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The E-mu Command Station XL-7/MP-7/PK-7 and Proteus 2500 tutorials Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 19th November 2017
  #271
Gear Maniac
reading and boiling/lettin this sip through got me thinking
took the sysex documentation (2.2)
since a few knobs on my MP7 start to wear out (the less you use them, the more prone to non functional) & these non-knobs prohibit a nice programming flow, i wanted to make a template on a remote controller

you can put the CS/Proteus in Remote Control where every knob will send out a sysex command

start by sending a device enquiry that will give you a response that you can use
-all values are hex-
F0 7E 00 06 01 F7
(if you don't get a response replace the 00 in 127, all broadcast ID)
the response will tell you what model you have, you'll need it in subsequent messages
put the Proteus/CS in Remote Control : F0 18 0F 00 55 40 10 F7
(where 00 is the device ID)
from now on most knobs transmit sysex and all knobs respond to sysex commands

a .....01 F7 message intends to mimic a button press
a .... 00 F7 message intends to mimic a button release

but i noticed that all messages (whether it a press or release initiate the command except where noted - see attached)

i've attached a spreadsheet with all the sysex commands i've been able to retrieve
-most of these are not in the 2.2 sysex manual-
if anybody has an idea, please share/update

## update 01/01/2018 ; i've attached a rather complete spreadsheet now
Attached Files
File Type: xls MP7sysex.xls (13.0 KB, 27 views)

Last edited by tiger001; 1st January 2018 at 07:52 PM..
Old 19th November 2017
  #272
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by manalishi View Post
Question for the E-mu experts: are there some 2000-series ROMs that are incompatible with each other?

I've got XLEAD which doesn't seem to work in the Orbit 3 - which has both Beat Garden and Tecno ROMs. I get a message on boot-up - something to the effect that some patches may be unavailable. And then the XLEAD ROM does not appear. And - weirdly - the same ROM worked fine in the Orbit 3 up until I reinstalled the Beat Garden.

Same XLEAD ROM works just fine in the Vintage Pro.

Is it possible that the ROMs need to be in certain locations in the 4 slots?
I can only really offer this advice: The Rom sets were originally made for the EMU E/Synth and when creative acquired EMU and Ensoniq they literally released 30 plus differing type performance instruments all back then were priced well, and simply justified as coming from the EMU sound library's it's here in these CD Roms where the basic patches and sounds exist and Creative Labs just expanded creating more, more and more. Yes proteus 1/2/3 were EMau products per Se though command Stations a XLead (Bright yellow) from memory all had certain Rom chips.

As a quick aside - You were able to burn your own Rom chips into EOS memory for sampling though it didn't take off with Rom so expensive back then, again, try as much Rom in certain units as possible though, yes error messages do come with X/Lead and other variations still I'd just try and if it doesn't work re initiate the OS system etc.
Old 19th November 2017
  #273
Gear Head
 
hayx's Avatar
 

I've been messing about with my XL-7 as of recent, and if your like me and are using it with external gear, it can a good time. Something not a lot of people know about the command stations is that you can assign tracks to their own midi channels.

This is helpful in that you can assign two tracks to the same midi channel (say track 1 and 9) and then use either track as an alternative take on a pattern or use it as an automation track for CC values. It's good stuff.
Old 19th November 2017
  #274
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger001 View Post
reading and boiling/lettin this sip through got me thinking
took the sysex documentation (2.2)
since a few knobs on my MP7 start to wear out (the less you use them, the more prone to non functional) & these non-knobs prohibit a nice programming flow, i wanted to make a template on a remote controller

you can put the CS/Proteus in Remote Control where every knob will send out a sysex command

start by sending a device enquiry that will give you a response that you can use
-all values are hex-
F0 7E 00 06 01 F7
(if you don't get a response replace the 00 in 127, all broadcast ID)
the response will tell you what model you have, you'll need it in subsequent messages
put the Proteus/CS in Remote Control : F0 18 0F 00 55 40 10 F7
(where 00 is the device ID)
from now on most knobs transmit sysex and all knobs respond to sysex commands

a .....01 F7 message intends to mimic a button press
a .... 00 F7 message intends to mimic a button release

but i noticed that all messages (whether it a press or release initiate the command except where noted - see attached)

i've attached a spreadsheet with all the sysex commands i've been able to retrieve, as you can see i'm missing a few (esp. for track mute 1/9)
-most of these are not in the 2.2 sysex manual-
if anybody has an idea, please share/update

I wonder if there is a sysex for selecting a track and make it active for recording. (same as shift+CH#) so that I could for instance select tracks with a midi foot pedal that can use sysex?? That would be great.

