The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Synths for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Could the Synthex see a return? Etusivu - Soundion Oy (Finland) Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 3rd May 2015
  #421
Lives for gear
 

I think the new Synthex 2 deserves a page of its own.......
Old 3rd May 2015
  #422
Lives for gear
 
patrickdafunk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enrico Cosimi View Post
Hello to everyone,
my name is Enrico Cosimi, I'm the author of the text on ACM concerning the Synthex 2. I have been in touch, here in Rome/Italy, with Mario from the late Eigthies and, from the mid Nineties, I'm working with Mario on his "version two"; as you can imagine, Mario is a very very very busy kind of genius, who conceived and realized a lot of third party non-musical items (especially for telecommunications and health). I am not allowed to reveal all the data concerning the new Synthex 2 (b.t.w., it will be a digital equipment: would you dare to conceive an analog instrument with 128 LFOs and 64 EGs in the same box?), but - trust me - when it will be done, it will be a GREAT machine.

Here, I have read some incorrect statements, so, I'll try to ad my 2 cents:

a) the original ELKA brand has NEVER acquired rights over the Synthex name; they built under license from Mario Maggi;
b) i was pretty curious (and still) about the new finnish company; I think they would have believed that Generalmusic acquired Elka and Elka acquired Synthex. That's incorrect (see above, point A);
c) when I talked with them, at the Mövenpick meeting in Frankfurt, they had not jet contacted Mario (who is known for not being very fast in email answering);
d) Mario Maggi knew from music press about the "finnish Synthex", he doesn't know nothing about the idea of resurrecting the old analog CEM/based machine;
e) the finnish doesn't know anything about the Mario's Synthex 2 effort
f) Mario Maggi is the legal owner of the "Synthex" name
g) Mario Maggi is the legal owner of the original source code for the vintage machine, and for all the boards inside

frankly, I don't know how this thing will end up.

Last week, I heard, at Mario's lab in Rome, the new HIDEA oscillators and filters and, IMHO, they sounds absolutely great, with a lot of features (now) common and until now, very uncommon, with - at least - three or four new behavior on filter and waveform treatments that are IMHO worthy of patent by Mario.

Maybe, in the next week, Mario Maggi himself will decide to show us more details and terms and schedules and everything on the Synthex 2; for now, I can simply state that when it will be ready, it will be a real blast.

cheers
Thank you for this insight!!

This is the last drop for me. I am NOT supporting the Finnish guys. The original founder and genius WILL get my money.
Old 3rd May 2015
  #423
Lives for gear
 

This is some fantastic information and very much appreciated.

I had heard Mario had /has been working on a Synthex update for some time but had no idea of the legality of the Synthex branding which i have already been quite sceptical about with regards to the Finnish company.

I commented in an earlier post that i found the Finnish project that did not include Maggi nothing more than a bandwagon clone attempt and i now feel justified with that opinion.

This seems like a nail in the coffin for the Finns and personally im not sorry if thats the case.

Im really looking forward to Mario's project so please keep us updated with any news...




Quote:
Originally Posted by Enrico Cosimi View Post
Hello to everyone,
my name is Enrico Cosimi, I'm the author of the text on ACM concerning the Synthex 2. I have been in touch, here in Rome/Italy, with Mario from the late Eigthies and, from the mid Nineties, I'm working with Mario on his "version two"; as you can imagine, Mario is a very very very busy kind of genius, who conceived and realized a lot of third party non-musical items (especially for telecommunications and health). I am not allowed to reveal all the data concerning the new Synthex 2 (b.t.w., it will be a digital equipment: would you dare to conceive an analog instrument with 128 LFOs and 64 EGs in the same box?), but - trust me - when it will be done, it will be a GREAT machine.

