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Complementary Vintage Polysynth Setup: Chroma vs Voyetra or Jp8.
Old 23rd January 2017
  #1
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Complementary Vintage Polysynth Setup: Chroma vs Voyetra or Jp8.

Let's say there is the following set up:

Ob-x four voice
Prophet 600 Gligli
Oberheim Xpander
MKS-80 rev 4
Korg Trident Mk1

Let's say you had the cash to make one major purchase after this. The goal is a comprehensive polysynth setup. Monosynth duties are fully covered already.

You're not a fan of the Memorymoog sound from demos but haven't played (but demos show it to be bit gritty, harsh, huge, but chorusy). And you already have Midiquest to help with synths with poor interfaces, though nothing beats a good interface, and even with Midiquest you find you don't play rack synths as often as those with knobs. (I must admit I HAVE played the synths above, but not those below).

The style of music: synth based neo-retro space rock. Think Signals era Rush meets Zombi meets John Carpenter.

Here are some possible moves. Choose ONE, and explain your move.

1. Voyetra 8. One of the best sounding polysynths ever, tons of obscure modulation functions, gorgeous SSM filters, worst interface of the bunch bad interface. Has great FM, but lacks multimode filters. From demos seems a little gritty and colder than the older polysynths, a little icy but gorgeous. Seems more spacey than carpenter-ish.

2. Arp Chroma. Great drifty discrete oscillators, but slightly standard CEM filters. Has multimode filters (but fewer options than Xpander), filter FM but not VCO FM (why is that missing arg!). From demos, seems like a really organic sound, but a little more aggressive and less warm and huge than some of the older polysynths. Perhaps could replace the Xpander. Known to be really unreliable, but perhaps with a reconstructed power supply that's less of an issue. Interface not great, but not terrible. Seems more carpenterish than spacey.

3. Jupiter 8. Least flexible of the two, would replace the MKS-80. Organic discrete oscillators into a very cool filter. Amazing interface and performance functions, a little more icy than the older school polysynths, but glassy and gorgeous. Seems to have a very specific sound rather than a sonic chameleon. Maybe a little too pop oriented in terms of sound, though can sound hyperspacey and technological, but never creepy.

Less likely choices:

4. Prophet 5 Rev 2. Between P600 Gligli with Polymod and stuff, and the Trident for SSM filters (diff filters, but seems close), I am guessing they could already do most of what makes this worthwhile. Would replace the P600 but not Trident. Still, this is a classic for a reason. Ultimate creepy sounding synth, but Trident Mk1 may cover that base nearly as well.

5. Yamaha CS-70m. Great multimode filters. Perhaps unnec with Xpander, but unlikely to replace it. Sound seems the most old school and chewy, but perhaps overall least flexible. More creepy than spacey. Seems to have a very specific sound that limits it unless that's your thing.

Last edited by fromthepuggle; 23rd January 2017 at 08:58 PM..
Old 23rd January 2017
  #2
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There's a distinct lack of Roland in your setup.. need to remedy that.

[edit] nevermind - saw the MKS80... carry on, nothing to see here but the stupid gearslut[/edit]
Old 23rd January 2017
  #3
Gear Head
A lot of CEM stuff there. Get an OB-X.
Old 23rd January 2017
  #4
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SidneySheldon's Avatar
 

OMG,another autistic threadWhy do you need another poly analog?
Old 23rd January 2017
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fromthepuggle View Post
Let's say there is the following set up:


5. Yamaha CS-70m. Great multimode filters. Perhaps unnec with Xpander, but unlikely to replace it. Sound seems the most old school and chewy, but perhaps overall least flexible. More creepy than spacey. Seems to have a very specific sound that limits it unless that's your thing.

Now,that's a bullshet
Old 23rd January 2017
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SidneySheldon View Post
OMG,another autistic threadWhy do you need another poly analog?
Cause poly analogs come in diff flavors and abilities. Digital is occasionally useful to me, but usually not as much my thing.

