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My Impressions of the Integra 7 after a few weeks Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 12th August 2014
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keybdwizrd View Post
Then don't change any SRXes. As I think others have said, You have thousands and thousands of sounds available with the Integra without having to swap out an SRX. I guess that isn't good enough for you. You can't play a gig without using all of the Integra onboard sounds plus ALL of the SRX expansions?
.
Well, you can only load 4 SRX at a time, why Roland choose this limitation is beyond my understanding, maybe to leave room for an Integra 7 mk2, with 256 voice polyphony and all SRX loaded.
Old 12th August 2014
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post

...however, 20 seconds of load time to switch to an SRX card? That's pretty inexcusable in my book.
I'd use my XV-5050 more if I could change an SRX cards in 20 seconds, with no tools, never have to take it out of the rack... that would be sweet.
Old 12th August 2014
  #123
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
...however, 20 seconds of load time to switch to an SRX card? That's pretty inexcusable in my book. How does it work exactly? Once you've waited the 20 seconds does the entire card become instantly accessible? Do you have to wait another 20 seconds to get to a different card? What about back to the native Integra sounds? What if you create a preset that uses one of the SRX tones, are you waiting 20 seconds for each one of those presets?

Anyway, I think it would kind of bother me. 20 seconds to load a preset on a hardware synth that's not a sampler is a long time. Ignore the SRX cards? Well, you paid for them. If you couldn't implement their use in a good way, don't include them at all and shave off money off your ROMpler.
I was under the impression that the issue was that it takes 20 seconds to load a new SRX card, but that switching between sounds (whether internal or from any of the loaded SRXes) is virtually instantaneous. Perhaps I am mistaken.

I have read nothing but rave reviews of the Integra-7. I have a hard time believing that would be the case if it took 20 seconds to load a preset.
Old 12th August 2014
  #124
it doesn't even take 20 second to load a card - it takes like 5 seconds to load all four cards AND you can select 4 to load by default when you power on.

And there is NO delay in changing presets, even between the 4 completely different types of synths that are inside the Integra including the cards if they are already loaded.


The fact that you want the integra so bad, yet wont because you cant load more than FOUR of the expansion cards - you're trolling, you have to be. That's just ridiculous. Some of the cards only have like 35 presets anyway. So with 4 cards loaded I bet you are getting 90-95% of the presets. THAT'S NOT ENOUGH?

With 4 cards loaded it's effectively a full XV-5080 with 4 cards installed PLUS 3 other synths all in one with. Yet you choose to zone in on one little, tiny, ridiculous "limitation." You don't have 5-10 second free in a whole gig? I find that impossible to believe. SO ridiculous that you must be a yamaha employee or something - or you wear a helmet daily.
Old 12th August 2014
  #125
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post

...however, 20 seconds of load time to switch to an SRX card? That's pretty inexcusable in my book. How does it work exactly? Once you've waited the 20 seconds does the entire card become instantly accessible? Do you have to wait another 20 seconds to get to a different card? What about back to the native Integra sounds? What if you create a preset that uses one of the SRX tones, are you waiting 20 seconds for each one of those presets?
No, no. They only take a few seconds each to load and when you do they just show up in the list of presets like all the other presets and stay there. Once loaded there is no lag between presets, even from the cards. There is literally nothing at all wrong or slow about any of this stuff while using the Integra - analogattack is making a big deal of nothing.

There are also all of the Axial banks ( INTEGRA-7 | Axial )available for free. They stay in the unit in the user banks.
Old 12th August 2014
  #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keybdwizrd View Post
I was under the impression that the issue was that it takes 20 seconds to load a new SRX card, but that switching between sounds (whether internal or from any of the loaded SRXes) is virtually instantaneous.
It is instantaneous.

In fact, you can set your Integra to load whatever 4 SRX expansions you like at power-up, which takes maybe 20 seconds TOTAL, if not less. People complaining about the expansion load times are ridiculous, and probably can't be bothered to read a manual. Actually, I didn't even read the manual. I just looked at the options by hitting the MENU button. There was a time not that long ago when you had to open up a Roland unit (with tools) take it out of the rack and physically change expansion cards. THAT was a pain.
Old 12th August 2014
  #127
Quote:
Originally Posted by keybdwizrd View Post
Then don't change any SRXes.
Good idea, as long as it works practically. I tried an integra when they we're relatively new, and perhaps load times have been improved. My major problem is the lack of patch memory, which I find rather odd. I mean, my old A90 had 64 memory locations almost 20 years ago...

