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Behringer Analog Drum Machine
Old 28th December 2016
  #601
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ImNotDedyet's Avatar
There are a great number of analog drum machines out there other than the 808 and 909. The fact that you even mentioned those two as the basis for your "sound generation" means that you'll likely get similar sound capabilities in this new drum machine as one would get from those two - things I personally am not interested in at this point.

I'd much rather see you look at other analog machines to base yours on. Bear in mind, there are also a number of great drum modules in modular land as well.

But hey, it's easier to sell if you can mention an 808 or 909 or both in your marketing brochure. I get it, you're out to make money and the more you sell, the more money you make. It's just likely those sales won't be coming from me.
Old 28th December 2016
  #602
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Skip the analog drum machines and go straight to MPC style sampling. Hands on, muscle memory interface, real time controls over every parameter and per step parameter locks. Hardware Samplers are making a come back and Behringer ahead of the crowd instead of behind it could be very profitable.
Old 28th December 2016
  #603
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the_soulcatcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by HaveItAll View Post
Skip the analog drum machines and go straight to MPC style sampling. Hands on, muscle memory interface, real time controls over every parameter and per step parameter locks. Hardware Samplers are making a come back and Behringer ahead of the crowd instead of behind it could be very profitable.
maybe watch out NAMM 2017 for the new (stand alone) MPC
Old 28th December 2016
  #604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_soulcatcher View Post
maybe watch out NAMM 2017 for the new (stand alone) MPC
Deafening silence from Akai up to this point. I want this to be true though.
Old 29th December 2016
  #605
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HaveItAll View Post
Deafening silence from Akai up to this point. I want this to be true though.
Which is the best thing.. no denial.. so its coming. Question is, when it is available ..
Old 29th December 2016
  #606
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I like what Wave Alchemy have done with Revolution for Kontakt, I also like What Aly James Lab has done with VProm(Linndrum VST). I'd like something along these lines in hardware but with the addition of user samples.

I think cloning the 808/909 100% properly(Analog) at a budget price would 'maybe' sell bucketloads(DIY Yocto/DIY Nava/TR-8/Acidlab Miami/Detroit/Raw808 are the competition here), but unsure about an almost/based loosely on 808/909 drum machine, these already exist already for good prices(Drum Brute etc). Unless your thinking is you exactly can reproduce the classic 808/909 sound but then able to take it further if you so want..."BEYOND 809"

For me it what's missing is the other classics, Linndrum/DMX/Drum Trax/RZ-1 etc, only VST's have tapped into this market, Arturia Spark/Revolution/VProm etc. User samples a must though. "DRUMULI-1"....

What about a digital retro 'cartridge' drum machine, maybe!!!!? Then you could pay the original company's(Linn, Oberhiem, Dave Smith etc via sales of the carts). This idea maybe be silly...
Old 29th December 2016
  #607
Sweeeet. More clones. -____-
Old 29th December 2016
  #608
Whatever you do: Individual output for each voice AND individual effects for each voice. Oh, and more cowbell!
Old 29th December 2016
  #609
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Jamie munro's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by robot gigante View Post
More 808/909 based machines but with a new twist?

Meh.

Sorry. I guess it's to be expected though.
Show me electronic music that's popular or underground with any sort of useable fanbase that doesn't use those or similar sounds.

Please.

It Is how it is.

808 etc plus RYTM should be the baseline for @uli and his team to be looking at to be bettered, impressive and performance driven.
Old 29th December 2016
  #610
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robot gigante's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie munro View Post
Show me electronic music that's popular or underground with any sort of useable fanbase that doesn't use those or similar sounds.

Please.

It Is how it is.

808 etc plus RYTM should be the baseline for @uli and his team to be looking at to be bettered, impressive and performance driven.
That's fine, but geez, there are so many drum machines and sample libraries that cover those bases already. Can anyone say truthfully that they don't have easy access to those sounds?

The DM-12 fills a niche that was empty. A new 808/909-based machine is an also-ran in a very saturated market.
Old 29th December 2016
  #611
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Paul_G's Avatar
The dumbest thing with most 808 clones is that you can't tune the kick. I think an authentic 808 clone with a kick that you could pitch properly would be worth releasing.
Old 29th December 2016
  #612
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You can't tune the kick on an 808, so an 808 kick you could tune wouldn't be authentic
Old 29th December 2016
  #613
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie munro View Post
Show me electronic music that's popular or underground with any sort of useable fanbase that doesn't use those or similar sounds.

Please.

It Is how it is.

.


Do you have a couple of hours?

Though 'similar' is a broad concept I guess. But there's so much more than 808/909... really. Do you call a heavily processed 808, layered with about 10 more heavily processed 909 and 808s (think heavy distortion and compression etc.) similar to a stock 808/909? Because there's a whole genre that thrives on that concept alone....

