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Dave Smith Pioneer DJ Collaboration: Toraiz SP-16
Old 2 weeks ago
  #2401
mp3
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coleman Young View Post
You would find the value in the "amp envelope" section.

You are misunderstanding how this works. The SP does not give you an objective note length(1/4, 1/8, 1/16), instead, the envelope gives you a "hold" value of 1-127.

So if you want a short "note" value, hold down the step button and reduce the "hold" value until it sounds good. If you want it longer, go higher in the range. You are using a custom envelope shape for every event you trigger to simulate midi note values. You have to use your ear to decide how long a note would play.

Your other option is to go to "gate" mode and then the sample plays back until you take your finger off the pad. I always use "one shot" mode because I don't really use audio loops or long samples.

It sounds more complicated than it is when you try to explain it. If you sit down with the SP for an hour a lot of it will come intuitively.
Perfect! Thanks for the explanation.

edit: but if you do it the "gate" mode way and record it, how do you go back and edit note length? Or can you?

Last edited by mp3; 2 weeks ago at 05:16 PM..
Old 2 weeks ago
  #2402
Gear Addict
 

some sequencers quantize only globally, some sequencers can quantize on a per track basis with different quantize settings per track if wanted, and some sequencers can even quantize on a per pad or event basis
Old 2 weeks ago
  #2403
Gear Addict
 

three totally different price points and pretty different units also.. pick a price and just go with it..

you would not be disappointed with any of them.. and its far better just to get something and stop the paralysis by analysis cycle.. been there myself way to many times..:D


Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain 8 View Post
ah it's maddening, trying to figure out whether to get the toraiz, digitakt, or rytm 2 .
if only the digitakt was batt powered then I'd get it for sure and still get one of the other two but since it's not I don't want to chance it.
gotta feeling that the rytm and toraiz might have some very nice surprises
Dont wish to sound an ass, but really none of these are in fact "issues" ..

They are simply features that some would prefer to be more expansive than they currently are.. personally i am fine with how it is right now, and would prefer other improvements for fluidity of use, sample direct to pad, midi in, extra IFX etc.

Bottom line is that if these things are critical to you, then you should not buy the Toraiz.. Not being harsh but having wasted $$$$ for a lesson hard learned with NI & Maschine in that promises and roadmaps are useless once they have your money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain 8 View Post
have pioneer responded to these issues of quantize and swing and are they planning on changing that cause those are some serious hamstrings?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #2404
Lives for gear
 
Eigenwert's Avatar
I think it really depends on what you're doing. There are people who were dissatisfied with the Toraiz, there are people who were dissatisfied with the Digitakt, there are people who sold the Rytm and went for another HW solution.

IMO it's very wise to look into what each of those boxes canNOT do and decide if it's gonna work for you. For example if you need a backup feature or stereo sampling stay away from the Digitakt, if you need polyrhythm stay away from the Toraiz etc... To name a very few examples of things that are often described as "dealbreakers" on GS.

For example I clearly prefer the Toraiz at this point while others say they'd never buy it... It's impossible to give you a good advice because the opinions are diverging so much.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #2405
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CarLofgren's Avatar
 

I just wanted to chime in regarding the SP16 vs AR comparison.

Right now I am doing a little personal experiment. I sampled around 120 of the most interesting sounds from the old Emu Orbit module (wonderfully 90s cheesy dance sounds). I loaded up the sounds in the SP16 and the AR - and I will do this for the MPC Live as well later on.

For me the Toraiz basically writes the ideas by itself. I cannot explain it better. Idea after idea comes out and I never get stuck for longer than a few minutes before some other creative solution presents itself. Extremely fluid.

The AR is much harder to work with from a creative perspective. Cool ideas comes out - but nowhere close to the SP16. I have to work harder for the same quality of ideas to come out of the AR compared with the SP16.

That being said - the AR is a gorgeous sounding machine. Great filter, overdrive and effects.

/C
Old 2 weeks ago
  #2406
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarLofgren View Post
the AR is a gorgeous sounding machine. Great filter, overdrive and effects.

