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MPC 1000 blows iPads out of the water! !!!
Old 26th March 2015
  #121
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_apprentice View Post

MPCs:
- Solely focused on sampling. Closed platform, no installs of additional apps to add better instruments or FX possible.
- Not very mobile.
Sampling is the only sound engine but not the entire focus of the thing. The sequencer and controllers are the biggest strengths IMO.
MPCs don't run apps. They run firmware.
Ever heard of JJOS?
Google it. There are several versions of it. So you can pick the firmware best optimized to your own workflow
With an iPad you don't have the option of an alternate OS. You are at the mercy of the big corporate forced obsolescence machine....

I find my MPC very mobile, I take it on my bike frequently. sure it won't fit in your pocket but an ipad doesn't either.

but thanks for the perspective


Last edited by Hollowman9; 26th March 2015 at 09:23 PM..
Old 26th March 2015
  #122
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Not owning either device, I don't really have a dog in this fight but I have yet to see anyone do this on an iPad



Old 26th March 2015
  #123
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsutek View Post
IBTL

These threads are making me hate my iPad LOL
This thread isn't about hating anything. It is a reaction to some very rude and inconsiderate thread derailing by a very persistent ipad evangelist who refused to stop spamming and trolling a thread even when asked to by the OP and caused that thread to get locked by the mods.

I started this thread hoping he would divert his energies here instead of being disruptive to others. So this thread had good intentions but you know what they say about that.
Don't worry about your ipad. Use it for what it is and listen to some punk rock while you're here.
Look on the bright side - you can surf for porn on your music production box

I wonder if we can get an XXX-JJOS version made?
Old 26th March 2015
  #124
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tsutek's Avatar
 

Yeah I know, I watched this whole thing unfold over the days. And I know you might have had good intentions but looks like it's pretty much a new iteration of the same (sans the punk vids)

fwiw I am still trying to use my iPad for making music.. but it keeps on disappointing. Perhaps one day
Old 26th March 2015
  #125
Well at the risk of derailing my own thread I'm sure having read through it all you are aware of other options to both MPCs and Ipads. Personally I am kinda excited about Pyramid.
It looks to be promising. And I am reading up a little on tablet PCs. Some look like potential options and have capabilities like a regular computer does.
Personally I wouldn't mind one that I could use to run Win XP inside a virtual machine for all of my synth editor programs for my hardware synths. It would be neat to just carry a little gadget around to each synth and have the editor available as I am playing.
I am really looking forward to this - http://www.ubuntu.com/tablet

Last edited by Hollowman9; 26th March 2015 at 09:57 PM..
Old 26th March 2015
  #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollowman9 View Post
MPCs don't run apps. They run firmware.
Ever heard of JJOS?
Google it. There are several versions of it. So you can pick the firmware best optimized to your own workflow
You can't seriously compare MPC firmware with iPad apps or OS. It's not even in the same league.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollowman9 View Post
With an iPad you don't have the option of an alternate OS. You are at the mercy of the big corporate forced obsolescence machine....
Actually the original stock firmware for MPCs embodies what it means to be a "corporate forced obsolescence machine". Standalone hardware like MPCs back in those days almost never got updates or bug fixes once released. They were essentially obsolete the moment you bought them.

And when the Akai corporation went out of business as hardware samplers became less relevant and was bought out by Numark, they stopped paying royalties to folks like Roger Linn and screwed over the MPC developers who were immediately let go without any compensation. One of those developers got pissed and released JJOS commercially out of spite.

Also, iPads do have the option of an "alternate OS" in the form of "jailbreaking" which is perfectly legal and free.
Old 26th March 2015
  #127
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tsutek's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollowman9 View Post
Well at the risk of derailing my own thread I'm sure having read through it all you are aware of other options to both MPCs and Ipads. Personally I am kinda excited about Pyramid.
It looks to be promising. And I am reading up a little on tablet PCs. Some look like potential options and have capabilities like a regular computer does.
Personally I wouldn't mind one that I could use to run Win XP inside a virtual machine for all of my synth editor programs for my hardware synths. It would be neat to just carry a little gadget around to each synth and have the editor available as I am playing.
I am really looking forward to this - Ubuntu on tablets | Ubuntu
To me (AFAIK), there is no alternative to a 1k running JJOSXL. But excuse me for interrupting, I didn't really add anything constructive to this discussion. Will check out the Pyramid tho

Last edited by tsutek; 26th March 2015 at 10:38 PM..
Old 26th March 2015
  #128
Gear Guru
Part of me really wants an iPad ... But when I think about it, all the software/editors I like are PC only.
Old 26th March 2015
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollowman9 View Post
This thread isn't about hating anything. It is a reaction to some very rude and inconsiderate thread derailing by a very persistent ipad evangelist who refused to stop spamming and trolling a thread even when asked to by the OP and caused that thread to get locked by the mods.
coven has been spamming hard. It's... more than a little annoying, to put it very politely.
Troll? Youth? OCD? Ulterior motive?