Also track mutes could be done with the midi command for volume +midi ch i guess.
Old 22nd November 2017
  #275
Lives for gear
 
balma's Avatar
Hey guys, I created a soundclooud profile just for Emu Command STation sound/music examples.
Anyone here can upload their sounds/emu tracks to it. Just send me a PM to give you the password so you can access it and upload. Just remember there's a time limit so try to make the audio files not lengthy.

https://soundcloud.com/user-137403335
Old 27th November 2017
  #276
Lives for gear
 
balma's Avatar
Composing this song based on a single E-mu CS pattern of 8 measures took me around 2-3 hours only, however, each one of the sounds took me around 1 day of sound programming.



Basically, most of the sequence of this track, is stored as patch programming methods to produce motion sequences inside the sound. It has only basic note sequencing on the tracks, almost each one of the tracks are holded-latch notes.
IMO the combination of different textures inside each one of the patches is extremely important to develop a complex and elaborated sound variations if you are using a single synthesizer as the sound resource. Many of these sounds were programmed during different epoques of my life, so they are quite different between them and had different goals at their moment. Now all of them, come together to serve a unique purpose.
The track gives the feeling of using multiple different instruments, however, this is just an 8 measures pattern, looping. But when programming each one of the sounds in a diferent way, with their own knob functions, the possibilities of the sound palette grows exponentially.
the kick and the basss are mono, but there is a holded bacground dirty noise sound, wich is expanded to stereo thanks to different Panning of each one of the layers, and activating the internal choir with discrete values. (if you add too much choir amount, the sound becomes mono). The dirty vinyl effect, wich creates the dirty atmospehere, uses 4 layers of the NOISE category samples , found on the XL-7 onboard ROM> I took each one of those noise layers, pan them separately, and send pink and white noise generators to the freq.

PINK ---> FiltFreq +010

Such connection of a pink noise generator, become more interesting if you do not connect them directly, but modulate them with another source, like a looping AUX ADSR envelope.

The trick is to program a long time evolving ADSR envelope, and then, send it to control the PINK / FiltFreq connection

PATCHCORD #1
AuxEnv +/- ---> PatchCord 2 Amount +50

PATCHCORD #2
PINK ---> FiiltFReq +00

The shaker refreshing effects, are shakers from the Beat Garden ROM, I use 4 similar shakers placed in 4 layers inside a single patch, but one after another, using the DELAY TIM function, wich allows to delay the start of the layers. That ggives the feeling of multiple shakers being played by separated, and assigning them different Zplane filters wich make emphasuis on HPF filtering, to produce a contrast with the muddy basses: brilliant shakers vs dark low pitch bass sounds.

At 1:06 a high reso, mechanic/motion sound appears. Sounds like underwater, thankz to 12 order filters like Fuzzi, UbuOrator, MeatyGizmo. they give a very resonant feeling. I use the combination of multiple clock dividers sent to Sample Retrigger function. t has a LFO sent to semitune, giving the feeling of ascending/descending pitch, wich produces a detuning, hypnotic effect while making contrast with the strict clock bass and kick beating.
The result of creating such complex gamma of user patches in a single pattern, provides easy access to an heterogeneous sound. The result is far more interesting than using simple factory sounds to compose music. Reprogramming the sounds of the Command Station is a MUST to obtain serious musical results wich can define your style as a producer/musician. This synthesizer is pure, fking gold. Such creativity process is literally impossible on many synths wich are far more expensive than the command station.
I composed this track yesterday, everything is fresh and set on the table, so I can respond any question about each one of the sounds used on it, and even isolate the sound and explain the individual tracks separately if somebody wants to know the programming methods used:
Old 27th November 2017
  #277
Lives for gear
 
boreg's Avatar
Balma, you rock! :synth :
Old 13th December 2017
  #278
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger001 View Post
i've attached a spreadsheet with all the sysex commands i've been able to retrieve, as you can see i'm missing a few (esp. for track mute 1/9)
-most of these are not in the 2.2 sysex manual-
if anybody has an idea, please share/update
It sounds like you have stumbled onto stuff that a number of us have discussed in the Yahoo XL-7 USer Group. There is a whole lot that is not documented in the manual. If you saw my post from about a month ago (re: the Jazz-Soft plug-in), I thing I mentioned possibly posting the web pages I have only on my PC. I have resources for sending every possible sysex value (00-7F) for the remote control and monitoring the sysex response. (Sometimes there are changes that don't give responses; sometimes there are responses. I also have commands that will turn the knob all the way left, all the way right, +1 and -1, and + 10 and -10.

I did not yet implement browser-based buttons to do multiple button presses, but that is possible, too.

I didn't push those pages to my site, but I could do that if you are interested in exploring.