/C
You mean the sp-16? or it was just sarcasm at its best!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #2407
Lives for gear
 
Eigenwert's Avatar
CarLofgren, what you describe about the SP-16 is exactly what I feel about the device! It even made it to the center of my desktop because of this
Old 2 weeks ago
  #2408
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CarLofgren's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Transilmania View Post
You mean the sp-16? or it was just sarcasm at its best!
Sorry for not being clear Both. The AR sounds great and so does the SP16. The AR have better effects than the SP16 though. But much fewer. I just meant I really dig the sound of both.

/C
Old 2 weeks ago
  #2409
mp3
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarLofgren View Post
For me the Toraiz basically writes the ideas by itself. I cannot explain it better. Idea after idea comes out and I never get stuck for longer than a few minutes before some other creative solution presents itself. Extremely fluid.


That's the most important thing to me. I use hardware and hands-on user interfaces like Ableton Push to generate ideas, so the better a given piece of gear is at that, the better it is for me. Features are a distant second.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #2410
Gear Maniac
 

i gotta have it.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #2411
Gear Addict
 

for me it's important to consider everything.... I'm just learning as much as I can about them all before the end of the year when they all will be available with their respective upcoming updates.... then I'll make the decision but it does get harder and harder to wait
Old 1 week ago
  #2412
Gear Addict
 

To a large part, for me the ease of use directly translates to speed, fun and productivity.. and this is somewhere where the SP-16 outshines everything..

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarLofgren View Post
I just wanted to chime in regarding the SP16 vs AR comparison.

Right now I am doing a little personal experiment. I sampled around 120 of the most interesting sounds from the old Emu Orbit module (wonderfully 90s cheesy dance sounds). I loaded up the sounds in the SP16 and the AR - and I will do this for the MPC Live as well later on.

For me the Toraiz basically writes the ideas by itself. I cannot explain it better. Idea after idea comes out and I never get stuck for longer than a few minutes before some other creative solution presents itself. Extremely fluid.

The AR is much harder to work with from a creative perspective. Cool ideas comes out - but nowhere close to the SP16. I have to work harder for the same quality of ideas to come out of the AR compared with the SP16.

That being said - the AR is a gorgeous sounding machine. Great filter, overdrive and effects.

/C
Old 1 week ago
  #2413
Gear Nut
 
shwanton's Avatar
 

Old 1 week ago
  #2414
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by shwanton View Post
Not sure if this is the Toraiz MK2, I hope not.
Feeling gutted... I am guessing they cut down the sampler features cos DJ! and put it into an XDJ compatible form factor. This thing must have been in the pipeline long enough that Pioneer knew the Toraiz SP16 wasn't going to get past the 1.3 roadmap.
Old 1 week ago
  #2415
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by shwanton View Post
https://www.reddit.com/r/DJs/comment...layer_spotted/

New Pioneer CDJ/Toraiz/DDJ-XP1 thing from a dirtybird party over the weekend.

Not sure if this is the Toraiz MK2, I hope not.
the object in your picture has all the same pieces as the Mk1 (screen with similar layout in one pic showing sample names, encoders, step seq. buttons, touch-sens strip), so it would make sense to assume that it is the Mk2. But it also has a pitchfader and not knobs that look lke the Filter on the Mk1.

if you looked at the Mk1 next to the cdj&djm setup it was the wrong shape, it was rotated 90 degrees from the rest. so the new form just makes it same size and shape as rest of the dj range. how convenient the placement of the encoders are remains to be seen.

Wouldn't a Mk2 suggest new software and features? Looks good for those that don't have a Mk1, sucks if you've just bought a Mk1.
But it could be a new type of media player. I guess the news will break quite soon either way now there are pictures. If no serious sites blog about it on Monday US time, i guess we can assume they know and the press release is embargoed.
Old 1 week ago
  #2416
Pioneer mentioned on their forum, that sp-16 will not have a mk2 pretty soon
Old 1 week ago
  #2417
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PatrickBeatman View Post
Wouldn't a Mk2 suggest new software and features?
Pioneer's mk2s don't always have major new features but over time the mk1 stops getting updates. I suspect they realised the Toraiz sampler didn't have enough cpu power - because they haven't delivered 2 fx per pad as shown in early prerelease demoes.

