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Are hardware ONLY groovesynths and grooveboxes now dead and just a part of history? Drum Machines & Samplers
Old 18th July 2014
  #91
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mpresev's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by balma View Post
Yeah I also predict the "grooveboxes" will also have a reborn....

rumba samba mamboooo
Jesus, I just ask, just need a little bit of luck....

he did get good comments on utube


Casio heh
Old 18th July 2014
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slaughtrhaus View Post
I have one. It has a broken screen, got it stupid cheap ($35). I'm planning on fixing and flipping it but not before exploring it deeper. Sounds like techno/trance in a box from the presets...
I wanted one because I didn't have a proper keyboard and this one was the MC505 with a keyboard.. Get it fixed and flip it.
Old 18th July 2014
  #93
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[YOUTUBE]<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/kKvUuSxUjkg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>/YOUTUBE]


BTW, i'm not sure but is the Yamaha CS2X/CS1X a groovebox or a hybrid rompler/groovebox?
Old 18th July 2014
  #94
165099
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpresev View Post
BTW, i'm not sure but is the Yamaha CS2X/CS1X a groovebox or a hybrid rompler/groovebox?
all of the original grooveboxes (MC-303/505 and RM1x, etc..) were ROMplers and no, the Yamaha CS1X and CS2X are not grooveboxes because they're keyboards, the "box" word being the key here. if it isn't in a desktop format, it isn't a groovebox.
Old 18th July 2014
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 165099 View Post
all of the original grooveboxes (MC-303/505 and RM1x, etc..) were ROMplers and no, the Yamaha CS1X and CS2X are not grooveboxes because they're keyboards, the "box" word being the key here. if it isn't in a desktop format, it isn't a groovebox.
oh ok.. in that case


1. Yamaha DX200?
2. Yamaha AN200?
3. Roland TB3?

BTW, is the AN200/DX200 worth it?

I'd luv to try the Korg EM1X
Old 18th July 2014
  #96
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the dx200 is if you get it for a good price and the left the plg card in, i love morphing between the 2 fm sounds, on the drum side it has what is like a really primitive parameter locking feature per step that is kinda' cool
Old 18th July 2014
  #97
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I think the OP works for Casio, or confused the term "groovebox" with the "drummachines"?

"groovebox" was a line of romplers with no keyboard, sequencer onboard and sounds aimed to the dance area, released by Roland. MC303,307,505, D2 and 909.

The common denomination for synths with no desktop and a sequencer included is drummachine. however, some synths with no keyboard can apparent to be drummachines and they are desktop synthesizers, or even some desktop synths with sequencing included, are not aimed to "drum" sounds...

Anyway, if you think the Roland "grooveboxes" are part of the history, yeah they are, I had them all in the past, and today I would help to put more dirt over them with a shovel....
Old 18th July 2014
  #98
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I do think on "paper", the best GROOVEBOX right now is the


ARTURIA ORIGIN
Old 18th July 2014
  #99
165099
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpresev View Post
I do think on "paper", the best GROOVEBOX right now is the


ARTURIA ORIGIN
sure, aside from it not being a groovebox ...I can see that.

if it isn't a "dance"-oriented desktop workstation, it isn't a groovebox.

bass synths with pattern sequencers like the TB-3 are also not a groovebox just as the Two-Voice and the SH-101 aren't either.

this isn't that hard.
Old 18th July 2014
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 165099 View Post
this isn't that hard.
Sure it is, which is why there are already several pages on this thread. Here is what I gather do far...

Generally Accepted "Groovebox" checklist
Tabletop Factor
Sequencer
Pattern memory
Controls oriented towards live performance
Sonic pallet focused on dance music

***************************

Here is where people seem deviate.

"Groovebox: The Original Roland Marketing Definition" Camp
Single box has multiple instrumentation with ability to cut a complete track (MC Line, QuasiMidi 309, Tempest, Elektron, etc)

"Groove Ecosystem" Camp
Definition extended to include single-function boxes designed to work with similar single-function boxes as part of a "groove ecosystem" (OG Roland XoX machines, Airas, Volcas, Yammy AN/DX 200, Electribes, etc)

"Groove Key" Camp
Definition extended to small keyboard form factor while retaining salient "groove" sequencer features (BSII, Brute, etc)

Anyway, it's a fun conversation. If nothing else, it's cool to see the gear people consider "groove."
Old 18th July 2014
  #101
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Amidst all the debate about what a groovebox is- some have still not answered the fundamental question of the thread:

Have hardware only grooveboxes with hardwired sound (such as EMX-1) been permanently replaced by loop and sample holding devices such as "Push", "Maschine" and their like?

IOW- have fixed sound devices been replaced by digital dropboxes that favor loops and single shot samples you can swap out on a laptop?

There is a subtle but important difference when creating a groove by manipulating patterns of set drums and arps vs. triggering loops. Playing on an old school groovebox like the 303 has a different feel to it than using a Launchpad. The gear tends to push the player into different composition ideas. Some things are easier on a 303 and some are easier on a Launchpad- it affects what you compose.

I guess the concern I had when I wrote the OP was that I am not sure it is a good thing that EVERYTHING becomes based on pushing squares. I am worried that the big boys like Roland, Yamaha, etc. have bailed out on making hardware only devices and these are now music museum pieces.
Old 18th July 2014
  #102
227861
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That's why there is always a vintage market demand.

