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Analogue vs Digital - Diva and OB8 test Keyboard Synthesizers
View Poll Results: Which synth is First in the 8 bar cycle?
Diva
92 Votes - 51.11%
OB8
88 Votes - 48.89%
Voters: 180. You may not vote on this poll

Old 25th July 2014
  #841
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antto's Avatar
Vascillate: so like.. why use a software emulation of an analog synth, when i can just reach down my pocket and grab 2000 bucks and (eventually) buy the actual analog synth, huh? ;]

hardware digital is the perfect example of how digital (software) can equally compete with analog
with software it's easeir to make perfect/clean sounding stuff, and there are ugly side effects like aliasing
with analog circuits it's harder to make perfect/clean sounding stuff, and there are other kinds of ugly side effects, like instability, and whatnot

can analog circuits emulate a digital (software) synth? - i highly doubt, it could be uber hard and probably no one's gonna try such a thing
can software emulate an analog? - yes, with enough codez and CPU powah ;]
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Old 25th July 2014
  #842
lol - there is no way Id ever do a stupid voice...some of you guys really need to be spoon fed if you cant deal with a 4 bar phrase and need some dorkish announcement to make it clear...you dont have much chance of hearing the finer details of audio if you need that......

you have the wav file - you can loop it or deal with it any way you like...
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Old 25th July 2014
  #843
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Thunderkyss's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by living sounds View Post
I've read this argument in regards to virtual synths vs. analog ones as early as 1997. It wasn't true then, and it isn't true now.

If I find the time I'll post a few examples for "replication".
I agree 100%, we look back at the choices from 1997, & would hardly consider them viable options for analog substitutes. Could you get good useful sounds out of them? Sure.

But how many of them would hold a candle to today's virtual synths?

17 years from now, are we still going to be talking about Diva?

Try finding a 12 voice Nord Lead for less than $600, it ain't easy. I couldn't get $200 for Logic Audio 4.6.2, much less the soft-synths bundled with it.

Hopefully Urs will be around doing his thing & rolling in dough, but I doubt he'll be selling copies of Diva in 2031.
Old 25th July 2014
  #844
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWAN808 View Post
lol - there is no way Id ever do a stupid voice...some of you guys really need to be spoon fed if you cant deal with a 4 bar phrase and need some dorkish announcement to make it clear...you dont have much chance of hearing the finer details of audio if you need that......

you have the wav file - you can loop it or deal with it any way you like...
LoLz...right? In case you've never DJ'd or been a dancer, this is the most important skill, counting:

1,2,3,4....2,2,3,4.....3,2,3,4....4,2,3,4....
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Old 25th July 2014
  #845
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BlueeyedBlond's Avatar
 

yap two stab parts for four bars, so "floating" is obvious, was detuning turned down in diva's trimmers page?
Old 25th July 2014
  #846
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Sharp11's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by draven5 View Post
(friend comes over)

"i brought some beer. you ready to jam"

(they walk into the next room full of gear. He goes over to the computer. Diva is loaded.)

"you should see these cool patches!!!"

(moves mouse)

"hey man i thought we were going to tweak knobs and stuff, play some keyboards and jam? what about all this gear you have"

(points to Diva)

"hey this sounds the same so no point. I selling all that stuff now, I can do it with softaware"

"are you out of your fing mind?"

"no listen, I did a test"

"who the f cares, lets play some keyboards!"
Why not twiddle knobs on a keyboard controller?
Old 25th July 2014
  #847
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Eigenwert's Avatar
Haha, c'mon swan, gimme an a cappella of those shouts!
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Old 25th July 2014
  #848
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Quote:
Originally Posted by payt View Post
Just to add to the analog vs digital battle: here's Roland's SH101 plugout in action. I don't know about you guys, but I think it's pretty convincing. If all their plugouts are going to be of this quality, well then bring on that SH 2 and a Jupiter 6/8 please


Meh. Definitely won't sell my SH-101 for this. The low end punch and ultra-fast envelopes of the original are missing, and the mid and high end sounds cluttered and harsh.
Old 25th July 2014
  #849
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Acid Mitch's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eigenwert View Post
Haha, c'mon swan, gimme an a cappella of those shouts!
In keeping with the thread , he should do a version with his own voice and one with Vocaloid to see if we can hear a difference.
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Old 25th July 2014
  #850
VST
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VST's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDGEK8D View Post
LoLz...right? In case you've never DJ'd or been a dancer, this is the most important skill, counting:

1,2,3,4....2,2,3,4.....3,2,3,4....4,2,3,4....
So whats more of an intrusion? constantly counting in you head with your own voice or having the test indicate where you are somehow only once at the start of each phrase? Again, you can't even skip around and it doesn't have to be a dorky voice, it could be a different one shot instrument for each phrase. I understand this is moot if the files are available separately.