The only reason I want an iPad, and I don't really, is for the Qu remote app for my mixer and another remote app for my camera. I like hardware, Electribes specifically. And punk rock.

On the British side, here's the Clash, Specials, Jam, Joy Division. Enjoy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dobA11UM9bA
Old 26th March 2015
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coven View Post
Also I find that the iPad is better than a regular keyboard or other MIDI controllers for certain things because of the touch interface. It's not a mod wheel/pitch wheel thing. It's more like an amazing ribbon controller. You can glide from note to note at any speed and add in natural vibrato by moving your finger like on a guitar or violin. Much more natural than playing a keyboard. And for some apps, velocity is controlled by playing higher or lower on the key rather than harder or softer. You get used to it quickly. It's just like learning a new instrument. In the end it's much more expressive than a typical keyboard.
What you're describing is an X-Y pad. These have been around for a long time and there are even some with pressure sensitivity. The ipad probably even falls at the lower end of X-Y pads in terms of resolution and response.
Old 26th March 2015
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coven View Post
You can't seriously compare MPC firmware with iPad apps or OS. It's not even in the same league.
Sure the MPC is limited in features compared to a computer with new software able to be written for it--but what it was built to do, it does extremely well.
That is the mark of a true instrument.

I suppose the ipad was built to be a device for entertainment and it does do that extremely well, so there's that...
Old 26th March 2015
  #132
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jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Subject Zero View Post
Not owning either device, I don't really have a dog in this fight but I have yet to see anyone do this on an iPad...
ok? he's doing your standard finger-drumming from the MPC pads. anyone with an iPad (running an app that you can load your own samples into) and a pad controller can do the same. hell, even a keyboard controller would do the same thing.

how is this not obvious to you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsynth View Post
What you're describing is an X-Y pad. These have been around for a long time and there are even some with pressure sensitivity. The ipad probably even falls at the lower end of X-Y pads in terms of resolution and response.
no, he's talking about a touch interface like on AniMoog, similar to what is used on the Buchla Music Easel. a more extreme version would be the Haken Continuum controller. quite a bit more expressive than your standard keyboard controller. you don't find much like this in hardware, and certainly not on an MPC. your traditional MPC is absolutely balls as far as any sort of hands-on control.
Old 26th March 2015
  #133
Quote:
Originally Posted by coven View Post
You can't seriously compare MPC firmware with iPad apps or OS. It's not even in the same league.


Actually the original stock firmware for MPCs embodies what it means to be a "corporate forced obsolescence machine". Standalone hardware like MPCs back in those days almost never got updates or bug fixes once released. They were essentially obsolete the moment you bought them.

And when the Akai corporation went out of business as hardware samplers became less relevant and was bought out by Numark, they stopped paying royalties to folks like Roger Linn and screwed over the MPC developers who were immediately let go without any compensation. One of those developers got pissed and released JJOS commercially out of spite.

Also, iPads do have the option of an "alternate OS" in the form of "jailbreaking" which is perfectly legal and free.
Taking quotes out of context and putting a spin on them is not helping you to make your case.
One such victim of your rabid quoting has already posted about selling his ipad and getting another mpc.
Attempting to put words in my mouth not only insults me but shows how belligerent you are towards others.
Maybe this is not your intention but perhaps we cannot tell the difference.

As for MPCs being obsolete the fact that the arguments presented in this thread including yours is of significant importance in that the mpc is being compared favorably with something brand new. Perhaps by a limited technical definition an MPC is obsolete but not in practice.

And JJOS is further proof that these production machines are far from being totally obsolete even technically.


And keep the punk rock coming! Loving it all so far!
Old 26th March 2015
  #134
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsutek View Post
To me (AFAIK), there is no alternative to a 1k running JJOSXL. But excuse me for interrupting, I didn't really add anything constructive to this discussion. Will check out the Pyramid tho
No interrupting us MPC ****s please!
Another alternative is the mpc4000 and 5000. If this thread was mpc4000/5000 blows iPads out of the water I'm thinking there would be little if any argument there.
Few would want to appear so silly in public.

And another note regarding obsolescence.
With each major release of iOS features are added and removed. If the producer of the audio app you rely on most doesn't provide an update or new version that app is in limbo.
That leaves you SOL if the new iOS took away something that app uses for a dependency. Firmware has the virtue of never getting obsolete. Ever...

Last edited by Hollowman9; 27th March 2015 at 12:01 AM..
Old 27th March 2015
  #135
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
ok? he's doing your standard finger-drumming from the MPC pads. anyone with an iPad (running an app that you can load your own samples into) and a pad controller can do the same. hell, even a keyboard controller would do the same thing.

how is this not obvious to you?

