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Analogue vs Digital - Diva and OB8 test Keyboard Synthesizers
View Poll Results: Which synth is First in the 8 bar cycle?
Diva
92 Votes - 51.11%
OB8
88 Votes - 48.89%
Voters: 180. You may not vote on this poll

Old 22nd July 2014
  #151
Lives for gear
 

They are so close it doesn't even matter...
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Old 22nd July 2014
  #152
Here for the gear
 

The OB8 is first up. Not much doubt. Would like to be wrong.
Old 22nd July 2014
  #153
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by maisonvague View Post
I think this is what Swan was getting at when he wrote this:



There's a subjective element to all of this which is difficult to discount. In my own case, I much prefer the 'feel' of the second synth.

There are indeed so many aspects to this. And they cannot be seperated within simple sound clips. The second synth sounds more balanced/solid, but at the same time lacks the time domain definition of the first and comes over as restricted and muffled. A converter can do that to the signal, but I'm not sure this is the case here. Aging componenents, adjustment or simply design can account for a lot of variation - it might just be the sound of the OB8. Generally vintage synths compared to software sound more interesting/complex, more cohesive and alot more solid in the time domain at least. But also brighter (in an irradiant non-harsh way) and more defined. My Polaris demos in the thread I posted here a few years ago give a good impression.
Old 22nd July 2014
  #154
Gear Maniac
 

Great job matching things Swan. I think the starting example is Diva. When it switches to the next example there's is a bit more bass, slightly less higher frequencies, and the biggest difference - the bass has a lot more motion after 8 seconds. That's the only difference which stands out and makes me assume the second is the hardware?

I like the first version (Diva?) better. The small difference in higher frequencies makes the transients sound stronger. When the drums kick in, at the minute mark, it's impossible to hear any difference though.
Old 22nd July 2014
  #155
Gear Guru
 
Yoozer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWAN808 View Post
yes but in the poll is shows who answered what...
Ah - great! IIRC not all vBulletin polls did this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by living sounds View Post
Vintage synths do not automatically have to sound punchy and sparkly...
I get this but on the other hand I don't get this.

Their punch and sparkle - that's the biggest reason for using them in the first place. Because they deliver better sonics without extra effort and micro-tweaking, right? All the rest is gravy - dedicated control surface, investment, authenticity - but ultimately people are willing to live with say, a Rhodes Chroma with a bunch of membrane buttons and stepping sliders and an antique Apple for editing because the sound makes it all worth it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by living sounds View Post
But seriously, converters matter.
Yeah, but if a FF400 is now suddenly the difference between "sounds great" and "sounds like crap" - RME is not -that- bad, is it? There's a ****load of converters that will be worse, and people recorded enough analogs with 'm without anyone going "meh, this sounds like a plugin".

Anyway, the changelogs show no shocking sonic updates, so I don't think your initial impression of Diva is going to change much
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Old 22nd July 2014
  #156
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Rufuss Sewell's Avatar
I get a better feeling out of the first one. It makes me feel emotional, while the second does not.

As far as which is which... I love my analogs so I would hope that the first is OB8.

But every time I use Diva I'm almost insulted by how good it is. So... perhaps 1 is Diva. I've never played an OB8, just a Matrix 1000 so I'm not intimately familiar with it's sound.

Still: 1 = OB8
Old 22nd July 2014
  #157
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoozer View Post

Yeah, but if a FF400 is now suddenly the difference between "sounds great" and "sounds like crap" - RME is not -that- bad, is it?
To be honest, I think it's pretty bad. But I don't use my the Aurora's AD section because that messes with the signal as well. Converters that do minimal harm unfortunately are really pricy.
Old 22nd July 2014
  #158
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grumphh's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by living sounds View Post
To be honest, I think it's pretty bad. But I don't use my the Aurora's AD section because that messes with the signal as well. Converters that do minimal harm unfortunately are really pricy.
So, you can hear the differences between converters, but you cannot immediately tell which is software and which is analogue? :O

... heh
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Old 22nd July 2014
  #159
ok shall I do the big reveal soon?

we have 47 Diva 1st and 49 OB8 first...maybe I wait for 100...
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Old 22nd July 2014
  #160
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Eigenwert's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoGeeump View Post
The OB8 is first up. Not much doubt. Would like to be wrong.
Seems like today is your fortune day
Old 22nd July 2014
  #161
Gear Nut
 

I haven't voted. All I can tell is that the second one is a little quieter. After 30 seconds or so I lost track and could no longer tell there was any difference.

That said I was listening through just one earbud in an open office. I make no excuses. I don't care about analog vs digital. I just sold my P08 for a P12!
Old 22nd July 2014
  #162
Lives for gear
 
cr73645's Avatar
To me Diva is first...... damn! This thing sounds amazing! Way better than all VA currently on the market!!
Thank you for this test, really interesting one, since I don't really know which one is the Ob8. Great!
Old 22nd July 2014
  #163
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Eigenwert's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by living sounds View Post
To be honest, I think it's pretty bad. But I don't use my the Aurora's AD section because that messes with the signal as well. Converters that do minimal harm unfortunately are really pricy.
Dude, no offense, but weren't you saying the first one was the OB8? While it was really easy to tell that the first one is DIVA - listening just over the macbook speakers (and internal macbook converters?).
I'd say anyone picking the first as "OB8" should really NOT invest big money into converters. Several double-blind studies have been conducted showing only that the differences between "good" (=cheap) converters and the best converters do not account for a significant difference which can be perceived even by a majority of "experts". In contrast to this any expert can easily tell which synth is which in this example because of some side effects related to the digital domain of the first synth in the example.