Why do you disagree about CS-70m? Like I said, I haven't played it, only listening to demos.
Old 23rd January 2017
  #7
you got a lot of CEM3340 vco based machines. i would definitely not get another one i.e. voyetra. also its hard to fix, slow to work with. this destroys the very thing that atracts me to analog synths. no knobs/sliders on panel,,, no deal.

Chroma sounds to my taste the biggest, most "discrete" of the lot, followed by the beautiful tone of Jupiter 8. but has the same two problems like voyetra: no knobs/sliders. and even tho there are support groups and many developments for it like new power supply etc, its a very maintenance needy synth. so my choice of the three, would be Jup8. but its crazy expensive nowadays. letting go of mks80 might lessen the damage.


however what id do first is, find another four voicecards for your ObX and pay whatever it costs.


iirc you asked once already about the trident prophet 600 and rev2 dillema? if you can switch from p600 to a rev2 and its a top working specimen, sure absolutely. no trident cannot even begin to cover its territory. no poly mod, no sync no nothing. trident is a beauty in itself a gorgeous warm sounding string machine meets simple polysynth. plus best flanger ever.
Old 24th January 2017
  #8
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I guess Chroma, but I agree it's too much already.
Old 24th January 2017
  #9
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Originally Posted by clusterchord View Post
you got a lot of CEM3340 vco based machines. i would definitely not get another one i.e. voyetra. also its hard to fix, slow to work with. this destroys the very thing that atracts me to analog synths. no knobs/sliders on panel,,, no deal.

Chroma sounds to my taste the biggest, most "discrete" of the lot, followed by the beautiful tone of Jupiter 8. but has the same two problems like voyetra: no knobs/sliders. and even tho there are support groups and many developments for it like new power supply etc, its a very maintenance needy synth. so my choice of the three, would be Jup8. but its crazy expensive nowadays. letting go of mks80 might lessen the damage.


however what id do first is, find another four voicecards for your ObX and pay whatever it costs.


iirc you asked once already about the trident prophet 600 and rev2 dillema? if you can switch from p600 to a rev2 and its a top working specimen, sure absolutely. no trident cannot even begin to cover its territory. no poly mod, no sync no nothing. trident is a beauty in itself a gorgeous warm sounding string machine meets simple polysynth. plus best flanger ever.
Yeah, I'm on the fence.

Jp8 to replace MKS-80?
Rev 2 to replace p600?
Chroma to (maybe) replace Xpander?
Chroma or Voyetra?

Can prob afford one but not all these moves.

I'm leaning towards Chroma. But I hear they are really unrealiable. Do they stabilize if you replace the power supply?

I honestly don't see the extra voices on the OB-x making sense. After all, it's a limited palette, and you can do a lot with 4 voices.

The difference between a p5 rev 3 and a p600 w/gligli seems quite small to me.

I don't have a trident, but am keeping the eyes out for a decently affordable one (occasionally that happens with these), but I am totally in love with layered synths, like my Sk-30.
Old 24th January 2017
  #10
one synth..

chroma has another advantage if you are playing proficient , it has beautiful hammer keybed and synth engine is responsive to it. it was pure joy to play one. this aspect means a world of difference to me in expression and composition (velocity poys i have are andro and xpander)

for sound only, id switch xpander for chroma no questions asked. immediately. its no comparison.

prophet rev2 instead p600 - non brainer
jup 8 instead of mks80 - another non brainer

but, i think you have more than enough to make a neo retro space rock carpenter something album right now. you could do it with just p600 and obx, for example. rest is good effects and well.. dependant how good your stuff is after all. another polysynth won't really make much difference.


i will add that out of all analog synths i have, prophet rev2 has the most ability and depth to pull off an entire space retro soundtrack record on its own. naturally some rhodes piano, space echo, and dash of stringer silk here and there would make it even better.

cheers
Old 24th January 2017
  #11
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Rufuss Sewell's Avatar
JP8 is the best synth ever made.

And it can absolutely get creepy.
Old 24th January 2017
  #12
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Where do you live? Shipping a Chroma any great distance scares me and would likely result in it needing service, possibly a lot of service. Also beware if it's been sitting a long time since the batteries behind the front panel can leak and destroy boards and the tines at the end of the keys that trigger notes.