I know on paper I mapped out all of the values that do stuff. As I recall, there is a logic to the sysex values that handle the 16 buttons. If I can find my stack of notes, I will scan and post it.

Maybe others will start getting into the untapped potential for E-Mu's remote control mode.

Steve

Steve
Old 13th December 2017
  #279
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mastaman View Post
I wonder if there is a sysex for selecting a track and make it active for recording. (same as shift+CH#) so that I could for instance select tracks with a midi foot pedal that can use sysex?? That would be great.

Also track mutes could be done with the midi command for volume +midi ch i guess.
I seem to recall there are remote control virtual buttons that cycle through the record modes. I believe there are also values for Track/Channel +/-.

That being said, it depends how many sysex bytes each pedal can send.

A word of caution, when remote control mode is engaged, knobs and buttons send out data when pushed or turned. I usually turn remote control on, do what I have to, then turn it off. But depending on your throughput, leaving remote control mode on all the time might not interfere.

Not sure if I mentioned it, but a while back I created remote control commands that when played from a DAW, they simulated successive button presses to create banks of randomized presets. To its possible to automate a series of button presses and knob turns that you would do manually.

Part of the technique involves initializing the panel to a known state. At that point, the correct virtual simulations can be done. However, if I were to tweak the knobs while the script was running, then the next virtual turn of the knob might be a different place for the script to keep working.

I think the general idea was:
(1) Get the panel to a known menu system
(2) Turn the knob (virtually) all the right then all the way left.
(3) Advance the knob the correct number of "clicks."
(4) Simulate the various button presses [randomize, save].
(5) Advance to the next memory location
--repeat steps 4 and 5

(This was years ago, but that's the general idea of what's involved.)

As for selecting a specific track for recording, if it is possible, you'd have to figure out a starting point, then the buttons you would press to make it happen manually, and then just code that into the sysex command.

Sorry if that's not 100% clear; its been years.

Steve
Old 13th December 2017
  #280
Gear Head
 

It looks like the last I worked on the remote control web pages was April 2016. It had some functionality for E4 machines, P2K machine, and Command Stations/P2500s. The paper notes are behind a few things; will take a while to get them out. I cannot test the web pages because the gear is not connected.

However, it looks for the browser buttons for the 16 buttons:

button 1 sends out F0 18 0F 00 55 40 20 03 00 08 F7
button 9 sends out F0 18 0F 00 55 40 20 21 00 08 F7

I think this is the order for the buttons:

Button 1 - . . . 03 00 08 F7
Button 2 - . . . 13 00 01 F7
Button 3 - . . . 23 00 01 F7
Button 4 - . . . 33 00 01 F7
Button 5 - . . . 43 00 01 F7
Button 6 - . . . 02 00 08 F7
Button 7 - . . . 12 00 01 F7
Button 8 - . . . 22 00 01 F7
Button 9 - . . . 21 00 08 F7
Button 10 - . . . 31 00 01 F7
Button 11 - . . . 41 00 01 F7
Button 12 - . . . 00 00 08 F7
Button 13 - . . . 10 00 08 F7
Button 14 - . . . 20 00 08 F7
Button 15 - . . . 30 00 08 F7
Button 16 - . . . 40 00 08 F7

Too tired to try to explain; this is just how I have it on the last web page which worked. You can see the logib in the button values:
01, 13, 13, 33, 43
02, 12, 22,
21, 31, 41,
00, 10, 20, 30, 40

IIRC, the button downs are sort-of bit-wise flags. So, some of them are 0001 and some are 1000 [or 1 and 8, respectively].

There are some buttons that down is simulated with 0010 [or 2].

The record mode button (if my web page is correct) is . . . 01 00 02 F7
The track/channel + button is . . . 4F 00 01 F7
The track/channel - button is . . . 3E 00 01 F7

I believe you can gang up the events, but there is a max--not sure if its a max of 127 bytes from F0 to F7, inclusive or something else.

But once an open remote control session has been opened, you can try it

. . . 20h, bb, bb, pp, F7h
. . . 20h, bb, bb, pp, 20h, bb, bb, pp, 20h, bb, bb, pp, F7h

e.g.

. . . 20 4F 00 10 4F 00 10 4F 00 10 F7 should (if I am reconstructing my web page correctly) simulate pressing the channel up button 3 times.

BTW, I have virtual buttons for the encode as follows:
[left/down] . . . 01 00 7F 7F F7 [7F 7F = nyblized -1 = 1 click counter clockwise
[right/up] . . . 01 00 01 00 F7
[left/down 128] . . . 01 00 00 7F F7 = 128 clicks counter clockwise
[right/up 128] . . . 01 00 00 01 F7 = 128 click clockwise
[left/down 1024] . . . 01 00 00 78 F7 = 1024 clicks counter clockwise
[right/up 1024] . . . 01 00 00 08 F7 = 1024 clicks clockwise

The 128 and 1024 simulated clicks are values to scroll banks with a single virtual button.

