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Analogue vs Digital - Diva and OB8 test Keyboard Synthesizers
View Poll Results: Which synth is First in the 8 bar cycle?
Diva
92 Votes - 51.11%
OB8
88 Votes - 48.89%
Voters: 180. You may not vote on this poll

Old 23rd July 2014
  #361
Gear Guru
 
fiddlestickz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWAN808 View Post
So the order cycling through is:

Diva -> OB8
woooooHOOOOOOOO...!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddlestickz View Post
I just had a listen on my beloved LSR 305's nice and loud, the first one is slightly brighter so I would say it's the DIVA, the second one had a touch of warm dullness about it, mind you I don't really know what an Oberheim sounds like as it's not a synth I'm overly familiar with, but my vote is Diva first due brighter sound and OB8 second due to slightly duller sound.
I still got good ears, but seriously I give all the credit to my ability to hear differences to my monitoring system, ever since I've started using the LSR 305's sounds have just opened up and become incredibly revealing...well done JBL..!!
Old 23rd July 2014
  #362
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
but seriously I give all the credit to my ability to hear differences to my monitoring system, ever since I've started using the LSR 305's sounds have just opened up and become incredibly revealing...well done JBL..!!
...double bonus for me as in that previous life I mentioned I was a systems engineer on the LSR series
Old 23rd July 2014
  #363
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Me being correct validates my analog collection.
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Old 23rd July 2014
  #364
142977
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Proton View Post

Now we're talking!
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Old 23rd July 2014
  #365
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Westlaker's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by keybdwizrd View Post
I think if you take modulars into account, the red sliver gets a bit bigger. But the general point is surely correct.

And what's more, the digitals can at least emulate that analog red sliver in a way that the analogs can't. Most of that blue is simply out of reach of subtractive analog synthesis.

All of that said, I still think -- even after this test! -- that the analog does the red sliver better than the digital emulation of it, and that a large chunk of the sonic spectrum that has traditionally been important for electronic music lies within that red spectrum (a lot of that blue would probably fall outside of what most electronic musicians would consider "useful").

So for me, at least, analog still has its place, alongside digital, and as a complement to it.
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Old 23rd July 2014
  #366
VST
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There's no chance in hell a softsynth today can do what even a modest modular set up can do in terms of purity of tone and modulation. Even Diva, the holly grail of vst's, wasn't entirely convincing on a simple pad and lead sound.
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Old 23rd July 2014
  #367
I think the prophet 12 sound better than diva. Osc Slop is a big must for digital osc. I can get the prophet 12 to sound close to a pro 1 on some patches. The dead sounding osc on diva, and the not quite 3d resonance of the filter in diva makes it fall a little flat on resonant sounds, and swimmy living OSC sounds.

But on static stuff, sounds great...
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Old 23rd July 2014
  #368
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The game is over- software can take the best punches of analogue and hold its own

This is actually good news for all of us no matter what side we were on before- people shouldn't have to pay a fortune for premium sound

Sound is complex but not that complex- if we can invent nano technology we can copy an analogue synth accurately- folks- sound is complex- BUT IT IS NOT THAT COMPLEX. Many who argue for analogue being untouchable have absolutely no idea what a truly complex scientific challenge really is- get out of your house and visit NASA some day and you will discover your 30 year old analogue synth isn't that difficult a problem to crack

And if the votes we this close over a pure sound- imagine how pointless the differences are once that sound is buried in reverb, drums, etc.

Time to give up the religious crusade. its OK to love an analogue synth for what it is- not because it can't be copied.

As for me.. I am interested in buying Diva!
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Old 23rd July 2014
  #369
Diva is worth every penny. Saying it replaces any hardware though, DONT MAKE ME LOL.......

Use anything to make music, digital is great, so is analog, all of it is great for their own unique reasons..

If you get automation crazy with diva in a DAW it can do stuff no hardware can do.. Simple as that..
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Old 23rd July 2014
  #370
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I was really hoping this would have gone on a bit longer before the results were posted. I was trying to book time in a high end studio inside a clean room so I could give it a proper listen without the sound of all that dust particulate in the air colliding and coloring the sound.
Old 23rd July 2014
  #371
Registered User
This is purely my opinion.