FWIW, are you going to mostly play preset sounds or do a lot of programming yourself? Nothing wrong with either, but the JP-8 lends itself to creating a lot from scratch and doing lots of dynamic mods to sounds. The other two, not so much. I'd also pull down the Voyetra 8 manual and give it a good read - there's only 4 modulation slots and the source/destination list isn't very comprehensive or unusual.

All 3 sound great. If you're looking for a machine with low end and beef, the V-8 is the closest. All other aspects (nice strings, solid leads, weird fx) they all do to a fair degree.

The Chroma is the only one with flexible architecture for oscillators and filter. there's a number of structures you can pick to arrange them in different orders and that gives a ton of variety to the sound.

In my experience (again IME) - even with the MIDI CC+ CPU board *and* a 2 line LCD display, it still wasn't a joy to program.

I've owned them all (including everything else on your list except the Trident) and the JP-8 is the only one still here.
Old 24th January 2017
  #13
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I'd opt for the or the if in amazing condition and fully restored. All the others are painful to service (definitely Voyetra, Chroma and possibly the CS-70m since it's rare and complex), and service with any of these aging units is guaranteed.

Sound-wise depends on one's talent, not an expensive and/or rare instrument.

edit: reading this thread again, there is a lot of naivete regarding the amount of service effort these instruments need from the OP.
Old 24th January 2017
  #14
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by clusterchord View Post
chroma has another advantage if you are playing proficient , it has beautiful hammer keybed and synth engine is responsive to it. it was pure joy to play one. this aspect means a world of difference to me in expression and composition (velocity poys i have are andro and xpander)

for sound only, id switch xpander for chroma no questions asked. immediately. its no comparison.

prophet rev2 instead p600 - non brainer
jup 8 instead of mks80 - another non brainer

but, i think you have more than enough to make a neo retro space rock carpenter something album right now. you could do it with just p600 and obx, for example. rest is good effects and well.. dependant how good your stuff is after all. another polysynth won't really make much difference.


i will add that out of all analog synths i have, prophet rev2 has the most ability and depth to pull off an entire space retro soundtrack record on its own. naturally some rhodes piano, space echo, and dash of stringer silk here and there would make it even better.

cheers
Yes, no question I DO have enough for the space rock record, which I'm hard at work on recording (though the damn day job gets in the way, doh).

And yeah, in an ideal world, replacing P600 with rev2, mks-80 with jp8 are no brainer, and maybe xpander with chroma (xpander is pretty cool, I've heard some say each covers diff ground).

But if you could only do ONE of those, which one?
Old 24th January 2017
  #15
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by jabar View Post
I'd opt for the or the if in amazing condition and fully restored. All the others are painful to service (definitely Voyetra, Chroma and possibly the CS-70m since it's rare and complex), and service with any of these aging units is guaranteed.

Sound-wise depends on one's talent, not an expensive and/or rare instrument.

edit: reading this thread again, there is a lot of naivete regarding the amount of service effort these instruments need from the OP.
unclear which the and the you mean.

As for maintenance costs, it is possible I am being naïve, but please do tell. In my experience, I've had to invest money in synths when I first get them, but once major upfront issues or lingering issues are taken care of, if they aren't moved much, they tend to stabilize. This is for studio work, not touring, they won't be moving. Perhaps the Chroma and Voyetra are extremely unreliable beyond the synths I've experienced. But the Xpander, P600, Chroma Polaris (once you replace the membrane), and a slew of mono synths and striners seem pretty chill so long as you don't drop them. What am I missing?
Old 24th January 2017
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgearguy View Post
Where do you live? Shipping a Chroma any great distance scares me and would likely result in it needing service, possibly a lot of service. Also beware if it's been sitting a long time since the batteries behind the front panel can leak and destroy boards and the tines at the end of the keys that trigger notes.