Quote:
Originally Posted by plikestechno View Post
You mean, thats how you troll?

Lets see some proof that youre not making this all up just to support an argument on an online forum.
Oh, now I'm a troll? The only reason I commit myself to this is that I LOVE the rack format and I'd hate to see racks disappear because of bad priorities by major companies. 10 years ago EVERY major workstation had a rack version, and nowadays when you can't easily fly with synths there are hardly any modules left. I'm not sure what kind of "proof" you want but I can assure you that I gig a lot. I'd love to have a rack unit for traveling and I hope the Integra can be it with just a few software fixes... No offense intended, just frustration speaking...
Old 12th August 2014
  #128
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I want to see a performance where you would honestly push the Integra to its limitations just buy using it in a gig.

Deal with what is rather than pray for what isn't. The Integra isn't even done yet. Have you forwarded all of your concerns to Roland?

The Integra is the best ROMpler rack out there period, by miles, right now.
Old 12th August 2014
  #129
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike vee View Post
No, no. They only take a few seconds each to load and when you do they just show up in the list of presets like all the other presets and stay there. Once loaded there is no lag between presets, even from the cards. There is literally nothing at all wrong or slow about any of this stuff while using the Integra - analogattack is making a big deal of nothing.
That's what I figured, unless there was something going on here that seemed really unusual.

The fact that you have a rack unit with THOUSANDS of sounds available at any given point across 16 discreet parts is very, very cool IMHO.

I started playing in bands with synths back in the day when there were ZERO presets. In between songs you had to program each sound on each synth FROM SCRATCH while the singer was talking, and hope you didn't screw up. When I finally added an Oberheim OB-1 to my setup - which had the ability to store EIGHT presets (woo hoo!) - I thought I'd died and gone to heaven!
Old 12th August 2014
  #130
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogaddict View Post
Good idea, as long as it works practically. I tried an integra when they we're relatively new, and perhaps load times have been improved. My major problem is the lack of patch memory, which I find rather odd. I mean, my old A90 had 64 memory locations almost 20 years ago...

OK, NOW I SEE THE PROBLEM. You have mis-understood the system all along. The number 64 is STUDIO SET slots, not user patches! Each type of synth (SNA, SNS, SND, PCMS, PCMD) has 512 user slots to save patches.

A Studio Set is a group of 16 slots/presets with midi channels - that's what you only get 64 of. So the number of saved, personalized presets on hand for a show = 16 x 64 = 1024. Loading a new studio set takes just a few seconds and then you have 16 more saved presets to use, if that's how you need to do it. Either that or just write down the preset number and change it instantly! Make a few notes on paper, Or, grap the iPAD app. The options are endless. It's only your thought process that is limiting, not the Integra. It seems just ONE studio set should be sufficient for any gig.
Old 12th August 2014
  #131
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogaddict View Post
I'd love to have a rack unit for traveling and I hope the Integra can be it with just a few software fixes...
Dude THERE IS NOTHING that needs to be fixed, stop saying that.
Old 12th August 2014
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike vee View Post
Dude THERE IS NOTHING that needs to be fixed, stop saying that.
Seriously. That guy is ridiculous.
Old 12th August 2014
  #133
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zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike vee View Post
No, no. They only take a few seconds each to load and when you do they just show up in the list of presets like all the other presets and stay there. Once loaded there is no lag between presets, even from the cards. There is literally nothing at all wrong or slow about any of this stuff while using the Integra - analogattack is making a big deal of nothing.

There are also all of the Axial banks ( INTEGRA-7 | Axial )available for free. They stay in the unit in the user banks.
Ah, OK, I knew that sounded wrong. I wonder why the hating?

Here's my question and since you're a hard core analog guy you'll probably have a handle on this. I always thought my XV-5050 was good on PCM tones and effects, but a bit weak on filter. I love the filters of my KingKORG, but now that I'm setting up my studio in a new home I'm realizing I've got to lose an entire keyboard stand and I'm pressed for space. All of the sudden the Integra 7 is looking less "nice but not for me" than it did yesterday but I can't seem to find any demos that show raw analog waveforms being smacked around by a filter.
Old 13th August 2014
  #134
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
Ah, OK, I knew that sounded wrong. I wonder why the hating?

