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Arturia matrix 12 emulation
Old 1st February 2015
  #211
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lestermagneto's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by barryfell View Post
Surely it has to be a bug, but I know Arturia are slow at releasing new versions.
GLACIALLY slow!
Old 2nd February 2015
  #212
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barryfell's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usabell View Post
To verify this, I just recorded silence from my Matrix-12, and used it to produce a sonogram. I recorded it at 192 kHz to minimize any side effects of sampling, and there are definitely some dominant frequencies in there, but they are all outside of the audible range. Maybe not all Matrix-12 models are the same, but this specific one (made in 1987) doesn't have anything around 10 kHz.

EDIT: For completeness' sake, I added the same test for the Arturia plug-in as well. Silence exported at 192 kHz. Still, nothing at 10 kHz, so it's definitely not the noise floor modeling.
It doesn't appear when running at 192 khz, hence why you didn't see/hear it there. The samples you posted earlier must have been recorded at 44.1khz.

The spike is at 10k when at 44.1khz, 15k at 48khz and so on...
Old 2nd February 2015
  #213
Quote:
Originally Posted by barryfell View Post
It doesn't appear when running at 192 khz, hence why you didn't see/hear it there. The samples you posted earlier must have been recorded at 44.1khz.

The spike is at 10k when at 44.1khz, 15k at 48khz and so on...
Wait, doesn't that mean that we have a working solution now? Just do your arrangement, then export all the tracks from the plug in 192 kHz, after that convert back to 44.1 with highest possible conversion settings (something I always do even when I record hardware analog synths, because it clearly sounds better in the high end), and then re-importing the audio in your project and do the mix/mastering. A bit complicated, but better than having a strange noise in there.
Old 2nd February 2015
  #214
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barryfell's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usabell View Post
Wait, doesn't that mean that we have a working solution now? Just do your arrangement, then export all the tracks from the plug in 192 kHz, after that convert back to 44.1 with highest possible conversion settings (something I always do even when I record hardware analog synths, because it clearly sounds better in the high end), and then re-importing the audio in your project and do the mix/mastering. A bit complicated, but better than having a strange noise in there.
Yeah I guess it is a workaround, but it means you will still hear it while working on the project at a lower sample rate which can become unbearable.
Old 2nd February 2015
  #215
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jaxman12's Avatar
Update for the Matrix12V came out on January 29, 2015. Download and update if you haven't already.

v1.1.0
New Features
LFO Synchronisation
Program Change
Easy way to convert a single to a multi
Voice Steal off by default in all presets
New bank of presets
Bugfixes
Voice randomly shutdowned (119074)
Multiple simultaneous MIDI devices not working in standalone (119046)
Failing to restore the MIDI settings preferences (119080)
Output channels settings not recalled (119082)
Crash while reloading vst3 state in Cubase and StudioOne (119059, 118971)
Midi assignment for preset change (118667)
Junk-Jam preset does not sound (119002)
VST automation instead of Midi automation in AU (119802)
constants tone when vca2 open and no waveform (119698)
stuck notes on multi (119771)
Known Issues
FLStudio crash on preset change when using bridged version (vst32 on FL64 / vst64 on FL32)
Sonar X3 does not validate vst3 plug : use vst
Old 2nd April 2015
  #216
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Usabell View Post
They are two different-sounding synths based on the same architecture. What saddens me is that the voluminous low end gained through voice layering on the original just cancels out too perfectly like a flanger on the Arturia emulation, thus making is far less fat and more raspy in nature.
+1
You very well sum up the point between real vintage analogue vs plugs emulation

(nice music by the way)
Old 2nd April 2015
  #217
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Firechild's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaxman12 View Post
Update for the Matrix12V came out on January 29, 2015. Download and update if you haven't already.

v1.1.0
New Features
LFO Synchronisation
Program Change
Easy way to convert a single to a multi
Voice Steal off by default in all presets
New bank of presets
Bugfixes
Voice randomly shutdowned (119074)
Multiple simultaneous MIDI devices not working in standalone (119046)
Failing to restore the MIDI settings preferences (119080)
Output channels settings not recalled (119082)
Crash while reloading vst3 state in Cubase and StudioOne (119059, 118971)
Midi assignment for preset change (118667)
Junk-Jam preset does not sound (119002)
VST automation instead of Midi automation in AU (119802)
constants tone when vca2 open and no waveform (119698)
stuck notes on multi (119771)
Known Issues
FLStudio crash on preset change when using bridged version (vst32 on FL64 / vst64 on FL32)
Sonar X3 does not validate vst3 plug : use vst
Yes , this update was great. I was not very impressed with the Matrix12V at first but now I can say it is a pretty good VA. I could dial in the same values from my Xpander and with just a few extra tweaks the sound was definitely in the same Xpander kind of land. Sure , as with all plugins "something" is missing but this is one of the better emulations so far.
The Arturia SEM V is good as well and so is the Jupiter 8V. The problem with the Jupiter 8V is that the sliders have a too wide range compared to the original so it is very time consuming to find the sweet spots where it is most sounding as the hardware.
Arturia MiniV and CS-80V...they are not good , at all. The CS-80V is not even close ... the sound and vibe is not there and again the sliders have a TOO wide range.
But again , give the Matrix 12V a chance not bad at all.
Old 3rd April 2015
  #218
Gear Nut
 
Zoftware's Avatar
 

[QUOTE=Firechild;10941616]Yes , this update was great. I was not very impressed with the Matrix12V at first but now I can say it is a pretty good VA. I could dial in the same values from my Xpander and with just a few extra tweaks the sound was definitely in the same Xpander kind of land. Sure , as with all plugins "something" is missing but this is one of the better emulations so far.


This is something I was wondering about. So do the actual numerical value settings on the Arturia app correspond to the same number value on the Xpander?

If so, that would be a pretty interesting way to audition patches quickly on the Arturia app and then dialing them into the Xpander itself once you find a sound you like. The layout of the arturia app looks like it gives a lot more information on the main page as opposed to menu diving on the 3 little screens of the Xpander. If the numbers do correlate, how cool would it be you could actually dump the patch info into the Xpander via sysex directly too? Ah, a boy can only dream...

Last edited by Zoftware; 3rd April 2015 at 06:07 PM..
Old 3rd April 2015
  #219
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synthguy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firechild View Post
Arturia MiniV and CS-80V...they are not good , at all. The CS-80V is not even close ... the sound and vibe is not there and again the sliders have a TOO wide range.
I have to differ with this. It's really cool that a small number of us have an actual CS-80 in playable condition, even some with MIDI. But most of us don't have the $10,000-plus in a cookie jar it takes to join this party, or the $3000 to get a Voyager for that matter.

I know that in person, a real analog is pure chewing satisfaction and a VA or softie is 95% of that at best. But if we want those textures, what are the alternatives? GMonsta or whatever it is, is pretty good, but I just don't hear much difference between it and Minimoog V. And ME-80 sounds like something from XILS or U-He, rather generic. In fact, the Memorymoon softs all sound rather similar, while I have been able to make patches with CS-80V that sound like the CS-80 from albums of yore.

There are opinions, and there are facts, and obviously one is more fluid and up to debate.
Old 3rd April 2015
  #220
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Firechild's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by synthguy View Post
I have to differ with this. It's really cool that a small number of us have an actual CS-80 in playable condition, even some with MIDI. But most of us don't have the $10,000-plus in a cookie jar it takes to join this party, or the $3000 to get a Voyager for that matter.

I know that in person, a real analog is pure chewing satisfaction and a VA or softie is 95% of that at best. But if we want those textures, what are the alternatives? GMonsta or whatever it is, is pretty good, but I just don't hear much difference between it and Minimoog V. And ME-80 sounds like something from XILS or U-He, rather generic. In fact, the Memorymoon softs all sound rather similar, while I have been able to make patches with CS-80V that sound like the CS-80 from albums of yore.

There are opinions, and there are facts, and obviously one is more fluid and up to debate.
Of course , I agree completely and it is only my opinion and I agree with you regarding the ME-80 and Memorymoon too. However , the Yamaha CS-80 must be the hardest synth to emulate , it is extremely alive and organic , and it is not sounding the same from one hour to another so my point is that some hardware you can´t emulate. A model D with early serial is a drifting nightmare...if you are going to emulate this in software nobody would buy the soft
So , to put it this way , the CS-80V is a great sounding software but very far away from the real deal , but the Matrix 12V is much closer the hardware soundwise and programming wise as the parameter values are having similar ranges the CS-80V has not. My CS-80 unit has a lot of Saturation going on too when playing harder , it is not there in the software at all.

Last edited by Firechild; 3rd April 2015 at 07:04 PM..
Old 3rd April 2015
  #221
Gear Guru
 
zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firechild View Post
Arturia MiniV and CS-80V...they are not good , at all.
MiniV is for sure showing it's age. The resonance never sounded good to me. But have you heard CS80v 2? I really like it. Great for sad forlorn pads and those 70ish sci-fi movie sounds.
Old 4th April 2015
  #222
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synthguy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firechild View Post
the Yamaha CS-80 must be the hardest synth to emulate , it is extremely alive and organic , and it is not sounding the same from one hour to another so my point is that some hardware you can´t emulate.

So , to put it this way , the CS-80V is a great sounding software but very far away from the real deal... soundwise and programming wise as the parameter values are having similar ranges the CS-80V has not. My CS-80 unit has a lot of Saturation going on too when playing harder , it is not there in the software at all.
I have to agree back. I think the CS-80 is probably the hardest synth to emulate, mostly because the filters do such strange things as they close down. When I heard the first CS-80V demos, I was as unimpressed as most people here from the rather uninspiring sounds and music used to convey them. It reminded me of the ME-80, rather generic sounding. I was impressed with the Moog Modular V when it was released. But having played on a CS-80 for a while myself, as well as the entire CS family, I thought that Arturia must have come up with a generic synth engine, fussed with the filter math a little, and slapped ubiquitous GUIs on them for each emulation.

But then I heard some user demos of CS-80V which sounded eerily correct. And then got my hands on it myself, and an Origin, and it is rather uncanny. And look, it's close enough that renown keyboardists from Eddie Jobson to Keith Emerson have used both the CS-80V and Origin to replace their synths. In Emo's case, replaced his GX-1! And there are a number of other musicians who have gone this route, and not simply out of convenience.

And this is where I'm coming from. I've programmed all kinds of "stand in" CS-80ish patches on a number of synths to one degree of success to another, but they always left me knowing that some essential soul of the sound wasn't there. But with the Arturias, that essence is there, enough so that I don't angst over not having a CS-80. I angst over them instead.

It would be quite an entirely different matter if I was in the CS-80 club, or even the CS-70 though it's not the same thing. Heck, Vangelis owns something like nine of these monsters! Some modified. In that case, sure, forget the stunt double and use the real thing, maybe get an Origin to use on stage. But until that day, the only thing within reach are these Arturias. And nothing else captures that CS-80 sound as well. If they did, and I could afford them, I sure as heck would use them! heh
Old 4th April 2015
  #223
Deleted User
Guest
[QUOTE=Zoftware;10944873]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firechild View Post
Yes , this update was great. I was not very impressed with the Matrix12V at first but now I can say it is a pretty good VA. I could dial in the same values from my Xpander and with just a few extra tweaks the sound was definitely in the same Xpander kind of land. Sure , as with all plugins "something" is missing but this is one of the better emulations so far....
That's my experience too. When I first tried out the Matrix12V it sounded crap to me, compared with my Xpander. But later on I gave it a second chance and was chocked when I A/B compared the filters. Well, the 12V has not the claws of the Xpander (and M12) and sounds more flat, but in a context of music it is close in my ears, especially when send it thrue a decent tube channel strip. So I had to buy the 12V. It's a great synth.

When it comes to other Arturia emulations such CS80 I didn't like it... until I turned of modulation effects etc. Then it turned out to be interesting.

Last edited by Deleted User; 4th April 2015 at 03:12 PM..
Old 7th April 2015
  #224
Gear Head
 
ferran's Avatar
 

[QUOTE=Analog Prophet;10946802]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoftware View Post

That's my experience too... the 12V has not the claws of the Xpander (and M12) and sounds more flat...

When it comes to other Arturia emulations such CS80 I didn't like it... until I turned of modulation effects etc.
Agreed. The Xpander is NOT the same. It has a certain grit that's all its own.
Old 19th April 2015
  #225
Gear Maniac
Just bought the Arturia Collection pack and am pretty amazed about the Matrix 12V to be honest.

I have a Oberheim Matrix 12 and have done some A/B ing. Seems that the parameters in the 12V mostly match the factory presets but not always.

I compared one sound in particular (called 2001) and not all is the same but then again I am not sure if the FACTORY sounds I have really are the original factory or if they were tweaked at some point.

Arturia on the left and Xplorer software on the right.

HIRES at HIRES pic

Often when we have stayed with a synth for year we have our own favourite sounds and tend to keep them if only for that particular sound (had the same problem with my Z1).

In my Matrix I have about 5 sounds I regularly use. One of them is a kinda late 70s early 80s ECM sound (I'm thinking Rainer Bruninghaus albums) which I came across when I bought my Oberheim back in 2010.

The following patch uses just PULSE waves tuned in fourths. Arturia first then Matrix 12

Ji without EQ

The following is the same sound with EQ applied to the Arturia to boost the low end and mids.

Ji with EQ

The results are almost identical on this patch at least. The differences I hear are more on the filter (which does not seem to have the same character) and the PULSE waveform itself which is a little different.

But to all intents and purposes this is damn close!

Will dig deeper...
Old 20th April 2015
  #226
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by orangefunk View Post
The results are almost identical on this patch at least. The differences I hear are more on the filter (which does not seem to have the same character) and the PULSE waveform itself which is a little different.

But to all intents and purposes this is damn close!

Will dig deeper...
Thanks,

Indeed we hear more the typical Oberheim filter medium sound on the real one.
Also the main differences for me are on the attacks. It's straight and steady on the Arturia while on the real one we could almost think of a real organ with more complex and organic transients which bring them more in front.
Old 22nd April 2015
  #227
Gear Maniac
i think this video shws a lot of the similarities and differences I encountered. I think on a lot of the patches he could of applied EQ and got pretty close though.

Old 9th November 2016
  #228
DSK
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DSK's Avatar
1 and a half year later resurrection.

Wow they do sound pretty close.

In 5 years it's going to be completely indistinguishable.
Old 9th November 2016
  #229
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSK View Post
1 and a half year later resurrection.

Wow they do sound pretty close.

In 5 years it's going to be completely indistinguishable.
I honestly doubt that, because with each bit of getting closer the required CPU load doubles, to a point where it becomes impractical. They would have to emulate every single little resistor, diode, capacitor and PCB trace inside the synth and its minuscule effect it adds to the signal to emulate it 100%, and right now it's far far away from the real thing, especially the analog summing of the voices. I've also never seen Arturia add more to their plug-ins to increase CPU load.
Old 9th November 2016
  #230
Gear Maniac
 
theJPdude's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Usabell View Post
I honestly doubt that, because with each bit of getting closer the required CPU load doubles, to a point where it becomes impractical. They would have to emulate every single little resistor, diode, capacitor and PCB trace inside the synth and its minuscule effect it adds to the signal to emulate it 100%, and right now it's far far away from the real thing, especially the analog summing of the voices. I've also never seen Arturia add more to their plug-ins to increase CPU load.
You've got a good point.

I popped in to the Arturia thread on KVR, and Arturia say they will eventually overhaul the code. Truthfully, I don't believe it, since it seems that they are more focused on hardware these days. Given the advances made with raw CPU power in the last 5 years, I think that their product could sound a lot better. Heck, look at DIVA or the new Pro 1 emulation.

I think in the next 5 years, we'll see even more of a leap. Or, at least I'd hope.
Old 9th November 2016
  #231
Quote:
Originally Posted by theJPdude View Post
You've got a good point.

I popped in to the Arturia thread on KVR, and Arturia say they will eventually overhaul the code. Truthfully, I don't believe it, since it seems that they are more focused on hardware these days. Given the advances made with raw CPU power in the last 5 years, I think that their product could sound a lot better. Heck, look at DIVA or the new Pro 1 emulation.

I think in the next 5 years, we'll see even more of a leap. Or, at least I'd hope.
Yes, I completely agree with you on this one. I really love Diva and use it a lot in tandem with all of my hardware synths. Sometimes a plug-in sits better in a mix or fits a specific situation better than any of my hardware, and sometimes it's the other way. Glad to be able to use the best of both worlds. Diva actually sounds eerily close to a good DCO synth, which is quite a feat. It's already 85% there. However, I've yet to hear any software that sounds like a VCO synth with all its subtle nuances, drifting voices and lovely and organic out of tune-ness and smooth character.
Old 9th November 2016
  #232
Lives for gear
After trying the M12 demo, I posted here for opinions on whether the rest were worth getting as a collection, or just to get the M12. I liked it that much.

I tried a few more demos and went with the collection. But the M12 is what really sold me. I like a few of the others quite a bit too.
Old 9th November 2016
  #233
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lestermagneto's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by felis View Post
After trying the M12 demo, I posted here for opinions on whether the rest were worth getting as a collection, or just to get the M12. I liked it that much.

I tried a few more demos and went with the collection. But the M12 is what really sold me. I like a few of the others quite a bit too.
don't bother with arturia. they are 2006 tech with unresponsive technical support and problems. better off with freeware. honestly. I really hate them.
Old 9th November 2016
  #234
Gear Guru
 
zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by theJPdude View Post
You've got a good point.

I popped in to the Arturia thread on KVR, and Arturia say they will eventually overhaul the code. Truthfully, I don't believe it, since it seems that they are more focused on hardware these days. Given the advances made with raw CPU power in the last 5 years, I think that their product could sound a lot better. Heck, look at DIVA or the new Pro 1 emulation.

I think in the next 5 years, we'll see even more of a leap. Or, at least I'd hope.
I agree. I'm not sure why but they seem like they're fixed on the idea that their plug ins should be super CPU efficient. While that's good, in one sense, it makes them not so good compared to the Diva's and XILS synths. I think they really need to at least add quality modes for those of us who'd be fine with a high CPU use if the sound quality was there.
Old 9th November 2016
  #235
Gear Maniac
 

Hi guys,
you can be confident we will improve our engines in the next years. You can already check the updated Mini V filter to have an idea of these improvements. However this will take lots of time because there are so much work.

Kevin
Old 9th November 2016
  #236
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lestermagneto's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Hi guys,
you can be confident we will improve our engines in the next years. You can already check the updated Mini V filter to have an idea of these improvements. However this will take lots of time because there are so much work.

Kevin
Kevin, I will give you points for showing up... but confidence in your company is extremely low. ... and dropping daily... and i will happily contribute to your downfall on a daily basis if provoked and asked.

Not to mention the rudeness and incredulous insulting nature of your customer support.

I personally have never had a worse experience with a company, and in my 26 years as a professional in this industry, that is saying something. sincerely. I will stand by my words. Your people are horrible.

Your stuff was ok in 2006.. meh, maybe?

and i'm really sorry if our excitement about the improved "filters" in your Mini V over, how did you say it..."the next years" (?!!) are met with less excitement then then the breathless anticipation your company would like.

Old 9th November 2016
  #237
Gear Maniac
 

@ lestermagneto : You were much less rude with us back in June when you said were appreciating the fact that we were active on GS.
Did you experienced some new problem with our tech support?

Then for the time needed to improve our stuff, we will do our best to make it happen soon but as I said due to the amount of work it will obviously take time.

Kevin
Old 9th November 2016
  #238
DSK
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DSK's Avatar
FWIW Never had any problems with support they have been pretty responsive.

Also SEM sounds fantastic for me (I use it alongside some heavyweight hardware synths with no reservations) and be assured the large number of people which have heard my results with it couldn't tell it was an emulation.

Especially after it's treated in the mix.
Old 9th November 2016
  #239
Lives for gear
 

Yeah, i've also only had very good experiences with the french guys, even with the free licenses i got with my Minibrute years ago. I still like the SEM V2 and also like the fact about not having to worry about CPU when playing 12 voices or stacking. To me the SEM is a nice, useful VA that sounds good, as is the Matrix.

Last edited by cowudders; 10th November 2016 at 03:12 PM..
Old 28th July 2020
  #240
Yul
Lives for gear
 

Got the Matrix 12 recently and I like it a lot. It's my go to VA right now.

Can anyone please help me with modulation ranges? Specifically with filter tracking.

I am looking to obtain 50% cutoff tracking.

I believe the way to go about this is with filter set to "on" in page 2 and then modulate cutoff with "keyboard" at -13 (need to check exact value).

Is there an easier way to get there?
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