FWIW, are you going to mostly play preset sounds or do a lot of programming yourself? Nothing wrong with either, but the JP-8 lends itself to creating a lot from scratch and doing lots of dynamic mods to sounds. The other two, not so much. I'd also pull down the Voyetra 8 manual and give it a good read - there's only 4 modulation slots and the source/destination list isn't very comprehensive or unusual.

All 3 sound great. If you're looking for a machine with low end and beef, the V-8 is the closest. All other aspects (nice strings, solid leads, weird fx) they all do to a fair degree.

The Chroma is the only one with flexible architecture for oscillators and filter. there's a number of structures you can pick to arrange them in different orders and that gives a ton of variety to the sound.

In my experience (again IME) - even with the MIDI CC+ CPU board *and* a 2 line LCD display, it still wasn't a joy to program.

I've owned them all (including everything else on your list except the Trident) and the JP-8 is the only one still here.
I'm in nyc, so good techs are nearby, though expensive. I think the Ob-x covers low end, and so do monosynths.

Usually when I first get a new complex synth, I spend a full day just filling it up with sounds that explore different parts of its architecture, so I have a few of each major type it makes. When recording, I'll start with one of these, then tweak as the track needs. Repeat the process when I'm bored with my stock sounds.

Obviously JP8 looks the most immediate fun, Voyetra the deepest architecture but rereading the user manual, it's control interface is maddening.

The Chroma interface doesn't look all THAT bad, so long as you're ok with using a single slider to fly through different filter modes quickly and 'see what happens.' More systematic tweaking of envelopes where the relation between multiple parameters matters seems a task for Midiquest (found that out the hard way with Moog Source).
Old 24th January 2017
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rufuss Sewell View Post
JP8 is the best synth ever made.

And it can absolutely get creepy.
Now if I know this place at all, those are fighting words. Well, the first statement, at least. I was under the impression that at least in terms of sound, when it comes to the 'big' polysynths (Jp8, Chroma, Voyetra, Memorymoog, P5r2, Synthex, Ob-x, M12/Xpander, CS-80), there is no better, just different.
Old 24th January 2017
  #18
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Thread Starter
To get a sense of my sound, here's a clip from a recent track in progress. Main synth is Pro One, backed up by Prophet VS, Elka 610, and bass guitar. Track is unmastered.
Attached Files

anders - 1_9_17, 2.58 AM.m4a (3.42 MB, 722 views)

Old 24th January 2017
  #19
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I have a couple of my usual answers. JD-XA, and for something from left field, Arturia Origin.

JD-XA can sound like all kinds of synths, and has a nice analog filter that layers almost seamlessly with the SN synth. It's a space rock album all its own. Lots of patches to get you started on Roland's Axial site.

Origin is completely modular, and uses synth OSCs and filters from ARP, Moog, Oberheim - SEM no less, Roland and Yamaha. They sound really good too. So you can make a Moog Modular with it. And a Roland Jupiter-8 or System 700. An ARP Odyssey, 2600 or dare I say it, Chroma. And then a CS-80, all at the push of a patch button. There are a bunch of patches for it on the Arturia site.

Oh and thanks for the example. That's some wicked heady stuff there!
Old 24th January 2017
  #20
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Thread Starter
here is another real short one. This is Roland SH-2, backed up by Korg Poly Six and bass guitar. still gotta tighten a few things to the beat on all these, and master, but you get the idea. I like polyrhythms!
Attached Files

123.2 - 12_12_16, 8.38 AM.m4a (8.20 MB, 693 views)

Old 24th January 2017
  #21
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Rufuss Sewell's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by fromthepuggle View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rufuss Sewell View Post
JP8 is the best synth ever made.

And it can absolutely get creepy.
Now if I know this place at all, those are fighting words. Well, the first statement, at least. I was under the impression that at least in terms of sound, when it comes to the 'big' polysynths (Jp8, Chroma, Voyetra, Memorymoog, P5r2, Synthex, Ob-x, M12/Xpander, CS-80), there is no better, just different.
Disclaimer: I love them all.