I believe you could take a handful of pop/rock tunes from recent decades, and replace the original analog synth tracks with parts re-recorded with software instruments. Ensure that the patches are created by pro level sound designers.

Give the "new" recordings to typical music listeners who are familiar with the material.

It is my opinion that - especially if you never suggested that anything might be different - that Zachary and Colleen Fanster would never hear the difference in the old vs new recordings.

You could play the revised recordings for 1,000 regular people - not musicians listening to every detail in their headphones - and not one of those people would notice the difference. Not one.

You may disagree, and that's okay.

Last edited by keybdwizrd; 23rd July 2014 at 04:07 AM.. Reason: damn typos...
Old 23rd July 2014
  #372
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by vstace View Post
There's no chance in hell a softsynth today can do what even a modest modular set up can do in terms of purity of tone and modulation. Even Diva, the holly grail of vst's, wasn't entirely convincing on a simple pad and lead sound.
There are only a couple of VSTs that I am aware of that attempt to duplicate a modular synth system in software. Frankly, there just aren't very many keyboardists/musicians, in the general scheme of things, who are interested in modulars anyway.

Diva was never created to replace someone's modular system.

It is a software instrument that does a very good job of sounding like an analog synthesizer.

And good luck finding a group of people - especially the crowd here - who are in 100% agreement about anything.

I expect that Urs is seeing a nice spike in Diva sales due to this thread.
Old 23rd July 2014
  #373
227861
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keybdwizrd View Post
This is purely my opinion.

I believe you could take a handful of pop/rock tunes from recent decades, and replace the original analog synth tracks with parts re-recorded with software instruments. Ensure that the patches are created by pro level sound designers.

Give the "new" recordings to typical music listeners who are familiar with the material.

It is my opinion that - especially if you never suggested that anything might be different - that Zachary and Colleen Fanster would never hear the difference in the old vs new recordings.

You could play the revised recordings for 1,000 regular people - not musicians listening to every detail in their headphones - and not one of those people would notice the difference. Not one.

You may disagree, and that's okay.
man you just keep fighting for it, ha

but... who cares, all that great music would never have been the same in the end result if it had been done with the tools we have today, because the process is different. I think out of all this "this synth and softies can do anything and these old stuff are so limited and take up so much room, and costs a lot" nonsense. So what , they are physical instruments that many of us connect with and lots of us like the process of making music with them instead of softies and a computer. Yes we can use both but it would be a sad sad day if every manufacturer stopped making hardware because software was finally good enough.

Long live hardware!
Old 23rd July 2014
  #374
227861
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by keybdwizrd View Post
This is purely my opinion.

I believe you could take a handful of pop/rock tunes from recent decades, and replace the original analog synth tracks with parts re-recorded with software instruments. Ensure that the patches are created by pro level sound designers.

Give the "new" recordings to typical music listeners who are familiar with the material.

It is my opinion that - especially if you never suggested that anything might be different - that Zachary and Colleen Fanster would never hear the difference in the old vs new recordings.

You could play the revised recordings for 1,000 regular people - not musicians listening to every detail in their headphones - and not one of those people would notice the difference. Not one.

You may disagree, and that's okay.
man you just keep fighting for it, ha

but... who cares, all that great music would never have been the same in the end result if it had been done with the tools we have today, because the process is different. I think out of all this "this synth and softies can do anything and these old stuff are so limited and take up so much room, and costs a lot" nonsense. So what , they are physical instruments that many of us connect with and lots of us like the process of making music with them instead of softies and a computer. Yes we can use both but it would be a sad sad day if every manufacturer stopped making hardware because software was finally good enough.

Long live hardware!
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Old 23rd July 2014
  #375
Registered User
 

I was the first one, who discovered the "processing glitches" of the OB-8...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Autumn Leaves View Post
The synth lead sound begins to badly deteriorate and stutter between 00:42 and 00:45 (and again between 00:57 and 1:01), as if there were some processing glitches. Counting the bars, this must be synth B from the second parts.


