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Behringer Analog Drum Machine
Old 15th October 2016
  #1
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Uli Behringer's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Behringer Analog Drum Machine

With the tremendous success of the DeepMind12, we are now repeatedly getting asked to design and produce an analog drum machine.

We would love to hear your opinion and invite you to share your ideas and dream features with us.

Many thanks!

Uli
Old 15th October 2016
  #2
Lives for gear
 

please:

a simple copy of a 909 with individual outputs

a simple copy of an 808 with individual outputs

no extra bells or whistles, just make sure they THUMP like the originals

oh yes please ensure they respond to midi clock absolutely perfectly - maybe get david lackey from innerclock systems to advise on this aspect

they need to respond to song position pointer too
Old 15th October 2016
  #3
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by tamprecision View Post
please:

a simple copy of a 909 with individual outputs

a simple copy of an 808 with individual outputs

no extra bells or whistles, just make sure they THUMP like the originals
THIS!
Old 15th October 2016
  #4
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shabbyroad's Avatar
Uli, is this 'announcement' in response to the Arturia product launch? Can you define "successful" when you refer to the Deepmind?

The former appears odd timing and the latter is for a product I'm not yet able to buy.

Disruption is not vapourware. It's creating a new market.
Old 15th October 2016
  #5
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Sebastian N's Avatar
 

don't make a roland copy. make a basic sample playback machine with general but useful editing features and add some analog components to the signal path like distortion, eq, filter. think volca sample with better quality conversion, expandable storage, multiple outs and analog signal path after the digital file is triggered. of course, a nice sequencer.
Old 15th October 2016
  #6
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goony's Avatar
Sounds like great idea, but please no more Roland 808/909 stuff, enough already. More Analog is good, I would love to hear Simmons style drum machine.
Old 15th October 2016
  #7
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glasspipe's Avatar
 

Hello Uli,

Something with deep drum synthesis capabilities, individual outs. Please, no more 808 and 909. We need something malleable with it's own voice and personality..
Old 15th October 2016
  #8
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TornadoTed's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebastian N View Post
don't make a roland copy. make a basic sample playback machine with general but useful editing features and add some analog components to the signal path like distortion, eq, filter. think volca sample with better quality conversion, expandable storage, multiple outs and analog signal path after the digital file is triggered. of course, a nice sequencer.
Agreed, there are a stack of analogue drum machines around, MFB, Arturia, Elektron, Vermona as well as things like the Yocto and Nava etc. I too would prefer a sampler, maybe MPC style with loads of analogue processing and hands on control.
Old 15th October 2016
  #9
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shabbyroad's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TornadoTed View Post
Agreed, there are a stack of analogue drum machines around, MFB, Arturia, Elektron, Vermona as well as things like the Yocto and Nava etc. I too would prefer a sampler, maybe MPC style with loads of analogue processing and hands on control.
Exactly. Do something truly disruptive and not just a "me too" product.
Old 15th October 2016
  #10
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Mushy Mushy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by shabbyroad View Post
Uli, is this 'announcement' in response to the Arturia product launch? Can you define "successful" when you refer to the Deepmind?

The former appears odd timing and the latter is for a product I'm not yet able to buy.

Disruption is not vapourware. It's creating a new market.
You don't think the DM is successful? You are aware Behringer will have taken customer orders already right? Retailers don't want into the distributor with a lorry each week to buy product.

Behringer had sales targets and they've clearly met (or likely exceeded) these. Therefore successful.
Old 15th October 2016
  #11
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shabbyroad's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mushy Mushy View Post
You don't think the DM is successful? You are aware Behringer will have taken customer orders already right? Retailers don't want into the distributor with a lorry each week to buy product.

Behringer had sales targets and they've clearly met (or likely exceeded) these. Therefore successful.
I'm not suggesting that based on pre orders for a product many of us haven't played it should not be viewed as successful. I'm asking Uli what he means by successful.

Last edited by shabbyroad; 15th October 2016 at 12:05 PM.. Reason: Huge stupid typos
Old 15th October 2016
  #12
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Mushy Mushy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by shabbyroad View Post
I'm not suggesting that based on pre orders for a product many of us haven't played it could be viewed as successful. I'm asking Uli what he means by successful.
Ok understood, but with all due respect I think that's pretty obvious.

a) met sales targets;
b) favourable reviews;
c) put Behringer on the map as a real synth contender;
d) satisfied his boyhood dream of building a synth (or more accurately reminiscing over his first synth that was lost).
Old 15th October 2016
  #13
Gear Addict
A analog rytm/machinedrum without the irritating menu diving would be great.
Old 15th October 2016
  #14
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shabbyroad's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mushy Mushy View Post
Ok understood, but with all due respect I think that's pretty obvious.

a) met sales targets;
b) favourable reviews;
c) put Behringer on the map as a real synth contender;
d) satisfied his boyhood dream of building a synth (or more accurately reminiscing over his first synth that was lost).
It could be all of the above or something else. That's why I asked.