F0 18 0f 00 55 40 22 . . . = start of encoder simulation

Too tired to proofread or hook up gear to test. Apologies if I messed this up, but I think you get the idea of how simulated buttons and knobs work. It would be much clearer with web pages and the Jazz-Soft plug-in if you have your gear hooked up to a computer with round-trip midi.

Steve
Old 13th December 2017
  #281
Gear Maniac
great work steve - appreciated big
Old 13th December 2017
  #282
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Steve View Post
It looks like the last I worked on the remote control web pages was April 2016. It had some functionality for E4 machines, P2K machine, and Command Stations/P2500s. The paper notes are behind a few things; will take a while to get them out. I cannot test the web pages because the gear is not connected.

However, it looks for the browser buttons for the 16 buttons:

button 1 sends out F0 18 0F 00 55 40 20 03 00 08 F7
button 9 sends out F0 18 0F 00 55 40 20 21 00 08 F7

I think this is the order for the buttons:

Button 1 - . . . 03 00 08 F7
Button 2 - . . . 13 00 01 F7
Button 3 - . . . 23 00 01 F7
Button 4 - . . . 33 00 01 F7
Button 5 - . . . 43 00 01 F7
Button 6 - . . . 02 00 08 F7
Button 7 - . . . 12 00 01 F7
Button 8 - . . . 22 00 01 F7
Button 9 - . . . 21 00 08 F7
Button 10 - . . . 31 00 01 F7
Button 11 - . . . 41 00 01 F7
Button 12 - . . . 00 00 08 F7
Button 13 - . . . 10 00 08 F7
Button 14 - . . . 20 00 08 F7
Button 15 - . . . 30 00 08 F7
Button 16 - . . . 40 00 08 F7

Too tired to try to explain; this is just how I have it on the last web page which worked. You can see the logib in the button values:
01, 13, 13, 33, 43
02, 12, 22,
21, 31, 41,
00, 10, 20, 30, 40

IIRC, the button downs are sort-of bit-wise flags. So, some of them are 0001 and some are 1000 [or 1 and 8, respectively].

There are some buttons that down is simulated with 0010 [or 2].

The record mode button (if my web page is correct) is . . . 01 00 02 F7
The track/channel + button is . . . 4F 00 01 F7
The track/channel - button is . . . 3E 00 01 F7

I believe you can gang up the events, but there is a max--not sure if its a max of 127 bytes from F0 to F7, inclusive or something else.

But once an open remote control session has been opened, you can try it

. . . 20h, bb, bb, pp, F7h
. . . 20h, bb, bb, pp, 20h, bb, bb, pp, 20h, bb, bb, pp, F7h

e.g.

. . . 20 4F 00 10 4F 00 10 4F 00 10 F7 should (if I am reconstructing my web page correctly) simulate pressing the channel up button 3 times.

BTW, I have virtual buttons for the encode as follows:
[left/down] . . . 01 00 7F 7F F7 [7F 7F = nyblized -1 = 1 click counter clockwise
[right/up] . . . 01 00 01 00 F7
[left/down 128] . . . 01 00 00 7F F7 = 128 clicks counter clockwise
[right/up 128] . . . 01 00 00 01 F7 = 128 click clockwise
[left/down 1024] . . . 01 00 00 78 F7 = 1024 clicks counter clockwise
[right/up 1024] . . . 01 00 00 08 F7 = 1024 clicks clockwise

The 128 and 1024 simulated clicks are values to scroll banks with a single virtual button.

F0 18 0f 00 55 40 22 . . . = start of encoder simulation

Too tired to proofread or hook up gear to test. Apologies if I messed this up, but I think you get the idea of how simulated buttons and knobs work. It would be much clearer with web pages and the Jazz-Soft plug-in if you have your gear hooked up to a computer with round-trip midi.

Steve
Thank you so much, really helpful. Great info!! I understand it now (i think :D )...just need to get a good controller to put in the sysex into...i think i will use the lemur app or some ipad app...but that line6 midi interface on the ipad is so damn flakey. i may use the korg padkontrol in the future...there is a special sysex mode i hear, im also going to try the KM softstep.

A little sidenote:
i just tested my old proteus2000 module...and there is a feature i really miss (dont find?) on the command station. It is when the knobs control the sound parameters in the "preset" mode. Almost like soft buttons, knob A control the first setting on the screen knob B the second ...and so on...much much more enjoyable to edit sounds this way, than using the Cursor buttons i have used before...but i can not seem to get it to work on the command station...tried both the "quick edit" mode and the "program" mode on the knob selector...does not seem to work for me :/ well i guess i should plow thru the manual...doing so now, or is it not possible on the command station?

