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Roland JV-1080 and JV-2080 comparison
Old 14th December 2014
  #1
Roland JV-1080 and JV-2080 comparison

So just for fun... I did a quick comparison video between the the JV-1080 and JV-2080.

The is not that extensive but I was surprised at how the same patches sounded so different between the two machines. I used the SR-JV-80 Techno card in both units to keep it as equal as possible.





Also, here are the spectral analysis of both units.

JV-2080


JV-1080
Old 14th December 2014
  #2
Lives for gear
 

What's the best sounding in your view, Jim?
Old 14th December 2014 | Show parent
  #3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perplexo View Post
What's the best sounding in your view, Jim?
In my opinion.... There is not one entirely better than the other. Some sounds are nicer in the 1080 and some are nicer in 2080. That being said, I do think the analog sounds are a bit thicker in the 1080. They are both great.
Old 14th December 2014 | Show parent
  #4
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Stout View Post
In my opinion.... There is not one entirely better than the other. Some sounds are nicer in the 1080 and some are nicer in 2080. That being said, I do think the analog sounds are a bit thicker in the 1080. They are both great.
Interesting. The reason I asked is that one of my friends thought the 1080 sounded better and he speculated it was due to the converters being lower resolution than in the 2080. I haven't any personal experience with these myself, but have thought about picking up the 2080 several times.
Old 14th December 2014
  #5
Old 14th December 2014
  #6
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tux99's Avatar
 

Just listened to your comparison video, you are using different FX settings so this is not a correct comparison, you should disable FX completely for a correct comparison.
Old 14th December 2014
  #7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Stout View Post
The is not that extensive but I was surprised at how the same patches sounded so different between the two machines.
Probably an error in import routine. These cards were originally designed for JV-80 and JV-90 synthesizers. Super JV essentially imports JV-80 patches (since waveform set is slightly different). There might be an error with EFX setting, since JV synths do not have EFX block which was introduced with Super JV series.

It would be more interesting to do comparison between stock presets of 1080 and 2080. I am 99.99% sure they will sound 100% identical.
Old 14th December 2014 | Show parent
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Solaris View Post
Probably an error in import routine. These cards were originally designed for JV-80 and JV-90 synthesizers. Super JV essentially imports JV-80 patches (since waveform set is slightly different). There might be an error with EFX setting, since JV synths do not have EFX block which was introduced with Super JV series.

It would be more interesting to do comparison between stock presets of 1080 and 2080. I am 99.99% sure they will sound 100% identical.
I can seen that…. for the second round I was going to use the GM set and turn off all effects and see how that sounds.

I'll make another real quick.
Old 14th December 2014
  #9
Nah, GM set sucks. Feel free to enable effects and go with the usual suspects:

LetterFrmPat
Dusk 2 Dawn
Flying Waltz
Blade Racer
Old 15th December 2014 | Show parent
  #10
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Solaris View Post
Probably an error in import routine. These cards were originally designed for JV-80 and JV-90 synthesizers. Super JV essentially imports JV-80 patches (since waveform set is slightly different). There might be an error with EFX setting, since JV synths do not have EFX block which was introduced with Super JV series.
But he played these in a 1080 and a 2080. Shouldnt they both sound equally bad or good according to everything you just mentioned?

Also what year was the Techno Expansion produced? I always thought it was released late 90's (1997/1998 era) after the 2080 was released so that Roland had new SR JV80 Expansions to sell for new owners of the 2080.
Old 15th December 2014 | Show parent
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkstar2010 View Post
Also what year was the Techno Expansion produced? I always thought it was released late 90's (1997/1998 era) after the 2080 was released so that Roland had new SR JV80 Expansions to sell for new owners of the 2080.
I wonder would it make sense to manufacture SR-JV board for 2080. Because then all the owners of JV-80, JV-880, JV-90 and JV-1000 would complain of not being able to use it. It is SR-JV board, so it has to be compatible with JV-80 at the first place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkstar2010 View Post
But he played these in a 1080 and a 2080. Shouldnt they both sound equally bad or good according to everything you just mentioned?
I don't know. But if it is true that he didn't adjust any settings/or enabled disable some effects, then it must be import error on one of the machines. 2080 does not have 100% same engine as 1080 because it offers total of 3 x EFX blocks, compared to 1 EFX block on 1080. So could be an error in effects section. Takes 5 seconds to check, not sure why hasn't been checked already.
Old 15th December 2014
  #12