I said on an iPad, not on an iPad with an external controller. When you have to add an external controller to an ipad it's no longer a stand alone device, which I think defeats the purpose of the comparison.

How is this not obvious to you?
Old 27th March 2015
  #136
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jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsutek View Post
To me (AFAIK), there is no alternative to a 1k running JJOSXL.
for what purpose? sequencing drums/samples and several pieces of hardware? sounds good, the MPC is perfect for that. i haven't looked into external sequencing from the iPad, but i don't think there's any reason why it couldn't work just as well for most people with the right app. people are already sequencing external gear pretty well with it, right?

if i remember correctly, this whole thing came up because someone wanted a portable all-in-one 'groovebox' solution, no? for that use, something like an MPC pales in comparison to what you can do with an iPad and a few apps.
Old 27th March 2015
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
ok? he's doing your standard finger-drumming from the MPC pads. anyone with an iPad (running an app that you can load your own samples into) and a pad controller can do the same. hell, even a keyboard controller would do the same thing.

how is this not obvious to you?
What's obvious is that we're just talking about the ipad standalone. Obviously, you can tack on all sorts of controllers to the ipad (you could even MIDI up an MPC as a controller). But then there is nothing special about the ipad used this way compared to a laptop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
no, he's talking about a touch interface like on AniMoog, similar to what is used on the Buchla Music Easel. a more extreme version would be the Haken Continuum controller. quite a bit more expressive than your standard keyboard controller. you don't find much like this in hardware, and certainly not on an MPC. your traditional MPC is absolutely balls as far as any sort of hands-on control.
Hands-on control? How about the velocity sensitive pads for fingerdrumming; the ipad kind of falls flat on its face on that one. The MPC was not built to be a general purpose controller--it has all the physical controls necessary to operate itself quite well like any other serious musical instrument. And anyway if you're really after hands-on control, something like a BCR2000 would be far superior to the ipad.

And comparing the touchscreen on the ipad to a Haken Continuum?
Old 27th March 2015
  #138
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollowman9 View Post
And keep the punk rock coming! Loving it all so far!
From the bay...


To LA...


The midwest...
Old 27th March 2015
  #139
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jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Subject Zero View Post
I said on an iPad, not on an iPad with an external controller. When you have to add an external controller to an ipad it's no longer a stand alone device, which I think defeats the purpose of the comparison.
seriously?



...and how many people actually do this sort of thing? it's like thinking you need a 4x4 truck in downtown Miami. if finger-drumming static samples is your thing, sure, buy an MPC. for much of anything else (besides sequencing external MIDI gear), i wouldn't suggest it these days.
Old 27th March 2015
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
for what purpose? sequencing drums/samples and several pieces of hardware? sounds good, the MPC is perfect for that. i haven't looked into external sequencing from the iPad, but i don't think there's any reason why it couldn't work just as well for most people with the right app. people are already sequencing external gear pretty well with it, right?

if i remember correctly, this whole thing came up because someone wanted a portable all-in-one 'groovebox' solution, no? for that use, something like an MPC pales in comparison to what you can do with an iPad and a few apps.
OK give me a list of all the apps and hardware necessary to do the following on the ipad:

1) Realtime polyphonic multitimbral sequencing of up to 32 external modules.
2) Fingerdrumming on 16 level velocity sensitive pads.
3) Sampling and sample processing, waveform editing, etc.
4) FX
5) 64 tracks of either audio (JJOS) or MIDI data.

These are all the things I routinely do with nothing but the MPC.

Looking forward to that list.
Old 27th March 2015
  #141
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post

if i remember correctly, this whole thing came up because someone wanted a portable all-in-one 'groovebox' solution, no? for that use, something like an MPC pales in comparison to what you can do with an iPad and a few apps.
FYI, the OP of the thread where this all originated didn't care about portability at all. There was another very similar thread more pertaining to portable grooveboxes.

An ipad and a few apps has potential. But for it to take the place of an MPC it requires addons and this takes away from its portability somewhat. For it to take the place of an MPC in a larger studio setting is doubtful but apparently not impossible with some constraints. But this is very dependent on context and workflow preferences so is not easy to debate intelligently.

My own criteria will be very different from the next person.
And this is where people are taking issue with the whole iPads blow everything out of the water bravado so brazenly flung about by a few people who do not seem to have enough experience to make such bold statements. And such statements are unproductive regardless who makes them.

....says the person who named this thread.

