:
Originally Posted by soultrane View Post
If you sit back and wait for other people to design cool stuff, and then, you wait to see what the demand for that cool stuff is, and then, if it's selling good, you decide to make a knock off in a country where human/worker rights are not comparable to the USA or UK, it's no wonder you can make your products cheaper. No R&D, no risk, and the other company has created all the brand awareness, so advertising is less necessary at all.

It's pretty infuriating to those who risk bringing original ideas and concepts to the marketplace.
Geez, quit beating an old horse, will ya? Behringer's factory is fully automatised - no little chinese children with small hands soldering components in a toxic shop, ok? Come on!

And what original idea and concept have you brought to the marketplace that makes you so infuriated? How come you're the spokesperson for that group?

My god, ppl, these are tools to a means. THT'S ALL.
Old 8th March 2017
  #636
I'm looking forward to seeing the renderings.
Old 8th March 2017
  #637
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SecretSociety View Post
What about ppl using windows?afaik bill took loads of ideas from apple to duplicate it and sell it much cheaper.
Most ppl still using windows but apple is doing fine. ( for whatever reason )
1) Microsoft didn't "steal" anything from Apple any more than Apple stole them from xerox
2) Microsoft invested a good deal of money in Apple at troubling times for them and they've had a pretty friendly relationship.
3) Bill Gates didn't brag that the Apple was too expensive and that he was going to clone it... Microsoft for the most part doesn't make hardware. And Apple doesn't solely make Operating systems.

Poor analogies here.

Anyway, the issue is the framing. When the "it's like a Minimoog!" marketing shifts to how they're actually planning on innovating, we won't be having this discussion, because our main complaint (trashing a competitor) won't be going on anymore.
Old 8th March 2017
  #638
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the_soulcatcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chaosium View Post
1) Microsoft didn't "steal" anything from Apple any more than Apple stole them from xerox
2) Microsoft invested a good deal of money in Apple at troubling times for them and they've had a pretty friendly relationship.
3) Bill Gates didn't brag that the Apple was too expensive and that he was going to clone it... Microsoft for the most part doesn't make hardware. And Apple doesn't solely make Operating systems.

Poor analogies here.

Anyway, the issue is the framing. When the "it's like a Minimoog!" marketing shifts to how they're actually planning on innovating, we won't be having this discussion, because our main complaint (trashing a competitor) won't be going on anymore.
Hahaha- No OS arguing here please
Old 8th March 2017
  #639
Lives for gear
don't care if stolen or not, but the same teasing and triggering with famous synth "XYZ" is boring as hell. And i doubt if this will lead to a good reputation as it rather brings back MACKIE memories.

but i can understand it, BEHRINGER is a business company and they might be aware of the fact that to produce a synth for the mass market and with a classy, big characterful sound is almost impossible.

As good as no company - except MODAL and a few others - put enough love in their synths nowadays NOT to make compromises.
Old 8th March 2017
  #640
Gear Addict
 
Astronaut FX's Avatar
The only part of what Uli is proposing that I take exception with is the part about figuratively dumping a bag a components on the table and stating the value of the end product in terms of only the cumulative value of those components. That is a gross oversimplification, and is irresponsible for a CEO.

As an example, I was working at a mom and pop indie record store at the height of the Napster file sharing ordeal. I remember having discussions with people back then who justified stealing music, because in their minds, CDs were the overpriced. In their minds, a CD was only worth the 50 cents in plastic and paper stock it was made of. They had no concept of the work that went into producing the actual musical content.

So for a CEO to encourage this kind of thinking, I find it a bit irresponsible. I might agree with him, that in this particular example, Moog's mark up for the reissue may be a bit on the high side. But, encouraging consumers to value products solely in terms of the value of the raw materials, hurts all businesses, including Behringer.
Old 8th March 2017
  #641
Here for the gear
 

I'd be interested in this.

Re Uli's comment about 2 kinds of customer - I'm probably both.

For me the EMS VCS3 was one of those holy grails - many bands I liked used it, the sound had been with me for years, it had a tremendous history. So I waited 9 years and bought one. It was ridiculously expensive and I'd have difficulty in defending my decision to get it to any sane person, including wife and accountant.

I don't think I would have bought a clone and really only an EMS would do.

Then there's is then a huge list of synth which have a magic but don't quite make the holy grail category. The Odyssey for example - and so I'm entertaining the possibility of the KARP. It would be the same for quite a long list, including minimoog - I'd like something with the same kind of sound but wouldn't be willing to pay for a genuine Moog.

