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The E-mu Command Station XL-7/MP-7/PK-7 and Proteus 2500 tutorials Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 21st August 2017
  #211
Here for the gear
Thanks Mastaman and Balma, it wasnt a multi timbral synth, just a 4 voice one i wanted to do it to

I DID get it working fine thanks, and Im on my way to making a nice track BUT Ive gone and messed up the settings somewhere for the XL7, everything I know about ive checked, keyboard midi set to off, arps midi on etc except now the ONLY track that arps is the one selected in the LCD display, any ideas whats happened here please? Im gutted as everything was going so smoothly and now ive effectivly knackered the patterns i was making

EDIT://
Found the solution, was setting Midi Mode to POLY not OMNI but i do still have a slight problem:
When i change the track/channel in the lcd it actually stops the arps temporarily, until the next note triggers them, i definitely dont remember it doing this before

Last edited by AnoNeko; 21st August 2017 at 03:27 PM.. Reason: solved
Old 27th August 2017
  #212
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnoNeko View Post
Found the solution, was setting Midi Mode to POLY not OMNI but i do still have a slight problem:
When i change the track/channel in the lcd it actually stops the arps temporarily, until the next note triggers them, i definitely dont remember it doing this before
As you probably know, a lot of things on E-Mu ROMplers are interdependent. If you are working on a specific tune or performance, you might want to save the system settings in a multisetup in addition to the settings that get saved with your sequence. (Check the manual for what settings get saved.)

If you are using OS 2.0, I am pretty sure that when you press the front panel powerdown button, during the countdown some last-state settings get saved. If I am right, when you powerup, the last-state system settings get restored. (For example, you might notice that the display angle last used gets restored.)

If at that point you dial up the sequencer you were last working on, you should be ready to go. If you use software (such as preset editing software) that defaults to or changes the multisetup in effect when you last saved the tune/sequence, you might have to restore the multi for that tune.

As for using 32 arp sequences on 32 different midi-channels, I always use multi-timbral mode, not poly mode or omni mode.

How you trigger the arps could also affect your tune. If you use the 16 trigger buttons, the arps should be triggered based on those settings. If you use software or external hardware, you could trigger up to 32 arps that way.

I don't think I have ever tried to do a performance by triggering multiple arps based on the Basic Display.

I hope this helps.

Steve

PS: When you say "When i change the track/channel in the lcd . . . " are you talking about dialing up a different sequence to one that is playing? Maybe I misunderstood.

Last edited by Dr. Steve; 27th August 2017 at 07:05 PM.. Reason: To clarify some less-than-clear wording.
Old 27th August 2017
  #213
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by balma View Post
The main outputs of my central unit, suddenly died, also the headphones' 1/4 Input doesn't work.
This problem forced me to resend the output of everything from MAIN to the SUB2 and SUB3 individual outputs. This means, checking around 5000 tracks from the sequencer, one by one.

But the worst problem is the terrible and unexpected, loud white noise.
[snip]
Several years ago I experienced something that sounds similar. I solved it the same way you did--by using the sub outs. In my case, I was getting terrible random noises constantly from the headphones and from the main audio output. A former E-Mu employee suggested that it sounded like a problem with the FX chip. As I recall, the FX chip failed to pass diagnostics. If you haven't done that diagnostic function, I recommend trying it.*

BTW, congrats on all the time you have had to get back into your E-Mu gear recently, and continued kudos on this thread!!

Steve

*Addendum: On the P2500, OS2.0, it was Diagnostic Function 12: FX Chip RAM that failed on mine.

Last edited by Dr. Steve; 27th August 2017 at 11:33 PM.. Reason: corrected verb
Old 29th August 2017
  #214
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Steve View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnoNeko View Post
Found the solution, was setting Midi Mode to POLY not OMNI but i do still have a slight problem:
When i change the track/channel in the lcd it actually stops the arps temporarily, until the next note triggers them, i definitely dont remember it doing this before
As you probably know, a lot of things on E-Mu ROMplers are interdependent. If you are working on a specific tune or performance, you might want to save the system settings in a multisetup in addition to the settings that get saved with your sequence. (Check the manual for what settings get saved.)

If you are using OS 2.0, I am pretty sure that when you press the front panel powerdown button, during the countdown some last-state settings get saved. If I am right, when you powerup, the last-state system settings get restored. (For example, you might notice that the display angle last used gets restored.)

If at that point you dial up the sequencer you were last working on, you should be ready to go. If you use software (such as preset editing software) that defaults to or changes the multisetup in effect when you last saved the tune/sequence, you might have to restore the multi for that tune.

