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Behringer DeepMind 12
Old 2 days ago
  #17881
Here for the gear
 

Sorry to be the messenger, but well, I found the 6k & 12K tones. They turn into other high end IMD products when they get close to the filter cutoff. But it (the 6k fundamental) is so very far below the output tone, maybe 80db or more, that I find it hard to believe anyone can really hear it. I had to turn down the output so that the other hash doesn't cover it up. If you look at the attached, you can see it in the grid. With a typical patch output of -20db with the volume at 11:00, it is completely covered up. I can't hear it at all but then again, I've had 50yrs of loud music pounding on my ears.

I don't know where the 6khz is coming from, possibly a switching power supply, maybe a DSP or cpu clock? I would have to go looking for it with the scope and spectrum analyzer. Some day when my warranty runs out I'll go looking because something like this can usually be fixed pretty easily with some bypass caps or shielding. Unless it's an artifact from a DSP then it will be a challenge.

This wouldn't prevent me from purchasing. I think this is one of those defects that only the people that will never purchase will complain about. Like the guy in the one thread that was talking abut the power adapter, where he checked the voltage and used another? Yea, and then someone pointed out there was no power adapter on the DM12... I can see why the 6Khz bothered him.


Jerry

edit: I would like to see you find it in the 2nd shot. The third is at a higher volume.
Attached Thumbnails
Behringer DeepMind 12-capt01.jpg   Behringer DeepMind 12-capt02.jpg   Behringer DeepMind 12-capt00.jpg  
Old 1 day ago
  #17882
Here for the gear
 

This is the output from one of the line level ports on the back using balanced and shielded cable (on the left) and unbalanced and shielded cable. The defects stand out more but it maintains about 85db signal to noise ratio or better. The low-end is mostly power line noise with some other stuff in there. The high end is mostly IMD related to the filter most likely intermixing with the 6Khz third harmonic.

Again, I doubt this would cause and issue anywhere. When I tried to record it using standard PC software and audio interfaces (audacity) I didn't see it.
Attached Thumbnails
Behringer DeepMind 12-capt05.jpg   Behringer DeepMind 12-capt06.jpg  
Old 1 day ago
  #17883
Here for the gear
 

One last post. This is using shielded cables into a better interface that is good to 192Khz sample rate. I've found it to be a pretty decent interface and use it for most of my other analysis work. I'm trying to think if I have something better around here and I've tried some battery operated recording devices yesterday and they didn't really show much else.

You'll notice in this plot with the audio turned all the way down on the DM12, I still get the 6Khz signal all the way up to 84Khz, the 14th harmonic. It's not volume sensitive as when I turn the synth up, the other broad band noise masks it. So I'm stumped. it's in the low level circuitry, before the output drivers I believe. You have to play around with the volume at low levels to hear it at all.

It doesn't impact my use of the unit at all. I think it sounds great at three times the price.

Jerry
Attached Thumbnails
Behringer DeepMind 12-capt09.jpg  
Old 1 day ago
  #17884
Gear Head
I get a similar plot at the same sort of amplitude with my own DM12D. When powering up the unit, there are no peaks at all for around 2 to 3 seconds. The peaks appear about half a second before the Behringer logo on the display disappears. This could be when some subsystem switches on, or it could be a mute circuit disengaging. There's no other change in the character of the noise to give a clue as to which it is.

I agree though, this sound is puny in comparison to the regular sound output of the synth. In fact, if you switch off all of the oscillators and hit a key, the leakage from the oscillators are about as loud as this 6/12/18 etc. kHz tone.
Old 1 day ago
  #17885
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by marinedalek View Post
I get a similar plot at the same sort of amplitude with my own DM12D. When powering up the unit, there are no peaks at all for around 2 to 3 seconds. The peaks appear about half a second before the Behringer logo on the display disappears. This could be when some subsystem switches on, or it could be a mute circuit disengaging. There's no other change in the character of the noise to give a clue as to which it is.

I agree though, this sound is puny in comparison to the regular sound output of the synth. In fact, if you switch off all of the oscillators and hit a key, the leakage from the oscillators are about as loud as this 6/12/18 etc. kHz tone.
I'm tempted to lift the top and unplug the display while it boots up.
Old 1 day ago
  #17886
Lives for gear
 
XAXAU's Avatar
 

I like my dm6, it’s well built for the price tag, the control and ease of programming is the best ever hands down imo

The biggest minus is the filter, it’s just weird and not in a good way. Any resonance just scoops out all the juicy stuff and makes the sound fizzy

Any tips besides not using the filter? :P
Old 1 day ago
  #17887
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Diametro's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by XAXAU View Post
I like my dm6, it’s well built for the price tag, the control and ease of programming is the best ever hands down imo

The biggest minus is the filter, it’s just weird and not in a good way. Any resonance just scoops out all the juicy stuff and makes the sound fizzy

