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Analogue vs Digital - Diva and OB8 test Keyboard Synthesizers
View Poll Results: Which synth is First in the 8 bar cycle?
Diva
92 Votes - 51.11%
OB8
88 Votes - 48.89%
Voters: 180. You may not vote on this poll

Old 3rd August 2014
  #1081
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Paddles?
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Old 3rd August 2014
  #1082
Ok, betterbox is gone.

In future, instead of debating amongst yourselves, please report and let us nuke them quicker!
Old 3rd August 2014
  #1083
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Ok, betterbox is gone.
Good! I hated his opinions.
Old 3rd August 2014
  #1084
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Naugo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by maisonvague View Post
(Off-topic)

Thanks for all the positive feedback regarding the Prophet-10 Elegy. A few people have contacted me with some questions so I thought I'd share the answers here. The phaser on the left channel is a Moog MF-103 and the delay on the right channel is an MF-104z. Concerning the music, it's an improvisation inspired by the works of Debussy, Ravel, JM Jarre and some others.

By the way, the balance between the two channels was off in the original recording. Below is a corrected version which better represents what I had in mind.

Cheers,

Clark
That **** was straight out of the twilight zone
Old 3rd August 2014
  #1085
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Analogue Mastering's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by coffee View Post
Good! I hated his opinions.
ROTFLMAO
Old 3rd August 2014
  #1086
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Synth Buddha's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Ok, betterbox is gone.

In future, instead of debating amongst yourselves, please report and let us nuke them quicker!
Great! I have a list of other people whose opinions I disagree with who I'd like to see banned to. Should I send you the list or just put it here?
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Old 3rd August 2014
  #1087
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synth Buddha View Post
Great! I have a list of other people whose opinions I disagree with who I'd like to see banned to. Should I send you the list or just put it here?
Well, I'm going with "not here" because that's exactly what I'm trying to prevent - off topic bickering!

Nothing to do with his opinions - he's already been banned and he's trying to re-register - which is forbidden under the forum rules.

Ironically, if he'd just served out his original ban, he'd be "legitimately" back by now. As it is...I can't see any time he'll be allowed back.

Back on topic now please?
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Old 3rd August 2014
  #1088
Lives for gear
What exactly would be 'on topic' for this thread at this point?
Old 3rd August 2014
  #1089
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWAN808 View Post
...
So SWAN, are you going to entertain us all by making any more tests?
Old 3rd August 2014
  #1090
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Zoolook's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Well, I'm going with "not here" because that's exactly what I'm trying to prevent - off topic bickering!

Nothing to do with his opinions - he's already been banned and he's trying to re-register - which is forbidden under the forum rules.

Ironically, if he'd just served out his original ban, he'd be "legitimately" back by now. As it is...I can't see any time he'll be allowed back.

Back on topic now please?
Apologies for losing my cool...

The topic I was trying to steer towards, is why are some synths only judged in the context to how they sound Vs other synths. Why should Diva sound like a Juno 106, or even an OB X? I vaguely remember the thin criticisms of the early Japanese synths in the 70's being 'criticized' for "not sounding like a Moog" or "not sounding like a Prophet 5". I remember the Korg MS20 being unfairly compared to the Mini Moog, and the Yamaha CS80 being compared to modular synths at the time (I kid you not).

There are many excellent things you can do with fairly modest virtual instruments, as long as you accept them for what they are. Sure, something selling and marketing as a virtual version of a classic (like the Arturia 2600v) then yes, compare and criticize. Otherwise, I don't see the point. I for one am infinitely grateful that not every synth sounds like a Mini moog.
Old 3rd August 2014
  #1091
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoolook View Post
The topic I was trying to steer towards, is why are some synths only judged in the context to how they sound Vs other synths. Why should Diva sound like a Juno 106, or even an OB X? I vaguely remember the thin criticisms of the early Japanese synths in the 70's being 'criticized' for "not sounding like a Moog" or "not sounding like a Prophet 5". I remember the Korg MS20 being unfairly compared to the Mini Moog, and the Yamaha CS80 being compared to modular synths at the time (I kid you not).

There are many excellent things you can do with fairly modest virtual instruments, as long as you accept them for what they are. Sure, something selling and marketing as a virtual version of a classic (like the Arturia 2600v) then yes, compare and criticize. Otherwise, I don't see the point. I for one am infinitely grateful that not every synth sounds like a Mini moog.
I couldn't agree more.

There is a significant, and certainly very vocal, segment of the synthesizer-playing universe, that seems to be focused completely on vintage analog synthesizers. For whatever the reasons, these are the only sounds they want - the sounds that are the holy grail of all sounds. To that end, it seems as though Urs created Diva to provide a software instrument that is capable of providing "those sounds" in a $179 package. He has done an admirable job.

