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Behringer DeepMind 12 Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 26th June 2018
  #16501
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magikroom's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
I mean “sharp” as in “off pitch in a higher direction.” The opposite of “flat.” The resonance is kind of harsh and screaming, but I’m talking about cutoff, not Q.
Do you mean when you have Keyboard Tracking on Full, Resonance on Full and then changing the Pitch with the Cut Off slider? If so, that's perfectly normal, as the Filter Cut off is sweeping through the Frequencies and the resonance is boosting that frequency, as to to self oscillate...creating a Sine Wave.

I use this for Sub Bass, tune it to Oscillator 1 and then turn OSC 1 off. Or I use it for Organ overtones...

Maybe I'm not understanding what you're saying though?
Old 26th June 2018
  #16502
Gear Guru
 
fiddlestickz's Avatar


the main repeating arp/seq you hear is the Deepmind, it's my fav patch on this machine, I basically just leave it at this patch permanetly, it's really musical and lush I love it so much.
Old 26th June 2018
  #16503
Gyu
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddlestickz View Post
the main repeating arp/seq you hear is the Deepmind, it's my fav patch on this machine, I basically just leave it at this patch permanetly, it's really musical and lush I love it so much.
Yes, mate, lush patch!
Cool tune
Old 26th June 2018
  #16504
Gear Guru
 
zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diametro View Post
Pretty sure that's what I've been hearing with the filter since my first encounter with DM12 (and hear in various demos) ...

I'd like a high-voice analog poly in a desktop format at a nice price (DM12 desktop) but the "filter thing" really makes me pause as to whether I could work around it ... That's why I was hoping to check out DM12 one more time to see if I could come to terms with that filter behavior; none of my other synths have such an unpleasantly nasty side to the filter ...

Which isn't to say I don't hear very nice things coming out of DM12 demos ... But it really concerns me that every time I sweep the filter my ears are going to be stepping in toxic doo doo ...

I'm really wondering if a DM12 mkii or some other re-worked version is on the horizon ...
You won’t encounter it if you never push the resonance past about 70%, which is still a fair amount.
Old 26th June 2018
  #16505
Gear Guru
 
zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by magikroom View Post
Do you mean when you have Keyboard Tracking on Full, Resonance on Full and then changing the Pitch with the Cut Off slider? If so, that's perfectly normal, as the Filter Cut off is sweeping through the Frequencies and the resonance is boosting that frequency, as to to self oscillate...creating a Sine Wave.

I use this for Sub Bass, tune it to Oscillator 1 and then turn OSC 1 off. Or I use it for Organ overtones...

Maybe I'm not understanding what you're saying though?
Right, what I’m saying is that you can tune the resonance, but if you start to decrease the amount of resonance, you’ll hear the pitch go off.
Old 26th June 2018
  #16506
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magikroom's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
Right, what I’m saying is that you can tune the resonance, but if you start to decrease the amount of resonance, you’ll hear the pitch go off.
Yep...Most Synths, typically 24db Filters do this, even some 12db Filters do it also.like the Prologue. The DeepMind Tracking is good for about 2 Octaves, when Filter Tracking is on 100%, giving you access pretty much to a rudimentary 3rd Oscillator, but I used it for Sub Bass and Overtones. It can be used also with some Distortion FX to create Feedback tones...is very useful and perfectly normal.
Old 27th June 2018
  #16507
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who owns another analog poly who likes the Deepmind's PWM more... or at all.
I dunno… if set up to do classic PWM, my DM12 is at least the equal of my Jupiter 6 - maybe a little better actually. The issue is setting it up: Two variable pulse oscillators modulated by a mono free-running LFO requires going into multiple edit pages, and is not the DM12's native state. But I'm good with that too, because the DM12 is capable of taking it much further.


… and I've got that sound covered already
Old 27th June 2018
  #16508
Gear Guru
 
zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kramdown View Post
I dunno… if set up to do classic PWM, my DM12 is at least the equal of my Jupiter 6 - maybe a little better actually. The issue is setting it up: Two variable pulse oscillators modulated by a mono free-running LFO requires going into multiple edit pages, and is not the DM12's native state. But I'm good with that too, because the DM12 is capable of taking it much further.


