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Behringer DeepMind 12 Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 1st August 2016
  #2671
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tux99's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by IncarnateX View Post
A potential reduced version of this synth in the 600€ range or below. Preferably with a smaller keyboard but could be a Desktop module too. To lower cost, start by reducing/removing the effects section, then the voice count (I could do with 6 or even 4 voices), then the mod matrix and further advanced features. I would be happy for a more or less non-menued version resembling a Juno frontpanel with your extras and with the sound we have heard so far in the teasers.
You might be happy with that but I wouldn't. I would only be interested in a desktop/rack-module that keeps all features except for the keybed and the pitch+mod wheels.

I want a desktop/rack-module to save space, not to save money!


Even for a cheaper cut-down version I think cutting the mod matrix would go too far (unless it's Volca range cheap).
Old 1st August 2016
  #2672
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Uli Behringer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazmatic View Post
Tons of posts by various veteran members on these boards went unanswered, and here, a newcomer singing songs of praise and Uli magically shows up to answer his questions and responded very quickly. Very fishy.....
Hi Hazmatic,

not really and I apologize if this is the impression. I simply don't have enough time to keep up with reading all posts for now.

I wish I could spend all my time here, but unfortunately I also have a day job and one of them is to make sure we get the synth in production.

Uli
Old 1st August 2016
  #2673
Gear Guru
 
zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli Behringer View Post
Hi IncarnateX,

thank you for your comment.

The project initially started based on the Juno 106, however today the DeepMind12 is a very different synthesizer.
I believe we reinvented the term "feature creep" as the capabilities and features grew literally from week to week - not the most efficient way to design a product, but this is surely a reflection of the incredible passion that went into the synth:-)

While we made sure to retain the original Juno sound signature by deploying the same filter design, the instrument is capable of creating very different and also unheard of sounds.

To be perfectly clear, the DeepMind12 does not have motor faders, multi-timbre or multi-mode filter capabilities aside from being able to select 4 or 2 pole filter modes. That was simply not possible for the price we are targeting.

We will soon be revealing the detailed specs and also have magazines and artists showcase the synth in great detail. Around 20 units are currently out with renowned sound designers to create inspiring patches.

Uli
Odd 12 voice but not at least two layers. No? All for unison?
Old 1st August 2016
  #2674
Gear Addict
 
IncarnateX's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazmatic View Post
Tons of posts by various veteran members on these boards went unanswered, and here, a newcomer singing songs of praise and Uli magically shows up to answer his questions and responded very quickly. Very fishy.....
Boo-hoo! I hardly got my questions answered. No word on the dcos. Instead a member is teaching me about what is pretty obvious, namely that dco 2 is an independent osc as if I have no clue about what the info I have compiled is about. Don't worry. l'll iron out any further misunderstandings and head back to KVR. You probably won't give me any reasons to stay anyway. Have a nice life.
Old 1st August 2016
  #2675
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tux99's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by IncarnateX View Post
Don't worry. l'll iron out any further misunderstandings and head back to KVR. You probably won't give me any reasons to stay anyway. Have a nice life.
Don't let a troll ruin your stay, better to ignore him. Gearslutz can sometimes be a bit rough but there are also plenty of insightful and valuable posts made all the time so it's worth sticking around.
Old 1st August 2016
  #2676
Gear Addict
 
IncarnateX's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tux99 View Post
You might be happy with that but I wouldn't. I would only be interested in a desktop/rack-module that keeps all features except for the keybed and the pitch+mod wheels.

I want a desktop/rack-module to save space, not to save money!


Even for a cheaper cut-down version I think cutting the mod matrix would go too far (unless it's Volca range cheap).
Cool. But shouldn't you direct the wish to Uli, instead of commenting mine? I am afraid I won't change mine just because yours are different, and since I am not the Santa here, I will even be less able to do something about yours.
Old 1st August 2016
  #2677
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WozNYC's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli Behringer View Post

I wish I could spend all my time here
No. You don't. You really, really don't.
Old 1st August 2016
  #2678
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
Odd 12 voice but not at least two layers. No? All for unison?
Yeah. That was a bit surprising. I figured 2x 6 voice layers would be a really sweet use for this.

Pete
Old 1st August 2016
  #2679
T11
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli Behringer View Post
Hi IncarnateX,

thank you for your comment.

The project initially started based on the Juno 106, however today the DeepMind12 is a very different synthesizer.
I believe we reinvented the term "feature creep" as the capabilities and features grew literally from week to week - not the most efficient way to design a product, but this is surely a reflection of the incredible passion that went into the synth:-)

While we made sure to retain the original Juno sound signature by deploying the same filter design, the instrument is capable of creating very different and also unheard of sounds.

To be perfectly clear, the DeepMind12 does not have motor faders, multi-timbre or multi-mode filter capabilities aside from being able to select 4 or 2 pole filter modes. That was simply not possible for the price we are targeting.

We will soon be revealing the detailed specs and also have magazines and artists showcase the synth in great detail. Around 20 units are currently out with renowned sound designers to create inspiring patches.