Here, I have read some incorrect statements, so, I'll try to ad my 2 cents:

a) the original ELKA brand has NEVER acquired rights over the Synthex name; they built under license from Mario Maggi;
b) i was pretty curious (and still) about the new finnish company; I think they would have believed that Generalmusic acquired Elka and Elka acquired Synthex. That's incorrect (see above, point A);
c) when I talked with them, at the Mövenpick meeting in Frankfurt, they had not jet contacted Mario (who is known for not being very fast in email answering);
d) Mario Maggi knew from music press about the "finnish Synthex", he doesn't know nothing about the idea of resurrecting the old analog CEM/based machine;
e) the finnish doesn't know anything about the Mario's Synthex 2 effort
f) Mario Maggi is the legal owner of the "Synthex" name
g) Mario Maggi is the legal owner of the original source code for the vintage machine, and for all the boards inside

frankly, I don't know how this thing will end up.

Last week, I heard, at Mario's lab in Rome, the new HIDEA oscillators and filters and, IMHO, they sounds absolutely great, with a lot of features (now) common and until now, very uncommon, with - at least - three or four new behavior on filter and waveform treatments that are IMHO worthy of patent by Mario.

Maybe, in the next week, Mario Maggi himself will decide to show us more details and terms and schedules and everything on the Synthex 2; for now, I can simply state that when it will be ready, it will be a real blast.

cheers
Old 3rd May 2015
  #424
Lives for gear
 
Coorec's Avatar
2 different affairs in my book.

If the finnish company brings the Synthex with original parts to retail i will most probably* buy one.

If the Synthex 2 sounds as good as an Synthex 1, i may buy one too.




*most probably because this is such a crazy time and you cant turn around without another treat being released.
Old 3rd May 2015
  #425
Lives for gear
 
genetic92's Avatar
 

finnish company = new behringer!!!


"LetZ BRING ELKA BACK" cuz we CLONE it and NO RESPECT FOR LEGACY and original Creator!!! LOL THEY SUCK BIG TIME!!

"letz make a video with JARRE so all 'Jarre Fans will want one and we make lotsalotsa MONEY$$$$$" lol is that the best you got?? no details? no respect? no honor? no more information how to make it? not even prototype!?!?!?

hope they FAIL!!!

mario maggi, I SUPPORT SYNTHAX 2 100%.
Old 3rd May 2015
  #426
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enrico Cosimi View Post
(b.t.w., it will be a digital equipment: would you dare to conceive an analog instrument with 128 LFOs and 64 EGs in the same box?)
Well yes actually. Assuming that by "an analog instrument" we mean one that's as analog as say a Matrix 12, or a Prophet T8, or a number of others, where the audio path is analogue, but envelopes and modulation are done digitally. With modwen processors 128 LFOs and 64 EGs is trivial.

But, it's his synth and he can implement it how he likes, and I'm the last person to make a judgement on the basis that it's analogue or digital (and not only because I make money from my own VA design).

Quote:
Here, I have read some incorrect statements, so, I'll try to ad my 2 cents:

a) the original ELKA brand has NEVER acquired rights over the Synthex name; they built under license from Mario Maggi;
Hmmm, so it seems the "cease and desist" letters might be in the opposite direction to what i first thought.
Quote:
g) Mario Maggi is the legal owner of the original source code for the vintage machine, and for all the boards inside
Software is subject to copyright, but interestingly circuit designs are, as far as i know not. The idea of copyright on software is based on the idea that you "write" software in much the same way as you write a book, so it's an extension of the same protection laws.

Physical inventions are covered by patent law (presuming that - in theory at least - they contain some true innovation).

So I'm not sure to what degree he can actually be the "legal owner" of those designs. Odd as it may seem I think the case design might have more legal protection that the electronics inside.

(That's as far as I understand these things so far, if any lawyers out there have any greater insight I'd be interested to know)

Quote:
Last week, I heard, at Mario's lab in Rome, the new HIDEA oscillators and filters and, IMHO, they sounds absolutely great, with a lot of features (now) common and until now, very uncommon, with - at least - three or four new behavior on filter and waveform treatments that are IMHO worthy of patent by Mario.

Maybe, in the next week, Mario Maggi himself will decide to show us more details and terms and schedules and everything on the Synthex 2; for now, I can simply state that when it will be ready, it will be a real blast.
I look forward to learning more, I just wish he hadn't felt the need to foist yet another bloody acronym on us. Nine times out of ten there's nothing dramatically new there. Good engineering and a couple of neat ideas doesn't need a new entry in the dictionary.