Just suggestions

P.S. I personally don't need to be spoon fed, And I DID hear the finer details and identified correctly.
Old 25th July 2014
  #851
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp11 View Post
Why not twiddle knobs on a keyboard controller?
Because he already has his mind made up.
Old 25th July 2014
  #852
Urs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueeyedBlond View Post
yap two stab parts for four bars, so "floating" is obvious, was detuning turned down in diva's trimmers page?
The first is Diva, not OB-8. So I guess Diva's trimmers page is innocent this time
Old 25th July 2014
  #853
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Sharp11's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acid Mitch View Post
Wasn't it polyphony,patch storage, tuning stability,portabiltiy, MIDI and digital being the next big thing ,as much as some people being tired of the sound ?
The Jx3p came out in early 1983 - I had one of the first ones. It had (basic) midi, patch storage ( I don't remember if I could overwrite the presets or not) and 6 voice polyphony. Multi-timbral was still a ways off. Around the same time, a friend of mine bought a DX7 - when I first heard it, I knew I had bought the wrong keyboard - it was clear to me the DX7 was the sound of what was to come. Listen to recordings made after 1983 - it's like the dividing line.

So no, I don't think those things were the primary issue, it was the sound. As the popularity of digital synths grew, they got the bulk of the R&D so they got all the cool convenience features.

Early analog synths on recordings was pretty awful, in my opinion - starting about 1969, you'd hear wheezy lines played on Moogs trying to emulate clarinets and such. Then "Switched On Bach" was supposed to light the world on fire, but to me, it sounded thin, dry and lifeless.

It was later when analog evolved - we all had our favorite artists who would take the sound of analog to wonderful places - for me it was Stevie Wonder, Joe Zawinul, Lyle Mays, Giorgio Moroder, some of the cool film scores of the day like "Tubular Bells" and later the "Cosmos" series on PBS ... but when we first heard FM, we realized a new complexity of sound had developed and had arrived - everyone was pretty excited by the possibilities. Especially the concept of complex modulation routings and multi-stage, time-based envelopes.

The FM synth sound eventually became pretty banal - you'd hear the same stupid rhodes sound on every recording, but once the really good digital stuff from Kurzweil, Korg and Roland began to hit the market by the early 90's - it was an exciting time for sound design - big, rich and complex sounds that could evolve over time became affordable (unlike the Synclavier of the mid 80's, of which I was hired as a programmer, but could never afford to buy myself).

I bought my K2500 in 1995. Unless you have a lot of working experience with one, you can never know how complex and versatile a machine it is, in fact, it's still capable of the best sounds, especially layered with something else, you could still create an entire modern film score with one. I still have mine.

It's difficult for me to reconcile the prices of some of the low budget synths of the 80's; like the Junos and SH 101's against the K2500's and K2600's, or Roland JD990's and Korg Wavestations that are out there at decent prices, and are capable of analog timbres as well as so many more interesting, complex and timeless sounds - for years to come.
Old 25th July 2014
  #854
Registered User
I compose music in many different styles, and I'd guess this tune isn't consistent with what many people here listen to. But for some people, it may be.

In any case, here's something I wrote and recorded a few weeks ago, using only Diva presets (perhaps slightly tweaked) and drums from a software rompler.

I didn't set out to emulate any analog synths or anything like that... I simply played around with some Diva sounds and this is the result.

Old 25th July 2014
  #855
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Sharp11's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by living sounds View Post
Meh. Definitely won't sell my SH-101 for this. The low end punch and ultra-fast envelopes of the original are missing, and the mid and high end sounds cluttered and harsh.
You got all that from a YT video?
Old 25th July 2014
  #856
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Sharp11's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by keybdwizrd View Post
I compose music in many different styles, and I'd guess this tune isn't consistent with what many people here listen to. But for some people, it may be.

In any case, here's something I wrote and recorded a few weeks ago, using only Diva presets (perhaps slightly tweaked) and drums from a software rompler.

I didn't set out to emulate any analog synths or anything like that... I simply played around with some Diva sounds and this is the result.

Nice job Mike, I especially like the second one in terms of its analogality ....
Old 25th July 2014
  #857
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Sharp11's Avatar
 

Honestly, this thread has turned into a great promo for Diva, I wonder if Swan is a secret shill
Old 25th July 2014
  #858
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BlueeyedBlond's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urs View Post
The first is Diva, not OB-8. So I guess Diva's trimmers page is innocent this time
That's cool, So I liked diva more than HW, lol
Second part sounds like a one big trouble to mix, because voices go in and out, it would require some "massaging" to make that thing stand out, in other words it sounded to me like s....., though I didn't say it, because I believed it was Diva, didn't want to offend anyone haha
Sincerely believed that that was Diva, nice to know that I liked it more, less lust for hardware, then.
Old 25th July 2014
  #859
Quote:
Originally Posted by vstace View Post
So whats more of an intrusion? constantly counting in you head with your own voice or having the test indicate where you are somehow only once at the start of each phrase? Again, you can't even skip around and it doesn't have to be a dorky voice, it could be a different one shot instrument for each phrase. I understand this is moot if the files are available separately.