Really great thread!! Thanks for all the tips!
Old 13th December 2017
  #283
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mastaman View Post
Thank you so much, really helpful. Great info!! I understand it now (i think :D )...just need to get a good controller to put in the sysex into...i think i will use the lemur app or some ipad app...but that line6 midi interface on the ipad is so damn flakey. i may use the korg padkontrol in the future...there is a special sysex mode i hear, im also going to try the KM softstep.
Glad to hear it makes sense. Just to let you and others know: I hooked up the P2500 to a midi interface on the XP machine that has the web pages. The web-based buttons with the E-Mu remote control sysex codes work as I remembered them! (and explained above).

White the pages are very far from what I was planning to do before publishing them, there is enough there that it should be useful to people like you who have a grasp of remote control mode and can go over to the Jazz-Soft page and get the correct version of the plug-in if you want to try it in a browser.

There is a button to request a pattern dump (hard coded at the moment to whatever is at 000^0 IIRC) and to manually issue an ack. The idea with these was to eventually develop a web-based alternative to E-Loader--to get (and possibly send) patterns. It turns out that the more efficient route was to tell people to just find someone that had a computer which could run e-loader. So the request a pattern button is just a test-of-concept-thing--to see if the Jazz-Soft plug-in could be used to get patterns.

There are a number of the buttons in the "non-working" section that do work. Some don't.

Another application for all this web-based testing was as a substitute for people who had wonky encoders--the ones that don't scroll smoothly, jump all over the place, etc.

Anyhow, let me push the pages to my website. Even if you just browse the pages, I think it will help make sense of the enormous potential for E-Mu's remote control. It will be strictly no support promised, use at your own risk. As time permits, I would be happy to continue to make it more user accessible. I have some ideas for some video tutorials as well (OBS captures of me doing stuff with the virtual button and editing it into just the essentials of what it does and how it works. That might have to wait a few years, though

At this point I am mentioning it here because some of you can run with it based on what you already know about the E-Mu boxes and just seeing the web-pages.

Steve

Good News / Bad News:
I uploaded the Jazz-Soft based E-Mu Remote Control pages to my site. That's the good news. The bad news is, that I probably will not be able to get it to work with midi I/O on newer browsers without 90,000 or so hours of rewriting the pages. I started using the Jazz-Soft plug-in before WebMIDI, before Win 10, even before everyone abandoned XP. So, the tradeoff with "new and improved" operating systems, browsers, etc. is that things that used to work, don't.

So, you can see the pages (including comments, notes, virtual buttons, etc.) at http://www.e-univercity.com/SynthGea...RemoteControl/, however, you cannot slect midi I/O ports to see what the buttons do.

The folder is password protected. You can see the user ID and password at the main entry point to SynthGearDocs : Synth Gear Docs: An Archive . Its in the navigation panel. Please don't tell any bots.

PS: on the button matrix page, the different colors for the buttons mean different things in terms of E-Mu's Remote Control. The button values that are grey don't do anything. Some of the buttons do things and give a response, some of the buttons do things and don't give a response. Unfortunately at present the MIDI Input viewer doesn't work on today's "new and improved" browsers.

The non-local version does indeed work on the last version of Firefox that works on XP [just checked].

BTW, on the button matrix page, I believe green means that 01, 02, 00, and 08 all do the same thing. Reminder: these pages were never intended to be published until I got it all sorted out; they are still tools for sorting out what works and what doesn't.

Last edited by Dr. Steve; 14th December 2017 at 01:56 AM.. Reason: to add an update
Old 14th December 2017
  #284
Here for the gear
 

I looked at your web remote controller, impressive work Steve! I will for sure keep it in my bookmarks for later reference!

I wonder if it would be possible to make it work like the proteus2000 with the knobs working as "soft buttons" with external controller...my biggest gripe with the command station is flipping thru menus with the slow blinking cursor, then use the skippy encoder...with the proteus2000 i just turn the third knob from the left if i want to change the third parameter from the left on the screen...so much better (proteus only have 4 knobs but there are usually not more than 4 params per menu). I did think of doing a little arduino thing hooked up under the screen and install 4 softbuttons just to make the navigation more easy...but that will most likely remain a dream

Have to test if there are any performance problems with the remote mode or if it is only midi bandwidth...i actually made the command station freeze when i was recording midi cc# values from the bass station2 (it has some NRP messages, maybe that was why?!?!) It would freeze after 5 or 6 knobs where recorded into the command.st sequencer :/ ...i feel like it is close to its limits when pushed.