Uli


Would be awesome if Eric Persing was one of them

If you're considering creating a sampler try to get Peter Vogel on board.
Old 1st August 2016
  #2680
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Mr Knoch's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by gjvti View Post
I rather think that even most agile manufacturers (Behringer, Korg, Yamaha etc) would not be able to produce synth model variations with every keybed option built in while keeping price low/affordable. There are so many options for control 37 keys (for bass and mobile), 49 (for mobile/compact) 61 synth action, 61 semi weighted, 73, 88 semi weighted and fully weighted piano action, Seaboard, Continuum, LinnStrument, Soundplane etc. Some are logical for particular functionality some are simply matter of preference. Thus to me it seems pretty logical that for serious instrument desktop/rack should be standard version and upon manufacturers vision it could be accompanied with another model with built in most appropriate midi control option for particular synth/functionality. Just my thoughts...
I did not ask for it to be "affordable", whatever the definition of that might be for each of us. I bought the P~6 and plan on an OB-6 purchase so I am willing to pay for what I want, and I know I can't be alone in this regard since I rarely have an original idea . Many of us would like to see a powerhouse 5 octave synth again, like my Andromeda, but with modern processor speed. 16 voices; ribbon controller; let's see what they cost and talk about it. Even if Behringer charges as much as the Prophet or Oberheim costs, it would be a bargain to get that all in one keyboard (maybe with VCOs?) for the DSI price tag. A note about Modal. I really thought the 008 was going to be a possible replacement for the A6 and I was prepared to buy it. But when I found out about the hard panning and the necessity to buy an extra card for a work-around my gas for it died.

Last edited by Mr Knoch; 1st August 2016 at 02:59 AM..
Old 1st August 2016
  #2681
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ArtFluids's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertflyer View Post
Reminds me of this. I always like this design.







I really wish Korg had a new Workstation in this price range and of that caliber.

A Krome or Kross is a huge step down and a Kronos is overkill in comparison.

I wanted an M3 so badly when they were around and they seemed to disappear before I was able to afford it. I think it was much cooler in form factor than the Kronos, Kross or Krome.

Oh well.
Old 1st August 2016
  #2682
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Mr Knoch's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by SonicBern View Post
First they say, give us a rack unit...

Then they say, make it hybrib with DSP added...

Then they say, reduce the physical controls, we can do it all on the editor...

Then they say, remove some analog voices to get the price down, it's a hybrib after all...

Then they say, model some of those expensive analog bits with DSP...

Then they say, model it all in DSP...

Then they say, give us a software version...

Then they say, look, tell you what, just do it as a VST...

I quite like the idea of you focusing on making great synths, that sound great and have a real interface...

It dose not matter how big a synth is if it sounds great and is easy to use...

The DeepMind 12, went in the right direction, please don't end up as another VST synth maker...
Bump. Good enough for a re-read.
Old 1st August 2016
  #2683
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Mr Knoch's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc_the_Darc View Post
+Many on NO software-dependancy! It's just a setup to eventually fail - usually far sooner than reasonable.

Imho most people have completely lost sight of what makes hardware awesome...
Bump. Totally agree with this. Wisdom and hardware is awesome.
Old 1st August 2016
  #2684
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Mr Knoch's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by wishy-washy View Post
No, DCO-2 is obviously a full featured oscillator as the independent "pitch mod" and "pitch" labelled controls imply ; the "sync" option wouldn't make much sense if it wasn't btw.
The "tone mod" sounds like an original waveshaper design, it could be clearly heard in the first teaser.
I'm hoping you're right. Are you going from a picture; quote; or previous post by someone? Share please. Thanks.
Old 1st August 2016
  #2685
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Mr Knoch's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by IncarnateX View Post
That is what the extended thing is about, I guess. Obviously it is not just an ordinary Juno sub. So far it doesn't seem to have an independent waveform selector, so therefore the phaselocked square guess. Hope Uli wil make us wiser. Btw from the mod matrix it seems to be referred to as a sub, while dco 1 is called main.

Edit: Oops. Saw that he already answered. No further details though.
I missed where he answered. Can you point me where it is? Thanks.
Old 1st August 2016
  #2686
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Klonfocius's Avatar
 

Not being able to do split and layer is really
Old 1st August 2016
  #2687
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SonicBern's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Knoch View Post
Bump. Good enough for a re-read.
Cheers

Old 1st August 2016
  #2688
Gear Addict
 
IncarnateX's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Knoch View Post
I missed where he answered. Can you point me where it is? Thanks.
Right above the post you just posted and quoted by some below that too. I referred to his answer to my initial post.
Old 1st August 2016
  #2689
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjoerngiesler View Post
But what do you make of DCO2? The mod matrix refers to "DCO main" and "DCO sub", so are we looking at something that is really meant to be a sub oscillator?
What I make of it may or may not be true, but my guess is that it's just a terminology issue that will get cleaned up in the menus of the production model.

What may have begun as a Juno-ish sub osc morphed into a full fledged DCO 2 with the inclusion of independent pitch control and variable waveshaping - the "feature creep" that Uli alluded to.