Last edited by Jon Hodgson; 3rd May 2015 at 07:33 PM..
Old 3rd May 2015
  #427
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Starspawn View Post
Yeah, but even if correct that doesnt mean that soundion doesnt know about it, and Maggi is backstabbing them and so on.
Well he couldn't really be accused of stabbing them in the back unless they had some sort of prior understanding, but considering the timing of this announcement, plus the injection of uncertainly about Soundion actually own the rights to, whether it was his intention or not I think he's done a pretty good job of kicking them in the nuts.

Last edited by Jon Hodgson; 3rd May 2015 at 07:47 PM..
Old 3rd May 2015
  #428
Gear interested
 

John,
it's pretty easy: Mario first developed a prototype of the polysynth that became the Synthex Mk1; he bring it at Elka headquarters and - for all the "Synthex period", he stays there for supervising production; he wrote the codes, he traced the different boards, he engineered everything (from voice board till the MIDI retrofit board), he conceived the original owner's manual.
Last week, I saw with my eyes in Rome, at Mario's Lab: he has ALL the original documentation hand written for schemes, boards, the films for each board,etc.
Still, he has the original source code on aged fanfold (a pretty piece of history!) AND all the preliminary code version hand written.
No way: Synthex Mk1 is Mario's exclusive intellectual property.
He is the legal owner of the name; Generalmusic and/or Elka has never owned anything. That's assured.

Concerning the acronym HIDEA, who cares? When the instrument will be ready, you'll be able to judge by yourself the quality. I suspect, especially for the filters, that this time can be something really new.

:-)
Old 3rd May 2015
  #429
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enrico Cosimi View Post
John,
it's pretty easy: Mario first developed a prototype of the polysynth that became the Synthex Mk1; he bring it at Elka headquarters and - for all the "Synthex period", he stays there for supervising production; he wrote the codes, he traced the different boards, he engineered everything (from voice board till the MIDI retrofit board), he conceived the original owner's manual.
Last week, I saw with my eyes in Rome, at Mario's Lab: he has ALL the original documentation hand written for schemes, boards, the films for each board,etc.
Still, he has the original source code on aged fanfold (a pretty piece of history!) AND all the preliminary code version hand written.
No way: Synthex Mk1 is Mario's exclusive intellectual property.
He is the legal owner of the name; Generalmusic and/or Elka has never owned anything. That's assured.
What I'm saying is that as far as I understand it, there are no intellectual property rights for circuit designs (unless they contain patented elements), unlike software.
Quote:
Concerning the acronym HIDEA, who cares?
In the grand scheme of things, I agree that it's unimportant, it's just a bugbear of mine. For me engineering is an admirable craft and good engineering can even be viewed as art. Acronyms in those situations are like go faster stripes on a ferrari, unnecessary and if anything they cheapen it.

This was actually the motivation for my coming up with a spoof press release many years ago that GForce (then GMedia) decided to use as an April Fool's joke.

Last edited by Jon Hodgson; 3rd May 2015 at 08:11 PM..
Old 3rd May 2015
  #430
Gear interested
 

uhm
concerning the intellectual property of the simple circuit design, frankly I don't know - I'm not a lawyer.

b.t.w. the Bode Frequency Shifter that Moog sold years ago was manufactured from Bob under Harald Bode license.
Today, you don't call it "the Moog Frequency Shifter"

:-)
Old 3rd May 2015
  #431
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enrico Cosimi View Post
uhm
concerning the intellectual property of the simple circuit design, frankly I don't know - I'm not a lawyer.

b.t.w. the Bode Frequency Shifter that Moog sold years ago was manufactured from Bob under Harald Bode license.
Today, you don't call it "the Moog Frequency Shifter"

:-)
Names do not indicate rights.

There are lots of Pultec equalisers around
Old 3rd May 2015
  #432
Gear interested
 

Dunno if mr. Pultec has patented his own surname

The "Synthex" synthesizer name has patented by Mario Maggi
Old 3rd May 2015
  #433
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enrico Cosimi View Post
Dunno if mr. Pultec has patented his own surname

The "Synthex" synthesizer name has patented by Mario Maggi
You can't patent a name, nor copyright it.