I look forward to future developments from several companies with interest. After being interested in synths since the late 70s I must say they (mostly) ridiculously cheap compared to then, even the analogue ones.
Old 8th March 2017
  #642
Gear Guru
 
fiddlestickz's Avatar
Tomorrow is going to be fun..
Old 8th March 2017
  #643
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Arglebargle's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astronaut FX View Post
The only part of what Uli is proposing that I take exception with is the part about figuratively dumping a bag a components on the table and stating the value of the end product in terms of only the cumulative value of those components. That is a gross oversimplification, and is irresponsible for a CEO.

As an example, I was working at a mom and pop indie record store at the height of the Napster file sharing ordeal. I remember having discussions with people back then who justified stealing music, because in their minds, CDs were the overpriced. In their minds, a CD was only worth the 50 cents in plastic and paper stock it was made of. They had no concept of the work that went into producing the actual musical content.

So for a CEO to encourage this kind of thinking, I find it a bit irresponsible. I might agree with him, that in this particular example, Moog's mark up for the reissue may be a bit on the high side. But, encouraging consumers to value products solely in terms of the value of the raw materials, hurts all businesses, including Behringer.
Well, there was a long, ongoing price fixing conspiracy to keep CD prices high, so those folks weren't completely clueless. And the corrupt music business industry of the time supported a ton of carpetbaggers, scalawags, and parasites.

Component parts don't tell the story though, so have to agree on that.

Just hope that Behringer has applied as much development muscle to the upcoming monosynth as they did to the DM12. 'Cause Moog's hardware has fallen short for me, in almost every piece. Their iPad apps are of more use.
Old 8th March 2017
  #644
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reditec View Post
Hi, this is my first post in this thread, that's why it will be a little longer.
Welcome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reditec View Post
but it MUST sound equal or very similar to the original one as I want to recreate at least one specific sound (the lead synthesizer starting at 02:26 of Seven Eleven by Carsten Bohn / you can find it on YouTube and Spotify / YouTube: https://youtu.be/pgoKkgXArNE?t=2m26s)
This sounds to me more like some kind of a Hammond organ than a Minimoog, especially when it goes "tutututuuu" on F note.
Old 8th March 2017
  #645
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astronaut FX View Post
The only part of what Uli is proposing that I take exception with is the part about figuratively dumping a bag a components on the table and stating the value of the end product in terms of only the cumulative value of those components. That is a gross oversimplification, and is irresponsible for a CEO.

As an example, I was working at a mom and pop indie record store at the height of the Napster file sharing ordeal. I remember having discussions with people back then who justified stealing music, because in their minds, CDs were the overpriced. In their minds, a CD was only worth the 50 cents in plastic and paper stock it was made of. They had no concept of the work that went into producing the actual musical content.

So for a CEO to encourage this kind of thinking, I find it a bit irresponsible. I might agree with him, that in this particular example, Moog's mark up for the reissue may be a bit on the high side. But, encouraging consumers to value products solely in terms of the value of the raw materials, hurts all businesses, including Behringer.

Time travel (metaphor) to before your own experience: prior to the phonograph, loudspeakers, and vinyl records there was only sheet music. It took a lot of education and required a variety of instruments to listen to a song. The sheets themselves were not expensive and were impossible to regulate when you can copy with a pencil and another piece of paper. The existing means of playing it back was the expensive part. A turntable, speakers, and electricity were eventually less expensive than keeping a whole band in your house. Acquiring or creating a recording costs almost nothing today. Any person working at a record store was in no way, shape, or form involved in any creative process that connected musician and listener. Behringer wants to cut costs for the creative or performing musician. Cut costs for the customer and in turn the customer's customer. Reducing the cost of making actual music, for the musicians, is far more noble than favoring the distributor that cannot compete.
Old 8th March 2017
  #646
My comments on page 14 of this thread have been deleted by @Synth Guru for being "off topic."

The title of this thread is asking if a Behringer Model D is a good idea. I gave my opinion in what I think was a very detailed and honest manner.