I preferred the sound of Diva. But nothing can replace the experience of sitting in front of a real OB-8!
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Old 23rd July 2014
  #376
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disease Factory View Post
Diva is worth every penny. Saying it replaces any hardware though, DONT MAKE ME LOL.......
..
Actually that exactly what I am saying- it does replace hardware and goes beyond it. There is a reason that you do not see many people typing on typewriters anymore- everybody is on computers. Why? some new technology is so much better that it completely dominates.

its quant to throw a bone to the owner of outdated tech and say "well, your device still is great"- but the reality is that some things are just an inferior method of accomplishing a goal- and analogue synthesizers are starting to fall into that category.

There are people who drive classic cars and love them for their history and design- but they don't claim they are a better way to get from point A to B than a modern car. I can respect that.

But analogue synth addicts are making claims that simply cannot be supported anymore- its not just a collector's hobby- they are claiming that their sound cannot be equaled. This is a big reason for the sales of analogue synths- the historical collector market is much smaller. And for a long time, crowd sourced opinion sites- like gearslutz- have allowed analogue fans the floor to hype their gear.

But people also go to other sites like Sound On Sound and Keyboard Mag and, increasingly, professional reviewers (and musicians) who have no skin in the game are going to tell the truth. At that point, the "hype machine" for analogue is going to start to lose credibility and sales of analogue gear will decline as people see no reason for paying so much more for the same sound they can get cheaply.

I think this is the reason Korg never put any real money into full fledged analogue poly synths and focused on cheap mono toys- they do not see a real future in analogue.

Once the music buying public starts to see no real advantage to analogue then the market will shrink down to the hobbyist collectors level. The hype machine will be ignored and its followers written off as irrational- analogue synths will join the arena of typewriters.

We are not talking a minor price difference here, we are talking over 4K for an analogue synth vs. $100-200 for a soft synth (or less in the future)- simple economics will doom analogue to the collectors level. This market has no future. The only reason analogue has sold at all recently is that it is very cheap mono gear- this is called a fad and fads come to an end. I would not consider a long term career at Moog.

And before anyone replies I have one question- are you typing your reply on a typewriter?
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Old 23rd July 2014
  #377
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Autumn Leaves View Post
I preferred the sound of Diva. But nothing can replace the experience of sitting in front of a real OB-8!
Unless you were sitting in front of one of these.....



Info is here...
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Old 23rd July 2014
  #378
LOL it does not sound 3d, or swimmy, or alive, it sounds canned, good canned..Sorry but nope it does not replace old gear. not at all.
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Old 23rd July 2014
  #379
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lune View Post
Actually that exactly what I am saying...

[snip - a bunch of great points]

...are you typing your reply on a typewriter?
Wow, some good points there.

Not to mention the fact that the analog synth market is but a very small portion of the overall keyboard/synth market worldwide.

We've got people playing keys in classic rock bands, indie rock bands, heavy metal bands, prog rock bands, corporate/wedding bands, country music bands... playing Christian and other religious music, writing songs, playing music in theatres, playing jazz, pop, classical, Europop, Asian, Latin, all kinds of different world music, hip hop, rap, R&B, soul... composing commercial music, music for film... a whole universe of people playing synthesizers and keyboards who....

...just don't care about having an instrument sound 100% EXACTLY like a vintage analog synthesizer.
Old 23rd July 2014
  #380
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
But analogue synth addicts are making claims that simply cannot be supported anymore- its not just a collector's hobby- they are claiming that their sound cannot be equaled.
I don't need to explain to anyone why analog synths sound different, but I have lots of experience w/ analog and digital and I know for myself for a fact that no software sounds like an OBX, P5 (esp. v2 SSM), 4-Voice, etc... I basically play synths, vintage, new, hardware, software etc.. for a living, no software I have used sounds like these things. But who cares, I love digital too and use for other things.