I'm hopeful that Behringer becomes truly disruptive. The polysynth is a great start but as Uli is "Chief Disrupter" I'm interested in his definition of success in that context. From there it will give us insight into what Behringer might do with new products.

What I want to know is how Behringer will go from being a "me too" and follower of their competitors to being an innovative leader. Look at what Buchla were doing: wouldn't it be great to see similar innovation? But if they're only going to compete 1:1 on synths and drum machines that will be a little disappointing.
Old 15th October 2016
  #15
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by shabbyroad View Post
Uli, is this 'announcement' in response to the Arturia product launch? Can you define "successful" when you refer to the Deepmind?

The former appears odd timing and the latter is for a product I'm not yet able to buy.

Disruption is not vapourware. It's creating a new market.
12 voice analog poly that appears to sound quite lovely for approx 1k? There is no way this is not going to be a success, potential to be one of the biggest sellers of all time!
Old 15th October 2016
  #16
Gear Guru
 
Yoozer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebastian N View Post
don't make a roland copy. make a basic sample playback machine with general but useful editing features and add some analog components to the signal path like distortion, eq, filter. think volca sample with better quality conversion, expandable storage, multiple outs and analog signal path after the digital file is triggered. of course, a nice sequencer.
Analog kick and snare in 808 and 909 variations, samples or modeling for the rest.

Use the Toraiz as a template, make it the MPC Akai won't make.
Old 15th October 2016
  #17
Quote:
Originally Posted by TornadoTed View Post
Agreed, there are a stack of analogue drum machines around, MFB, Arturia, Elektron, Vermona as well as things like the Yocto and Nava etc. I too would prefer a sampler, maybe MPC style with loads of analogue processing and hands on control.
There are certainly NOT a stack of well featured analog drum machines around that cost $499 or less. Only one, obviously the drum brute. While the drum brute seems great, there's room for more than one, especially ones that have some nice 6 and 12 bit PCM as well. Behringer can.
Old 15th October 2016
  #18
Lives for gear
 

Good indication what not to create is the Tempest. Too expensive and not so user friendly.
Best drum computers are the ones that have easy access, allow for fast workflows and make live playing fun.
Old 15th October 2016
  #19
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manalishi's Avatar
Blimey - a bit "me, too" immediately after Arturia's announcement!

My suggestions:

1) make it programmable with patch memories
2) CC for each parameter
3) stereo outputs, with (say) two assignable individual outs


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mushy Mushy View Post
Ok understood, but with all due respect I think that's pretty obvious.

a) met sales targets;
b) favourable reviews;
c) put Behringer on the map as a real synth contender;
d) satisfied his boyhood dream of building a synth (or more accurately reminiscing over his first synth that was lost).
On the other thread, I'm frequently accused of being a DM12 fanboi, but IMHO the DM12 cannot possibly be considered a success yet, because:

a) not a single one has been sold
b) there isn't even a review of a final production version yet
c) plenty of people are excited but want to hear it in person first
d) the reliability question still has to be addressed by how well Behringer's first synth fares once it's in real-world use
Old 15th October 2016
  #20
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by manalishi View Post
Blimey - a bit "me, too" immediately after Arturia's announcement!

My suggestions:

1) make it programmable with patch memories
2) CC for each parameter
3) stereo outputs, with (say) two assignable individual outs




On the other thread, I'm frequently accused of being a DM12 fanboi, but IMHO the DM12 cannot possibly be considered a success yet, because:

a) not a single one has been sold
b) there isn't even a review of a final production version yet
c) plenty of people are excited but want to hear it in person first
d) the reliability question still has to be addressed by how well Behringer's first synth fares once it's in real-world use
Indeed reliability has to be proven given behringers somewhat turbulent past
Old 15th October 2016
  #21
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Mushy Mushy's Avatar
 

Please call it the MindDrum
Old 15th October 2016
  #22
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Eigenwert's Avatar
Sampling drum machine with analogue vca and envelope per voice
Old 15th October 2016
  #23
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James Lehmann's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli Behringer View Post
With the tremendous success of the DeepMind12...
With all due respect, by what measure is the Deepmind12 a "tremendous success" when at the time of writing no-one other than a few industry insiders have even seen one?
Old 15th October 2016
  #24
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lineofcontrol's Avatar
 

I also believe a standalone drum machine isn't enough. We have a lot of competition in that arena already and the new Drumbrute has really got so many bases covered.