… and I've got that sound covered already
PWM to LFO is hard wired in the OSC page, no?
Old 27th June 2018
  #16509
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
PWM to LFO is hard wired in the OSC page, no?

You can set it that way, but you must go into edit. The all important assignment switch for the PWM slider on a Juno 106 and Jupiter 8 is absent from the front panel of a DM12. Instead, it exists as an edit that you set on the display. And... (very important) it's default position is manual - not where you want it for this sound.

So ok... with the DM12 right in front of me, the edit pages you need to go into to set up classic PWM after program initialize defaults from left to right:

LFO 1 Edit: Set phase to mono

OSC 1 Edit: Set PWM Source to LFO 1

OSC 2 will be turned off from the front panel because it's incapable of generating a variable width pulse wave.

Unison Detune Edit: Set Polyphony to Unison 2 - giving you two variable width pulse waves per voice but reducing polyphony to 6.

This configures the oscillators so you can begin to program the patch, which then requires all the usual stuff. And I dunno - once again right in front of me I think it sounds pretty rich. Maybe we have different expectations....

Last edited by Kramdown; 27th June 2018 at 08:32 PM.. Reason: hopefully greater clarity
Old 27th June 2018
  #16510
Gear Maniac
 
apessino's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddlestickz View Post


the main repeating arp/seq you hear is the Deepmind, it's my fav patch on this machine, I basically just leave it at this patch permanetly, it's really musical and lush I love it so much.
Great track!
Old 27th June 2018
  #16511
Gear Head
 
Holden Sandman's Avatar
I have a question for Deepmind 12 owners, would you go for the keyboard or desktop version?

Also, can anyone comment on the Mac editor for the machine?
Old 27th June 2018
  #16512
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Heinakroon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Sandman View Post
I have a question for Deepmind 12 owners, would you go for the keyboard or desktop version?

Also, can anyone comment on the Mac editor for the machine?
Tricky one.

The keyboard is a decent enough keybed and it's convenient when creating new sounds to have it at hand. The module on the other hand has a better layout for the controls, in my opinion. It's often more expensive though, weirdly.

So, if you've got the space, go for the keyboard version. If you got the money, go for the desktop. Perhaps?
Old 27th June 2018
  #16513
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Arglebargle's Avatar
I'd agree. Not being interested in keyboards much, the choice was easy for me. Really prefer just one or two keyboards in my setup. And the DM12r does seem to have a better layout.
Old 27th June 2018
  #16514
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kurzweil's Avatar
Anyone know of any demos out there that make use of the voice number as a mod source to create audible differences between the timbre of each voice on the DM synths?

I'm curious as to what extent this can be used to emulate the effect of multi-timbral voiced instruments, or the 'divergence' parameter on the Peak.
Old 27th June 2018
  #16515
Gear Maniac
 

FIRST STUPID QUESTION -- if I update the firmware, will it delete/alter any of the patches I made?

SECOND STUPID QUESTION -- is there a blank or duplicate bank of patches anywhere? I'm hesitant to keep deleting stock presets because most of them are pretty cool.

THIRD STUPID QUESTION -- I downloaded the firmware updater and tried to select the Deepmind as the MIDI input and output device in the tool, but it doesn't show up. I have the synth connected via USB to my laptop but essentially it's not "seeing" it. What am I doing wrong? This is an ~2012 Lenovo running Windows 7.


This synthesizer rules, I f****** love it.

Some things I've been doing to make the patches more palatable:
- Immediately go to VCA edit, turn velocity sens and pan spread down to 0
- Go to FX, turn them down to zero (unless the effects sound truly awesome)
- Check the Mod screen, see if the panning is being modulated by anything else
- Adjust the VCA level, if need be, to an equal volume of the other patches
These things usually bring the patches to a point where you can really hear and appreciate their core sound and work with them a little better. Many of them are a bit overwhelming without paring them down a bit, the programmers went a little nuts with the panning and effects. Also I did find the volume levels were all over the place and it's good to equalize them. If you make your patches with single-oscillator sounds you'll quickly find the stock patches are way too loud in comparison.

