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Do I Need Air "The Riser" When I Have NI Rise & Hit?
Old 10th March 2015
  #1
Do I Need Air "The Riser" When I Have NI Rise & Hit?

Just looking for confirmation (or not). I get the feeling Riser is only good for the purple gui (joking).

I'm new at EDM so forgive me if this sounds like a really dumb question.
Old 10th March 2015
  #2
Gear Addict
 

So I looked at your post history. You own Komplete 9 Ultimate, yes? Which includes FM8, Reaktor, ABSynth, Monark, et al? And you feel the need to purchase a dedicated plugin to make "risers" with, since none of those will cut it. Including the dedicated riser plugin you already bought.

Hell man, go for it. That's definitely what's missing from your productions.
Old 10th March 2015 | Show parent
  #3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Rancher View Post
So I looked at your post history. You own Komplete 9 Ultimate, yes? Which includes FM8, Reaktor, ABSynth, Monark, et al? And you feel the need to purchase a dedicated plugin to make "risers" with, since none of those will cut it. Including the dedicated riser plugin you already bought.

Hell man, go for it. That's definitely what's missing from your productions.
Hi, thanks so much for your patient reply to a newbie, what a guy!
Old 13th March 2015 | Show parent
  #4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Rancher View Post
So I looked at your post history. You own Komplete 9 Ultimate, yes? Which includes FM8, Reaktor, ABSynth, Monark, et al? And you feel the need to purchase a dedicated plugin to make "risers" with, since none of those will cut it. Including the dedicated riser plugin you already bought.

Hell man, go for it. That's definitely what's missing from your productions.

And to think, I almost listened to your dumb ass. The Riser has several features that make it stand apart from any of the synths above. Perhaps if you weren't a troll you would have actually answered the topic after trying the plugin.

Grow up, son.
Old 13th March 2015 | Show parent
  #5
Lives for gear
 
CarLofgren's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parsifal666 View Post
And to think, I almost listened to your dumb ass. The Riser has several features that make it stand apart from any of the synths above. Perhaps if you weren't a troll you would have actually answered the topic after trying the plugin.

Grow up, son.
What Cat Rancher was saying was that with that enormous package of synths and effects, you don't need any special plugin for that.

It's like the difference between Burger King and having a fridge full of all ingredients you would ever need to make the perfect burger, for your own personal taste.

/C
Old 13th March 2015 | Show parent
  #6
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarLofgren View Post
What Cat Rancher was saying was that with that enormous package of synths and effects, you don't need any special plugin for that.

It's like the difference between Burger King and having a fridge full of all ingredients you would ever need to make the perfect burger, for your own personal taste.

/C
I got the point, I just disagree. When you are more concerned with finding something right away and moving on with the composition, Riser fits the bill perfectly. Sometimes perfect isn't as important as "fits in great with minimum effort". When other parts take precedence, why waste your time?

I would guess you'd already know that, no offense intended.

And Gilligan could have been more patient, he just comes across as an unkind, impatient loser. I'm so glad I didn't listen to him.

The Riser sounds great and can be very inspiring to me. Thus, it's good. At least in my opinion.
Old 13th March 2015
  #7
Lives for gear
 

For the longest time, I thought risers were just part of a skateboard.
Old 13th March 2015 | Show parent
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alekto View Post
For the longest time, I thought risers were just part of a skateboard.

I put them in my shoes.
Old 13th March 2015 | Show parent
  #9
Lives for gear
 
CarLofgren's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parsifal666 View Post
I got the point, I just disagree. When you are more concerned with finding something right away and moving on with the composition, Riser fits the bill perfectly. Sometimes perfect isn't as important as "fits in great with minimum effort". When other parts take precedence, why waste your time?

I would guess you'd already know that, no offense intended.

And Gilligan could have been more patient, he just comes across as an unkind loser.

The Riser sounds great and can be very inspiring to me. Thus, it's good. At least in my opinion.
The words internet and patience do no longer fit in the same sentence. You write something on a blog/forum that you didn't think through - and you're toast.

Listen, here's my advice. Stuff like The Riser are cool and all. Hell, I've even got a bunch of them on my hard drives. Sometimes they are useful if you need to get a job done five minutes ago and quality (as in craft) matters little.

I know not everybody is making their own sounds, but for a person to learn how to make a riser effect would take you less than 30 minutes watching videos in Youtube. That's it. It's so simple you can cry.