Chroma, Voyetra: No knobs/sliders (eliminated)

Memorymoog, M12/Xpander: CEM so samey/not unique. (eliminated)

Synthex: DCO (eliminated)

P5r2: 5 notes. (eliminated)

Ob-x: Highly unreliable, lacks features, goes out of tune. (eliminated)

CS-80: 200lbs, unreliable, weird patch memory, No sync?!? (eliminated)

JP8: 8 voice, knob per function, beautiful unique discrete VCOs, light, reliable, stays in tune, easy to add MIDI, sync, 2 lfos, cross mod, arp, dual layers!!! (winner)

Reminder: I love them all.
Old 24th January 2017
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rufuss Sewell View Post
Disclaimer: I love them all.

Chroma, Voyetra: No knobs/sliders (eliminated)

Memorymoog, M12/Xpander: CEM so samey/not unique. (eliminated)

Synthex: DCO (eliminated)

P5r2: 5 notes. (eliminated)

Ob-x: Highly unreliable, lacks features, goes out of tune. (eliminated)

CS-80: 200lbs, unreliable, weird patch memory, No sync?!? (eliminated)

JP8: 8 voice, knob per function, beautiful unique discrete VCOs, light, reliable, stays in tune, easy to add MIDI, sync, 2 lfos, cross mod, arp, dual layers!!! (winner)

Reminder: I love them all.
Mildly hilarious. But clear!

I must say, my favorite thing about the MKS-80 is that really unique Roland filter, the sing-song resonance band the after haze you get through it on sounds with long release that I don't seem to find on other synths. Sometimes a little too sweet for some sounds, but what it can do it does real well.
Old 24th January 2017
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fromthepuggle View Post
unclear which the and the you mean.

As for maintenance costs, it is possible I am being naïve, but please do tell. In my experience, I've had to invest money in synths when I first get them, but once major upfront issues or lingering issues are taken care of, if they aren't moved much, they tend to stabilize. This is for studio work, not touring, they won't be moving. Perhaps the Chroma and Voyetra are extremely unreliable beyond the synths I've experienced. But the Xpander, P600, Chroma Polaris (once you replace the membrane), and a slew of mono synths and striners seem pretty chill so long as you don't drop them. What am I missing?
Jupiter 8 and Prophet 5 Rev 2. I think when I did a quick edit the auto links removed the words I wrote.

Having gone through repair work on my Prophet 10, which is actually well built and not as unstable, excluding the sequencer/mini-cassette recorder, it's not something I would wish on anyone. I have an Xpander too, which did get bumped in shipment and needed immediate repair. My nice condition Jupiter 6 with the misfortune of living in the humid southern USA needing all the sliders replaced. Another aspect is just the mentality of needing this vintage equipment to the exclusion of more modern and supportable options.
Old 24th January 2017
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fromthepuggle View Post
2. Arp Chroma. Great drifty discrete oscillators, but slightly standard CEM filters. Has multimode filters (but fewer options than Xpander), filter FM but not VCO FM (why is that missing arg!). From demos, seems like a really organic sound, but a little more aggressive and less warm and huge than some of the older polysynths. Perhaps could replace the Xpander. Known to be really unreliable, but perhaps with a reconstructed power supply that's less of an issue. Interface not great, but not terrible. Seems more carpenterish than spacey.
I would absolutely not replace an Xpander with the Chroma. No way, no how. While sorting out the power supply does eliminate a lot of issues it's like an expensive game of Whack-a-mole when it comes to the voice boards all behaving. While visiting my tech last Saturday he had 3 Chromas in the queue -- and he estimated that each one was probably 2-3 months of work, so expect to wait in line with a tech experienced with the Chroma. As of this writing I'm unsure if the CC+ and polyphonic aftertouch sensor strips are still being made/sold. It's really a performance synth, so if you don't plan on taking advantage of the velocity and optional aftertouch then it's a bit of a waste (both money and space).

To be honest, get yourself a Jupiter 8 and pair it with the Xpander and you will be able to make 95% of the sounds you'd ever need.