What is missing is a hardware sampler and sample player type of machine.

With dedicated performance controls such as sample start and end points which work in real time. Freeze and granularity too.

Look to the modular world for innovation. The qubit Nebulae sample player has everything I am taking about. Combine that with the Make noise Phonogene and put that into a knobby box and you have a winner.

Please Uli watch this Nebulae basics demo:


Please watch more of them if you have the time...

And thank you so very much for listening to your customers.

P. S. Did you receive my request for a demo Deep Mind 12 for the Toronto Sound modular and hardware synth festival?
Old 15th October 2016
  #25
Lives for gear
Considering the overall know how of music group i think a Behringer Drum Maschine could set itself apart from the masses by keeping in mind what every individual drum sound usually needs.


Dynamics, EQ and FX.

To different degrees, individual for the sound.

The kick needs compression, EQ may be distortion/saturation. The snare needs compression, EQ, reverb etc. You get the idea.

Rytm and Tempest, though being expensive, fall short in that department. They only provide this for the sum or as sends.

Haptically this could be implemented with a screen. When you tap the sound source the screen would switch to the coresponding mix parameters setup page, whilst analog knobby controls (like on the drum brute) are always present to tweak the sound source itself.

workflow/design

I am not a finger drummer myself, still i rather like pads. But i could very well do with xox like programming.

4-5 U (optionally rackmountable) desktop. This is useful for live and studio use.

I'd like it to have 8 outputs (fits so nicely to my X32s routing concept). 1 Mix stereo. 6 individual outs. The individual outs could be paired to stereo groups if needed be.

Send FX like delay or reverb are assignable to the outs.

(i dont care about colours or materials and such things)


enhancements

Some sounds usually need enhancements. May it be a layered kick/attack for the basedrum, or a second layer for the snare to beef it in the chorus.

Additionally to the analog drums there could be 4 sample based slots which could be assigned to trigger along with an analog sound slot. For paramaters: sample start, transpose, playmode (one shot, ADR, reverse), filter, ADR env would be fine for me (i am sure other people would want more).

Sequencer

Midi clock sync needs to be tight. Shuffle etc, are a must have. So is a metronome.

The resolution could be adjustable. The old drum machines had a rather coarse resolution, but it created their groove, especially in relation to the shuffle. I did read a Roger Linn interview some years ago where he stated that this basically was the (accidential) groove secret.

If you could add 4 to 8 pure sequencer tracks (not tied to the drum parts) assignable to Midi out and/or CV trigger gate it would become so much more than a drum machine. But since you will work on sequencing anyways, it could become a more than welcome addition without much additional work.

Parameter locking is really great too. The drum brute lacks that.

Connections

Most are already mentioned. Audio, midi, CV/gate. Controllers should send CC, sequencer should record CC.

Since i use an X32 mixer an AES 50 output would be fantastic!! We are talking about a bunch of outs, so it would be well worth it.


Its great to see Music group progressing in synth land. The DM12 is a tremendous synth. Full of ideas and possibilities. If you can manage even 50% of this level of innovation for a drum machine, then i am sure we are in for a real treat.

Best Regards
Coorec
Old 15th October 2016
  #26
PES
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Old 15th October 2016
  #27
Quote:
Originally Posted by glasspipe View Post
Hello Uli,

Something with deep drum synthesis capabilities, individual outs. Please, no more 808 and 909. We need something malleable with it's own voice and personality..
elektron? mfb? tempest?
Old 15th October 2016
  #28
Lives for gear
please whatever you make can it have trigger out so that you can 'play' it with drum pads, this increases the fun and also give opportunities for 'real' playing not just sequencers...


individual outs...

built in overdrive, reverb, delay etc per track

If you make it load samples with chopping etc it will then cost a lot more money ... so ....

perhaps make 2 units , one standalone analog drum machine with sequencer , trigger outs ... then another version, exactly the same that can load and tweak samples so you corner two markets at once!!!

simple one $400..... sample one $850

Kill all competition, except Drum Brute which everyone will already own!!
Old 15th October 2016
  #29
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Barfunkel's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tamprecision View Post
please:

a simple copy of a 909 with individual outputs

a simple copy of an 808 with individual outputs

no extra bells or whistles, just make sure they THUMP like the originals
Ermm, please no? Don't get me wrong, I love the classic drum machines, but there are plenty of clones already (both as gear and as plugins), the originals aren't rare + of course samples are one option.


It should THUMP like a 909 or an 808 though, that I at least can agree with.
Old 15th October 2016
  #30
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glasspipe's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by decoder23 View Post
elektron? mfb? tempest?

Ok then.. Maybe a bit more competitively priced?
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