The difference is that there's different FX settings on them.
Old 15th December 2014 | Show parent
  #13
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Solaris View Post
I wonder would it make sense to manufacture SR-JV board for 2080. Because then all the owners of JV-80, JV-880, JV-90 and JV-1000 would complain of not being able to use it. It is SR-JV board, so it has to be compatible with JV-80 at the first place.
I didn't say that the SR-JV Techno Expansion was only compatible with the 2080...I said that Roland released new SR-JV Expansions when they released the 2080. It has 8 Expansion slots and Roland sold new cards for $500. Obviously they would make new cards to profit off of that. I was very unclear about the point you were trying to make about original SR-JV Expansions. & The JV-80/880 etc. My point was if the Techno Expansion did come out at the same time as the 2080 or afterwards...it makese sense that it's even more compatible with the 2080 than the JV80/880 JV90 etc. I'm also confused with your original point of compatibility anyways because the Expansions have their own waveforms included so original preset waveform on all the Roland S&S Modules doesnt make a difference one way or the other. It's entirely on the SR-JV boards. You know more about these Roland synths than anyone else on Earth including Roland lol so I just found your original comments confusing and unclear about how any of that mattered when comparing the Techno card in the 1080 & 2080.

Do you know what year the Techno card came out? For all I know it could be 92. But I believe I remember it was 97/98ish.
Old 15th December 2014 | Show parent
  #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitleyTM View Post


The difference is that there's different FX settings on them.
Hey Bitley! How are you?

Yes, I fully understand all the differences. My only point was to take an expansion card and see how different they sounded. FX and all.

Like I said... This is not extensive just for fun.
Old 15th December 2014 | Show parent
  #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitleyTM View Post


The difference is that there's different FX settings on them.
Hey Bitley! How are you?

Yes, I fully understand all the differences. My only point was to take an expansion card and see how different they sounded. FX and all.

Like I said... This is not extensive just for fun.
Old 15th December 2014
  #16
Ah ok. I'll buy that explanation. But it looks like one of those geeky threads where someone all of a sudden finds a difference between two things that supposedly should sound the same, say the MKS-70 in 12-voice / tone mode against the JX8P: A real sonic difference, which may not have been expected.
Old 15th December 2014 | Show parent
  #17
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bitleyTM View Post
Ah ok. I'll buy that explanation. But it looks like one of those geeky threads where someone all of a sudden finds a difference between two things that supposedly should sound the same, say the MKS-70 in 12-voice / tone mode against the JX8P: A real sonic difference, which may not have been expected.
Which sounded better the JX8P? And do you have a link to the audio example of that? Thanks
Old 15th December 2014 | Show parent
  #18
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitleyTM View Post
Ah ok. I'll buy that explanation. But it looks like one of those geeky threads where someone all of a sudden finds a difference between two things that supposedly should sound the same, say the MKS-70 in 12-voice / tone mode against the JX8P: A real sonic difference, which may not have been expected.
LOL.... nah. I was just surprised when I heard it and thought I would share.
Old 15th December 2014
  #19
Jim: Why surprised, the 2080 has more FX units you know Anyway... Darkstar; there's many differences. JX10/MKS70 has LFOs that retrigger; the 8P's don't, which is desirable for my use. Also the sound itself has different qualities to it, the 8P is more lush and rich on single tones.

What I have in audio to examplify this: well, sorry, no A/B file. But you can hear my 8P multitracked;

Old 15th December 2014
  #20
Gear Maniac
 

The 8P sounds really nice :]
Old 15th December 2014 | Show parent
  #21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkstar2010 View Post
I didn't say that the SR-JV Techno Expansion was only compatible with the 2080...I said that Roland released new SR-JV Expansions when they released the 2080. It has 8 Expansion slots and Roland sold new cards for $500. Obviously they would make new cards to profit off of that. I was very unclear about the point you were trying to make about original SR-JV Expansions. & The JV-80/880 etc. My point was if the Techno Expansion did come out at the same time as the 2080 or afterwards...it makese sense that it's even more compatible with the 2080 than the JV80/880 JV90 etc. I'm also confused with your original point of compatibility anyways because the Expansions have their own waveforms included so original preset waveform on all the Roland S&S Modules doesnt make a difference one way or the other. It's entirely on the SR-JV boards. You know more about these Roland synths than anyone else on Earth including Roland lol so I just found your original comments confusing and unclear about how any of that mattered when comparing the Techno card in the 1080 & 2080.

Do you know what year the Techno card came out? For all I know it could be 92. But I believe I remember it was 97/98ish.
I am 99.99% sure Roland kept SR-JV in its original JV-80 standard. So that it loads directly into JV-80 without any issues. Only card that i know of that had extra patch data was Vintage Expansion which included extra 256 patches for JD-990. In order to use full potential of 2080, they would have to do the same thing for Techno card. But so far i didn't found any evidence supporting this. (i.e. "this card includes extra 256 patches to employ the full power of Super JV series..."). Vintage card clearly states it contains extra patches on its brochure/patch list.