Another strategy is to make the FX chain an "insert" that goes 1-2-3-4, turn the mix levels of all the effects down, and turning the level up over 100 on #4 will actually boost the signal (up to 50% if you go to 150) for quiet patches. For really quiet single-oscillator sounds, even +6db in gain from the VCA isn't enough to bring it up. There is also tricks with volume boost you can do in the FX with the Enhancer, for example, and if it you set it right it won't color the sound.

Other fun things:
- Check out Oscillator Sink on Youtube, he has amazing tips, especially regarding modulating the Unison Voice number. He explains how you can use this to create such things as sub-octaves with multiple sawtooth waves, which isn't possible using the second oscillator.
- Set the Arp subdivision to 1/48, crank up the speed all the way and set octaves to 3 or 4, instant 8-bit Juno-style super fast arp sounds.
- The MIDI out for the arp is incredible to use with other synths, like Behringer's Model D! But you need to turn MIDI Arp Out on in the Arp sub-menu
- I found for playing single-osc chords, getting to sound more organic like an old OB-8 (for example) is as simple as setting the oscillator drift amount and rate to something moderately low, like 15. Chords then don't sound so absurdly perfect then, but not so out of tune as to sound bad.
- Using Unipolar LFO in the modulation matrix is very good for some things, like creating classic PWM sounds.
- You can't get too much FM out of this (the LFO does go into audio range, but you can't cross-mod the OSC's), but I think if you explore the Tone Mod in Osc 2 there are a lot of FM-style sounds to be found there.

All in all this synth is amazing and unbelievable for the price. I got mine $700 used.
Old 27th June 2018
  #16516
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Heinakroon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kurzweil View Post
Anyone know of any demos out there that make use of the voice number as a mod source to create audible differences between the timbre of each voice on the DM synths?

I'm curious as to what extent this can be used to emulate the effect of multi-timbral voiced instruments, or the 'divergence' parameter on the Peak.
Got no demos, but have been playing around with the univoice mod source a lot, to get different kind of sounds for each unison voice. In unison-2, this works great for panning, tuning, cross-fading and stuff, but when using more, like unison-3, or unison-4, it spreads the values between the voices - which might not work as expected when tuning in semitones: suddenly that octave divide between 2 voices becomes a 6-semitone split for 3 voices, a 4-semitone for 4 and so on.

But it's certainly possible to 'fake' some multitimbral sounds this way, like a pad with a pluck sound on top (or left/right).
Old 27th June 2018
  #16517
Lives for gear
 
Heinakroon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by smcumber View Post
FIRST STUPID QUESTION -- if I update the firmware, will it delete/alter any of the patches I made?

SECOND STUPID QUESTION -- is there a blank or duplicate bank of patches anywhere? I'm hesitant to keep deleting stock presets because most of them are pretty cool.

THIRD STUPID QUESTION -- I downloaded the firmware updater and tried to select the Deepmind as the MIDI input and output device in the tool, but it doesn't show up. I have the synth connected via USB to my laptop but essentially it's not "seeing" it. What am I doing wrong? This is an ~2012 Lenovo running Windows 7.
Those questions aren't stupid at all.

1. So far it hasn't deleted any of my presets, but I'd back them up all the same just to be sure.

2. There are some duplicate patches, especially in bank A. I'm attaching a list of the factory sounds with the duplicates marked.

3. Not sure, but when in doubt restart both the laptop and the synth and start afresh. Otherwise perhaps check if something else is plugged in via USB that could conflict with it somehow?
Attached Files
File Type: pdf patchlist_DM12.pdf (187.2 KB, 22 views)
Old 27th June 2018
  #16518
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kurzweil's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heinakroon View Post
Got no demos, but have been playing around with the univoice mod source a lot, to get different kind of sounds for each unison voice. In unison-2, this works great for panning, tuning, cross-fading and stuff, but when using more, like unison-3, or unison-4, it spreads the values between the voices - which might not work as expected when tuning in semitones: suddenly that octave divide between 2 voices becomes a 6-semitone split for 3 voices, a 4-semitone for 4 and so on.

But it's certainly possible to 'fake' some multitimbral sounds this way, like a pad with a pluck sound on top (or left/right).
Thanks - that's interesting.
Can you use the voice number as a mod source when not in unison mode, for example to set different PW, filter, LFO speed (etc) offsets for each voice?
I'm just curious how that might sound to make big chords become more interesting.