Thanks
Old 14th December 2017
  #285
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mastaman View Post
I wonder if it would be possible to make it work like the proteus2000 with the knobs working as "soft buttons" with external controller...my biggest gripe with the command station is . . . [snip]
I have dabbled with an arduino (outputting midi data) and some sliders enough to have in my mind's eye (and some written notes, too) the creation of a realtime external controller (sliders and buttons) as a substitute for front panel/menu flipping editing and performing.

Aside, but related: I also dabbled with Ctrlr to make a software panel to turn on and off 32 arps on a 1 RU P2K variant, each with a CC slider outputting expression to control the relative volume of each arp. Could be done via a browser, too, I believe. Imagine also buttons [software or hardware] to give any 1RU P2 variant beats triggers. I believe proteum has this; not sure if prodatum does. In either case, you could have different setups for the beats (configurable, recallable, etc.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mastaman View Post
Have to test if there are any performance problems with the remote mode or if it is only midi bandwidth...i actually made the command station freeze when i was recording midi cc# values from the bass station2 (it has some NRP messages, maybe that was why?!?!) It would freeze after 5 or 6 knobs where recorded into the command.st sequencer :/ ...i feel like it is close to its limits when pushed.
Yes--potential for way too much midi data--incoming and outgoing!!!! For outgoind data, that's why I suggested (esp. for performing and recording) if using an external controller having each button turn RC on, doing its function, and then turning it off. I discovered that in RC mode, my master volume know would send out a constant stream of data at anything other than off or full.

As for sending too much data coming into the CS (like the NRPs, maybe), can you filter them out before they get to the CS?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mastaman View Post
Thanks
Hope its helpful. As I age, I am reminded of my mortality and am delighted to have someone who might be able to use what amounts to hundreds (maybe thousands) of hours of exploration. Yes, it was fun doing it, but if others can make use of it, icing on the cake of life!
Old 14th December 2017
  #286
Gear Head
 

Hope this picture makes the explanations clearer.



Addendum: 2017-12-17:
I have started to test a few more sysex commands (Remote Control and regular sysex). Still using the old Jazz-Soft plug-in. Might see if I can rewrite the pages to work with newer browsers, but there's a huge learning curve there. Just started testing Copy Pattern and Copy Song sysex commands (to the edit buffer). Not 100% sure those will be useful if in fact they work at all. On the other hand, copying a preset to the edit buffer seems to work; attempting to copy arp patterns and arp parameters to the edit buffer doesn't work.

Update: 2017-12-27:
I have started to look into updating the web-based functionality; there is some potential to use Jazz-Soft's newest library which makes use of Web MIDI and seems to work with chrome's current browser (unfortunately, not FF).
I discovered a short while ago that Opera also supports Web MIDI and the use of Jazz-Soft's JZZ.js library. There is evidence that post v.57 Firefox might someday have a Web MIDI extension. So, as timer permits, I will attempt to tweak the browser-based sysex web-pages so they work in newer browsers. Thanks to everyone who showed an interest in E-Mu's Remote Control sysex.

Last edited by Dr. Steve; 17th December 2017 at 06:51 PM.. Reason: to update status of posted web resource and testing
Old 14th December 2017
  #287
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Steve View Post
Aside, but related: I also dabbled with Ctrlr to make a software panel to turn on and off 32 arps on a 1 RU P2K variant, each with a CC slider outputting expression to control the relative volume of each arp.
Here's an image of the Ctrlr panel showing the software arps controls for C01A->C16A. With a second panel for C01B->C16B, turning arps on and off and adjusting their relative volume was rather simple--and easier to see which ones were on and which ones were off than any other method I tried. (from 2013).

Old 1st January 2018
  #288
Gear Maniac
has anybody with a PRO/CUSSION tried to insert the ROM's into a P2k based module?
Old 4th January 2018
  #289
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger001 View Post
has anybody with a PRO/CUSSION tried to insert the ROM's into a P2k based module?
Not me. I did put a P2500 ROM in an Ultra Sampler and managed to kill the P2K-style presets. If functions as an EROM SIMM in the sampler (v1.3, IIRC), but there is no way to re-flash the P2500 presets without a special device E-Mu used to have. If I had a PRO/CUSSION ROM, I probably would not put it into a more modern ROMPLER.
Old 19th January 2018
  #290
Gear Maniac
man i wish i knew how to send sysex commandos like "thin events cc37" ; that would make editing the pattern a lot smoother
Old 22nd January 2018
  #291
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger001 View Post
man i wish i knew how to send sysex commandos like "thin events cc37" ; that would make editing the pattern a lot smoother
I have wondered if there might be undocumented commands to do some of those sequencer editing functions. I rather doubt it.