But the XDJ physical format is a surprise, kind of like realising the original form factor was a mistake? We'd better get some concrete news from Pioneer soon...
Old 1 week ago
  #2418
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Transilmania View Post
Pioneer mentioned on their forum, that sp-16 will not have a mk2 pretty soon
if that is the case, then it would be more likely to assume its a player with sample pads. i don't use recordbox, but perhaps there is functionality in it that would make it make sense.
Old 1 week ago
  #2419
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Cornish1999's Avatar
Looks like a player with the pitch adjust
Old 1 week ago
  #2420
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CarLofgren's Avatar
 

If I'm not totally mistaken Pioneer have a tradition of releasing a flagship and a year down the line a "light" version (and years beyond that an app ).

/C
Old 1 week ago
  #2421
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Eigenwert's Avatar
A light version would be great (as long as it's not only mono LOL)
Old 1 week ago
  #2422
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarLofgren View Post
If I'm not totally mistaken Pioneer have a tradition of releasing a flagship and a year down the line a "light" version (and years beyond that an app ).

/C

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eigenwert View Post
A light version would be great (as long as it's not only mono LOL)
It would make sense as their direct competitors, i.e. Akai and Elektron, already have flagship products and cheaper ones.
That's a piece of pie Pioneer would want to eat, I'm sure...
Old 1 week ago
  #2423
mp3
Lives for gear
 

Supposedly it's called the DJS-1000.

Pioneer DJ Teases DJS-1000: Toraiz/CDJ Hybrid Sequencer/Sampler - DJ TechTools

I have a feeling it's a middle-ground product. If the name is any indication, this is a 'DJ Sampler' so I'm thinking more performance oriented and less suited for production (and it seems to be missing the DSI filter - unless they made it controllable by the encoders). Not too worried about the Toraiz being obsoleted by this new widget. Yet...
Old 1 week ago
  #2424
Gear Nut
 

Hopefully this means that the SP-16 will be considered production equipment and the OS will be developed in that direction. I'd rather have pioneer create two units that do one thing well than having just one unit in that category that isn't great in the club or the studio.
Old 1 week ago
  #2425
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coleman Young View Post
Hopefully this means that the SP-16 will be considered production equipment and the OS will be developed in that direction. I'd rather have pioneer create two units that do one thing well than having just one unit in that category that isn't great in the club or the studio.
I can cling to that hope!
Old 1 week ago
  #2426
Here for the gear
 

Well the form factor of DJS-1000 is only good to fit in DJ booth but other than that there should be absolutely no advantage over that of SP-16.
For production as well as performance without DJ gear, nobody would ever want touch screen to be moved further up and step buttons to be divided into 2 rows.

I am sure Pioneer should be aware of it and I think they will not call it another Toraiz SP.

Also, if the perfect companion for CDJs is the way to go for, current OS 1.3 is already good enough in most cases I guess.
The fact they seems to be putting so much effort into 1.4 leads me to believe they are still trying to stay in the game of production.
Old 6 days ago
  #2427
mp3
Lives for gear
 

My Toraiz arrived last night! Didn't get a chance to open the box, but I will be setting some time aside this weekend to dig in.
Old 6 days ago
  #2428
don't forget the survey on their forum!
Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
My Toraiz arrived last night! Didn't get a chance to open the box, but I will be setting some time aside this weekend to dig in.
Old 6 days ago
  #2429
mp3
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Transilmania View Post
don't forget the survey on their forum!
Noted!
Old 6 days ago
  #2430
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Eigenwert's Avatar
Don't forget to tell them you demand them not to make the timing in sync worse by a single sample in future updates as the timing is excellent. It locks to sync much better than a lot of other devices. It's really great and hopefully won't be any worse - even not slightly - in any future version
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