I'd try it myself, but I haven't bought a DM12 yet!
Still considering either DM12, Peak, or UBXa (if a release date looks likely within 12 months)..
Old 27th June 2018
  #16519
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Heinakroon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kurzweil View Post
Thanks - that's interesting.
Can you use the voice number as a mod source when not in unison mode, for example to set different PW, filter, LFO speed (etc) offsets for each voice?
I'm just curious how that might sound to make big chords become more interesting.

I'd try it myself, but I haven't bought a DM12 yet!
Still considering either DM12, Peak, or UBXa (if a release date looks likely within 12 months)..
Yes, voice number works as a source in the same way as univoice does. Then each other note would sound different (or multiple notes with a gradient of difference between them). Should make for some interesting poly sounds!

I'd confirm it by trying it out, but my 6-year-old on is using my DeepMind right now... :P
Old 27th June 2018
  #16520
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Heinakroon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kurzweil View Post
Thanks - that's interesting.
Can you use the voice number as a mod source when not in unison mode, for example to set different PW, filter, LFO speed (etc) offsets for each voice?
I'm just curious how that might sound to make big chords become more interesting.

I'd try it myself, but I haven't bought a DM12 yet!
Still considering either DM12, Peak, or UBXa (if a release date looks likely within 12 months)..
Confirming: yes, it's certainly possible to use the voice number source in that manner. It's best used for subtle changes though, as it can become quite unpredictable otherwise - there's just no easy way to decide what voice number will be used for the next note, or chord of notes.
Old 28th June 2018
  #16521
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NEXUS-6's Avatar
 

So I take it the Android app is a no go?


Minus 1 point for false advertising....
Old 28th June 2018
  #16522
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the_soulcatcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by NEXUS-6 View Post
So I take it the Android app is a no go?


Minus 1 point for false advertising....
don't expect any official response
Old 28th June 2018
  #16523
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
More versatile, yes. Sadly though, if you compare the sound of its pulse width modulation, with pretty much any other analog, or even the software Juno 106 plugin, it sounds oddly flat and lifeless, don't you think? Drove me crazy that you had to really lean on the effects to get it to sound alive in a simple PWM sound.
It has a certain signature sound of its own. I wouldn’t say it is lifeless, but it does not sound like a vintage analog synth with VCOs. I think it sounds better than a VST. I can’t quite get the fuzzy, phasing analog strings out of it that i would like, but it has a certain exotic sparkle sometimes. If you sent it back in time, i could see Tangerine Dream using it on their early to mid-80s soundtrack work. it would fit right in on Legend or Risky Business.

I am not sure why the PWM sounds like that.

The DeepMind does get glassy quickly and the filters are finicky, just like the original Juno 106. I remember not liking them. The resonance seems to go from not enough to shrill very quickly.

Have you gotten any third party sound sets? The Oscillator Sync ones are free and there are some great sounds in there. The AnalogAudio1 and Geosynth collections sound fantastic on YouTube, although I haven’t gotten them yet. I think they show how good this synth can sound.

I also suggest organizing the presets if you haven’t yet. There are some great sounds in there, but a lot of useless sounds and about 150 duplicates. When i sorted out the good ones and put all the like sounds together, I narrowed it down to 4 banks leaving me lots of room to write and buy new ones.
Old 28th June 2018
  #16524
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrighteous Synth View Post
It has a certain signature sound of its own. I wouldn’t say it is lifeless, but it does not sound like a vintage analog synth with VCOs. I think it sounds better than a VST. I can’t quite get the fuzzy, phasing analog strings out of it that i would like, but it has a certain exotic sparkle sometimes. If you sent it back in time, i could see Tangerine Dream using it on their early to mid-80s soundtrack work. it would fit right in on Legend or Risky Business.

I am not sure why the PWM sounds like that.

Wrighteous Synth, try what I suggested above regarding the PWM, use a unipolar LFO instead of regular bipolar LFO for the modulation source. With bipolar LFO you end up easily going "out of the range" of the Pulse Width quickly and the modulation isn't fluid. I think it's just set up so unipolar LFO works better. I quickly got awesome vintage sounds out of it that way.