However, if you can jot down the steps you would use when editing it from the editor, you might be able to use remote control mode to simulate the steps.

Steve
Old 22nd January 2018
  #292
Gear Maniac
well, i have noticed that when in remote control mode (every knob press sends out the appropriate sysex command) that there is no output when editing in the sequencer
Old 29th January 2018
  #293
Gear Addict
 

Hi

I was so jealous when I saw this thread started many moons ago - I sold my XL7 in 2005 to cover my rent and have pined for one ever since.

I just purchased one - welcoming myself to the club and looking forward to using these amazing tutorials- thank you in advance
Old 13th February 2018
  #294
Gear Addict
 

So mines arrived (XL7) and is as glorious as I remember it. Complete with main jumpy encoder - which I actually don’t mind as it’s a bit nostalgic struggling to navigate without leaping backward and forward randomly. Sure that novelty will wear off pretty quick...

A bit off topic from the tutorials but I’d like to hear if anybody is using theirs in a live set up and how they go about performing with it. Also what other gear are people using with it? What plays nice alongside. I used to pair mine with an sp808 but dread the idea of using Zip disks again
Old 21st February 2018
  #295
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger001 View Post
well, i have noticed that when in remote control mode (every knob press sends out the appropriate sysex command) that there is no output when editing in the sequencer
This is mostly true.* I also discovered on my P2500 that when the Master Volume is less than full, there is some jitter and miniscule knob movement data also gets sent.

I usually turn Remote Control on when I need it and then off for normal usage, such as real-time performances. On the P2500 I have pattern slots with embedded sysex commands as follows:

125^7 RemoteControlOFF
126^7 RemoteControlON
127^7 RemoteControlOFF

I have found this is the quickest way to turn it off.

*There is a problem with the RC return values for the 4 x 4 knob matrix [MidiA -> MidiP]. I believe the RC Mode was not properly updated for the P2500/Command Stations, at least with OS2.0. Only the top row transmits RC data; rows 2 -> 4 do not. Also, I am not sure if all of the buttons transmit RC values (or transmits them correctly).

Addendum: I will have to double check to see if edit mode turns off RC. I don't think I looked tat that before. Thanks for mentioning it.
Update 1: To test, I dialed up a pattern, entered Edit > Pattern mode, selected edit notes [panel buttons transmitted RC], and then went to the Thin Events tool. All buttons transmitted RC until I got to SELECT TRACKS Press Enter When Done . . . menu.

The 8 x 2 trigger/mute buttons do not transmit RC Data. IIRC I had to discover the values to send to the E-Mu to make the different 8 x 2 buttons work. I should have a color coded matrix on paper or in a spreadsheet that differentiates some of the differences--some buttons/knob transmit when pressed/turned, some issue a meaningful reply when activated remotely, etc.

In post #280 (above) when I mention what sysex the browser buttons send, that was not meant to imply that the front panel buttons will also send that sysex. If I said that, I will edit the post.

I am not setup with round-trip midi between my PC and P2500, but I do believe it would be possible to set up a remote control sysex chain to simulate very specific front panel editing--say for example to thin certain CCs by certain amounts for certain tracks.

Also, when I was originally doing the RC stuff, I used a version of cakewalk that let me edit and name sysex banks. I broke down the RC sysex command into specific functions. In this way, I could try to break down the commands to do each of the steps in the THIN EVENTS process. If I positioned the cursor on the CC# parameter and had a separate advance-the-big-knob-one-click sysex command [and other separate commands for the process] I believe I could create a midi sequencer that would call the various sysex commands in a desired order to this all CCs.

Using this method, I created a midi file chain of RC sysex commands in cakewalk that would "play" the midi stream so as to randomize and save 64 preset in user memory starting with wherever I manually set the display. So, if I wanted to create 128 randomized presets in user preset bank 1 starting at preset 000, I would dial up 000^1 manually and then "play" the RC command chain twice.

If I wanted to eradicate ALL of my user presets, I could set the front panel to 000^0 and either run the the midi chain of sysex commands from the sequencer eight times, or loop the sequencer, etc. This worked because I carefully crafted my starting and ending points. The process was designed to it could be run consecutively to randomize and save to the next user slot. It's just like programming offsets, loop counters, etc.

I deliberately chose not to release the midi file (which I believe could have been embedded into a P2500/CS) because I was afraid someone might unintentionally trash valued user preset banks and then try to blame me. (That's why I say "Make sure to back up your presets/sequences first . . . .)