[edit] to add to this I do say though that it is more difficult to hear differences sometimes when people do these Gearslutz A/B tests. I really don't know why it is, maybe the sound is oversimplified sometimes or not exhibiting the strengths and weaknesses of both synths being compared.. But when you're in the studio and fire these things up and compare a majority of the times it's like night and day... I mean... if I have the windows open even my neighbor knows when I've fired up the P5 Rev2... it's freaking alive.. organic.. doing what it's best at.
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Old 23rd July 2014
  #381
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Westlaker's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lune View Post
But people also go to other sites like Sound On Sound and Keyboard Mag and, increasingly, professional reviewers (and musicians) who have no skin in the game are going to tell the truth. At that point, the "hype machine" for analogue is going to start to lose credibility and sales of analogue gear will decline as people see no reason for paying so much more for the same sound they can get cheaply.
You may be right. But I suspect (hope) that there will be a few ARTISTS left for whom analog synthesizers are indispensable for their ART. Whether or not other musicians are "telling the truth" will be wholly irrelevant to them.

You make some good points in this post. But the analogy with cars (classic v. modern) and typewriters/laptops is a bit shaky, I think, in that true art is not so directly tied to technological progress. Sometimes I think we all forget that the point of all of these machines is to make music. And that is an entirely personal and subjective (and even mystical) process. Not about getting from point A to point B more quickly...

Not claiming, by the way, that I see myself as some sort of visionary artist for whom only vintage analog synthesizers will do. I just happen to like them. But I'm pretty sure there are some regular posters on this forum who would fit that definition.
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Old 23rd July 2014
  #382
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lune View Post
But people also go to other sites like Sound On Sound and Keyboard Mag and, increasingly, professional reviewers (and musicians) who have no skin in the game are going to tell the truth. At that point, the "hype machine" for analogue is going to start to lose credibility and sales of analogue gear will decline as people see no reason for paying so much more for the same sound they can get cheaply.

Once the music buying public starts to see no real advantage to analogue then the market will shrink down to the hobbyist collectors level. The hype machine will be ignored and its followers written off as irrational- analogue synths will join the arena of typewriters.
Maybe when the analogue market crashes, we can have minimoogs for $300! And CS 80s for $500! I can't wait

Last edited by Vascillate; 23rd July 2014 at 06:27 AM.. Reason: Shorten the quote
Old 23rd July 2014
  #383
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bil_g's Avatar
 

Maybe Moog should make typewriters.
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Old 23rd July 2014
  #384
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Originally Posted by Lune View Post
Actually that exactly what I am saying- it does replace hardware and goes beyond it.
I'm not so convinced of that. For me, nothing beats sitting in front of a good analogue for playing/tweaking. Its still more fun. But what it does mean is that there is no longer only one path to the destination. Its just that one is taken in a Prius through the tunnels and the other on the mountain railway. Whatever inspires us best.
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Old 23rd July 2014
  #385
I'm having a blast programming my new p12...... and its the module, i prefer even it to making sounds with a mouse... no thanks, and this is one of the reasons i will always have hardware around..
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Old 23rd July 2014
  #386
227861
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lune View Post
Actually that exactly what I am saying- it does replace hardware and goes beyond it. There is a reason that you do not see many people typing on typewriters anymore- everybody is on computers. Why? some new technology is so much better that it completely dominates.

its quant to throw a bone to the owner of outdated tech and say "well, your device still is great"- but the reality is that some things are just an inferior method of accomplishing a goal- and analogue synthesizers are starting to fall into that category.

There are people who drive classic cars and love them for their history and design- but they don't claim they are a better way to get from point A to B than a modern car. I can respect that.

But analogue synth addicts are making claims that simply cannot be supported anymore- its not just a collector's hobby- they are claiming that their sound cannot be equaled. This is a big reason for the sales of analogue synths- the historical collector market is much smaller. And for a long time, crowd sourced opinion sites- like gearslutz- have allowed analogue fans the floor to hype their gear.

But people also go to other sites like Sound On Sound and Keyboard Mag and, increasingly, professional reviewers (and musicians) who have no skin in the game are going to tell the truth. At that point, the "hype machine" for analogue is going to start to lose credibility and sales of analogue gear will decline as people see no reason for paying so much more for the same sound they can get cheaply.