Simplest riser in the world (takes 10 seconds)
One oscillator, just noise.
Set the attack of the amp to a high value. Decay and sustain to zero.
Done.

The cool thing about making your own risers is that it so easy to make something highly personal, which again brings me back to my silly Burger King analogy. I don't have anything against Burger King. But making your own burgers not only taste much better - they also make you develop in your own art. Using a product like The Riser - however useful - does never.

Just my personal point of view. As I said - not everybody is into making sounds. But if I would start teaching someone making sounds - I would start with risers. Because they are so insanely simple - and making them cool / complex is like standing in the kitchen asking yourself - do I need bacon on my burger? Hell yeah! With mayo too!

/C
Old 13th March 2015 | Show parent
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarLofgren View Post
The words internet and patience do no longer fit in the same sentence. You write something on a blog/forum that you didn't think through - and you're toast.

Listen, here's my advice. Stuff like The Riser are cool and all. Hell, I've even got a bunch of them on my hard drives. Sometimes they are useful if you need to get a job done five minutes ago and quality (as in craft) matters little.

I know not everybody is making their own sounds, but for a person to learn how to make a riser effect would take you less than 30 minutes watching videos in Youtube. That's it. It's so simple you can cry.

Simplest riser in the world (takes 10 seconds)
One oscillator, just noise.
Set the attack of the amp to a high value. Decay and sustain to zero.
Done.

The cool thing about making your own risers is that it so easy to make something highly personal, which again brings me back to my silly Burger King analogy. I don't have anything against Burger King. But making your own burgers not only taste much better - they also make you develop in your own art. Using a product like The Riser - however useful - does never.

Just my personal point of view. As I said - not everybody is into making sounds. But if I would start teaching someone making sounds - I would start with risers. Because they are so insanely simple - and making them cool / complex is like standing in the kitchen asking yourself - do I need bacon on my burger? Hell yeah! With mayo too!

/C
This is a really good post, with some good points. I stand by what I wrote earlier, and can't really see much more being said on this plug in.

I might be the one whom made a mistake here, as I was too anxious to ask the opinions of others when I learned quickly that I love the ease of use and great sound of The Riser, and made up my mind to grab it despite the puerile reply of my little buddy.

So, I'm to blame. Next time I'll just make up my own mind, that's what it's there for. The person whom replied first was reported for being an impatient little kid and I stand by that as well. If you don't have anything helpful or respectful to say, go hang out with Mr. Howell and laugh at the other islanders, at least until the Captain has a new, essentially menial, chore for you.

I'm out, nothing more to talk about really. If the Riser inspires you, get it. Period.
Old 13th March 2015
  #11
Gear Guru
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
IMHO, no, you don't need The Riser if you have Rise&Hit.

I'd first learn the tools you have at your disposal, if I were you.
Old 13th March 2015 | Show parent
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
IMHO, no, you don't need The Riser if you have Rise&Hit.

I'd first learn the tools you have at your disposal, if I were you.

Actually I owe you a thank you, as I'm going to check up more on Rise and Hit. I just received it about a month ago and probably haven't gotten into it as much as I should have. Feeling a bit foolish.

I think I'm getting more what Carl meant, too. If I can come up with superior sounds from Rise and Hit, with not that much more effort, than Rise isn't something exactly mandatory in my toolbox.


Maybe I was just taken with the immediate sound. At nearly 80 dollars, all of a sudden purchasing the Riser doesn't seem as much of a no brainer as it was before I made this topic.

Many thanks to all.
Old 13th March 2015
  #13
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EvilDragon's Avatar
Definitely check out the videos if you don't want to read the manual:



Old 13th March 2015 | Show parent
  #14
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CarLofgren's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parsifal666 View Post
I just received it about a month ago and probably haven't gotten into it as much as I should have. Feeling a bit foolish.
Well, don't feel too guilty about it. While you might be eyeing The Riser - most of us are drooling over vintage gear and odd stuff that would probably bring us a bit "better" sound straight out of the box, cost โ‚ฌ1000 euros and after a month it will just be sitting there collecting dust.

I have everything I need to do anything I want.

Still I'm looking to buy UAD, a new Elektron or maybe a Scope DSP-platform. So don't feel too guilty about maybe spending 80 bucks on something you don't need

I had this discussion once with a guy over at KvR and he kindly put me straight when I was moaning about me buying all this cool gear that I'm just ending up having. He said something like - "yeah, sure. But I've gone past feeling guilty about it. I love sound. I love new toys.".