If you were to tray to automate the thinning process, I would strongly urge you to not have the process start at pattern 000^0 and run automatically through all 8 banks for all CCs for an amount of 128.

When I can I will try to break the thinning process down, fragment the steps, and try my hand at chaining the steps into a midi sequence, if you think it would be helpful. A month ago I erased all of my patterns (and re-uploaded the RC ones), so I can easily create some dummy patterns laden with CCs to test the process without fear of decimating some important sequences.

Last edited by Dr. Steve; 21st February 2018 at 05:10 PM.. Reason: to add an addendum
Old 21st February 2018
  #296
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansaispirits View Post
A bit off topic from the tutorials but I’d like to hear if anybody is using theirs in a live set up and how they go about performing with it. Also what other gear are people using with it? What plays nice alongside.
Between 2009 and a few years ago, I used to do live performances on a streaming radio station. For the most part, I used the P2500 as a performance module, that is, (1) controlling presets via the 4 x 4 knob panel (mostly for CC manipulation of preset parameters, sometimes to mix levels of layers of sound on different channels) and (2) playing arps and one-shot sounds via the 16 buttons as triggers. Also, I like using the P2500 as a master BPM clock for connected gear.

Mostly, though, I have used a usb/midi keyboard to layer sounds (textural stuff) and arp patterns on up to 16 channels by just changing the channel on the keyboard. I like sliders which my evolution keyboard has (9 sliders). I generally use them for the same parameters on presets, so I can intuitively go to the slider I want. Two of the knobs I have set to CC7 and CC10; one is set up for CC64--because I can see my hands better than my feet. (For me it makes turning sustained channels off fairly easy as I scroll the keyboard through 16 channels.

I have never mastered XMIX or Grid Mode, but I have heard of people using those in a live performance. Once or twice I test drove layering patterns on different channels in record mode--basically using the P2500 as a midi looper, but I never mastered the technique to be comfortable with it on-the-fly. For me creating pattern-based tunes (basically as a midi multi-track recorder) doing overdubs with stops in-between layers, that is not a problem. However, in a real-time performance, for me it takes my focus away from the on-the-fly continuity.

For one performance I had some of the 4 x 4 knobs controlling parameters in an ART Effects box. That worked well for me. Also, I have test driven using the P2500 patterns and arps to play external gear, which I could do in a performance, but mostly I use the internal sounds.

Hope this helps.

Steve
Old 22nd February 2018
  #297
Here for the gear
 

pattern play

I have a Mp7 Command station, with the Lead, Construction ROMS. I am more of a House/techno type versus hip hop/urban...so the Mp7 preset patterns aren't my cup of tea..is there a way to get/play the XL7 patterns on my MP7 with the ROMs I have, or is it a chipset on the board, so I am out of luck, unless I buy a XL7. Do the addes ROMS only have patches and no patterns on them?
Thanks
Old 22nd February 2018
  #298
Lives for gear
 
abruzzi's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mosrite1 View Post
I have a Mp7 Command station, with the Lead, Construction ROMS. I am more of a House/techno type versus hip hop/urban...so the Mp7 preset patterns aren't my cup of tea..is there a way to get/play the XL7 patterns on my MP7 with the ROMs I have, or is it a chipset on the board, so I am out of luck, unless I buy a XL7. Do the addes ROMS only have patches and no patterns on them?
Thanks
The patterns are not in ROM, they are saved in RAM. If you deleted all the hip hop patterns on your MP7 then did a factory reset, they wouldn't come back.

The yahoo group has all the XL7 patterns. You need to sign up for the xl7 group, and once you're approved, go into the files section and look for the zip file with the xl7 patterns. Then you need to use the USB connection and the E-mu software to load them.

the groups is here:

Yahoo! Groups

Eloader 1.1 for windows:

https://francisfisher.me.uk/emulegac....1_Install.zip
https://francisfisher.me.uk/emulegac...tionManual.pdf

EDIT: forgot to add that for the patterns to work, all you need is the XL7 ROM installed. I don't know if they will work with the XL1 ROM, since I don't know if the XL1 ROM identifies itself differently.
Old 22nd February 2018
  #299
Here for the gear
 

Thanks, if I can figure this out it will save me from buying a XL7 unit..I do have the XLEAD ROM installed, is that the right one? I think so...I also have the PROM1 ROM installed..is there a different XL7 ROM that I need to get and don't have? thanks again
Old 23rd February 2018
  #300
Here for the gear
 

Did it

I completed turning my Mp7 into a Lx7 awesome..thanks for the help..luckily I still had a XP laptop, the loader didn't work on my windows 10, or windows 7 computer..I'm excited to explore the Command Station..it's been sitting on the shelf for a long time, as I have other gear..but this might move on up to the top..
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