Here's my question and since you're a hard core analog guy you'll probably have a handle on this. I always thought my XV-5050 was good on PCM tones and effects, but a bit weak on filter. I love the filters of my KingKORG, but now that I'm setting up my studio in a new home I'm realizing I've got to lose an entire keyboard stand and I'm pressed for space. All of the sudden the Integra 7 is looking less "nice but not for me" than it did yesterday but I can't seem to find any demos that show raw analog waveforms being smacked around by a filter.
It's so hard because all of the synth tones have 4 partials, each with it's own filter - i honestly haven't gotten to filter sweeps that are meant to be heard / automated yet on just one partial with say, a saw wave loaded. I can try some automation tonight with just one partial loaded and ill upload. Curios as well.
Old 13th August 2014
  #135
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The problem with the SRX limitation is not the loading times, it is the limit of 4. There is no way to mix and match SRX sounds from more than 4 different SRX. With the XV5080, I can use all four SRX plus four additional SRJV cards at the same time, plus 128 MB of users samples. One would expect that 12 years later, there would be more flexibility, not less. Yes, Roland gives you all SRX "for free", but the entry price is buying the Integra itself which is rather pricy.
Old 13th August 2014
  #136
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by depulse View Post
The problem with the SRX limitation is not the loading times, it is the limit of 4. There is no way to mix and match SRX sounds from more than 4 different SRX. With the XV5080, I can use all four SRX plus four additional SRJV cards at the same time, plus 128 MB of users samples. One would expect that 12 years later, there would be more flexibility, not less. Yes, Roland gives you all SRX "for free", but the entry price is buying the Integra itself which is rather pricy.
Then please just keep your XV5080.

I, personally, would be buying an Integra mostly for all of the new SuperNatural Acoustic tones plus built-in Supernatural Synthesizer with it's thousands of tones. I would also be hugely interested in the fact that it is 16-part multi-timbral with complete MFX for each part. It is great that Roland also gives me all of the 5080 legacy sounds as well, plus access to all of those boatloads of sounds from the SRX cards "for free". I like it. So do thousands of people who have already bought the Integra.

As an owner of the XV5080, you seem to want the Integra to be an exact reproduction of the 5080, plus all of the new stuff. Well it isn't. So if you can't live with the architecture of the Integra, then just keep your 5080.
Old 13th August 2014
  #137
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Well, I never sell any synths anymore, so yes, I would add the Integra to the XV5080, not replace it. And it's the supernatural sounds that are interesting to me, not the standard rompler or VA sounds.

The limits of 4 SRX is probably linked to your question in another thread about why synths have so little space for memories. Roland architecture doesn't seem to manage to address all SRX sounds at the same time. It was similar with Emulator 4 samplers, if one added ROM sound cards, one had to disable half of the RAM memory, simply because the sampler could only address a maximum of 128 MB.
Old 13th August 2014
  #138
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zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike vee View Post
It's so hard because all of the synth tones have 4 partials, each with it's own filter - i honestly haven't gotten to filter sweeps that are meant to be heard / automated yet on just one partial with say, a saw wave loaded. I can try some automation tonight with just one partial loaded and ill upload. Curios as well.
Yeah, I've looked around a lot and the closest I've been able to find to just a raw waveform and filter are some of the presets from that site you posted.

SH-101 Collection Pure powered by Synth Legends | INTEGRA-7 | Axial

TB-303 Collection Pure powered by Synth Legends | INTEGRA-7 | Axial

JUNO-60 Collection powered by Synth Legends | INTEGRA-7 | Axial

...and I have to say I'm not bowled over by these. If you told me it was a VSTi I'd believe you.

https://soundcloud.com/d16group/sets/lush-101-demos

Now, I compare those to the general sound of the KingKORG...

https://soundcloud.com/korg/sets/king_demos
Old 13th August 2014
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by depulse View Post
The limits of 4 SRX is probably linked to your question in another thread about why synths have so little space for memories. Roland architecture doesn't seem to manage to address all SRX sounds at the same time. It was similar with Emulator 4 samplers, if one added ROM sound cards, one had to disable half of the RAM memory, simply because the sampler could only address a maximum of 128 MB.
Yes, it was this thread that inspired the question in the other, although I kept this one out of it. The reason is that with patch memories, it seems (to me, at least) as though you're talking about a rather small amount of RAM needed to store presets. However, each SRX card is 64 MB (I think), and storing 12 of them would require 768 MB, because the SRX cards include waveform data.