As for using 32 arp sequences on 32 different midi-channels, I always use multi-timbral mode, not poly mode or omni mode.

How you trigger the arps could also affect your tune. If you use the 16 trigger buttons, the arps should be triggered based on those settings. If you use software or external hardware, you could trigger up to 32 arps that way.

I don't think I have ever tried to do a performance by triggering multiple arps based on the Basic Display.

I hope this helps.

Steve

PS: When you say "When i change the track/channel in the lcd . . . " are you talking about dialing up a different sequence to one that is playing? Maybe I misunderstood.
Thanks Steve you were bang on. I had it out of multi mode and that's what did it (only plays track displayed on lcd)

I will have to start saving per track multi setups then before I change things

How would you wire up a midi effector box? I but a midiPal awhile ago and I'm unsure how to implement it with the xl7. I don't use an external keyboard so maybe I would need to use midi B to output into the midiPal? But I thought B was only for internal use? It's a clone of midiBro any ideas how you would slot that in? Thanks for the help
Old 30th August 2017
  #215
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balma's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Steve View Post
Several years ago I experienced something that sounds similar. I solved it the same way you did--by using the sub outs. In my case, I was getting terrible random noises constantly from the headphones and from the main audio output. A former E-Mu employee suggested that it sounded like a problem with the FX chip. As I recall, the FX chip failed to pass diagnostics. If you haven't done that diagnostic function, I recommend trying it.*

BTW, congrats on all the time you have had to get back into your E-Mu gear recently, and continued kudos on this thread!!

Steve

*Addendum: On the P2500, OS2.0, it was Diagnostic Function 12: FX Chip RAM that failed on mine.

Thanks man! Unfortunately I used the diagnostic mode and the FX chip did not failed on mine. I don't believe the problem is located on the FX chip, because I'm still able to use the 2 and 3 SubOutputs effects when plugging stereo 1/4 jacks on them.
I suspect it is related to the Headphones main output on the surface, wich is very close to the Goose lamp input. It is weird that the headphones input and the two main outputs suddenly stopped working, maybe the problem could be located there and a short circuit between both, gooselamp input and headphones input, fried the Main Outputs.
I wonder if there are other users with this problem and find the solution. I don't want to take my main unit to a technician in this country (Costa Rica) .

BTW, the horrible white noise has become less and less frequent. I left my unit turned on during a couple of days, and since then, it hasn't happen again. Such noise could easily blow speakers during a gig.... I was so worried about that, because I had no way to prevent it....

Last edited by balma; 5th September 2017 at 04:52 AM..
Old 10th September 2017
  #216
Gear Head
Is it possible to swing quantize on the fly in grid record mode or would I have to swing the tempo/midi clock? (Seems it is possible to do the old mod tracker swing trick by varying the tempo on each 16th note! A bit tedious to change the amount of swing though...)
Old 12th September 2017
  #217
Gear Head
So has the consensus been that the command station is unsuitable for swingy on-the-fly X0X-style (grid) programming?

Alternating tempo on odd and even numbered 16ths seems like a good trick, but I guess I'll have to test it thoroughly to see if it starts to glitch in use.

Syncing to a swung MIDI clock is also a theoretical possibility. (I know MarOS on an X0XB0X can output swung MIDI clock. RM1X doesn't have tempo track in pattern mode, but perhaps a song could be looped? Not sure if I've ever tried it, but if it is possible, I bet the clock will stutter at the loop point...)
Old 13th September 2017
  #218
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yammy GS1 View Post
Is it possible to swing quantize on the fly in grid record mode or would I have to swing the tempo/midi clock? (Seems it is possible to do the old mod tracker swing trick by varying the tempo on each 16th note! A bit tedious to change the amount of swing though...)
Not quite sure I understand what you are trying to achieve, but have you had a look at the manual? (from page 75 on) Are you trying to have different swing amounts in a single pattern? The CS has fairly extensive swing and quantize options, but AFAIK its based on track units, not sure you can vary swing within a single track - ie pretty sure you can't change tempo per note. As you select which tracks to swing though, there is a possibility that you can have different swing for different tracks within a single pattern, but haven't had an urge to try that myself.
Old 14th September 2017
  #219
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by butter View Post
Not quite sure I understand what you are trying to achieve, but have you had a look at the manual? (from page 75 on) Are you trying to have different swing amounts in a single pattern? The CS has fairly extensive swing and quantize options, but AFAIK its based on track units, not sure you can vary swing within a single track - ie pretty sure you can't change tempo per note. As you select which tracks to swing though, there is a possibility that you can have different swing for different tracks within a single pattern, but haven't had an urge to try that myself.
I've searched through the manual, but haven't found anything on on-the-fly swing quantization in grid edit mode. The only form of quantization appears to be the non-real-time quantization operation that can only be executed when the sequencer is not running.

I was just hoping someone with more experience with the machine might have some insight into this particular matter. Personally I'm more familiar with the RM1X and I'm aware that its grid edit mode is widely known to be "crippled" because of certain unfortunate limitations. But I have no idea what the general opinion on the CS grid mode is. Is it usable as is (that groove template is where exactly?)? Are there any proven tricks or workarounds to compensate for its limitations? Etc.

Well, I guess I'll run my experiments when I have the time and draw my own conclusions. Perhaps I'll publish my findings and possible tricks and workarounds I manage to come up with.
Old 21st September 2017
  #220
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Entrainer View Post
Hello,

I'm at a friend's house helping him setup his studio.

His Proteus 2500 occasionally functions correctly. At other times, when being first powered up, it freezes with a black bar on the LCD and all of the LED lights illuminated.

Has anyone experienced this and know a solution?
Have you found the solution to the issue the Emu Proteus freezes with a black bar. I am having the same issue
Old 24th September 2017
  #221
Gear Maniac
strange feature on my MP7:

sub out1/2 sends out alright & returns on the headphone & main outs but not on the digital out (no matter what format)

digital out works great on everything else (incl send EFX while sub outs) but not on the sub outs (returns) - can somebody confirm this behavior please?
manual states that dig out is a copy of the main outs...

anybody knows a remedy?
Old 29th September 2017
  #222
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balma's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yammy GS1 View Post
Is it possible to swing quantize on the fly in grid record mode or would I have to swing the tempo/midi clock? (Seems it is possible to do the old mod tracker swing trick by varying the tempo on each 16th note! A bit tedious to change the amount of swing though...)
Hi!
Swing is not a realtime effect on the CS. Actually is an implementation to change the positions of already recorded/stored notes on the sequencer's tracks.
Old 30th September 2017
  #223
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by balma View Post
The main outputs of my central unit, suddenly died, also the headphones' 1/4 Input doesn't work.
This problem forced me to resend the output of everything from MAIN to the SUB2 and SUB3 individual outputs. This means, checking around 5000 tracks from the sequencer, one by one.

But the worst problem is the terrible and unexpected, loud white noise. From time to time, my Command Station suddenly explodes in white noise, with a high risk for my ears and the health of my monitors. It really worries me, because it happens with no advice, and is random, and very annoying. I don't trust it any longer. If that happens during a gig, it could blow some heads/windows.
Hi, I have a basic question. I am only getting very faint sound from the headphone out on my XL-7 and nothing at all from the main and sub outputs. What would be the best way to troubleshoot this? Is there a way to fix the outputs?
Old 10th October 2017
  #224
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balma's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by emuegg View Post
Hi, I have a basic question. I am only getting very faint sound from the headphone out on my XL-7 and nothing at all from the main and sub outputs. What would be the best way to troubleshoot this? Is there a way to fix the outputs?
Hi man!. Actually that's a well known issue with the command stations, most of them give you a hummm noise in the headphones. sometimes, some sounds leave that hum trace after you play them (related to CAT settings or release 2 value), pressing MIDI panic sometimes fix the problem. But haven't heard about a solution to this.
Old 10th October 2017
  #225
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balma's Avatar
Now, ****ing NATE hurricane, passed over across Costa Rica, leaving a destruction path everywhere, including my neighborhood.

I arrived at home at 10 pm after working in the office, and found my house & studio almost flooded.

I could rescue all my synths, except the computer, and backups.

ALL my music from the last 6 years, all my samples, tutorials, MIDI files, ALL my musical work disappeared, including all the writings I had almost ready for this thread

anyway, sometimes, these kind of tragedies, can result in something positive. Now I'll be FORCED to start from zero, but applying new learnings from the last years.... at least, I need to get something positive from this because obviously I cried. There were THOUSANDS of work hours on my synths, something I will never, ever get back....

So the new 2017 E-mu tutorial will have to wait/.... my apologies...
Old 10th October 2017
  #226
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by balma View Post
anyway, sometimes, these kind of tragedies, can result in something positive. Now I'll be FORCED to start from zero, but applying new learnings from the last years.... at least, I need to get something positive from this because obviously I cried.
I'm very sorry to hear about these losses but more importantly I am very glad that you are safe and still able to post here.
Old 20th October 2017
  #227
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balma's Avatar
Thank you very much mates! Good willing and the love for music are intact! So not too much has been lost, really....


command stations are multifunctional devices at the service of many aspects of the electronic music production. They are great for controlling other devices. They perform very well synchronizing and sequencing other MIDI instruments on stage providing easy access to multiple functions while sequencing on realtime.

I'll try to provide first, information of the macro features of the sequencer, and its interaction with the sound engine section, and progressively, will dig deeper on its multiple functions and applications, to better understand its concept and get the best of its unlimited power to create sounds and music.

Sequencer and sound engine interaction:
Sequences does not use its own sounds. All the sequences -songs and patterns-, share the same sound database either factory/user banks
You can create 512 user patches, organized on 4 banks of 128 slots.

Now, if you begin to create patterns using your own sounds, any change you make to these sounds, will affect all the sequences where the sound is assigned to a track.
So, user patch locations must be manipulated carefully in order to avoid overwriting something used on a pattern and screwing your previous compositions. It is kind of complicated to update/improve the user sounds across an extended period of time, because any change will affect the sequences.

This limitation becomes more visible considering how much you can edit or modify the sounds in the patterns. An example

You have a bass with x amount of filter, and you want to reduce the filter amount in order to fit better in a pattern. In order to make this change, you must store the new filter settings saving the preset on a user bank location, or, record a control change in the track.
Only volume, panning and arpeggio values can be store in patterns. Changes on envelopes, filters, lfos are inherent to the patch database. Also, consider factory patches are not re-writable.
Conclusion:
User patch banks must be used wisely, they are 512 locations to feed the music created inside a huge complex database of 1024 patterns
But limitations are there to force the user to find new ways to use the instrument and be able to achieve the desired results.

This is a very complex and deep instrument, and most of this unveiled power comes from the interaction of its several cool features, and it always provide a way to make what you want, not precisely through th traditional
programming/composition methods.

I realized about the implications of the sound-pattern interaction concept after a couple of years of programming sounds and recording patterns. Progressively, I ran out of free patch slots. I was forced to depurate the patch database. I found I had no idea wich patches were used on x patterns, because there´s no way to know it, unless you use the same name for patterns and sounds. A lack of knowledge / understanding how a synth like this works, can result on a mistake wich spreads across the years and force to reprogramming the instrument to be able to keep a growing learning/improving curve.

I had to check each one of the patterns and its sounds, and rename the sounds adding an * to the name, so then; I knew wich patches were being used on a pattern, hence they shoud not be erased or edited.
After a tedious process and scanning all the pattern database, I erased the patches without the * and created new blank user locations to save new sounds.
Really a pain in the *ss, but in certain way, I was unaware this limitation forced me to implement a quality control wich could result in a better use of the instrument's features.

The sequencing concept of the Pattern's section is beautifully conceived. It is extremely powerful, versatile, intuitive, hands-on. It puts a lot, a LOT of control in your hands. No excuses here, the pattern sequencer section can serve to compose any type of music.

There are 1024 locations, organized on 8 banks, wich can be browsed very easy. The modwheel scrolls across the patch database very fast, and the selection of specific patterns is accurated.
Patterns are so flexible: you can use the 16 tracks to play a single sound, or viceversa, use a single track to play up to 16 sounds. MIDI functions for each track are easy to access. A single pattern can play the internal engine while controlling and sequencing two external instruments. Switch function of the knobs, can allow to change from tweaking the internal engine, to tweak the parameters of external sounds.
tracks can record not only notes, but control changes --CC--, and the storage of both can be stored on individual tracks. This means: you can record a track with x sound, and then, on a second track record a filter modulation with the knobs for that sound. So, tracks can be used not to just record note sequences, but also they can behave as modulation sequencers, afecting different tracks on a single pattern. You can record 8 tracks with notes, and then, use a individual track to modulate those 8 tracks. Or use any number of tracks you want as modulation sequences.
That's amazing, since you can assign the same MIDI route to multiple tracks. Amazing feature, wich can be used in multiple ways as I will explain later.

I want to share my findings because they were positive, and want to help others so I guarantee satisfactory results if I explain myself well, and at least somebody gets some benefit after reading this mess of information....

Now some audio decoration. This is one of the latest sequences I've made with the command station, trying to explore one of its many bizarre faces.



One of the greatest feature, added on the last OS Update for the command stations, is the XMIX function. XMIX is like a

COPY/PASTE realtime function for the pattern sequencer. You can bring ANY track from the 1024 locations to the currently

playing pattern, on realtime. Any track number can be imported from the pattern database and will have immediate effect.
The XMIX also provides alternative methods to use the sequencer.
For example, and I know other users also had this same idea: you can use patterns not to just store musical sequences,

but to serve as sound category containers. You can use a pattern to record for example, 16 types of snares. Then,

when you are composing a new pattern and need a snare, use the xmix to bring it from a Snare-dedicated pattern.

1024 organized on 8x128 locations. From the main screen you can advance to the next pattern, or the next bank/level,

depending where the cursor is positioned. I found useful to use a whole bank, the 7th to store sound category patterns.

For example I recollected the best hi hat sequences and stores them in a single pattern, and named it "HH-A1" on the name

nomenclature, to recognize it. Same for other sound categories.
I use this method mostly for the basic/structural sounds of dance compositions like snares, percussions, some basses,

etc. This also helps you to monitor/compare your skills on specific sound categories, and maybe realize you are too

repetitive, monotonous, or reiterative with certain programming methods. Probabilities to obtain more heterogeneous results

increase with this sequencer implementation.

It is possible to also store knob modulations/motion sequences on separated patterns. This means you can have knob tweaks stored on separated patterns, and bring them to the scene on realtime while playing, and reasign the sound/track they are going modulate.

Last edited by balma; 20th October 2017 at 10:27 PM..
Old 22nd October 2017
  #228
Gear Head
 

Very sorry to hear of your loss of stuff from the flooding cause by Nasty Nate. Glad to see you will be able to continue your creativity and words of wisdom.

"Tracks can record not only notes, but control changes --CC--, and the storage of both can be stored on individual tracks. This means: you can record a track with x sound, and then, on a second track record a filter modulation with the knobs for that sound."

This is an excellent technique with the Command Stations/P2500--using a separate track for [additional] CC manipulations to preserve the original track [notes and basic CC changes.

The lesson about tweaking [user] presets and then finding out you had songs that needed a previous version of that preset is an important one to learn!!! (I have been there!) One solution is to name variants "MyPreset 0.0," MyPreset 0.0a", etc., put the variants in adjacent user slots (if available), and not delete the older ones--until maybe after you have backed up the presets a few times (individually and/or) in banks.

Of course, taking good notes of what you used is important, too--and maybe storing the notes on a usb drive, a personal website, etc.

Steve
Old 22nd October 2017
  #229
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by balma View Post
You have a bass with x amount of filter, and you want to reduce the filter amount in order to fit better in a pattern. In order to make this change, you must store the new filter settings saving the preset on a user bank location, or, record a control change in the track.
Only volume, panning and arpeggio values can be store in patterns. Changes on envelopes, filters, lfos are inherent to the patch database. Also, consider factory patches are not re-writable.
Conclusion:
User patch banks must be used wisely, they are 512 locations to feed the music created inside a huge complex database of 1024 patterns
But limitations are there to force the user to find new ways to use the instrument and be able to achieve the desired results.
There is another technique that might work say for example IF you just want a use an existing preset but with different initial controller amounts. Actually, it might work with other parameter's too, such as filter type. At this point consider it "theoretically possible;" not sure when I will have a chance to test it.

The sequencer can store sysex commands, including parameter changes, if you edit them outside of the E-Mu box and then upload them to a sequence. So you might be able to insert sysex commands to set (for example) the initial controller amounts either in a setup sequence or within a sequence's track.

Again, this is theoretical at this point.

I seem to recall that the E-Mus have parameter settings [e.g., CC values] stored in each of the 32 midi channels that will stay there until such time that you do some sort of reset--such as recalling the preset on that channel.

Assuming this will work, it would require planning and the ability to edit sysex commands externally, embed them in a sequence, and upload the sequence.

Again if it works, it might be worth someone's time if they have presets they like, but want to make a number of variants without using up multiple preset slots. Obviously, saving variants as you create them using some sort of naming scheme is less likely to interfere with the on-the-fly creative workflow.

Just a thought.

Steve

PS: In one of the Yahoo User Groups, I am pretty sure I wrote up how to do this (for example) to change MidiA ->MidiP CC assignments for different sequences/patterns >>IF<< I remember correctly.
Old 23rd October 2017
  #230
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balma's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Steve View Post
There is another technique that might work say for example IF you just want a use an existing preset but with different initial controller amounts. Actually, it might work with other parameter's too, such as filter type. At this point consider it "theoretically possible;" not sure when I will have a chance to test it.
Hi Steve nice to see a Senior E-mu user around here!

Actually that's the only possible method to keep any knob value change on a patch and store it along the pattern, but it's quite tedious to insert those changes with the CC/sy sex editor, and it present some inconvenients for a fluid performance:
-If you record a control change, it must be recordered just before the first note of the track. Otherwise, the note will play first and if there's a control change affecting it after the note plays, you'll get an annoying jump value effect.
-To avoid that, for example, you must record the CC on the position 1:00:001, and then move the notes immediately after it, let's say, starting on position 1:00:003.
-It also brings another inconvenient. The inserted control changes will modify the sounds each a pattern cycle repeats. So, if you are performing live, playing tracks and modulating knobs while playing a pattern, each time the pattern repeats control changes could screw any knob modulation you've performed while playing.
-For example, if you create a CC with +25 filter setting and insert it at the beginning of a track, you are forced to avoid making changes on the filter of that sound while playing, because when the pattern repeats again, it will set the filter value to 25+, ruining any change you made during realtime performance.

I've tried several workarounds during years, and found that the best solution, is creating the best User sounds you can, and create different knob functions depending of the sound category.
Why you should want to modify a sound to make it fit better into a pattern, if you already have created superb and flexible, versatile sounds wich can fit in any of your pattern compositions? That's the most logical way out to the rigid patch database-sequencer relationship.
This method must be explained in high detail and will do it in this thread, because it requires a comprehensive interaction between sound categories that you must create, and "track categories" that you will create, store them by separated, specifically designed to play just certain type of sounds.

Programming one by one, each one of the 512 user sounds, can take years. Consider you program 1 patch per day. Surely you'll spend 2 years just programming user sounds. So, it is good idea to create a bunch of user presets from scratch, one or two per category. Let's say you create 32 TEMPLATES, one per sound category, aimed to satisfy the behavior of such category, and then, use each one of these sounds to produce 16 sounds.
16 * 32= 512.
You will reprogram the knobs of these sounds, depending of the category or type of sounds they are going to modulate.
As a simple example, you create a KICK category. Kicks are short sounds, so heavy envelope or LFO programming are most of the time useless. So, I will skip LFO or long envelope curve programmings, since I want to focus more on other properties of the sound, like reducing or increasing the time decay a little bit, the filter, or volume of each kick (in the case you are layering 4 kicks to create a single KICK preset), or even the start time of the sample. Also, you could use the retrigger function in the modulation matrix, and send a 1/16 clock divider to the retrigger in order to produce a 1/16 roll effect.
I also would reprogram the knobs to modulate the filter of each of the 4 kick layers by separated, (for example knob A to modulate the layer 1 filter, knob b to modulate the layer 2 filter, etc...)
When I have defined in my mind, what I want to modulate on a kick during a realtime performance, I create from scratch a TEMPLATE specifically designed for kicks, save it as a category, and then, create other 15 kick presets using this template, and maybe just changing the selected kick samples inside the patch, and making some small changes on filters here and there you get a whole new sound.
I want to explain, with Modulation Matrix charts, how to create templates for specific types of sounds, to make easier for other users to create their own amazing sounds. and later, create specific CC modulation tracks -designed to tweak specific categories of sounds-, record them on separated tracks, and bring them on scene with the XMIX function.
That takes months of reprogramming, but believe, it worths the effort!!
Old 23rd October 2017
  #231
oh, just read this - I'm happy you're ok Balma, and no one got hurt. too bad about your house and the notes!

this is nice.
would you like to tell more what you did there?

and hello dr. Steve, welcome to Gearslutz
Old 23rd October 2017
  #232
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by balma View Post
Actually that's the only possible method to keep any knob value change on a patch and store it along the pattern, but it's quite tedious to insert those changes with the CC/sy sex editor, and it present some inconvenients for a fluid performance:
-If you record a control change, it must be recordered just before the first note of the track. Otherwise, the note will play first and if there's a control change affecting it after the note plays, you'll get an annoying jump value effect.
-To avoid that, for example, you must record the CC on the position 1:00:001, and then move the notes immediately after it, let's say, starting on position 1:00:003.
-It also brings another inconvenient. The inserted control changes will modify the sounds each a pattern cycle repeats. So, if you are performing live, playing tracks and modulating knobs while playing a pattern, each time the pattern repeats control changes could screw any knob modulation you've performed while playing.
-For example, if you create a CC with +25 filter setting and insert it at the beginning of a track, you are forced to avoid making changes on the filter of that sound while playing, because when the pattern repeats again, it will set the filter value to 25+, ruining any change you made during realtime performance.
Another one glad to hear you are OK and that this thread continues!

It was my understanding that the above works a little differently... I'm hesitant to "correct" you, but maybe you could clarify if its different in practice....?

As I understand the manual, that the first two ticks (0 and 1) of a pattern are reserved for "pre-sequence setup". When the loop repeats, it doesn't repeat those ticks - in fact from the diagram in the manual it almost looks like events and notes have different tick counters! I think that diagram is actually confusing, but the way I understand it is:

- "events" are processed before "notes"
- "events" on tick 0 are reserved for internal
- "events" on tick 1 are reserved for external
- "event data" on Ticks 0 and 1 is ignored when the loop repeats

So sounds to me that there is no need to move notes and you shouldn't have the looping problem of the setup being sent twice?
This is from the section called "Event Timing" in the manual (page 53 of my XL7 version)
Old 23rd October 2017
  #233
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by butter View Post
...

- "events" are processed before "notes"
- "events" on tick 0 are reserved for internal
- "events" on tick 1 are reserved for external
- "event data" on Ticks 0 and 1 is ignored when the loop repeats

...
I think you are right, I don't use internal sound but when sequencing external synth, I place a "program change" event at the beginning of the track and that change actually happens when the sequence is changed/loaded and it does not repeat when looping.

One of my favorite features is the ability to sequence BPM.
Old 23rd October 2017
  #234
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by butter View Post
Another one glad to hear you are OK and that this thread continues!

It was my understanding that the above works a little differently... I'm hesitant to "correct" you, but maybe you could clarify if its different in practice....?

As I understand the manual, that the first two ticks (0 and 1) of a pattern are reserved for "pre-sequence setup". When the loop repeats, it doesn't repeat those ticks - in fact from the diagram in the manual it almost looks like events and notes have different tick counters! I think that diagram is actually confusing, but the way I understand it is:

- "events" are processed before "notes"
- "events" on tick 0 are reserved for internal
- "events" on tick 1 are reserved for external
- "event data" on Ticks 0 and 1 is ignored when the loop repeats

So sounds to me that there is no need to move notes and you shouldn't have the looping problem of the setup being sent twice?
This is from the section called "Event Timing" in the manual (page 53 of my XL7 version)
I have some faint memory about that also..i did a "fake" clock start by putting a midi note# or was it CC# in the first step of the events (that can then midi to CV to the modular)..that was not looped in play mode (only when i hit restart clock)...i also remember reading using the first steps to change the multisetup...thereby somehow getting the knobs to change to the tweaked state, and other settings could also be changed that will automatically load up just for that pattern...it was a long time ago. An E-mu rep said that if there was only 1 or 2 changes to the preset sound it was worth doing ...but if the sound was drastically changed he recommended to save a new preset. I think making a prefix on ALL the sounds used with a new pattern/song name is a good idea. ie never use a preset sound in a song without renaming it to the pattern/song name.
Also to many changes in that first event could make it slow to start...my 2 cents.
Old 23rd October 2017
  #235
Lives for gear
 
balma's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by butter View Post
Another one glad to hear you are OK and that this thread continues!

It was my understanding that the above works a little differently... I'm hesitant to "correct" you, but maybe you could clarify if its different in practice....?

As I understand the manual, that the first two ticks (0 and 1) of a pattern are reserved for "pre-sequence setup". When the loop repeats, it doesn't repeat those ticks - in fact from the diagram in the manual it almost looks like events and notes have different tick counters! I think that diagram is actually confusing, but the way I understand it is:

- "events" are processed before "notes"
- "events" on tick 0 are reserved for internal
- "events" on tick 1 are reserved for external
- "event data" on Ticks 0 and 1 is ignored when the loop repeats

So sounds to me that there is no need to move notes and you shouldn't have the looping problem of the setup being sent twice?
This is from the section called "Event Timing" in the manual (page 53 of my XL7 version)
Oh that was so nice to read.... Actually I always had the intro ticks deactivated on my units so I forgot about that, thanks a lot for the correction!

however, I haven't tested this is practice, or better said, in a live performance, where you have to advance from pattern to pattern on a continuous chain. I wonder if the tick two first bars, have only effect on the first pattern.

Last edited by balma; 24th October 2017 at 01:35 AM..
Old 24th October 2017
  #236
Lives for gear
 
balma's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reptil View Post
oh, just read this - I'm happy you're ok Balma, and no one got hurt. too bad about your house and the notes!

this is nice.
would you like to tell more what you did there?

and hello dr. Steve, welcome to Gearslutz
Thank you very much Reptil!!!. Actually I must reply that in detail with another post soon. The whole song was created on two patterns of the E-mu Command Station, and I posted it here because it resembles how different a Command Station sounds after being reprogrammed.... is really hard to figure out a rompler is behind all those unusual sounds, and there are no effects on any of them. Pure dry sound, but manipulated by different methods.
I've found that the noise and random generators inside the mod-matrix, like the pink and white noise, are very useful for my purposes of creating organic, variable and erratic sound when to a destination like the amp or the filter, leave that patchcord at zero, and then use envelopes to modulate that relationship.... but it is useless talk if I do not explain in detail with patchcords.... yeah...... customized patchcords are the key to reveal the power of the CS....


The great inconvenient, is that all that music is lost now. At least all the music that I've uploaded to soundcloud is intact, and they are around 180 songs.

Normally, hurricanes does not pass over Costas Rica, they always go across Cuba, Jamaica, Puerto Rico, and always hit US the gulf or Florida, but this one, Nate, took a detour and crossed middle america. When I arrived at home, I found my computer with 3 inches of water, and I had a lot of backups on shoe boxes, full of data DVDs.
Literally thousands of samples and live sessions were lost.
I also lost a EMU HALO, floating on water, but I was not using it since I just extract the Q-ROM of the Halo and installed it on one of my command stations. Actually I bought it on $200 just to extract the ROM.
I shared here on GS some FIZMO and Tempest sample packs, they are lost now forever : (....
But all the music and sounds I've been developing on my main synths, still intact, since they suffer no harm
Old 24th October 2017
  #237
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by hlmm View Post

One of my favorite features is the ability to sequence BPM.
what do you mean by this, can you explain a bit please?
Old 25th October 2017
  #238
Lives for gear
 
balma's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger001 View Post
what do you mean by this, can you explain a bit please?
Maybe he refers to the T track. You can insert tempo/bpm changes on a pattern. On track edition mode, go till the track 1 with the up button, and press it one more time, you'll reach a track wich does not serve for the purpose of recording notes, but to record BPM. There you can insert BPM changes and they will affect the pattern on realtime, depending where did you insert the BPM change.
Old 28th October 2017
  #239
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yammy GS1 View Post
I've searched through the manual, but haven't found anything on on-the-fly swing quantization in grid edit mode. The only form of quantization appears to be the non-real-time quantization operation that can only be executed when the sequencer is not running.

I was just hoping someone with more experience with the machine might have some insight into this particular matter. Personally I'm more familiar with the RM1X and I'm aware that its grid edit mode is widely known to be "crippled" because of certain unfortunate limitations. [snip]
I don't use grid mode, though I did play around with it a few times. What you are trying to do is the kind of puzzle I like to work on when I have time (maybe Thanksgiving?). Help me understand what you want to do.

Intuitively (inexperienced as I am in RT grid live performance), grid modes seem to me to be designed so you can place/manipulate data on specific beats and on various specific beats in between. To me that seems antithetical to swing--where you have the machine place/manipulate data according to swing settings.

The trouble I am having is, if you want to be able to place/manipulate data at specific timings, why do you also want the OS to bobble the timings?

Not being critical here at all; just trying to get past my personal mental block as a non-grid mode RT performer so I can attempt the challenge you have identified.

Steve
Old 28th October 2017
  #240
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by balma
-For example, if you create a CC with +25 filter setting and insert it at the beginning of a track, you are forced to avoid making changes on the filter of that sound while playing, because when the pattern repeats again, it will set the filter value to 25+, ruining any change you made during realtime performance.
Excellent point; that's why I emphasized "theoritcal." If I ever get around to exploring the issue with my P2500 in front of me running, I suppose I'd explore the possibility of putting sysex tweaks in what I call the "pre-roll" area of the track. That's the area that sets track the presets when you first dial-up a pattern from a stopped state and when you to a RTZ. IIRC that data doesn't get repeats at loop time (or it can be configured so it doesn't). Its been years since I looked at that pre-roll data; not sure sysex can be put in there.

Another advanced challenge!!!!
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