Also there's a video on Youtube of a guy meticulously setting up a classic string machine sound (like a Solina) on the DM12 and it sounds fabulous.
Old 28th June 2018
  #16525
Gear Maniac
 

I think you can get many varied awesome sounds out of it, vintage and new, it just takes a little work because most of the presets are geared in one aural direction and the synth engine is very complex.

Also, Heinakroon thank you so much for the info and advice.
Old 28th June 2018
  #16526
Gear Guru
 
zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrighteous Synth View Post
It has a certain signature sound of its own. I wouldn’t say it is lifeless, but it does not sound like a vintage analog synth with VCOs. I think it sounds better than a VST. I can’t quite get the fuzzy, phasing analog strings out of it that i would like, but it has a certain exotic sparkle sometimes. If you sent it back in time, i could see Tangerine Dream using it on their early to mid-80s soundtrack work. it would fit right in on Legend or Risky Business.

I am not sure why the PWM sounds like that.

The DeepMind does get glassy quickly and the filters are finicky, just like the original Juno 106. I remember not liking them. The resonance seems to go from not enough to shrill very quickly.

Have you gotten any third party sound sets? The Oscillator Sync ones are free and there are some great sounds in there. The AnalogAudio1 and Geosynth collections sound fantastic on YouTube, although I haven’t gotten them yet. I think they show how good this synth can sound.

I also suggest organizing the presets if you haven’t yet. There are some great sounds in there, but a lot of useless sounds and about 150 duplicates. When i sorted out the good ones and put all the like sounds together, I narrowed it down to 4 banks leaving me lots of room to write and buy new ones.
I don’t remember the 106 behaving like that... but it’s been 30 years or so.

I ditched the Deepmind after I moved to Bitwig and found I could do what I was doing with effects using any plugin on any hardware or software instrument. I actually compared it to Roland’s Juno 106 software and I liked the software’s sound a lot more.
Old 28th June 2018
  #16527
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomized View Post
It’s probably subjective but none of those sound nearly as good to me as the Deepmind version I posted earlier (The last one was pretty good though).

It’s easy to play the arp with any synth of course, but getting the other sounds in the ST theme music right is a lot more difficult. In my opinion, Deepmind nailed it quite well.

Btw, for anyone who enjoyed ST, I suggest watching the german series Dark from Netflix. Music in Dark is not as good as ST but I liked the plot more in that show and there are some similarities (and I’m not even german ).
IMO the Deepmind the definitely sounds better to my ears than the System-1 and the JU06, but the Prophet one is the closest, it has the dangerous edge to it that the others don't have.
Old 28th June 2018
  #16528
Here for the gear
 

I'm on the fence about buying a Deep Mind 12 and need some help. I've done research regarding hardware synths and the ability to stay in sync with Ableton. I know there is a hardware latency adjust you can make in Ableton and you can offset an arp in the Deep Mind to account for latency but how much of a pain is this to deal with? I would like to hear from Deep Mind 12 owners how they feel the DM 12 does regarding sync with computer based DAW's such as Ableton? Especially in playback of complicated arps. Is the sync issues a reason not to buy or to buy? Thanks for your help in this buying decision.
Old 28th June 2018
  #16529
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magikroom's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by gps9 View Post
I'm on the fence about buying a Deep Mind 12 and need some help. I've done research regarding hardware synths and the ability to stay in sync with Ableton. I know there is a hardware latency adjust you can make in Ableton and you can offset an arp in the Deep Mind to account for latency but how much of a pain is this to deal with? I would like to hear from Deep Mind 12 owners how they feel the DM 12 does regarding sync with computer based DAW's such as Ableton? Especially in playback of complicated arps. Is the sync issues a reason not to buy or to buy? Thanks for your help in this buying decision.
Midi Clock and Synth Arp's have always been a Pain in the backside, so if I use an Arp, I send the notes over Midi and record them in the DAW and then turn off the Arp and play it back...If using MIDI Clock though, it tends to need a Bar to get going and in Sync and then if it's Cycling, then that's where it could go off.

I don't use Ableton, so can't really speak about specific issues, but I do have a fair bit of Hardware and it's always troublesome with MIDI Clock.
Old 29th June 2018
  #16530
Gear Head
 

I've picked up one of these to try out before I buy. I'm having a good time with this one. For fixing my poly needs I think its down to the Deepmind or push the budget up to the REV2.
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