Then there's the question as to why Roland didn't build the SRX waveforms and patches into the Integra as "permanent" sounds, like all of the other 5080 sounds, and everything else, and skip the whole business of having to load the virtual SRX cards into memory. My guess is that they simply bolted a bunch of the 5080 tech into the Integra, but eliminated the need to use physical SRX cards, per se, because ultimately the waveform data and patches are incorporated into the hardware.

Believe me, I do get your point, that Roland should have just engineered a way to have all of the SRX sounds available simultaneously. They took the Integra so far, why stop where they did? It would have monumental to have the Integra as is, but with all of the SRX sounds available with just a button press.

But this limitation would not keep me from buying the synth. Maybe it is because I had an XV5050 (which has all of the 5080 sounds) until recently, and sold it, because I just wasn't using it. I am using mostly software these days, and when I do need a more "rompler" type of sound I just get it from my J-50, which has a bunch of the SuperNatural Acoustic sounds and the entire SuperNatural Synth sound engine.

The Integra-7, however, is very attractive to me. I could see my entire studio existing of all of my software instruments, plus an Integra. The reason being that there really aren't software instruments available that have many of the Integra-type sounds available, and in such high quality. And the 16-part multi-timbral aspect of the Integra is hugely attractive to me. And I love many of the new SuperNatural sounds in my J-50.

But the problem is that my J-50 is not 16-part multi-timbral, and the Integra does not have a nice 76-key keyboard attached to it. :(
Old 13th August 2014
  #140
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
Yeah, I've looked around a lot and the closest I've been able to find to just a raw waveform and filter are some of the presets from that site you posted.

SH-101 Collection Pure powered by Synth Legends | INTEGRA-7 | Axial

TB-303 Collection Pure powered by Synth Legends | INTEGRA-7 | Axial

JUNO-60 Collection powered by Synth Legends | INTEGRA-7 | Axial

...and I have to say I'm not bowled over by these. If you told me it was a VSTi I'd believe you.

https://soundcloud.com/d16group/sets/lush-101-demos

Now, I compare those to the general sound of the KingKORG...

https://soundcloud.com/korg/sets/king_demos
Oh, I will be the first to admit this this is not going to be the best at emulating analog - I got it for the exact opposite reason. I have lots of real analogs so this was to be my only rompler and to serve a different purpose. Running lots of tracks outside the CPU, Sprinkles of subtle "live" instruments and legacy Roland digital presets (which certainly would include "synthy" patches.) However, when I run out of analogs for tracks I would have no problem resorting to the SNS patches (VA) for some finishing touches. Once the Integra is incorporated into my workflow (Im still getting familiar with it) it will probably be used absolute last for "synth" type patches and more for SNA sounds (strings and such which are just amazing) and also just weird digital stuff from the 5080 sounds. The SNS and SND will see the least use, most likely. TO be honest the VA in the Integra(SNS) sounds weird to me so far, for sure not as Good as Diva or something as far as analog emulation and to say they sound like the real Jupiter and stuff is ridiculous- however, that doesn't mean it's not usable. it just means that for sure it will take a back seat to my real analogs for main parts.

I see it like this, buy it first for the supernatural acoustic sounds - they are SUPERB, )I cannot believe how good they are, very organic and realistic and very non-digital sounding, plus, throw something like the softtube CL-1B on them and it's like heaven. the EPs and rhoades and stuff blend so nice with my analogs.) next for the 5080 and all the cards, then last for it's SNS VA. If you were making trance or something then the VA would be perfect but if you like organic analog type sound it would not be my first choice to be used specifically for that. although it certainly doesn't suck! Vintage legends is cool but it's definitely not wowing.

also, i like that you have to load the cards. it makes you stop for a second and think about that extra bonus you are getting. if they were just mixed in with the rest of the presets, i could see myself just surfing for days with no focus. kinda like when you put your WHOLE music libraby on your ipod, you get sick of it all in a week no matter how many songs are there - but if you purposely make custom playlists, you appreciate it more.
Old 13th August 2014
  #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike vee View Post
Oh, I will be the first to admit this this is not going to be the best at emulating analog - I got it for the exact opposite reason. I have lots of real analogs so this was to be my only rompler and to serve a different purpose. Running lots of tracks outside the CPU, Sprinkles of subtle "live" instruments and legacy Roland digital presets (which certainly would include "synthy" patches.) However, when I run out of analogs for tracks I would have no problem resorting to the SNS patches (VA) for some finishing touches. ...
I see it like this, buy it first for the supernatural acoustic sounds - they are SUPERB, )I cannot believe how good they are, very organic and realistic and very non-digital sounding...
Yeah, I hear you, though I have to scratch my head and ask why Roland isn't really kicking ass in the VA department. They let the SH line go to sh!t IMO.