Anyway, it's great that they check out the guts of those great legends. They are legendary for a reason and a perfect base to create something new, more tweakable, layerable etc.
Old 29th December 2016
  #614
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the_soulcatcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToyBox View Post
You can't tune the kick on an 808, so an 808 kick you could tune wouldn't be authentic
haha, well as Mr. Behringer said - they are NOT going to deliver clones
Old 29th December 2016
  #615
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Paul_G's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToyBox View Post
You can't tune the kick on an 808, so an 808 kick you could tune wouldn't be authentic
Oh, how did I miss that? I meant sonically not a clone of the features but thanks for pointing out the obvious for those that maybe also live on planet pedant.
Old 29th December 2016
  #616
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robinkle's Avatar
 

Roland ACB clones does the job for me, I don't see the point with yet another 808/909 clone. I would like a Simmons SDS-V/8 clone though.
Old 29th December 2016
  #617
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the_soulcatcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by robinkle View Post
Roland ACB clones does the job for me, I don't see the point with yet another 808/909 clone. I would like a Simmons SDS-V/8 clone though.
If the TR-8 just would have more than just 4 individual physical audio outputs and a sample playback option,
I'd be sorted too...
Old 29th December 2016
  #618
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gjvti's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli Behringer View Post
Dear all,

first of all I like to wish you a Merry Xmas and a Happy New Year.

Sometime in July this year I announced we are looking into developing analog as well digital drum machines. I thought I would now share with you aspects of the development process.

At this stage our main focus is on sound creation and for this purpose we resurrected the highly regarded 808 and 909 analog drum machines from the '80's.

Attached are the pics of the first evaluation boards that allow us to study and compare the sound of analog drum instruments. However, our intention is not to clone these products but to evaluate analog sound generation and add a great user interface and sequencer.

I can tell you that the team is having lots of fun listening to these drum sounds that greatly contributed to amazing music in the past. It is actually not surprising that people gravitate to analog sounds as it is the imperfection that evokes emotions. Perhaps it is the fact that we humans are analog, too:-)

While we are far away from releasing a finished product, we thought we would get you involved in this enjoyable design process.

As always we love to hear your opinions.

Uli
If you are asking.... Modern drum machine in my opinion in general should be like this Synthstrom - Deluge probably with more reasonable screen for menu diving, but idea of synth parameter editing (short cut system to access most important synth parameters) via second function of pads/keys is something what must be set as a standard for musical device with pads/keys. And I really don't care about how much analogue (Elektron Rythm) or virtual analogue (Deluge) it is as long as it sounds good/acceptable to me.

In the end, sorry with all respect to what you did introducing DM12, which perfectly fills its own niche in the market instantly covering most analogue needs, I don't see that Behringer or any other big name in music industry is capable of doing anything near what one man form New Zeland did in therms of drum machine/sequencer.
Old 29th December 2016
  #619
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the_soulcatcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by gjvti View Post
If you are asking.... Modern drum machine in my opinion in general should be like this Synthstrom - Deluge probably with more reasonable screen for menu diving, but idea of synth parameter editing (short cut system to access most important synth parameters) via second function of pads/keys is something what must be set as a standard for musical device with pads/keys. And I really don't care about how much analogue (Elektron Rythm) or virtual analogue (Deluge) it is as long as it sounds good/acceptable to me.

In the end, sorry with all respect to what you did introducing DM12, which perfectly fills its own niche in the market instantly covering most analogue needs, I don't see that Behringer or any other big name in music industry is capable of doing anything near what one man form New Zeland did in therms of drum machine/sequencer.
groovebox vs drum machine ?
Furthermore jus 1 midi in/out port is a bit poor for that deluge feature set, imo
Old 29th December 2016
  #620
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gjvti's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_soulcatcher View Post
groovebox vs drum machine ?
Furthermore jus 1 midi in/out port is a bit poor for that deluge feature set, imo
Is there anything what stops you from using grove box as drum machine? From your perspective then Elektron Rythm is grove box as well? What makes difference between groove box and drum machine then?
Deluge midi - from what I was told it has separate Din Midi and USB midi.
Old 29th December 2016
  #621
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the_soulcatcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by gjvti View Post
Is there anything what stops you from using grove box as drum machine? From your perspective then Elektron Rythm is grove box as well? What makes difference between groove box and drum machine then?
Deluge midi - from what I was told it has separate Din Midi and USB midi.
the thing that stops me using a groovebox is mostly the user unfriendly handling compared to a drum machine - I'm a knob per function head.
And USB Midi doesn't help at all if you want to control hardware synths/ samplers. So only 1 physical midi in/out port is not enough
Old 29th December 2016
  #622
Quote:
Originally Posted by HaveItAll View Post
Skip the analog drum machines and go straight to MPC style sampling. Hands on, muscle memory interface, real time controls over every parameter and per step parameter locks. Hardware Samplers are making a come back and Behringer ahead of the crowd instead of behind it could be very profitable.
This!