Any tips besides not using the filter? :P
That was always my biggest difficulty trying to like DM12 ... As soon as I adjusted the filter settings, strange and unpleasant things going on in my ears ... Like the sonic equivalent of a cold sore ...
Old 1 day ago
  #17888
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diametro View Post
That was always my biggest difficulty trying to like DM12 ... As soon as I adjusted the filter settings, strange and unpleasant things going on in my ears ... Like the sonic equivalent of a cold sore ...
Try using the Ballsy VCA mode instead of Transparent. The resonance is pretty extreme at higher settings. You rarely have to go above 6 even for highly resonant sounds. Try to run the filter calibration to get a more even filter sound between the voices (less dissonant beating when playing multiple voices or using unison). Also keep in mind that velocity is routed to filter env amount by default in the init patch which can lead to unexpected results when playing chords with high resonance.
Old 1 day ago
  #17889
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by XAXAU View Post
I like my dm6, it’s well built for the price tag, the control and ease of programming is the best ever hands down imo

The biggest minus is the filter, it’s just weird and not in a good way. Any resonance just scoops out all the juicy stuff and makes the sound fizzy

Any tips besides not using the filter? :P
the filter is the synth's soul, its character and possibly the most important part of it and if it sucks, then it ruins your connection with that piece of gear, so you look for an external solution
like me and waldorf blofeld's lfo, i really hate it so i bought myself a nice analog pedal
or process it externally through another synth's filter
there are a lot of solutions if you really like the deepmind and would love to keep it, although most are quite expensive
Old 1 day ago
  #17890
I never have the res much over halfway. Ive found the sounds I like within that scope...I also almost always have the VCA mode set to ballsy as mentioned above, I think thats the synths "natural" sound and the transparency was added more to appease those that said it was clipping on some presets (though my memory is fading lol).

The filter res is a weak spot but for me its no deal breaker. Not to say it shouldnt be for others.
Old 1 day ago
  #17891
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seamonkey's Avatar
Would anyone mind doing an audio comparison between the Transparent and Ballsy mode? I'd love to hear the difference.
Old 1 day ago
  #17892
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Diametro's Avatar
 

It may seem like I'm a DM12 naysayer, but I keep following this thread because I just have this weird feeling I will end up with one of these someday ...
Old 4 hours ago
  #17893
Here for the gear
 

cncjerry
Sorry to be the messenger, but well, I found the 6k & 12K tones. They turn into other high end IMD products when they get close to the filter cutoff.

This wouldn't prevent me from purchasing. I think this is one of those defects that only the people that will never purchase will complain about. Like the guy in the one thread that was talking abut the power adapter, where he checked the voltage and used another? Yea, and then someone pointed out there was no power adapter on the DM12... I can see why the 6Khz bothered him.


I appreciate the time you took into responding to this post! As for me the problem in the regular outputs did not bother me, on mine it was faint. I can hear it on some posts of music on youtube though (especially at the very end of videos when the song fades into "silence") but again I did not find it to be a problem there. Again where it got me was from the headphone jack. Though the unit is a bit heavy, the Deepmind 6 is the type of instrument you can place on your lap and mess with for hours. I use the headphone jack for this usage. Originally on my first 6 unit it was impossible for me to do this...that noise felt like a small icepick in my ears. Call me more sensitive to that frequency but it destroyed the use. I'm really glad the replacement unit I was sent somehow had that problem attenuated to the point I am enjoying the use of the machine. Again...problem was in the headphone jack with me. I completely agree it would not prevent most people from purchasing a unit like this for it's cost and what it offers. The problem does, however, need to be address or at least acknowledged by Behringer.


marinedalek
I get a similar plot at the same sort of amplitude with my own DM12D. When powering up the unit, there are no peaks at all for around 2 to 3 seconds. The peaks appear about half a second before the Behringer logo on the display disappears. This could be when some subsystem switches on, or it could be a mute circuit disengaging. There's no other change in the character of the noise to give a clue as to which it is.

I agree though, this sound is puny in comparison to the regular sound output of the synth. In fact, if you switch off all of the oscillators and hit a key, the leakage from the oscillators are about as loud as this 6/12/18 etc. kHz tone.


Yes the headphone problem for me does not happen until after 2 or 3 secs after the unit is powered up as well. Somebody hinted it might be the display but the display is on for those first 2 or 3 secs so I will rule that out. Yes the sound is not as prevalent in the audio outputs and that is a good thing otherwise the unit would be unusable.

AndyHornBlower
Do you still get it if you set the effects to Bypass?

I did still get the high pitch when the effects were set to bypass... thanks for that suggestion. I like knowing I covered all by bases.

StarfishMusic
just in case anyone here doesn't know, there is tons of ground noise and digital hash that comes in from the usb jack when connected to a com.

Interesting bit of information! Unfortunately mine still made the noise/hum when no usb was connected. Thanks for the suggestion to use the "usb electrical isolator" on units!

daithibailey
I've been experiencing the same issue as yourself and have yet to find a solution. The noise is much more noticeable out of the headphone jacks, but only because the signal appears to be hotter - it is still there using TRS cables from the main outs into a Focusrite Scarlett 18i8. Still there with the fan off, no other cables (USD/MIDI) connected and after multiple re-calibrations. I've also tried it in different locations with no success. Very annoying to say the least, and this is my second unit! Will check on the date code later and confirm (I think it's 1704). I haven't contacted Behringer directly yet, as I'd prefer to resolve the issue without having to send it back (I bought online) and incur expenses for something that should just work out of the box. I see some people confirm that they don't have any issue (but only CNCJerry has provided spectral analysis images to support this), some people do confirm they have issues but that they don't really notice it/it doesn't bother them/it can't be heard once the synth is playing(it can be, by the way - although this is more dependent on which patch is being used).