This is what Gearslutz is. We wage passionate wars on the last percentages of sound

/C
Old 13th March 2015 | Show parent
  #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarLofgren View Post
Well, don't feel too guilty about it. While you might be eyeing The Riser - most of us are drooling over vintage gear and odd stuff that would probably bring us a bit "better" sound straight out of the box, cost โ‚ฌ1000 euros and after a month it will just be sitting there collecting dust.

I have everything I need to do anything I want.

Still I'm looking to buy UAD, a new Elektron or maybe a Scope DSP-platform. So don't feel too guilty about maybe spending 80 bucks on something you don't need

I had this discussion once with a guy over at KvR and he kindly put me straight when I was moaning about me buying all this cool gear that I'm just ending up having. He said something like - "yeah, sure. But I've gone past feeling guilty about it. I love sound. I love new toys.".

This is what Gearslutz is. We wage passionate wars on the last percentages of sound

/C
Wow, great videos and replies! I'm very grateful, this is the kind of help I was looking for. Unfortunately, it makes the original reply-er look even more lame.

This really is a great place for knowledge
Old 13th March 2015
  #16
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barryfell's Avatar
I'd say Rise & Hit and The Riser are different enough to warrant checking out both and seeing what works for you.

Rise & Hit is a bit more orchestral/cinematic style, where as The Riser is very much focused on electronic music. I suspect the The Riser is more what you are looking for.

The Riser has a couple of very useful features such as reverse, which flips your envelopes around to make fallers rather than risers which i've not seen on any synth. Also, it's random button can give you new riser/faller/swell/FX based starting points very easily, and much more useful that the randomise control of many synths since it's tailored to a certain type of sound. I also really like how you can change the length of the riser/faller/FX in bars by playing up and down octaves. (i.e. Octave 1 - 4 bar length, octave 2 - 3 bars etc etc)

Last edited by barryfell; 15th March 2015 at 08:13 AM..
Old 13th March 2015 | Show parent
  #17
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GeorgeHayduke's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarLofgren View Post
..

It's like the difference between Burger King and having a fridge full of all ingredients you would ever need to make the perfect burger, for your own personal taste.

/C
Haha, nice analogy, and I couldn't agree more, a 'riser'-plugin is just .. so not necessary.

OP, even if you don't want to hear it, drop the 'premade' stuff and learn to create your own! That's the only way you can hope to sound at least marginally unique in EDM.
Old 13th March 2015
  #18
To me, making FX is one of the really fun parts of electronic music production. Messing around with noise, comb filters, delays, reverse reverb......coming up with something that sounds interesting.

Whether its a riser, impact hit, or little bubbly sounds that are barely audible....its like putting candles on the birthday cake you made from scratch.

I can guarantee you have all of the tools neccessary between your DAW, stock plugs, and any soft synth.

If you're not into sound design, that's fine....just buy a sample pack of risers or whatever. There is no shortage of those.
Old 13th March 2015
  #19
Yow, this is awesome! This is exactly what I wanted for replies...I'm really grateful. It gives me a lot to think about before considering buying. I still really really like the sound of the Riser (not that Rise and Hit is anything BUT terrific sounding), and it's just sooo easy. But the reccomendations given here are well worth my investigating; obviously 79 bucks is 79 bucks....
Old 13th March 2015
  #20
You know, I'm actually starting to feel even more foolish. I was messing about with my newly acquired Xfer Nerve and what did I discover....
Old 13th March 2015
  #21
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mike vee's Avatar
lmao man, the gearslutz attitude "if you don't roll your own sweeps/rises from synths with white noise you are a pussy"

Personally, I use UVI sweep machine. Makes it super easy and sounds great every time.
Old 13th March 2015 | Show parent
  #22
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike vee View Post
lmao man, the gearslutz attitude "if you don't roll your own sweeps/rises from synths with white noise you are a pussy"

Personally, I use UVI sweep machine. Makes it super easy and sounds great every time.