Fortunately, however, there are countless thousands of other musicians (including me) who consider "vintage analog sounds" to be only one of many types of sounds available for creating music. Let the others be chasing Oberheims and Model Ds... I wouldn't trade Omnisphere for any of them.
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Old 3rd August 2014
  #1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by keybdwizrd View Post
So SWAN, are you going to entertain us all by making any more tests?
Ive done more audio but decided to sit on it for a while...I think we could all use a break from these A/B tests and do some other music! I had a chat with Urs about it instead and he's roped me into his beta team...so Im back to obsessing about analogue compressors for the time being...
Old 3rd August 2014
  #1093
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Zoolook's Avatar
@ hero... you keep using the word 'prove' (should be 'proof' in most cases, but never mind that), and then use language like 'creamy and fat' to describe a sound differentiation between a Roland and a Moog. Your arguments are inconsistent and make no sense, and you're also arguing against things that have not been stated on this forum. I can't recall anyone saying or even remotely implying that plugins can 'replace' vintage hardware synths. On the contrary, most have stated they are complimentary if anything - good for different use-cases. You made a comment about 'preset player fraction' (I assume you meant 'faction') in relation to Roland classic synths... you know the old Rolands (Juno 6, TR808, TB303 etc) didn't have presets? You seem to be writing with glowing remanence about instruments you've never used.

The post above is pure nonsense - what is 'cult [abilities]'? It's argumentative flame-bait - and quite honestly it would be good to have discussions about the relative merits of some VST's without having to trawl through comments such as yours.
Old 4th August 2014
  #1094
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..
Old 4th August 2014
  #1095
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grumphh's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by keybdwizrd View Post
For whatever the reasons, these are the only sounds they want - the sounds that are the holy grail of all sounds.
...i agree with the rest of your post too, but this is what i focus on:

The problem is not even that some people prefer those analogue sounds for themselves - i can absolutely understand liking a vintage hardware instrument - the problem is that they seem to think that analogue is the solution to every problem in music - and that buying analogue gear can make your music better.

But it doesn't - if you make ****ty electronic music itb, buying an analogue synth won't make you music less ****ty - because the tone generating circuitry wasn't and isn't the problem in the first place.
(And if you make great music itb, why even care about analogue synths?)

...so please, analogue diehards - stop your relentless droning on (ha!) about the superiority of analogue and we won't have to ridicule you quite as hard as we have in this thread the next time this pops up
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Old 4th August 2014
  #1096
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Westlaker's Avatar
The so-called "vintage analog diehard" is a ghost. A red herring. A straw man. Can anyone point me to a SINGLE "vintage analog diehard" on this forum who doesn't also use modern and/or digital synthesizers?

Seems to me that the loudest and most insistent contributors in this thread -- and increasingly in this whole subforum -- are those who invent such people out of thin air and then rail against them.
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Old 4th August 2014
  #1097
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bil_g's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by grumphh View Post
...so please, analogue diehards - stop your relentless droning on (ha!) about the superiority of analogue and we won't have to ridicule you quite as hard as we have in this thread the next time this pops up
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Old 4th August 2014
  #1098
Here for the gear
 

Without looking ahead, I'll guess that #1 is Diva and #2 the OB-8.

I own an OB-8 and would never know the difference in a mix. The main discrepancy I hear is in the brass, which on #1 sounds brighter and has a "slippery" attack. That could be a dead giveaway, but I found the OP-X Pro VST to be brighter than the OB-8 with similar patches (never used Diva). I'm only going with #2 because I hear a tad more of my OB-8's buzzy character in the background, despite #1 being closer in other minute ways. I also swear to hear some almost unnoticeable crackles/drops like mine gets.

Hats off to OP either way, incredibly close!
Old 4th August 2014
  #1099
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grumphh's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CfNorENa View Post
The so-called "vintage analog diehard" is a ghost. A red herring. A straw man. Can anyone point me to a SINGLE "vintage analog diehard" on this forum who doesn't also use modern and/or digital synthesizers?

Seems to me that the loudest and most insistent contributors in this thread -- and increasingly in this whole subforum -- are those who invent such people out of thin air and then rail against them.
Ah, you try to turn the tables? heh

No dice - the VAD does exist - and is a very vocal subspecies on music fora.

Like other vintage fetishists, the VAD doesn't really make music other than sporadically, he is a collector with strong feelings about the gear he collects.

And he does not hesitate to share those feelings, because he is on a mission*.

Analogue this, analogue that.
Any question asked is usually answered with "you need analogue", no matter what the guy asking the question actually may need.
Analogue is always "better" of course, preferrably described in very vague and subjective terms - and usually connected to pride in ownership of one or several of these antiquated items (the value of which has more to do with rarity than actual sound).
And furthermore all this is usually combined with a deep love of the blandest of 80's pop music and cheap action movie scores - which in itself should be enough to warn people about the massive pile of BS that is spewed forth...