Glad to know you also tried all of these fixes. It is annoying I agree, especially if you want to experiment with the unit without everything else in the studio on. This means using the headphone jack and that's where the main problem is. Being I got a replacement unit that did not have the same problem as the first one I bought, I would say contact support. Your unit should work properly. I just wish Behringer would contact me with some type of dialog...it seems they are avoiding this issue and that is not a good thing. There's no way they don't know about this.

Scoopicman
As for the threads you linked to, did you read through them? I've seen people talk about balanced cables, recalibration, and using a different power source to get rid of the high pitched sound. Also, have you tried changing the fan speed?

Yes I read through the threads. I actually had answered all of your questions you asked in my post.


So I'm curious to know what happens with the refurbished Deepmind 12 I just bought from Musictribe on eBay. Again they said they would not replace it because they didn't have another unit in stock so they had me send it in to be repaired. I'm uncomfortable knowing I am sending a unit in for repair less than 3 days after delivery but I got a good deal and am willing to wait. However, I'm frustrated because after 3 days of trying to find out what the repair process will be and how long it might take I'm getting no responses to my emails from Musictribe on eBay. I figure since I literally just purchased the unit it should be expedited. I'm getting no reply and this is bothering me a lot. I now own 7 pieces of audio gear from Behringer. Regardless...these are amazing units for what they offer. The Deepmind series is a very special line of synthesizers.

Last edited by GhostHunterX; 4 hours ago at 05:46 PM.. Reason: spelling errors
Old 3 hours ago
  #17894
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seamonkey's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostHunterX View Post
I appreciate the time you took into responding to this post!

Looks like you went through a lot of work putting together all these quotes, highlighting them and then posting your comment.
I find it's a lot easier to use the + icon to the bottom right and continue to hit that + again and again for each quote you wish to include in your comments, and when you reach the last quote use the quote icon to the right.
This will put them all in order for you and still allow you to post your comments below each quote.
Just thought I'd throw that out there in case you didn't know.

good luck btw...

Like this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pablo668 View Post
Dude, that is really cool.
YEP

Quote:
Originally Posted by VennD68 View Post
Looking forward to it and thanks for the reply.
YEP

Quote:
Originally Posted by seamonkey View Post
Has anyone emailed Behringer support to find out what the status of colored leds is?
This needs to be settled, so people quit speculating or wondering whether their Odyssey will have them or not.
If not, then Behringer needs to remove all photos of the colored lights from all marketing and online stores.
Oh seamonkey, that's a great idea.
Old 2 hours ago
  #17895
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by seamonkey View Post
Looks like you went through a lot of work putting together all these quotes, highlighting them and then posting your comment.
I find it's a lot easier to use the + icon to the bottom right and continue to hit that + again and again for each quote you wish to include in your comments, and when you reach the last quote use the quote icon to the right.
This will put them all in order for you and still allow you to post your comments below each quote.
Just thought I'd throw that out there in case you didn't know.

good luck btw...

Like this:


YEP


YEP



Oh seamonkey, that's a great idea.
Very cool, thanks for the tip! I'm a newly joined member yet long time lurker!
Old 2 hours ago
  #17896
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
I can hear it on some posts of music on youtube though (especially at the very end of videos when the song fades into "silence") but again I did not find it to be a problem there.
The reason you would hear it as they fade to silence is that it is more noticeable if someone is using the volume control to lower the output. I don't know what would happen if you were to modulate the VCA to lower it. I know if you lower the volume control, the internal last amp stage is noisier than the 6k and 12k tones and when it is past about 11:00 it covers it pretty completely. The 18k 3rd is higher but very few people will hear that, if any.
Old 2 hours ago
  #17897
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cncjerry View Post
The reason you would hear it as they fade to silence is that it is more noticeable if someone is using the volume control to lower the output. I don't know what would happen if you were to modulate the VCA to lower it. I know if you lower the volume control, the internal last amp stage is noisier than the 6k and 12k tones and when it is past about 11:00 it covers it pretty completely. The 18k 3rd is higher but very few people will hear that, if any.
I agree few people would hear it at 18k. It's the 6k in the headphones that's the problem. For me it's very unpleasant.

Edit: Just got some feedback from the engineers...they say they can't recreate the issue.

Last edited by GhostHunterX; 1 hour ago at 07:55 PM.. Reason: addendum
Old 1 hour ago
  #17898
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seamonkey's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostHunterX View Post
Very cool, thanks for the tip! I'm a newly joined member yet long time lurker!
You're welcome, it too me awhile to figure it out too.
Welcome to the board.

About that lurking thing, thought I was seeing shadow figures now and then darting around the forum.."can you tell us your name?" "did you use to live here?"
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