You can register a tradenark, but that protection can be a little fluid as I understand it. For example when I was at sensaura the marketing department were adamant that the logo must always be displayed and printed with specific colours ("orange" was not good enough, it had to be pantone number XX), because carying it would make the trademark less specific and thus less protectable.

But regardless, not being able to use the name doesn't prevent you from being able to use the circuitry.
Old 3rd May 2015
  #434
Gear interested
 

John,
frankly, I don't understand the mood of this conversation.

My heart bleeds if, in your past working experiences, someone had stolen something of your work; but, frankly, I do not understand why continue to find difficulty on a thing that's clear and accepted by all. The Synthex is Mario Maggi; Mario Maggi is Synthex. Is plain and simple from 1985 until now; whatever you or someone may say in Finland. If you are interested in some infos concerning the new instruments, I'll be glad - with Mario permission, obviously - to share here where I was invited to do so. Honestly, I have no time for controversy or flames or whatever.
Stay well,
all the best
enrico cosimi
Old 3rd May 2015
  #435
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enrico Cosimi View Post
John,
frankly, I don't understand the mood of this conversation.
It's a discussion, it has no "mood" from my point of view, it's just stuff I find interesting and think others might (including yourself since it seems you have a number of misconceptions about intellectual property law). You've made certain statements about what Mario owns the rights to. I'm merely pointing out that to the best of my understanding, some of those elements he cannot own the rights to, because they are not things which have rights which are own able.
So for example, assuming there's no contract anywhere that says otherwise, he undoubtedly owns the copyright of the firmware of a Synthex. He may also have a protectable trademark in the name, the circuit designs on the other hand, he probably has no control over.

That, so far as I understand it, is just how the law works.

Quote:
My heart bleeds if, in your past working experiences, someone had stolen something of your work; but, frankly, I do not understand why continue to find difficulty on a thing that's clear and accepted by all.
Because it's not, if we're talking about legal rights and protections.
Quote:
The Synthex is Mario Maggi; Mario Maggi is Synthex. Is plain and simple from 1985 until now; whatever you or someone may say in Finland. If you are interested in some infos concerning the new instruments, I'll be glad - with Mario permission, obviously - to share here where I was invited to do so. Honestly, I have no time for controversy or flames or whatever.
Stay well,
all the best
enrico cosimi
I'm not flaming anybody, and since when was talking about the law spreading controversy?

It does appear from your information that Soundion have failed to properly check what they have the rights to, and it would seem that things they assumed they have the rights to they do not (such as the use of the name Synthex, and possibly the use of original firmware if they were intending to use it). But some of the things you assume Mario Maggi has legally protected rights to, such as circuit designs, I think he may not have. Not because he didn't design them (he did), nor because GEM never purchased the license to (it seems from your information that they didn't), but simply because the law just doesn't offer that sort of protection.

Last edited by Jon Hodgson; 3rd May 2015 at 09:15 PM..
Old 3rd May 2015
  #436
Lives for gear
 
Mr Knoch's Avatar
Very interesting turn this thread has taken. I am wondering what will become of the Indiegogo campaign for the Finn Synthex, or if this is all just speculation.
Old 3rd May 2015
  #437
Lives for gear
 

It could be very well be, ofcourse, and I think in fact is most likely, than neither of these projects actually have any interest, stomach or financial reserve for legally challenging each other.

Especially given the ambiguities in patenting and copyright law mentioned. It seems much more likely to me that we'll simply see two competing but related products available in the uite near future.

Last edited by wendell r.; 4th May 2015 at 08:22 AM..
Old 3rd May 2015
  #438
Lives for gear
 
Mr Knoch's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by wendell r. View Post
It could be very well be, ofcourse, and I think in fact is most likely, than neither of these projects actually have any interest, stomach or financial reserve for legally challenging each other..