...but hey - their gushings about the supposed benefits of analogue has made the value of my JP4 triple over a short number of years, so maybe i should just be silent, and let prices rise ...


...so, ermm, guys, did you know that the JP4 is responsible for some really fine pop music arpeggios? You can't recreate those without one...


* Honestly, i still haven't found out what the mission is, but either it has to do with driving up the value of vintage gear, propagating knowledge of tasteless 80's music or maybe simply reinforcing ones own belief in that whatever the object of your collection is, it is better than what the others have...?
Old 4th August 2014
  #1100
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Seccione's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by grumphh View Post
And furthermore all this is usually combined with a deep love of the blandest of 80's pop music and cheap action movie scores - which in itself should be enough to warn people about the massive pile of BS that is spewed forth...
Soo, you must listen to what to be eligible to comment in GS?

EDM? Bro Step?



Sorry I'd choose Yazoo anytime.
Old 4th August 2014
  #1101
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danielb's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by CfNorENa View Post
The so-called "vintage analog diehard" is a ghost. A red herring. A straw man. Can anyone point me to a SINGLE "vintage analog diehard" on this forum who doesn't also use modern and/or digital synthesizers?

Seems to me that the loudest and most insistent contributors in this thread -- and increasingly in this whole subforum -- are those who invent such people out of thin air and then rail against them.
Actually yes, they do exist. I don't think there are very many who are genuine analogue obsessives, but they are real.

I have actually been told in the past that only analogue synths should be on-topic in this forum, and that someone (who shall remain nameless) had no interest in discussing any integration of digital and analogue synths.

He was actually quite rude about it.

I have also been told that someone in not interested in any synth that was manufactured after 1983.

D.
Old 4th August 2014
  #1102
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grumphh's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seccione View Post

Sorry I'd choose Yazoo anytime.
I rest my case.

...i mean, never mind the cheesiness of revisiting the accidents of your youth - structurally and compositionally this makes EDM stand out as being a long string of compositional masterpieces...

Old 4th August 2014
  #1103
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danielb's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by grumphh View Post
I rest my case.

...i mean, never mind the cheesiness of revisiting the accidents of your youth - structurally and compositionally this makes EDM stand out as being a long string of compositional masterpieces...

Nonsense.

Yazoo can't be crap, they used an SCI Pro One!

D.

PS Actually I used to love Yazoo, but I think they haven't really stood the test of time. I can't really listen to them any more, except in small doses.
Old 4th August 2014
  #1104
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What would you recommend to replace it right now?Honest question.I mean anything.Something with the throb and gristle of the old tracks.
Old 4th August 2014
  #1105
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danielb's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goa-Dubs View Post
What would you recommend to replace it right now?Honest question.I mean anything.Something with the throb and gristle of the old tracks.
Are you suggesting there's been no good electronic music since Yazoo?

D.
Old 4th August 2014
  #1106
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erdi's Avatar
 

This thread is absolutely useless..
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Old 4th August 2014
  #1107
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Zoolook's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by erdi View Post
This thread is absolutely useless..
Yes, but if we'd had it in person, analogue style, it would have been so much better.
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Old 4th August 2014
  #1108
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adydub's Avatar
 

Diva sounds great, but I don't find myself using it that much because of the UI. It's hard to put my finger on what I don't like about it, but it just feels 'unmusical' - I always seem to find myself getting frustrated because it's fiddly and annoying. I can't just lose myself in sound design. Sure this is a problem with all softsynths to some extent, but there's something about Diva that's especially bad.

It's probably partly down to the quirks from mixing and matching different synth elements meaning there's no unified look and feel. And partly down to the the original synths having straight forward workflow that don't really integrate with the extra features and the mix'n'match components. Also down to the modulation options falling somewhere between the original synths and a more modern matrix approach, so ending up lacking a clear or consistent approach.

I tried creating control maps from different surfaces. I thought my Korg MS20 controller should work well for the Diva MS20 models, but it was actually a complete disaster. Trying to map to my Novation SL was also an exercise in frustration.

I guess the point I'm getting to is that sound quality really isn't the issue here. If I had a physical OB8 in front of me, I'd have had massive fun times programming the hell out of it by now. I've only programmed a handful of sounds in Diva, and not really enjoyed the process.
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Old 4th August 2014
  #1109
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Sharp11's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by grumphh View Post
I rest my case.

...i mean, never mind the cheesiness of revisiting the accidents of your youth - structurally and compositionally this makes EDM stand out as being a long string of compositional masterpieces...

Wow, that's really horrid ...
Old 4th August 2014
  #1110
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danielb's Avatar
Yazoo in 2011. Not a Pro One in sight.

"Don't Go" is at 9:00:

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