So... I'm left as I was before. I agree the SuperNatural stuff really sounds fantastic and part of me does want it just for that... but the reason I'm looking at it is because I need to get rid of my KingKORG for space reasons. I didn't really care that the KK didn't do natural sounds all that well because I'm pretty happy with Kontakt. The more I listen to various demos (Nord, Kurzweil, Roland, Yamaha) the more I like my KingKORG. Maybe I just have to figure out a way to fit it in somehow... shame it doesn't have a software editor.
Old 13th August 2014
  #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
The more I listen to various demos (Nord, Kurzweil, Roland, Yamaha) the more I like my KingKORG. Maybe I just have to figure out a way to fit it in somehow... shame it doesn't have a software editor.
Yet. I have the feeling that we'll be seeing more development on the KK front. It appears to me that the start was slow and that a lot of people are finding out how good they really are.

As for the topic at hand, the Integra seems like a great synth. I did look up the SRX modules, though. $250 each?
Old 13th August 2014
  #143
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike vee View Post
OK, NOW I SEE THE PROBLEM. You have mis-understood the system all along. The number 64 is STUDIO SET slots, not user patches! Each type of synth (SNA, SNS, SND, PCMS, PCMD) has 512 user slots to save patches.

A Studio Set is a group of 16 slots/presets with midi channels - that's what you only get 64 of. So the number of saved, personalized presets on hand for a show = 16 x 64 = 1024. Loading a new studio set takes just a few seconds and then you have 16 more saved presets to use, if that's how you need to do it. Either that or just write down the preset number and change it instantly! Make a few notes on paper, Or, grap the iPAD app. The options are endless. It's only your thought process that is limiting, not the Integra. It seems just ONE studio set should be sufficient for any gig.

Ok, so if I understand correctly I can make 1024 custom setups that can be recalled via program change?! In that case, I'm entirely wrong and apologize for any confusion I've caused. I have a friend who does some work for Roland and he's had an Integra since they arrived. He told me that the Integra has 64 multi slots and that's it. Regarding the rest, I think the Integra seems like a great product, but not for me right now. Mileage may vary, but for me, being a full time gigger, I need certain things. Just because you can get through a gig with 16 sounds it doesn't mean that I can. Ridicule me all you want, but this is what I do and I do it well. Perhaps the term "fix" is a bit provocative, I should call it a "feature request" or something, but I see them as improvements that would make this a more attractive instrument. If you think it's a finished product, by all means, just go ahead and use it. I can't believe I'm the only one who finds certain implementations slightly limiting.
Old 13th August 2014
  #144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travst View Post

As for the topic at hand, the Integra seems like a great synth. I did look up the SRX modules, though. $250 each?

haha no dude, those were the physical cards for the XV-5080 - they are all included free in the Integra 7.
Old 13th August 2014
  #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike vee View Post
haha no dude, those were the physical cards for the XV-5080 - they are all included free in the Integra 7.

..... whew. It really does seem like a helluva deal.
Old 13th August 2014
  #146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travst View Post
..... whew. It really does seem like a helluva deal.
it is especially if you only pay like 1500
Old 13th August 2014
  #147
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
The more I listen to various demos (Nord, Kurzweil, Roland, Yamaha) the more I like my KingKORG. Maybe I just have to figure out a way to fit it in somehow... shame it doesn't have a software editor.
yea i wish every synth released was a rack with an insane editor. i chose the P12 module over the keyboard because it's so complex - the editor alone is like 6 pages and even though the synth has tons of knobs, they are definitely not per function.
Old 13th August 2014
  #148
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I'm weak in organs and piano sounds right now. Or rather pianos in general and I'm not toting my A-100 to play out. From what I'm hearing, the Integra sounds excellent in both departments.
Old 13th August 2014
  #149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travst View Post
I'm weak in organs and piano sounds right now. Or rather pianos in general and I'm not toting my A-100 to play out. From what I'm hearing, the Integra sounds excellent in both departments.
they are indeed - the EPs especially are very nice
Old 13th August 2014
  #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike vee View Post
they are indeed - the EPs especially are very nice
UJIIE almost went orgasmic over them. Really, really great. I am pretty much sold, this would replace a couple of my existing boards.
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