Especially given the ambiguities in patenting and copyright law mentioned. It seems much more likely to me that we'll simply see two competing but related products available in the uite near future.
You may be right. I don't even know how the different countries would handle these types of laws.
Old 3rd May 2015
  #439
Lives for gear
 
kirkelein's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wendell r. View Post
It could be very well be, ofcourse, and I think in fact is most likely, than neither of these projects actually have any interest, stomach or financial reserve for legally challenging each other..

Especially given the ambiguities in patenting and copyright law mentioned. It seems much more likely to me that we'll simply see two competing but related products available in the uite near future.
This is my first thought too, but I'm interested to see what comes next. Surely at least one of these parties will at least comment on it.

Thank you Jon Hodgson and Enrico Cosimi for your information and discussion. It does bring some light on what we can expect going forward.
Old 4th May 2015
  #440
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickdafunk View Post
Thank you for this insight!!

This is the last drop for me. I am NOT supporting the Finnish guys. The original founder and genius WILL get my money.
So, the 45646th Virtual Analog being released will get your money because its maker did a great analog synth 3 decades ago ? I love my VAs, but well ...

BTW, not sure if this has been posted here, but here's Paul Wiffen on record saying that the new Finnish Synthex's voice boards will work as spare parts for vintage units.

Current Synthex owners : choose your camp wisely

Synths you've been gone: Vintage tech rules at Musikmesse 2015 • The Register

Last edited by reno; 4th May 2015 at 10:30 PM..
Old 4th May 2015
  #441
Lives for gear
 

I don't think he would release synthex 2 after 10 plus years of work unless he felt it was superior in every way
Old 4th May 2015
  #442
Lives for gear
 
oldgearguy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pelican View Post
I don't think he would release synthex 2 after 10 plus years of work unless he felt it was superior in every way
My question is - superior to what? There have been some very good VAs over the years. Think Virus and Waldorf Q+ and there have been some great hybrids too - Waldorf Wave, Modal's products, SunSyn, Dave Smith's PolyEvolver and P-12 and some great analogs - Andromeda, Omega 8.

There's new stuff coming out every week it seems, with the Parva shipping in August and even Roland's JD-Xa in the summer.

At the end of the day for me, I'm no longer buying into vaporware or half finished gear. When it's out and playable and feature complete, then I'll evaluate it to see if it is indeed better than anything else I currently own. Until then, I could care less if it has 128 LFOs or whatever. When it's real and I can hear the raw oscillator/filter/VCA sound without modulations and effects, that'll be when it's time to really pay attention.
Old 4th May 2015
  #443
Lives for gear
 
ranzee's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
i think it will be great if both sides can play well in the sandpit - that way we will have two synthex's to buy
Old 4th May 2015
  #444
Gear Nut
 

If all this is true, why no legal action against the new owners of Gem?
Old 4th May 2015
  #445
Lives for gear
 
genetic92's Avatar
 

its awfully quiet at in FINLAND LOL

anywayzzzz: i think its BAD TASTE that they make something behind the original creators back.... even more so that they publicly do a CROWD FUND for this so that the original creater in italy can see how much money is involved without him getting even a commission!! WOW....

thats like 0 RESPECT.... even KORG did it the right way eventho MINI KEYS (but letz not go there now lol got be banned before! :P )
Old 4th May 2015
  #446
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by genetic92 View Post
its awfully quiet at in FINLAND LOL

anywayzzzz: i think its BAD TASTE that they make something behind the original creators back.... even more so that they publicly do a CROWD FUND for this so that the original creater in italy can see how much money is involved without him getting even a commission!! WOW....
I think you're probably being a bit harsh. Nothing was being done "behind the original creators back", this is a very public project (though not public enough from a money raising point of view) and they would expect him to find out. The question mark that's now come out over the rights to the name Synthex, which they've obviously assumed they have, leads me to think that it's actually a misunderstanding and they believe that Mario SOLD all his interests in Synthex to Elka, which they have subsequently bought. It seems perhaps he didn't.
Quote:
thats like 0 RESPECT.... even KORG did it the right way eventho MINI KEYS (but letz not go there now lol got be banned before! :P )
Alan Robert Pearlman wasn't involved in it though, which is why to me it isn't an ARP, or a KARP, but a KOD.

(no reflection on the quality of the instrument).

