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Behringer DeepMind 12
Old 4th August 2016
  #3631
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt pinchin View Post
What's happening in 2 weeks 2 days?
"Modular Meet" in Leeds where you will be able to play Deep Mind 12.
Old 4th August 2016
  #3632
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matt pinchin's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutantt View Post
"Modular Meet" in Leeds where you will be able to play Deep Mind 12.
Oooooh sounds good.
Old 4th August 2016
  #3633
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analogsynth's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
Param drift and dco drift may be the best part of this synth. Very clever idea, not entirely new, but it may make it the most versatile sounding analog poly synth in existence? And it may make the vco-dco discussion virtually obsolete.
I think it's a first for a real analog synth (DCO or not), loads of VAs has this, but alas they are just VAs, Behringer could do worse than making a big thing out of this in the marketing.
Old 4th August 2016
  #3634
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I hope Param drift doesn't truly effect "ALL" settings. You wouldn't want something like osc2 volume if you want a single osc sound? Noise volume? Glide?

I think subtle Param drift of the right parameters would sound amazing. But if it's truly "ALL", then it's essentially a morph patch with a continuously changing completely random patch. Which might be fun a few times, until you realize it's not exactly giving you that vintage retro sound.

A drifting of envelopes, filter amount, q, without certain other more key to the sound you want params would be great ESPECIALLY IF EACH VOICE DRIFTS INDEPENDENTLY. You wouldn't want all the amp envelopes to randomly drift to the same slightly off envelope, but slightly different per voice. But even having this option is showing that they are moving somewhere that others haven't so far!
Old 4th August 2016
  #3635
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asynchro_nous's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polymooger View Post
Meanwhile, back in DM12 land, Martin Swan has answered a few more questions over on FB.

On oscillator panning:



On the Pam drift parameter:



And on whether his unit has presets loaded or not:



Which makes his a pre-production unit it seems. Extrapolate that to a release date however you wish

BTW if you haven't already check out his band Vile Electrodes on Youtube - lots of synthy goodness to be had there.
Parameter drift sounds really great -- let's hope there's a wide range to adjust between none and "bonkers."
Old 4th August 2016
  #3636
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oliverdowie's Avatar
 

Parameter drift sounds delicious
Old 4th August 2016
  #3637
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analogsynth's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertflyer View Post
A drifting of envelopes, filter amount, q, without certain other more key to the sound you want params would be great ESPECIALLY IF EACH VOICE DRIFTS INDEPENDENTLY. You wouldn't want all the amp envelopes to randomly drift to the same slightly off envelope, but slightly different per voice. But even having this option is showing that they are moving somewhere that others haven't so far!
I would expect it to be implemented sensibly, those parameters you mentioned plus osc microtune drift, but if we don't like it we can complain to Uli here and they'll give us a software update with "better" drift

I bought an OB-8 a while back and it hadn't been calibrated for years. When I cycled through each voice they definitely sounded different, like attack times, filter cut-off, tuning was all different. I sat down with the service manual and read up on the calibration procedure, but then I started playing and it sounded so incredibly good and big, like the drift of a CS-80 or orchestra like, so I never did the calibration, if the DM-12 can emulate that trick they're on to a winner.
Old 4th August 2016
  #3638
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ranzee's Avatar
If it can drift like the rear-end of a powerful V8 - then I'm in!
Old 4th August 2016
  #3639
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autoy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsynth View Post
I would expect it to be implemented sensibly, those parameters you mentioned plus osc microtune drift, but if we don't like it we can complain to Uli here and they'll give us a software update with "better" drift

I bought an OB-8 a while back and it hadn't been calibrated for years. When I cycled through each voice they definitely sounded different, like attack times, filter cut-off, tuning was all different. I sat down with the service manual and read up on the calibration procedure, but then I started playing and it sounded so incredibly good and big, like the drift of a CS-80 or orchestra like, so I never did the calibration, if the DM-12 can emulate that trick they're on to a winner.
Same for me in my Polysix. Actually it's downright impossible to tune VCOs exactly because they're running free-phase with a +-5cent drift. Besides, the maintenance manual simply states you can't get perfect tuning on more than 4 octaves. I did the filter resonance calibration because to my ears it sounded better but forget filter tracking, that quest is almost impossible. More so without a proper oscilloscope.
Old 4th August 2016
  #3640
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cane creek's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Hodgson View Post
Have you seen the inside of a CS80? Or an Elka Synthex?

Considering what we know about the architecture, I doubt it's the highest component count ever (certainly not on a per voice basis, multiplying things by 12 rather than 6 or 8 ramps up the component count quickly), and it's certainly not the most complex.

But I like streamlined designs, so that's not a criticism, just an observation.
CS80 & ELKA syntheX are indeed large beasts packed with thru-hole components, however when the Midas engineer stated on the last video that this synth contains the most components (obviously SMD) on a commercial synth I believe him.
Old 4th August 2016
  #3641
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Polymooger's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by cane creek View Post
CS80 & ELKA syntheX are indeed large beasts packed with thru-hole components, however when the Midas engineer stated on the last video that this synth contains the most components (obviously SMD) on a commercial synth I believe him.
Again, the claim is for current production synths.
Old 4th August 2016
  #3642
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Quote:
Originally Posted by autoy View Post
I don't think they worry either. They have a good, innovative and competitive product if priced right. Roland just have been living off their name for about two decades with no clue about why their products succeeded in the 80s. They succeeded because at the time they were the underdog doing what Behringer is doing today: appealing with cool products to young producers with not much money to spend. Korg understands this dynamic too.

This said, I don't think Behringer wants to spill the beans on price just yet, not at least the product is about to hit the streets. It'd be giving competitors some time to pivot on pricing otherwise.
Way I see it, they've had that time to make or at least plan their move. While by exactly how much is unknown that Behringer will offer competitive prices is a given (unless they screw up, but they're smart). I agree with you in general about holding information as long as you can but, in this case, the giant woke up two years ago and made his intentions clear. If anyone's waiting for the last minute to react then they're doing it wrong. Obviously, some may have guessed wrong and would appreciate a few more weeks to try and save that.

I guess what I want to get at is that Behringer's calling the shots. They know where/when they'll drop their price, and yes they'll do so in the most competitive/last minute way as they can. But that's normal, that's what you'd expect them to do. So what you said earlier was kind of stating the obvious.
Old 4th August 2016
  #3643
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autoy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToyBox View Post
They know where/when they'll drop their price, and yes they'll do so in the most competitive/last minute way as they can. But that's normal, that's what you'd expect them to do. So what you said earlier was kind of stating the obvious.
I've lost the count of vaporware/preemptive/PR marketing campaigns we've been through. Hell, look at what Arturia's doing with the Matrixbrute, losing all possible surprise advantages, months in advance to release. It's probably a good product bound to fail because of poor planning and marketing. So yeah, obvious but not so obvious.
Old 4th August 2016
  #3644
Did Uli back off this thread? I haven't seen any posts from him in the last 10 pages....

10 pages = what? A day with this thread? Maybe I'm just impatient.
Old 4th August 2016
  #3645
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Polymooger's Avatar
More insight from Martin Swan over on FB:

'A few of you asked questions about the DeepMind12 and its features etc, and I tried to answer as much as I could. The thing is, as I'm not part of the design team, and I don't have access to either the manual or the specifications, I'm limited in what more I can tell you. I also have to be respectful of the NDA I signed and of the fact that I'm lucky enough to have been given a free synth, so don't want to say stuff that might spoil the teaser campaign.

So instead I thought it might help now to have a brief summary of what I've discovered (so this is more about my opinions as a synthhead, rather than specifics - these will come along in time, as will some videos). The emphasis here is that these are my opinions having had it now for just under a week.

1. It's basically been designed as an updated version of Juno 106, so a lot of the architecture is similar in design to that synth. It sounds similar, but it's NOT a clone. It has it's own sound, which lives somewhere between a Juno, a Korg Poly, a DSI poly and a Waldorf.

2. 12 note poly with 2 DCOs per voice, but as you can specify polyphony, you can have 6 note/4oscs, 4 note/6oscs, 3 note/8oscs, 2 note/12oscs, 1note/24oscs (!) This means it can make HUGE pads, and massive detuned basses and leads that are generally only achievable using software, or very expensive hardware. This is one of the BEST things about this synth, and gives it a unique flavour.

3. Build quality is very good. As good as the original Junos. Better than many synths these days, but perhaps not quite as good as synths that cost well over £/€/$2000. It's solid, ergonomically designed and stable, and I haven't found any bugs.

4. Once you play it for a few minutes you forget that there is a Behringer logo on it. It doesn't matter. Anyone that says they wouldn't play it because of that logo is just being dogmatic for the sake of it, and it's their loss.

5. It's incredibly easy to navigate and use, and you never have to make more than 2 button presses to tweak anything, so it's VERY immediate. Much more so than my DSI Pro 2 and my Waldorf XT, which are two of my go-to synths. I can't tell you enough just how well thought out this is in nearly every way I've used it.

6. It's not designed to be as complex as a modular, or as a Prophet12. Its strength is in its playability not its unbelievable array of options. Play it and program it. Don't fret about its lack of triangle wave or resonant HPF. The original Junos didn't have these and are still classics.

7. The effects section is very high quality, and very editable, and you can bypass them. The synth still sounds great without the effects, particularly when warmed up with oscillator detune and the parameter drift controls which make those DCOs sound like VCOs.

8. It's REALLY fun to play and it's very stimulating to use. I've programmed sounds on it I can't get on any of my other synths (and I have a LOT of synths... (https://www.facebook.com/vileelectro...3679556547658/) and I wrote 2 new songs on it in the space of about 4 hours of using it over the weekend. The definition of a good musical instrument is that it helps and inspires you to write songs and create new music, and this does that brilliantly.'

Old 4th August 2016
  #3646
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asynchro_nous's Avatar
 

I love how configurable the polyphony is -- multitimbrality would really kick it into outer space.
Old 4th August 2016
  #3647
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by That Other Guy View Post
I said this a few pages back. The stopwatch screens got to go. This isn't the 90's. An OLED screen is not expensive. Can't be more than 15 bucks on their end. **** charge us an extra $50 for the synth, but put a proper screen on it. I'm tired of cheap ass looking gear.
Like plasma displays the oleds have burn-in problems and they lose their brightness pretty quick so for those two reasons alone I'd never want an oled display for a product that I expect to keep for many years.

I'd really love to get one of these deepmind synths. Hopefully it's within my wallet's reach...
Old 4th August 2016
  #3648
Gear Addict
 
keyz2401's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DomiBabi View Post
Did Uli back off this thread? I haven't seen any posts from him in the last 10 pages....

10 pages = what? A day with this thread? Maybe I'm just impatient.
He doesn't post that frequently. He's joined the DeepMind 12 Facebook Group but hasn't posted there yet. Something tells me he's a pretty busy guy.
Old 4th August 2016
  #3649
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asynchro_nous's Avatar
 

I have to say my first preference would be to get the desktop, but I'd like to see a good track record of managing heat first.
Old 4th August 2016
  #3650
Gear Head
 

Thanks to Polymooger for passing on my updates about this synth on Facebook. I'm not a regular on Gearslutz so I've not really been seeing this thread. I have a DeepMind 12 sitting in front of me right now, so i'm happy to answer questions about what it's like, but I'm more likely to reply on Facebook than here as I'm trying to mix my band's new album right now so trying not to get too distracted! You can find me on FB here https://www.facebook.com/impplus or look at the Synthesizer Freaks forum. Love, light and peace everyone!!
Old 4th August 2016
  #3651
PES
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PES's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polymooger View Post
More insight from Martin Swan over on FB:


[...]


5. It's incredibly easy to navigate and use, and you never have to make more than 2 button presses to tweak anything, so it's VERY immediate. Much more so than my DSI Pro 2 and my Waldorf XT, which are two of my go-to synths. I can't tell you enough just how well thought out this is in nearly every way I've used it.

6. It's not designed to be as complex as a modular, or as a Prophet12. Its strength is in its playability not its unbelievable array of options. Play it and program it. Don't fret about its lack of triangle wave or resonant HPF. The original Junos didn't have these and are still classics.
This is what I want to hear, especially that no menu item is more than two button presses away.

Even on the Mopho Keyboard, which is pretty hands-on, I can't stand the 19 parameters to the right of the display where you have to scroll through them using an encoder, trying to find and land on the one you intend to edit.

If the Behringer is structured so that you can get to anything by pressing a couple of buttons that correspond to on-screen info, then that is very good to hear.
Old 4th August 2016
  #3652
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ImpPlus View Post
Thanks to Polymooger for passing on my updates about this synth on Facebook. I'm not a regular on Gearslutz so I've not really been seeing this thread. I have a DeepMind 12 sitting in front of me right now, so i'm happy to answer questions about what it's like, but I'm more likely to reply on Facebook than here as I'm trying to mix my band's new album right now so trying not to get too distracted! You can find me on FB here https://www.facebook.com/impplus or look at the Synthesizer Freaks forum. Love, light and peace everyone!!
Please explain the mysterious OSC2 "tone mod" slider.
What does it do exactly ?


And welcome to GS.
Old 4th August 2016
  #3653
Quote:
Originally Posted by keyz2401 View Post
He doesn't post that frequently. He's joined the DeepMind 12 Facebook Group but hasn't posted there yet. Something tells me he's a pretty busy guy.
Understood.

Seriously tho, this is the fastest growing thread I've seen in a while on GS. Uli must feel great pride about the overwhelmingly positive vibes this thing is getting.

I love the design of this synth. It reminds me of my childhood in the 1980s. I could see it being used as a prop in Netflix's Stranger Things.
Old 4th August 2016
  #3654
Gear Addict
 
goodweather's Avatar
12 voices but not at least bi-timbral is a pity...

I think it is a pity that the DM12 is not at least bi-timbral when having 12 voices available...
It looks a really fantastic synth and of course we must wait to hear it / test it ourselves in a store but lack of at least bi-timbrality will probably mean no buy for me.
Bi-timbral would allow one pad sound then some light arpeggio with another sound or one sound on keyboard while another one is using the sequencer.

We get multi-timbral functions (arp, seq, keyboard) but only one sound at a time... Pity... Will wait the next synths from Behringer new synth dream team
Old 4th August 2016
  #3655
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Hazmatic's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by asynchro_nous View Post
I love how configurable the polyphony is -- multitimbrality would really kick it into outer space.
It sure would. Instead, the 12 voices will be useful for sounds with looooong releases......
Old 4th August 2016
  #3656
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goodweather View Post
We get multi-timbral functions (arp, seq, keyboard) but only one sound at a time... Pity... Will wait the next synths from Behringer new synth dream team
Multitimbral functions? Since when? Do u understand how complex it would make the seq? How to deal with only four fx?
Old 4th August 2016
  #3657
Deleted ac061cb
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more tidbits
Old 4th August 2016
  #3658
Gear Head
 

From what I just posted on FB...

The DCO2 tone control is a primarily a PW control, as DCO is a 'fixed' square wave, like the Junos, however the Junos don't have PW on DCO2. Although the name of it implies there may be some other functions I've yet to work out.

In practice, the DCO2 tone conttrol adds a whole new sound palate to the basic Juno-esque waveforms, adding some very nice metallic overtones at more extreme settings, and further warmth to pads at lower levels.
Old 4th August 2016
  #3659
Gear Addict
 
goodweather's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by El-Burrito View Post
Multitimbral functions? Since when? Do u understand how complex it would make the seq? How to deal with only four fx?
I meant something "simple"... Sequencer running only one sound while you play another one on the keyboard (or 2 with a split).
Old 4th August 2016
  #3660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polymooger View Post

...........It has it's own sound, which lives somewhere between a Juno, a Korg Poly, a DSI poly and a Waldorf.

This means it can make HUGE pads, and massive detuned basses and leads that are generally only achievable using software, or very expensive hardware. This is one of the BEST things about this synth, and gives it a unique flavour............
Behringer take my money now!
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