Well, I completely sympathize with learning the tools as much as possible. I have to admit that Sweep Machine looks KILLER!
Old 13th March 2015 | Show parent
  #23
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mike vee's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parsifal666 View Post


Well, I completely sympathize with learning the tools as much as possible. I have to admit that Sweep Machine looks KILLER!
And 30 bucks!! (although at the time I got it, UVI was not offering it separately so i had to pay like 150 for some bull**** EDM package)

It's not about learning the tools, i mean, if it makes sweeps easy then why fight it??? Can you not learn your synths well and still use a sweep plugin? Can those 2 things not exist simultaniously in one world?? You can open a beer bottle with your hands you were born with if you try hard enough, but you prefer a bottle opener, yes?
Old 13th March 2015
  #24
Bio
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Is opening beer bottle a passion or an art ? ;-)

Those things are no necessarily about being quick.

And if you never tried to make those by yourself, you will never learn.
Old 13th March 2015
  #25
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login's Avatar
i think it's worth if you already know how to make risers and you want specific things it can do easier or that other tolls dont have.

If The rise is deep enough maybe if you program it you can come with good stuff on your own.

If it fits you it's all ok, but don't buy before knowing which alternatives you already have.
Old 13th March 2015
  #26
Gear Addict
 

Risers? I just use a slide whistle. It's fully analog, and it can be used for downshifters, too.
Old 13th March 2015 | Show parent
  #27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi PHi View Post
Risers? I just use a slide whistle. It's fully analog, and it can be used for downshifters, too.
I thought I was being a creative sound designer by recording a dog whistle, but it was no good so I just used it for a slide on my guitar while my terrier humped me.
Old 14th March 2015 | Show parent
  #28
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barryfell's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike vee View Post
lmao man, the gearslutz attitude "if you don't roll your own sweeps/rises from synths with white noise you are a pussy"

Personally, I use UVI sweep machine. Makes it super easy and sounds great every time.
Yeah I disagree with the idea that everything has to be done from absolute scratch.

We now have the tools to speed up workflow and get us where we want quicker, and indeed they can sometimes lead to even more interesting results over a time consuming completely from scratch method.
Old 9th August 2015
  #29
Here for the gear
 

Do not use NI (no offense). The Riser is now $40. onsale. it seems not so bad a tool in the bag. The 300 presets allow one to see the Settings and Curves change for ranges of results .... not a bad training tool.

Mixing Risers/Swells/... is very new to me. Wish The Riser had sound samples to offer more variation. Shame there's no way to apply The Riser results to other samples...
Old 21st December 2015
  #30
For me, in addition to white noise/other noise, I like to hear one of the actual synths sounds used in the track incorporated into the riser. "Riser" plugins can't do that as far as I can see as they use their own sounds. That said I would find it useful to learn what the plugins do to see if I am missing something I might be able to do manually.

Also, I find increasing the resolution, say from 8th notes to 16th/32nd/64ths in the automation track (cc pitch) can get more desirable results but of course there is more than one way to alter the pitch up/down, (within the plugin for example). I think the basic technique is approachable to the point you could probably do it manually after watching a video or two faster than you could learn to do it well within the plugin as even a simple new plugin takes a little time to learn and incorporate into your workflow. It is the difference between playing a triad quantized with all three notes having the same velocity and shifting them a bit and changing the velocity a bit and adding a fourth note here and there to make a compound chord - a few more minutes and the production level goes up significantly and you've added a useful new skill.

Here is some riser cookbook stuff:

1. Launch another instance of a synth you have in your track already if it is not multitimbral.
2. Set the pitchbend to 12 or try 24
3. Enter one single note 4 bars before the change/drop - start with the relative minor or tonic note for example C or A if in the key of C
4. Automate the pitch from down 12 semitones to up 12 semitones (two octaves)
5. Try adding a 5th (G to go witch C or E to go with A) if you are new to music theory
6. Play around with when the note ends, maybe right before the 1, maybe a 1/2 bar or bar after or before
7. Add some white noise, maybe boost the same frequency to match your track or attenuate all the others, maybe sidechain or automate it
8. Maybe automate the hi and or lo pass on the white noise
9. Play around with reverb and/or delay

Might seem like a lot of stuff at first but once you do it you will be able to create whatever you need in minutes and once you have it in one project you can use that as the basis for further projects. You will also probably think of a new technique which the plugins don't do which could make your track(s) stand out. In short, I think one could actually learn to do this faster than getting good with one of the plugins and in the case of Native Instruments, my experience is their tech support is not only arrogant but technically inept so I would stay clear of their riser plugins if you think you may need tech support.
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