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Old 22nd July 2014
  #164
142977
Guest
Great test!
I'd say the first one is OB8, though, both sounds are very good and pretty close.
VAs usually work well for static sounds, but how about a test with sounds that have a bit more movement in them?
That's an area where I feel analog synths really still have a leg up on subtractive softies.

I really like the feel of the track by the way. Sort of Moodymann meets Giorgio Moroder heh

EDIT: Tough, still I'm alternating between A & B… well done, SWAN.
Old 22nd July 2014
  #165
Gear Guru
 
Yoozer's Avatar
One more vote needed, then we've got 100 people!

edit: and we're there!

Attached Thumbnails
Analogue vs Digital - Diva and OB8 test-votes.png  
Old 22nd July 2014
  #166
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maisonvague's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eigenwert View Post
Dude, no offense, but weren't you saying the first one was the OB8? While it was really easy to tell that the first one is DIVA - listening just over the macbook speakers (and internal macbook converters?).
I'd say anyone picking the first as "OB8" should really NOT invest big money into converters. Several double-blind studies have been conducted showing only that the differences between "good" (=cheap) converters and the best converters do not account for a significant difference which can be perceived even by a majority of "experts". In contrast to this any expert can easily tell which synth is which in this example because of some side effects related to the digital domain of the first synth in the example.

A bold statement -- but I have to agree. Converters should be a nonissue here.
Old 22nd July 2014
  #167
Lives for gear
 

And 100.
Old 22nd July 2014
  #168
So the order cycling through is:

Diva -> OB8
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Old 22nd July 2014
  #169
Lives for gear
 

[QUOTE=Eigenwert;10278950
I'd say anyone picking the first as "OB8" should really NOT invest big money into converters.
[/QUOTE]


Yeah, they should stick to tape - just like all those classic records.
So many people with fantastic synths unable to use them...

One day I will own something expensive enough, until then I record onto 4 track

- no,...but that's ok though cos that's super hipster all that noise and limited bandwidth
Old 22nd July 2014
  #170


argh trying to get this bigger...

link to results timestamped

http://s30.postimg.org/6it4m663l/Scr...t_12_25_47.png

Some people were bang on the money with their descriptions (according to how I hear it) - and some were a bit off! I have my own opinions perhaps I'll share later - but I hope that the people who love analogue gear can see how close it can be - and I hope perhaps those who feel there is only confirmation bias or placebo - can see people like Maison Vague, Golden Beers, intuitionnyc, mikevee, ROBJB06 who I know like analogue synths - can get it right.

Its certainly pretty great that we have access to software that can sound so close to the real thing - for a fraction of the price. There may be squabbling over the small differences - and some people will find those differences more important. Personally I think that detail can translate to a lot when we are getting more into the areas of 'feel' and inspiration when making music - however - when all is said and done - when the audio is on the page - its also impressively close. In that sense - you could argue that both sides of the warring factions of Analogue vs Digital - are partially right in their view. Ultimately what is 'right' is what works for the musician in their own circumstances and tastes.
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Old 22nd July 2014
  #171
Gear Head
 

I will eat my shorts but only a square inch. More is not healthy.
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Old 22nd July 2014
  #172
Lives for gear
 

Very nice! I'm going to try one of these, but instead of recording on a computer, I will record both to cassette, then see if there is a more noticeable difference. I know when I play my prophet 5 and arturia prophet 5 through my pa, you can notice a difference, but when I record them both in my daw, they are very similar. So, I wonder if recording them to analog would make a difference.....I'll keep you posted.
Old 22nd July 2014
  #173
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Musicncars View Post
Very nice! I'm going to try one of these, but instead of recording on a computer, I will record both to cassette, then see if there is a more noticeable difference.
There will be a difference: a sh*t ton of mud and hiss.
Old 22nd July 2014
  #174
Lives for gear
 

So..

What are we going to do with these amateurs who got this simple test wrong?

At least their statements don't hold much weight anymore..
Old 22nd July 2014
  #175
Gear Head
 

I've got a big case of conformation bias. Any cure?
Old 22nd July 2014
  #176
Gear Guru
 
Yoozer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWAN808 View Post


argh trying to get this bigger...


Lots of image hosts (and GS's own attachment service) really do not like images with extreme aspect ratios. Better to have something 1:2 than 1:20.
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Old 22nd July 2014
  #177
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Synth Buddha's Avatar
I got it wrong, so I guess that means RME converters really do suck. Also, don't ask people to count bars. Everyone knows you can't hear the difference between software and hardware when you have to count bars.

****ing trick question asshole thread.
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Old 22nd July 2014
  #178
Gear Guru
 
Yoozer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teofunk View Post
What are we going to do with these amateurs who got this simple test wrong?
The next time they pipe up with "I can hear analog from a mile away!" we'll just post a link to this thread and the outcome heh

I got it wrong, but I don't mind, because I've never claimed I could heh I went with the first one because the PWM in the second one was more extreme (and PWM to zero is something I usually expect from plugins rather than HW)
Old 22nd July 2014
  #179
Jose Ramón Alvarado Villa
 
Don Solaris's Avatar
First synth sounded better. Second synth had slightly better PWM at the point where phases went thru zeros.
Old 22nd July 2014
  #180
Gear Head
 

Lol, I guess your post is sarcastic. (synth buddha)

What I did when comparing was to duplicate the track, remove the first 4 bars and then align.
I would then repeat a few seconds and solo back and forth.

Still got it WRONG though.
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