Expansions have their own waveforms, that's true. But if a patch uses stock ROM waveform, it might cause a problem. I didn't try all the cards to know if some use stock ROM waveforms so can not give definite answer. I just mentioned it as potential problem when importing JV-80 patches into Super JV machine in case they slightly changed import routine between 1080 and 2080 generation.

Same applies for effects thing. If they slightly changed import routine in 2080, this might be the reason. There is not EFX block on JV-80. I am also sure JV-80 patches need to be translated into Super JV (and not loaded directly) because some parameters such as Soft and Hard resonance setting do not exist in Super JV. Yet, Super JV is able to read those patches, which makes me suspect it is using some sort of import protocol. I may be wrong here. Maybe it reads directly and discards data it doesn't understand. But how does it know which data to discard. Must be some sort of import routine. Catch 22.

If they made the Techno card more compatible with 2080 then it would sound exactly the same on 1080. Although their engines are slightly different (2080 has 3xEFX), the EFX algorithms themselves on these two machines are exactly the same.
Old 15th December 2014
  #22
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tux99's Avatar
 

To conclude:
when comparing sounds effects should be turned off, there is a dedicated button for that on the JV1080 (and I guess also on the 2080) so it's easy to do.
Old 15th December 2014
  #23
No need to turn effects off. 1080 and 2080 have exactly the same factory presets and EFX algorithms. To conclude: use factory presets.
Old 15th December 2014
  #24
Deleted b598644
Guest
If you want to compare the pure sound quality, use only 1 tone and the same bare oscillator on the 2 machines without FX and filtersettings and only then do the maths...
Seems pretty obvious...
Old 15th December 2014 | Show parent
  #25
Gear Guru
 
Yoozer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitleyTM View Post
Jim: Why surprised, the 2080 has more FX units you know
3 inserts on the 2080 vs 1 insert on the 1080. However, I'd be surprised if you could plonk all three inserts on a single patch; I've always assumed the 2080 to be improved only in such a way that you could put in more expansions and had more inserts and a bigger display.

At least for me with the XP30, it's always been a balancing act to choose whether you really wanted to keep the distorted guitar or the overdriven 303 if you were multitracking with MIDI only

Quote:
This is really nice! Is this the JX8P by itself? How much (if any) did you have to play with transient designers?
Old 15th December 2014
  #26
Yeah the drumloop was of course not 8P
Old 15th December 2014
  #27
Gear Guru
 
Yoozer's Avatar
Yeah, but I meant more in the sense whether you used the 8P directly or whether this was the 8P in a refill or Kontakt library
Old 15th December 2014 | Show parent
  #28
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitleyTM View Post
Darkstar; there's many differences. JX10/MKS70 has LFOs that retrigger;]
My LFO in MKS-70 runs free just nicely.
Old 15th December 2014
  #29
Aha. No that track was cut directly from the 8P.
Old 15th December 2014 | Show parent
  #30
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machinecultist's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Solaris View Post
Expansions have their own waveforms, that's true. But if a patch uses stock ROM waveform, it might cause a problem. I didn't try all the cards to know if some use stock ROM waveforms so can not give definite answer. I just mentioned it as potential problem when importing JV-80 patches into Super JV machine in case they slightly changed import routine between 1080 and 2080 generation.
Actually a lot of patches use stock waveforms. The D-Mention patch in the video uses choir waves from stock ROM. A few patches in the SRJV cards even use stock ROM only. I wonder why that didn't cause a revolt when the cards were selling for full price

Quote:
If they made the Techno card more compatible with 2080 then it would sound exactly the same on 1080. Although their engines are slightly different (2080 has 3xEFX), the EFX algorithms themselves on these two machines are exactly the same.
Agreed. I think there is no way to run more than 1 EFX in patch mode, so then end result should be identical from the sound engine point of view.

I'm a bit puzzled why the comparison actually sounds that different. I remember comparing some internal presets when retiring my 1080 in favor of 2080, and while I think 1080 sounded just a bit more raw and thick, it really was a non-issue for me. The overall sound character is very similar and the differences would probably vanish in a mix.

If they actually changed the import routine (why, oh why Roland), it could be verified by dumping the same patches on both machines over MIDI and comparing the sysex files. If my memory serves the single path sysex format is identical except for extra byte in 2080 for storing the patch category.
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