On the subject of respect though, it does please me that before we started on the impOSCar project we got Chris Huggett's blessing. Not only that, but he supplied me with his original assembler source code for the firmware, and at the end of it was kind enough to say that it looked and sounded right to him, he's a great engineer with an inventive mind and also a very nice guy.

Last edited by Jon Hodgson; 4th May 2015 at 03:49 PM..
Old 4th May 2015
  #447
Lives for gear
 
genetic92's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Hodgson View Post
The question mark that's now come out over the rights to the name Synthex, which they've obviously assumed they have, leads me to think that it's actually a misunderstanding and they believe that Mario SOLD all his interests in Synthex to Elka, which they have subsequently bought. It seems perhaps he didn't.
"ASSUMED" is the first FOUL here.

You cannot ASSUME stuff like this. if a company ASSUME something as crucial as this it is only selfish!!! they are obviously blind and only see dollar bills...!!

a misunderstanding, as you politely say is putting it lightly.
But from a business point of view as well as personal, the finnish guys are actually stabbing the original founder & creater of the Synthax in the back.....
Old 4th May 2015
  #448
Gear Addict
 

Mr genetic you seem to portray yourself as someone knowing an awful lot about "professional way of handling business" but I'll have to say there is so little factual knowledge about anything in this whole drama that you only seem very biased throwing out all those quasi-rational allegations.

First of all, many honest and reputable companies unfortunately end up buying rights from other companies under valid and sound agreements who also genuinely think they own something which later down the line perhaps was not 100%. It is a problem but we don't know about that in this case.

Secondly, pls also note that the only ip right that seems tangible at this point is the right to use the name Synthex. The design as far as I know isn't public (asSuming it exists of course). Now, even if the alleged rights to the name havent been passed on from Mr Mario Maggi then in order for him to enforce any real claim (besides cheap shots on gearslutz) he'd at least had had to have it registered (and not only in Italy or provence nearby Rome) and renewed his registration every ten year period and continued active use of the name in order to not be subject to losing his rights for passivity.

That is just the tip of the ice berg of paralegal concerns one might have based on the sparse information available and before hearing anything real from either side I'd tone down the name calling just a tad.

Personally I hope the best for both projects
Old 4th May 2015
  #449
htk
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by genetic92 View Post
its awfully quiet at in FINLAND LOL

anywayzzzz: i think its BAD TASTE that they make something behind the original creators back.... even more so that they publicly do a CROWD FUND for this so that the original creater in italy can see how much money is involved without him getting even a commission!! WOW....

thats like 0 RESPECT.... even KORG did it the right way eventho MINI KEYS (but letz not go there now lol got be banned before! :P )
Pls wipe that mad off your mouth. The discussion in this thread was about justified critique & merits of the reissue, not this crazy bs.
Old 5th May 2015
  #450
Here for the gear
 
sintetizza's Avatar
Legal issues for Synthex - what the databases say

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Hodgson View Post
It does appear from your information that Soundion have failed to properly check what they have the rights to, and it would seem that things they assumed they have the rights to they do not (such as the use of the name Synthex, and possibly the use of original firmware if they were intending to use it). But some of the things you assume Mario Maggi has legally protected rights to, such as circuit designs, I think he may not have. Not because he didn't design them (he did), nor because GEM never purchased the license to (it seems from your information that they didn't), but simply because the law just doesn't offer that sort of protection.
Just my 2 Cents: and @Enrico Cosimi:

1) According to databases, the trade mark "SYNTHEX" has NEVER been subject to legal protection for musical instruments or the like (at least in the western world) - not until April 29. 2015 when an Italian applicant applied for trade mark protection within the European Community. Note that an application does not automatically mean legal registration or protection.

2) According to databases, there is no valid patent protection for Synthex original technology to date. Even if there had been once - patent protection did expire after 20 years (in Europe).

3) there might be protecion for the original source code as is, but unless s.b. uses an MOS 6502 CPU for his design, there will be no protection either

AFAIK, and as sad as it is: Mario Maggi currently has NO legal protection for his original design of the ELKA Synthex.
The Finnish guys already may have checked this before they started this enterprise.
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump