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Vermona Perfourmer MKII, thoughts? Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 6th April 2015
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zahush76 View Post
You can simply use one of the voices to modulate the other (for example synth 3 to modulate synth 4). Choose sawtooth as the oscilator waveform, and choose one of the settings 'Hi' or 'Lo' which disconnects it from tracking the keyboard. The 'tune' knob becomes a speed knob and now you can use it to modulate either the pitch or the filter.
That's interesting, thanks for the info.

Would that mean synth 3 doesn't make any sound as it's modulating synth 4?

Is this possible in each mode too? Mono, Duo, Poly...

I guess the only gripe is you can't have all 4 synths with a Sawtooth shaped LFO, if I understand you correctly.
Old 6th April 2015
  #92
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Signifier's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jobinho View Post
That's interesting, thanks for the info.

Would that mean synth 3 doesn't make any sound as it's modulating synth 4?

Is this possible in each mode too? Mono, Duo, Poly...

I guess the only gripe is you can't have all 4 synths with a Sawtooth shaped LFO, if I understand you correctly.
Just use the saw-toothed LFO instead of the preceding voice to modulate?
Old 6th April 2015
  #93
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Signifier View Post
Just use the saw-toothed LFO instead of the preceding voice to modulate?
That's reverse sawtooth, I want sawtooth Sawtooth wave - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Old 6th April 2015
  #94
Gear Addict
 

Vermona PERfourMER mkii

@jobinho: I currently have that synth here for testing/evaluation. You can indeed use channel aftertouch to modulate the cutoff frequency of all voices that have been set to the respective midi channel (i.e. setting all voices to the same MIDI channel will give you that global filter control) . Modwheel is used to modulate the pulse width, btw.

The aftertouch controller is interpreted bipolar, i.e. 64=no change, 0=-64, 127=+63 (that's good).

MIDI velocity is mapped to VCA EG intensity (can be turned off).

With some (external) MIDI trickery, it is possible to map velocity to filter cutoff and/or pulse width (by remapping the controller data before it is sent to the synth).


My pro/contra list so far:

+ very good build quality (!)
+ filter sounds great
+ the pulse wave sounds particularly nice to me
+ snappy envelopes
+ unique concept for a poly
(indiv settings + audio in + osc out + audio out (or insert) per voice)
+ 4x audio-in
(to replace VCOs by external signals)
(the audio-ins are "hi-fi")

- very limited MIDI control
(basically just pitchbend/modwheel/channel aftertouch/note+velocity)
(the pitchbend range is ~+-5 semitones)
(the MIDI channel can be configured per voice)

- pitch control is a tad sensitive for my taste
(it does not snap in at 0 -- the pan knob does)

- master output is a bit noisy (indiv outputs are OK, though)
- audio inputs cannot be mixed with oscillators
(feedback or routing multiple oscs into one filter therefore requires an external mixer)
(this also would have allowed to pre-process the VCO signal with external gear, i.e. VCO out => other gear => ext in)
(a balance knob would have been ideal, 0=osc, 50%=osc+ext in, 100%=ext in)

- audio inputs are attenuated by ~-10dB
(measured at indiv output of first channel)
(chaining another channel attenuates by another ~-3dB)
(VCA EG set to "ON", resonance=0, cutoff all cranked up)


The 10db input attenuation is probably related to pro vs consumer line levels.
Maybe an external pre-amp can fix this so the filter can be driven with the same levels the internal oscillator generates.

All in all I must say that I quite like the tone of this synth.


Please find attached a "noodle" I made yesterday which shows the synth's "plucked string" sound character.

I used two foot pedals to modulate global filter cutoff and pulse width.

The "demo" was w/o any concept and never intended to be published (and yea, my keyboard playing sucks).

I also added some other sound snippets I made today.
Attached Files

01_vermona_guitar-05Apr2015a.mp3 (8.58 MB, 3858 views)

04_vermona_70s_bass-06Apr2015a.wav (2.14 MB, 2972 views)

05_vermona_sync_bass-06Apr2015a.wav (3.03 MB, 3303 views)

06_vermona_deep_bass-06Apr2015a.wav (1.55 MB, 2842 views)

07_vermona_fm-06Apr2015a.wav (2.99 MB, 3501 views)

08_vermona_unison_tri_and_saw-06Apr2015a.wav (2.87 MB, 3375 views)

09_vermona_polyseq-06Apr2015a.wav (8.16 MB, 3536 views)

02_vermona_extin_softsynth_test_short-03Apr2015a.wav (3.07 MB, 3434 views)

03_vermona_extin_softsynth_303ish-05Apr2015.wav (5.35 MB, 3611 views)

Old 7th April 2015
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jobinho View Post
That's interesting, thanks for the info.

Would that mean synth 3 doesn't make any sound as it's modulating synth 4?
When you're using one synth to modulate the other, it is up to you if you turn the volume knob down or keep it all the way up. Using one synth to modulate the other doesn't automatically cancell its audio output.
Old 7th April 2015
  #96
Gear Head
Quick question: I think it's possible to use the output of channel #1 as a LFO to modulate the pitch or cutoff of channel #2. This means that in theory you should be able to use VCF #1 to shape the waveform of the LFO, eg to smooth out a square and act as a slew limiter of sorts. However, I wonder how effective the VCF is at filtering sub-audio frequencies. Has anyone tried doing this, and did the result meet your expectations?

Edit: another question while I'm at it :-) Does the hard sync between channels use the pure oscillator signal or the channel output (ie VCO+VCF+VCA)? Is sync still available if you set the channel's source to be an audio input rather than the VCO?

Thanks!

Last edited by Gimbok; 7th April 2015 at 11:44 PM..
Old 8th April 2015
  #97
Gear Addict
 

More sound snippets

Yes, you can use the output of one channel to modulate the VCO or filter cutoff frequency of the next channel.
The "FM" knob of the next channel controls the modulation amount (signal of previous channel after VCF/VCA).

This works with low frequencies as well. I just tried it with a pulse wave, see attachment (10_vermona_filterfm_lfo_slew-08Apr2015.mp3)

Re hard sync: Sync is simply oscillator frequency dependent (I mean the master frequency).
You can use channel one ext-in and still enable sync on channel two but the ext-in signal has no influence on sync (just the osc frequency, even if the osc is not used otherwise).

If the slave channel (two) uses ext-in, sync does not work.


***


I created some more sound snippets today:

11_vermona_3osc_1filter-08Apr2015.mp3:
https://www.mediafire.com/?zkikr8e5apdi2j4

12_vermona-arps-08apr2015a.wav:


13_vermona-polyseq2-08apr2015.wav:


14_vermona-goastyle-08apr2015.wav:




"polyseq2" is my favourite so far. Each of the voices is routed to a different delay effect. Sounds quite funky


Maybe I'll keep this synth. It would be my first true analog (VCO/F/A) poly.

The architecture is very simple but the sound is very organic / "sizzling" (compared to soft synths or even my P08).

I would not recommed this as a poly for chords but for polyphonic sequences this is quite nice.
Attached Files
Old 9th April 2015
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsp804 View Post
11_vermona_3osc_1filter-08Apr2015.mp3:
https://www.mediafire.com/?zkikr8e5apdi2j4
How did you manage to get 3 oscillators thru one filter? Been trying to do this myself trying different options with the vco out/external in, or just out to external in and it doesn't work. When i take the vco out of synth1 to the ext in of synth2 i hear them both but synth1 considerably lower volume. If i take the 'out' of synth1 to the ext in of synth2 it puts it into drone mode, regardless of the vca setting.
So how did you manage to pull that off?
Old 9th April 2015
  #99
Gear Addict
 

I routed the "out"s of voices 2..4 into a mixer and the mixer output into "ext in" of voice 1.

You can also mix in the output of voice 1 again for feedback effects.
Old 9th April 2015
  #100
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zahush76 View Post
How did you manage to get 3 oscillators thru one filter? Been trying to do this myself trying different options with the vco out/external in, or just out to external in and it doesn't work.
Well, if you don't mind using voice outputs instead of VCO outputs out as you indicate, would it not be possible to:
1. setup osc sections of three voices as you like (probably with VCF/VCA just open since you would have preferred just osc outs)
2. route one of the main outputs (L or R) to the input of the fourth voice
3. harvest the sound you want from the individual output of the fourth voice?

As I understood from reading here, the output of the fourth voice will be cancelled in the main outs if you're using the individual out (though I could not find this in the manual). And theoretically, selecting audio input on the fourth voice should replace the sound of the fourth oscillator (however, you seem to say it still comes through, though only silent?).
I don't have a perfourmer, so I cannot test it...
Old 9th April 2015
  #101
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I asked Thomas from vermona and his answer was:
Quote:
Hello Tzachi,

that’s not possible with the PERfourMER MKII. If you take the signal out of synthesizer channel one and patch it into the input of synthesizer channel 2, you have to select EXT as waveform which means, that there is no internal signal anymore in channel 2.

Maybe with an external mixer you can achieve parts of this. If you i.e. patch VCO OUT of synthesizer channel 1 and two into a mixer and plug the sum into EXT IN of channel 2, you will have both oscillators through one filter and VCA.
Old 9th April 2015
  #102
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zahush76 View Post
I asked Thomas from vermona and his answer was:
I don't see how this answer eliminates my suggestion?
Old 9th April 2015
  #103
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasses View Post
Well, if you don't mind using voice outputs instead of VCO outputs out as you indicate, would it not be possible to:
1. setup osc sections of three voices as you like (probably with VCF/VCA just open since you would have preferred just osc outs)
2. route one of the main outputs (L or R) to the input of the fourth voice
3. harvest the sound you want from the individual output of the fourth voice?
Good thinking. I just tried that out and can confirm it works fine!
Old 9th April 2015
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasses View Post
I don't see how this answer eliminates my suggestion?
Who says i qouted Thomas as a contra to your suggestion...?
Old 9th April 2015
  #105
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In any case, obviously there's a difference between pure osc out and the complete voice out even if the vcf and vca are completely open.
Old 9th April 2015
  #106
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsp804 View Post
Yes, you can use the output of one channel to modulate the VCO or filter cutoff frequency of the next channel.
The "FM" knob of the next channel controls the modulation amount (signal of previous channel after VCF/VCA).
Thanks for the reply and sound examples, much appreciated!
Old 9th April 2015
  #107
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zahush76 View Post
Who says i qouted Thomas as a contra to your suggestion...?
No one did, and neither did I intend to. All I wanted to say was: don't let the answer from vermona keep you from trying it out. Off course VCF and VCA will color the sound, but given the architecture of the synth, it is the closest you will get without involving external gear.
Old 9th April 2015
  #108
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by zahush76 View Post
I asked Thomas from vermona and his answer was:
This confuses me somewhat. In order for the external input on channel 2 to be processed via the VCF you need to set Osc 2 Waveform to EXT IN, therefore disabling its VCO out - right?

This said, it sounds like it will work if you mix Osc1 and Osc2 and feed it into Channel 3.
Old 9th April 2015
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimbok View Post
This confuses me somewhat. In order for the external input on channel 2 to be processed via the VCF you need to set Osc 2 Waveform to EXT IN, therefore disabling its VCO out - right?

This said, it sounds like it will work if you mix Osc1 and Osc2 and feed it into Channel 3.
You'll have to use an external mixer to sum voices 1 & 2 and feed it into the ext in of voice 3. But to hear them you'll have to choose "ext" in the waveform selector, thus you disable the vco from voice 3.
Old 9th April 2015
  #110
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by zahush76 View Post
You'll have to use an external mixer to sum voices 1 & 2 and feed it into the ext in of voice 3. But to hear them you'll have to choose "ext" in the waveform selector, thus you disable the vco from voice 3.
Thanks, I got that. I was just confused because Thomas' quote suggested mixing voices 1 & 2 and feeding them into the ext in of voice 2. Probably just a typo.
Old 9th April 2015
  #111
Gear Addict
 

Rather than a mixer - do u think this is possible with a motu 828? Has an onboard digital mixer. So this will allow a global filter when in poly mode? Do the envelopes have any effect? Must try this when I get home!
Old 12th April 2015
  #112
Gear Addict
 

Yep, that's totally possible (w/ envs).

Since I may have left behind the impression that the Vermona is not so good at filtering external inputs, here's a better example for this:



The oscillator signal is being generated by a PC softsynth (Subtractor), PERfourMER takes care of filtering / envelopes.

This is a raw sound capture w/o any FX or EQing.
Old 16th April 2015
  #113
Here for the gear
 

Just thought I'd share this deal I came across for the perfourmer mk2. Someone is selling the cv gate version brand new for almost $350 off on eBay Vermona Perfourmer MKII, thoughts?LINK

Wish I could jump on it but won't have the money for awhile

Last edited by Whatever Will; 16th April 2015 at 03:51 PM..
Old 16th April 2015
  #114
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In the US the cv gate version sells for $2075 + shipping
Old 16th April 2015
  #115
Gear Head
hmmm...if $1899 is a good price in the US, then you guys are getting ripped off somewhere along the way. In the UK, you can buy one new for around £1000, which is about $1500 - and that's including British VAT.
Old 1st May 2015
  #116
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hey all, i just got my performer MKII yesterday loving it so far but i'm having some trouble please could some one help me? details of my problems can be found in this thread:


https://www.gearslutz.com/board/elec...l#post11012584

i hope you can help. kind regards trey.
Old 31st May 2015
  #117
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LEcH's Avatar
I love the sound of the Perfourmer. The first time hearing it got me hooked After lusting after it for a month, I made the decision to go for it, it should arrive in two days and it´s pretty unbearable to wait.
My idea of applying it to my existing setup (Microbrute, CP-251, some foogers, Volca keys and beats, some random external audio sources and a lot of guitar pedals.) is to use it as an 4 channel mixer, kinda. The idea is to tie, in my opinion, a quite complex (for a beginner like me) setup together. To give it this sort of an unified dna or something
My approach is to play, mix and record everything at the same time as a one take and make no overdubs.
I record with the Portastudio 244 so there are some mixing possibilities afterwards.
I try to keep my music as minimalistic as possible with altering results. So the Perfourmer is my attempt to help to create an organism-like system with a lot of inter-connected stuff going on CV and audio wise. Any thoughts? Similar plans? Thanks in advance!
Old 3rd August 2015
  #118
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LEcH's Avatar
After having the performer for a couple of months, I´ve come to the conclusion that my vision of using it mainly as a filter bank was kind of dumb because of the sounds it´s capable of producing. As it is the only poly analog I have experience of, I can´t complain about the extra hazzle since I´m used to it. Lately I´ve been experimenting with it as a mono synth and it´s so deep and endless it makes me laugh. So glad thomann was all out of karp odysseys and sub37s and I ended up with this
Old 3rd August 2015
  #119
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Signifier's Avatar
Think of it as an additive monosynth - those four voices with individual envelopes, oscillator and filter FM and sync just blow me away!
Old 4th August 2015
  #120
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LEcH's Avatar
That is a very well put quote. The fact that every time I begin doing something with the perfourmer, it´s a new journey ahead. I rarely even listen how I left it the last time but instead kinda reset it and start from a scratch. Besides the unique and experimental sounds, I´ve been trying to make it sound like marimba, strings, brass and of course drums. With two oscs pitched two octaves apart, with the triangle wave, it makes a pretty convincing marimba I love to repeat myself saying it´s the sound that made me must get one and the way it functions and unfolds is just so addictive. It´s a keeper. At the moment I have a MF ring mod on the left output channel and the lowpass and freq box on the right, followed by tc electronic flash back and hall of fame. Cross-patching Also I just added a dynacord echocord super 75 into the FX-loop of the mixer. Christ..
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