Last edited by Hollowman9; 27th March 2015 at 12:44 AM..
Old 27th March 2015
  #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
...and how many people actually do this sort of thing? it's like thinking you need a 4x4 truck in downtown Miami. if finger-drumming static samples is your thing, sure, buy an MPC. for much of anything else (besides sequencing external MIDI gear), i wouldn't suggest it these days.
Not sure what you mean by static samples, but on the MPC you can layer 4 samples on a single pad and have them trigger at different velocities (how hard you hit). Try that on an ipad
Old 27th March 2015
  #143
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jbuonacc's Avatar
as i said, i'm not sure about your #1 , but i don't think sequencing external MIDI was really the focus of this. neither was finger drumming "on 16 velocity sensitive pads", and i'm sure i'd tell 8/10 people to piss off if they think they "required" this.

lone MPC vs iPad/Gadget/etc for music production on the go? it could work for me if i needed it to, but the MPC would not be my first choice. i'm not completely sold on the iPad either, but if i had to choose one option for what i'd like to do musically there wouldn't be much to think about. anything that i can imagine doing on the MPC, i could pretty easily do with the iPad/Gadget. plenty easy to think of stuff that can be done with an iPad which can't be done with an MPC.
Old 27th March 2015
  #145
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jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsynth View Post
Not sure what you mean by static samples, but on the MPC you can layer 4 samples on a single pad and have them trigger at different velocities (how hard you hit). Try that on an ipad
i don't even know why i bother...

like this is a selling point compared to everything else i can do with an iPad? i don't do this anyways, and it's hardly necessary for it to work as you describe in most any situation other than finger drumming. actually, for the most part it's a useless option and i'm surprised you brought it up. anyway, they're still static samples. honestly, most any use of samples on the iPad would be just as static, but at least you have the option of things like Samplr/Borderlands/etc. try doing anything remotely like that on an MPC. not even worth a "lol". i'm sure you're aware that you can assign sample-start to velocity on the MPC, but i'd certainly rather have the control that the iPad allows in doing stuff like this.

if someone wants to be AraabMuzik or Jeremy Ellis, you wouldn't see me trying to talk them out of something like an MPC (or Maschine if they're already ITB or just starting). other than that, besides very specific needs (mainly sequencing external MIDI), i'd have a hard time recommending an MPC to anyone these days.

i certainly wouldn't say that the iPad is the better choice flat out, it really depends on the user's actual needs (not what they think they need because they saw some video, or someone here telling them they need all this or that - what they need to make the music that they enjoy, and have fun doing it).
Old 27th March 2015
  #146
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Last edited by jbuonacc; 27th March 2015 at 02:07 AM..
Old 27th March 2015
  #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
as i said, i'm not sure about your #1 , but i don't think sequencing external MIDI was really the focus of this. neither was finger drumming "on 16 velocity sensitive pads", and i'm sure i'd tell 8/10 people to piss off if they think they "required" this.
This whole thing started because coven insisted that the ipad "blows the MPC out of the water." It was obvious to me then and obvious to everyone now that that was a ridiculous statement. Because like you said above, if the ipad can't even duplicate the basic functions of the MPC, how can it possibly blow it out of the water?
Old 27th March 2015
  #148
mp3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
if i remember correctly, this whole thing came up because someone wanted a portable all-in-one 'groovebox' solution, no? for that use, something like an MPC pales in comparison to what you can do with an iPad and a few apps.
Well that depends entirely on the criteria used to make that determination. On the basis of features and flexibility and capability and raw processing power, etc., yeah, no comparison. But not everyone is judging on those criteria...
Old 27th March 2015
  #149
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jbuonacc's Avatar
well, for many uses, it does "blow the MPC out of the water". it depends on what you're looking to do. for someone looking to do a number of different things that you can do easily on the iPad (synthesis, granular, etc), the MPC is near useless.
Old 27th March 2015
  #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post

like this is a selling point compared to everything else i can do with an iPad? i don't do this anyways, and it's hardly necessary for it to work as you describe in most any situation other than finger drumming. actually, for the most part it's a useless option and i'm surprised you brought it up.
You're boggling my mind here. This is one of the most essential and important functions of a sampler. If you've never used it, you owe it to yourself to learn about it pronto. Even the most basic ipad app would probably have this capability (but of course you need a velocity sensitive controller attached).

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
honestly, most any use of samples on the iPad would be just as static, but at least you have the option of things like Samplr/Borderlands/etc. try doing anything remotely like that on an MPC. not even worth a "lol".
The MPC wasn't built for that purpose nor was it meant to do that. What it was meant to do is this (among other things):

1) Realtime polyphonic multitimbral sequencing of up to 32 external modules.
2) Fingerdrumming on 16 level velocity sensitive pads.
3) Sampling and sample processing, waveform editing, etc.
4) FX
5) 64 tracks of either audio (JJOS) or MIDI data.

Let's put it this way. Does the Motif blow a grand piano out of the water? The Motif can sound like a piano and also do much much more, but what the piano does it does better than the Motif ever will.

Hint: Your ipad is the Motif and the MPC is the grand piano.
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