I think this is the reason Korg never put any real money into full fledged analogue poly synths and focused on cheap mono toys- they do not see a real future in analogue.

Once the music buying public starts to see no real advantage to analogue then the market will shrink down to the hobbyist collectors level. The hype machine will be ignored and its followers written off as irrational- analogue synths will join the arena of typewriters.

We are not talking a minor price difference here, we are talking over 4K for an analogue synth vs. $100-200 for a soft synth (or less in the future)- simple economics will doom analogue to the collectors level. This market has no future. The only reason analogue has sold at all recently is that it is very cheap mono gear- this is called a fad and fads come to an end. I would not consider a long term career at Moog.

And before anyone replies I have one question- are you typing your reply on a typewriter?
I'm curious to know what analog synths you have owned / tried?
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Old 23rd July 2014
  #387
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maisonvague's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lune View Post
Time to give up the religious crusade.
And do what -- join another one?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lune View Post
Actually that exactly what I am saying- it does replace hardware and goes beyond it. There is a reason that you do not see many people typing on typewriters anymore- everybody is on computers. Why? some new technology is so much better that it completely dominates.

its quant to throw a bone to the owner of outdated tech and say "well, your device still is great"- but the reality is that some things are just an inferior method of accomplishing a goal- and analogue synthesizers are starting to fall into that category.

There are people who drive classic cars and love them for their history and design- but they don't claim they are a better way to get from point A to B than a modern car. I can respect that.

But analogue synth addicts are making claims that simply cannot be supported anymore- its not just a collector's hobby- they are claiming that their sound cannot be equaled. This is a big reason for the sales of analogue synths- the historical collector market is much smaller. And for a long time, crowd sourced opinion sites- like gearslutz- have allowed analogue fans the floor to hype their gear.

But people also go to other sites like Sound On Sound and Keyboard Mag and, increasingly, professional reviewers (and musicians) who have no skin in the game are going to tell the truth. At that point, the "hype machine" for analogue is going to start to lose credibility and sales of analogue gear will decline as people see no reason for paying so much more for the same sound they can get cheaply.

I think this is the reason Korg never put any real money into full fledged analogue poly synths and focused on cheap mono toys- they do not see a real future in analogue.

Once the music buying public starts to see no real advantage to analogue then the market will shrink down to the hobbyist collectors level. The hype machine will be ignored and its followers written off as irrational- analogue synths will join the arena of typewriters.

We are not talking a minor price difference here, we are talking over 4K for an analogue synth vs. $100-200 for a soft synth (or less in the future)- simple economics will doom analogue to the collectors level. This market has no future. The only reason analogue has sold at all recently is that it is very cheap mono gear- this is called a fad and fads come to an end. I would not consider a long term career at Moog.

And before anyone replies I have one question- are you typing your reply on a typewriter?


(sigh) I was so hoping it wouldn't come to this.

All I can say is go for it, Lune!

I won't stop you. Just know, I won't be joining you.

But then, if you're so convinced Diva is that good, it shouldn't matter, should it?
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Old 23rd July 2014
  #388
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
Also, what does someone's ability to hear tiny differences in a sound have to do with making music? It's well known that Beethoven composed many great works long after his hearing deteriorated.
Dwub dwub dwub squeeeeee
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Old 23rd July 2014
  #389
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ionian's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by maisonvague View Post

But then, if you're so convinced Diva is that good, it shouldn't matter, should it?
All of Lune's posts sounded more like he was trying to convince himself rather than us, anyway.


Regards,
Frank
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Old 23rd July 2014
  #390
Jose Ramón Alvarado Villa
 
Don Solaris's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by azone2 View Post
[edit] to add to this I do say though that it is more difficult to hear differences sometimes when people do these Gearslutz A/B tests. I really don't know why it is
Audio converters, mp3 compression etc. Plus, as i've explained earlier, all these tests have one thing in common. They all show a single patch side by side, instead of showing knobs being tweaked side by side. Think of it as showing two static pictures side by side, instead of showing two films side by side. I may be a bit biased in here though, since i've preferred the sound of Diva in this test.
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