At least that's what I'm hoping.
Old 1st August 2016
  #2690
Gear Addict
 
IncarnateX's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Knoch View Post
I'm hoping you're right. Are you going from a picture; quote; or previous post by someone? Share please. Thanks.
Well in that respect I certainly agree with him though no one has stated it directly. His arguments about the pitch mod and sync feature are certainly valid. Besides the orginal Juno has one osc with a layerable saw and pwm square + a sub square. Calling the saw and main square for dco 1 and the sub for dco 2 would be as technical misleading as can be if they were not independent. Don't think the Midas team have left things to circumstances here.
Old 1st August 2016
  #2691
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asynchro_nous's Avatar
 

Effects parameters as mod destinations, please

Thanx
Old 1st August 2016
  #2692
Deleted User
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It has just occurred to me that I have NEVER bought a polyphonic analog synth new since
I starting buying synths in 1977 at the age of 14.
This synths looks like a great opportunity for me to do so.
I have bought digital synths brand new, so this might make a great
replacement for my Studiologic Sledge II.
Old 1st August 2016
  #2693
Where this thread is headed

Old 1st August 2016
  #2694
Gear Addict
 
Uli Behringer's Avatar
 

I like to present you with some of our desktop/rack-mount designs for the DeepMind12 which our designers we have come up with. The unit is designed to accommodate for both desktop and rack-mount usage - hence rack ears would be included.

Just to be clear, we have not yet decided to progress with this design, as your opinion is important to us.

Thanks for your feedback.

Uli
Attached Thumbnails
Behringer DeepMind 12-deepmind12d_p0cf7_top.jpg   Behringer DeepMind 12-deepmind12d_p0cf7_left.jpg   Behringer DeepMind 12-deepmind12d_p0cf7_left-ears.jpg   Behringer DeepMind 12-deepmind12d_p0cf7_rear.jpg  

Last edited by Uli Behringer; 1st August 2016 at 05:20 AM..
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Old 1st August 2016
  #2695
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaphod Betamax View Post
this might make a great
replacement for my Studiologic Sledge II.
Even though it has 12 voices, incredibly the Behringer won't do layers and splits - adhering to the spirit of the Juno 106... to a fault.

Buy one if you wish, but I'd suggest keeping the Sledge around as well.
Old 1st August 2016
  #2696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli Behringer View Post
I like to present you with some of our desktop/rack-mount designs for the DeepMind12 our designers we have come up with. The unit is designed to accommodate for desktop and rack-mount usage.

Just to be clear, we have not yet decided to progress with this design and hence your opinion is important to us.

Thanks for your feedback.

Uli
Nice!

Surprised to see a fan on that. Hot transformer?

Pete
Old 1st August 2016
  #2697
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli Behringer View Post
I like to present you with some of our desktop/rack-mount designs for the DeepMind12 our designers we have come up with. The unit is designed to accommodate for desktop and rack-mount usage.

Just to be clear, we have not yet decided to progress with this design and hence your opinion is important to us.

Thanks for your feedback.

Uli
Perfect to me!!! Please make this as soon as possible!
Old 1st August 2016
  #2698
Gear Maniac
 

Desktop over rackmount gets my vote, but I'll probably forego both and pick up the keyboard version... depending on that crazy little thing called price
Old 1st August 2016
  #2699
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli Behringer View Post
I like to present you with some of our desktop/rack-mount designs for the DeepMind12 our designers we have come up with. The unit is designed to accommodate for desktop and rack-mount usage.

Just to be clear, we have not yet decided to progress with this design and hence your opinion is important to us.

Thanks for your feedback.

Uli
I think it looks great Uli. And that was fast getting a rendering together . One question. Any chance you could squeeze in another set of adsr sliders so we would have independent enceople controls for amp and filter.? Thanks, and i cant wait to get my hands on the dm12. Looks like your about to have a smash hit on your hands
Old 1st August 2016
  #2700
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CasimirsBlake's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli Behringer View Post
I like to present you with some of our desktop/rack-mount designs for the DeepMind12 our designers we have come up with. The unit is designed to accommodate for both desktop and rack-mount usage - hence rack ears would be included.

Just to be clear, we have not yet decided to progress with this design, as your opinion is important to us.

Thanks for your feedback.

Uli
Perfect. Pretty much what I expected. More ideal for hybrid ITB/OTB setups. Possibly more desirable than the keyboard version but I use a Supernova II as a master keyboard and synth so...

Oh, has it been confirmed the DM12 will have no audio input? If so, this is a little disappointing tbh, would be nice to have access to the internal FX for processing other sounds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by t-bone View Post
I think it looks great Uli. And that was fast getting a rendering together . One question. Any chance you could squeeze in another set of adsr sliders so we would have independent enceople controls for amp and filter.? Thanks, and i cant wait to get my hands on the dm12. Looks like your about to have a smash hit on your hands
Two sets of faders is one of the things I love about the KS Rack. I really don't see how another set could be added to the design Uli has posted, though, without cutting out other controls, using smaller faders, or making the desktop unit much larger.
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