That last 5% is just chasing pookahs.
Old 24th January 2017
  #25
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Thread Starter
2-3 Chromas in a line?! Holy crap, I've never even seen one in the flesh. Honestly, I was thinking the Chroma Expander, which is cheaper, and with midi the aftertouch can be controlled from a midi keyboard. I'm one of those in the minority who don't like weighted keys, I learned on synths and only moved to piano later.

Interesting what you say about Xpander and Jupiter 8 being able to do most of what Chroma can, without the headaches. Jp8 is notoriously stable and reliable. Why do you say the Xpander and Jp8 get 95%? Xpander has incredible versatility, but is the Jp8 as organic as the Chroma? From demos the Chroma seems a bit like it's living and breathing.
Old 24th January 2017
  #26
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My advice (if you really need advice with your obvious musical expertise) would be to get the synth that will give you the most of programming and playing fun, and that means that you have to play and fiddle a few of the candidates for quite a time. I think the inspiration you will get from having a playable instrument under your fingers will give more impact to your music than a certain sound that might be missing from your setup.
When I compared the two examples you gave us, I noticed that the main melodies were played by completely different-sounding synths (SH-2 and Pro-One), yet they sound nearly identically (at least to my worn-out ears through crAppy speakers) - and that's not a bad thing! It just shows that this seems to be your favourite sound and you should cultivate it, but you don't have to try and replicate it on every other synthesizer (unless that's part of the fun for you).
If layering is what you're after, use the MIDI on three of your synths to build walls of sound, and you will never stop grinning!
Oh, and I personally wouldn't get a Chroma for the maintenance reasons stated before. I have a Polaris (with new panels and internal cabling), and I have never had any problems with it so far (a few years now). And it has a very special sound VERY different from other polysynths - and yes, it CAN do pads!

Cheers,
Bert
Old 24th January 2017
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feinstrom View Post
My advice (if you really need advice with your obvious musical expertise) would be to get the synth that will give you the most of programming and playing fun, and that means that you have to play and fiddle a few of the candidates for quite a time. I think the inspiration you will get from having a playable instrument under your fingers will give more impact to your music than a certain sound that might be missing from your setup.
When I compared the two examples you gave us, I noticed that the main melodies were played by completely different-sounding synths (SH-2 and Pro-One), yet they sound nearly identically (at least to my worn-out ears through crAppy speakers) - and that's not a bad thing! It just shows that this seems to be your favourite sound and you should cultivate it, but you don't have to try and replicate it on every other synthesizer (unless that's part of the fun for you).
If layering is what you're after, use the MIDI on three of your synths to build walls of sound, and you will never stop grinning!
Oh, and I personally wouldn't get a Chroma for the maintenance reasons stated before. I have a Polaris (with new panels and internal cabling), and I have never had any problems with it so far (a few years now). And it has a very special sound VERY different from other polysynths - and yes, it CAN do pads!

Cheers,
Bert
You are totally right, I managed to make two very diff synths sound the same! Doh. I didn't even think about that, it just happened, but we all have our ruts (mine is often being less than thrilled with square waves, and loving resonance way too much). Other than turning down the resonance, any other constructive input or feedback?

Btw, you sold me an Elkorus a while back, and while I eventually sold it, I remember your input on many issues quite illuminating, and your tunes with your band are really great!
Old 24th January 2017
  #28
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But yeah, if anyone has any constructive comments on the tracks I posted, that's also real helpful. I'm planning on fixing these and related tracks up in the near future to send to some small record labels, in particular, the guys at Zombi (in the hopes they take it to their label), but there's a ton of other small labels that put out stuff like this, other related acts like Umberto, Majeure, Maserati, etc. It's a niche sound I know, and I'd like to get slightly more of an EDM feel, but not too much, though everytime I try the rock influences tend to take over.

Granted, discussions of gear being primary here.
Old 24th January 2017
  #29
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ok, now it won't let me post audio. tried a few times and it didn't work (sorry to clog the thread). maybe I hit a limit or something.

Last edited by fromthepuggle; 24th January 2017 at 09:59 AM..
Old 24th January 2017
  #30
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ok, not letting me delete either. doh.
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