But since this thread is specifically about analog drum machines, why not make it simple:
Do what the Tempest should have been. Hybrid drum machine with MPC and step sequencing, WITH the ability to import samples.
Old 29th December 2016
  #623
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VennD68 View Post
In 2017 being Analog should merely NOT be enough.
Any modern drum machine should incorporate
1. analog
2. FM and advanced FM (2 to 4OP) (using samples too)
3. sampling
4. physicial modelling
5. synthesis

Something akin to the marriage of an Elektron Rytm, the FM styled voices of the Korg ER-1 (but with more flexibiltiy), Sampling with granular and slicing modes, straight up classic XOX analog styled sounds and the kind of features found in a Kawai XD-5 for layering, synthesis and sound shaping.
It should have good effects, a mod matrix and a poly-rhythmic sequencer.
Right now I use my V-Synth, Analog Four, TR-8, Monomachine and a few Reaktor ensembles to pull off what a modern drum machine should.
Welling up over analog remakes and having OMG moments over analog drum machines kind of misses the point.
I want the felixibilty of my combined set up in one well thought out, ergonomic unit that has enough balls to be forward thinking whilst being inviting, easy to use and with a great GUI.
Is that too much to ask ?

very good ! i second all of this.

how boring that still people are crying for another 808/909
Old 29th December 2016
  #624
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelcitysi View Post
This!

But since this thread is specifically about analog drum machines, why not make it simple:
Do what the Tempest should have been. Hybrid drum machine with MPC and step sequencing, WITH the ability to import samples.
that's the bad news:
that neither AlphaBase nor DrumBrute nor the coming Behringers

have big pads like an INSTRUMENT should have nor the pad-to-pattern capability of the Tempest

your always tied to step grid. boring.
Old 29th December 2016
  #625
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonStrom View Post
that's the bad news:
that neither AlphaBase nor DrumBrute nor the coming Behringers

have big pads like an INSTRUMENT should have nor the pad-to-pattern capability of the Tempest

your always tied to step grid. boring.
Probably cause it's cheaper and less complex to implement x0x sequencing as opposed to studio centerpiece sequencing in DAWs and MPCs. Despite all the hype of the DrumBrutes, Rytms, etc., the Tempest is still the most playable and most flexible sonically. I'd argue that it's hybrid structure and built-in sample bank makes it one of the most powerful poly-synths period. If it could just sample and sequence external gear, my god it would be a standalone masterpiece. The workflow on it is amazing, never stop playback while recording is really underrated.

Behringer, please consult with Roger Linn!!!!!
Old 29th December 2016
  #626
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I still hope, Behringer will go on with exploring new territories as they do with the DM12. A simple 808/909 clone WITHOUT instrument like features would be quite disappointing.
Old 29th December 2016
  #627
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@uli

Giving this even more thought it would be fantastic to have a drum machine capable of offering multiple filters as well as additional sound shaping and synthesis per voice. Also no less than 14 voices/instruments, each with outs. CVs, midi, etc. A FX section as well with delay, ring mod, compressor, drive, fuzz. Some of this was mentioned in my earlier post but it bares repeating. So append this to what I said before.
Old 29th December 2016
  #628
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wehkah's Avatar
 

A mixup of MPC and drumsynths with AKAI/MPC import would be really nice to have. It can have a simple monochrome display but rock solid pads with great response, longlife faders/pots/buttons and it should be serviceable (easy parts replacement etc.). Sampleslicing with synth layering, a few different filters, a compressor, limiter and eq for each pad/sound slot or group. The sequencer should have a groove / swing template and shuffle feature. Sampler/synth parameters automation record and editing would be nice too (sample startpoint, loop start end etc.).

With all this features it can still become a simple tool like the famous SP404(it would be cool to have a firmware mod for this). The market is open for such drum/sampling tools around 500€/$. A lot of beatmakers are waiting for this since the good MPC has left the building.
Old 29th December 2016
  #629
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horseface's Avatar
Make a drumbrute clone, but allow for every drum voice to be properly tuned. And a nice implementation of different time signatures where a pattern doesn't 'splill' into the next page.

Or an analogue version of something like a Korg ER-1, but with 16 drum voices and can make tea.

And stop calling the Deep Mind any kind of success until it A) ships to retail and B) is received well by independent reviewers who aren't paid off or given a free review unit.
Old 29th December 2016
  #630
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_G View Post
Oh, how did I miss that? I meant sonically not a clone of the features but thanks for pointing out the obvious for those that maybe also live on planet pedant.
I was expressing confusion, but if you want Captain Obvious Pedant I can do that too

What you've missed is that not everyone knows that you can't tune the kick on a stock 808: most people haven't used one or otherwise have any reason to known its specs intimately.

Given that, your critic of some clones for ultimately being authentic followed by your support for an "authentic 808 clone" that's not really authentic (not even sonically, pitch is part of the sound, or at least I do not consider pitched up/down recordings of my voice to be authentic) was confusing.

Cue my earlier comment. Should be clearer now.

Btw, I get what you're getting at and generally agree with it
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