<DELETED BY MOD - WE'RE NOT "WHITEWASHING" NEGATIVE OPINIONS. >

Last edited by Reptil; 8th March 2017 at 05:54 PM.. Reason: don't
Old 8th March 2017
  #647
Quote:
Originally Posted by asynchro_nous View Post
UB-303 next, please?
Yes, please! We need more choices for 303 clones!
Old 8th March 2017
  #648
< moderator hat on --> - some more posts deleted, please stick to the topic? thanks! Scott; I'll look into it. **** happens >
Old 8th March 2017
  #649
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wozniak View Post
My comments on page 14 of this thread have been deleted by @Synth Guru for being "off topic."..........snip........
< the only post I found from you on page 14 was a comment about fiddlestickz' DM12. there's also something about dropping out in another post. That's it. If you have a detailed comment about the subject, and it got lost somehow, then I suggest you post it again. >
Old 8th March 2017
  #650
Gear Addict
 
Astronaut FX's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Discopotato View Post
Time travel (metaphor) to before your own experience: prior to the phonograph, loudspeakers, and vinyl records there was only sheet music. It took a lot of education and required a variety of instruments to listen to a song. The sheets themselves were not expensive and were impossible to regulate when you can copy with a pencil and another piece of paper. The existing means of playing it back was the expensive part. A turntable, speakers, and electricity were eventually less expensive than keeping a whole band in your house. Acquiring or creating a recording costs almost nothing today. Any person working at a record store was in no way, shape, or form involved in any creative process that connected musician and listener. Behringer wants to cut costs for the creative or performing musician. Cut costs for the customer and in turn the customer's customer. Reducing the cost of making actual music, for the musicians, is far more noble than favoring the distributor that cannot compete.
You seem to have latched on to an indirect part of my post.

The main point I was trying to make, was that regardless of what type of product is being discussed, asserting that the value of that particular item can be stated solely as the value of the raw materials present in the final product, is a gross misrepresentation of its true value, and I feel it's irresponsible for a CEO to encourage that sort of valuation premise.
Old 8th March 2017
  #651
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Where is Yoozer when we need him to weigh in on important subjects like this...
Old 8th March 2017
  #652
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synth Guru View Post
I'm looking forward to seeing the renderings.
If you are luck he might show you his etching as well.



This thread is really going to heat up tomorrow I think....
Old 8th March 2017
  #653
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It was leaked! And it looks like this!

Old 8th March 2017
  #654
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the_soulcatcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctothej123 View Post
It was leaked! And it looks like this!
I hope it will more look like this (since it'll be probably without keys):

Old 8th March 2017
  #655
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astronaut FX View Post
The only part of what Uli is proposing that I take exception with is the part about figuratively dumping a bag a components on the table and stating the value of the end product in terms of only the cumulative value of those components. That is a gross oversimplification, and is irresponsible for a CEO.

As an example, I was working at a mom and pop indie record store at the height of the Napster file sharing ordeal. I remember having discussions with people back then who justified stealing music, because in their minds, CDs were the overpriced. In their minds, a CD was only worth the 50 cents in plastic and paper stock it was made of. They had no concept of the work that went into producing the actual musical content.

So for a CEO to encourage this kind of thinking, I find it a bit irresponsible. I might agree with him, that in this particular example, Moog's mark up for the reissue may be a bit on the high side. But, encouraging consumers to value products solely in terms of the value of the raw materials, hurts all businesses, including Behringer.
Exactly. It appeals to the lowest common denominator (but obviously works as marketing.)

I'm sure that his process is great and brilliantly optimized but it comes off as insulting to his audience AND his engineers that turn a bucket of assorted parts into a synthesizer.

Really there's much more nuance to that position of distaste than somehow wanting to take minimoogs out of "poor musicians'" hands.
Old 8th March 2017
  #656
Matrix Modulator
 
asynchro_nous's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by keyz2401 View Post
Yes, please! We need more choices for 303 clones!
If you are so concerned with originality, why on earth would you use a facepalm emoji to express yourself?
Old 8th March 2017
  #657
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_soulcatcher View Post
I hope it will more look like this (since it'll be probably without keys):

Hmmm... I don't like the look of that one very much. Hopefully it will be a bit more modern looking.
Old 8th March 2017
  #658
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_soulcatcher View Post
(since it'll be probably without keys):
Why will it be without keys!?
Old 8th March 2017
  #659
Allow me to predict the future:
There will be price snobbery from some, such as,

"Ewwwwwww, you bought the budget Moog"

mark my words.
Old 8th March 2017
  #660
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaphod Betamax View Post
Allow me to predict the future:
There will be price snobbery from some, such as,

"Ewwwwwww, you bought the budget Moog"

mark my words.
And the sound purist snobbery such as:
"ROTFLMAO, you overpaid 3000$ for the old, modulation challenged junk"

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