Just suggestions

P.S. I personally don't need to be spoon fed, And I DID hear the finer details and identified correctly.
ok dude fair enough - nice one on getting it right...the counting should become fairly subconscious for such a standard measure I hope...Anyways Ill probably do straight up seperate files next time...
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Old 25th July 2014
  #860
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danielb's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp11 View Post
but when we first heard FM, we realized a new complexity of sound had developed and had arrived - everyone was pretty excited by the possibilities. Especially the concept of complex modulation routings and multi-stage, time-based envelopes.
I remember my open-mouthed amazement when I first head a DX7...

The field of electronic music then was forward looking and innovative.

When I came back to it a few years ago, I was a little shocked to find that it had become backward-looking and conservative, drenched in nostalgia and constantly trying to recapture some supposed golden age.

Analogue is great but using ONLY analogue is boring. I still think that we are living in THE golden age of electronic music gear, but I think I might be in the minority.

D.
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Old 25th July 2014
  #861
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp11 View Post
Honestly, this thread has turned into a great promo for Diva, I wonder if Swan is a secret shill
LOL, I've wondered the same thing. But not really.

Personally, I hope it helps Urs and his company sell more copies and make more money. They do good work. I hope he is successful and makes more cool synths to make music with.
Old 25th July 2014
  #862
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Musicncars View Post
Why vote if you think you're wrong? Makes no sense. Why stop there? Whenever you vote, and have a choice of two "items", isn't it always going to be 50/50, no matter what the outcome, it will be a guessing game? At least, that is what you are implying.
You really don't understand simple statistics?

The point is that the people who voted couldn't reliably identify one or the other as being digital - hence the 50/50 result.

The same as flipping a coin a hundred times - there is an equal chance of getting heads or tails with every flip - and after hundred repeats the results should be 50/50, or as close as this poll.

...and nobody who voted did so because they expected to be wrong - they voted for what they thought was the analogue synth.
Old 25th July 2014
  #863
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyklane View Post
Actually, the poll does NOT state that people can't tell a difference....the poll states that these people were not reliably able to ascribe those differences to their proper source!
Thank you
Old 25th July 2014
  #864
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grumphh View Post
You really don't understand simple statistics?

The point is that the people who voted couldn't reliably identify one or the other as being digital - hence the 50/50 result.

The same as flipping a coin a hundred times - there is an equal chance of getting heads or tails with every flip - and after hundred repeats the results should be 50/50, or as close as this poll.

...and nobody who voted did so because they expected to be wrong - they voted for what they thought was the analogue synth.
I voted according to the question asked, and was correct. So, apparently, I could " reliably" pick the digital from the analog, and furthermore, I was not alone, as 49 percent were able to distinguish, as well.
You are basing the stats purely on a hit or miss level, all the while. Not giving any thought, or credit, to the fact that, maybe people actually can tell the difference.
Or put another way, what determined whether or not a person chose a or b? If a person could not tell the difference between the diva or OB8 example, then it should have been more like 75 -25. In favor of being wrong. It wasn't, which must imply that almost 50 percent of the voters actually could hear the difference. Thus the near 50-50 turn out.
Old 25th July 2014
  #865
Gear Addict
 

I can't believe so many people had a problem with a 4 bar loop. You shouldn't have to count the bars. You can feel the 4 bar loop - the phrase indicates when it's about to repeat. I personally like 1 file better than multiple files.
Old 25th July 2014
  #866
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Synth Buddha's Avatar
Nobody had problems counting ffs. It's just a variation on the "I'm listening on my laptop right now" excuse. An original one, I'll admit that.
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Old 25th July 2014
  #867
yeh that freaked me out when i read it too
Old 25th July 2014
  #868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Synth Buddha View Post
Nobody had problems counting ffs. It's just a variation on the "I'm listening on my laptop right now" excuse. An original one, I'll admit that.
If people can't count or feel the bars, they need to go back a couple of steps. Lol.
Old 25th July 2014
  #869
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Synth Buddha View Post
Nobody had problems counting ffs. It's just a variation on the "I'm listening on my laptop right now" excuse. An original one, I'll admit that.
I listened on my iPad, and didn't use it as an excuse.
Old 25th July 2014
  #870
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redloheb's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by grumphh
You really don't understand simple statistics? The point is that the people who voted couldn't reliably identify one or the other as being digital - hence the 50/50 result.
Well, result means that 50% could still reliable identify and enjoy diva
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