Companies go a route, all other companies follow, everything changes because of this, workflow, quality, music creation, everything.

You can always go back to the vintage market and get what you liked back then because they won't make it now.
Old 18th July 2014
  #103
165099
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lune View Post
Amidst all the debate about what a groovebox is- some have still not answered the fundamental question of the thread:

Have hardware only grooveboxes with hardwired sound (such as EMX-1) been permanently replaced by loop and sample holding devices such as "Push", "Maschine" and their like?

IOW- have fixed sound devices been replaced by digital dropboxes that favor loops and single shot samples you can swap out on a laptop?

There is a subtle but important difference when creating a groove by manipulating patterns of set drums and arps vs. triggering loops. Playing on an old school groovebox like the 303 has a different feel to it than using a Launchpad. The gear tends to push the player into different composition ideas. Some things are easier on a 303 and some are easier on a Launchpad- it affects what you compose.

I guess the concern I had when I wrote the OP was that I am not sure it is a good thing that EVERYTHING becomes based on pushing squares. I am worried that the big boys like Roland, Yamaha, etc. have bailed out on making hardware only devices and these are now music museum pieces.
No, it has been answered ad nauseum.

not everything is based on pushing squares and a DAW such as Live handles MIDI patterns just as well as audio loops and your "digital dropbox" analogy is baseless, this has been addressed and isn't worth hammering on any longer.

but yes, ultimately a device like the MC-505 which was filled with prefab loops/patterns has since been replaced by Acid and Fruity Loops and Live and Garageband, etc... they're cheaper, easier and quicker at providing instant satisfaction. I'm not at all implying that the 505 isn't a real instrument, it very much is, just as the DAWs mentioned are also serious environments for creation, but what we're really talking about is the instant gratification of playing at being a "musician" for whatever that means.

and again, No, hardware groove boxes haven't been permanently replaced by software as many here have pointed out. Elektron have made an entire business on the idea and there are many others still releasing comparable products. I suppose the one difference here is that most of these aren't as stuffed full of the prefabricated rhythms and take some actual work instead of just pressing buttons and twisting knobs.
Old 18th July 2014
  #104
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curious on that rhythm wolf, some drums and a bass synth sounds pretty groove boxical to me
Old 19th July 2014
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robotunes View Post

you couldn't have made money selling them because the first person who bought one would go online and just start giving them away.

.
Well people sell presets & soundbanks... I'm sure there will be a lot of "sharing going on, but there's some honest folks out there. Native - instruments are probably making quite a bit with there expansion packs & Propellerhead are still churning out refills. So the market is/was there.
Old 19th July 2014
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naugo View Post
Just imagine how stoned those guys were sitting around a conference table laughing it up, trying to come up with a good name when mr. genius who was probably the boss goes "What about Beat Thaanngg" and the whole room wanting to get paid goes "OMG it's perffeccttt!!"
Then they made it look like a toy. Hard to take it serious with that name & those looks, but it's a serious piece of kit.
Old 19th July 2014
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naugo View Post
Just imagine how stoned those guys were sitting around a conference table laughing it up, trying to come up with a good name when mr. genius who was probably the boss goes "What about Beat Thaanngg" and the whole room wanting to get paid goes "OMG it's perffeccttt!!"
Then they made it look like a toy. Hard to take it serious with that name & those looks, but it's a serious piece of kit.
Old 19th July 2014
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naugo View Post
Just imagine how stoned those guys were sitting around a conference table laughing it up, trying to come up with a good name when mr. genius who was probably the boss goes "What about Beat Thaanngg" and the whole room wanting to get paid goes "OMG it's perffeccttt!!"
It looks like something someone's mom gets them from spencer's gifts or radio shack.
Old 19th July 2014
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpresev View Post
anyone have experience with ROland JX305?
awful keyboard (aftertouch was basically an on/off affair), bad sample rate on the outputs (sounded boxy, thinner, more compressed, mid-rangey, and more "canned" than the 505), and it lacked all the features of the 505 (other than the number of outputs, the specifics escape me).

i owned a 505 and an xp10 back in the day and thought the jx305 would combine them. so for a time, i had the 505 and the jx305 side by side. they were not in the same league.
Old 19th July 2014
  #110
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robotunes's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lune View Post
Amidst all the debate about what a groovebox is- some have still not answered the fundamental question of the thread:

Have hardware only grooveboxes with hardwired sound (such as EMX-1) been permanently replaced by loop and sample holding devices such as "Push", "Maschine" and their like?

IOW- have fixed sound devices been replaced by digital dropboxes that favor loops and single shot samples you can swap out on a laptop?

There is a subtle but important difference when creating a groove by manipulating patterns of set drums and arps vs. triggering loops. Playing on an old school groovebox like the 303 has a different feel to it than using a Launchpad. The gear tends to push the player into different composition ideas. Some things are easier on a 303 and some are easier on a Launchpad- it affects what you compose.

I guess the concern I had when I wrote the OP was that I am not sure it is a good thing that EVERYTHING becomes based on pushing squares. I am worried that the big boys like Roland, Yamaha, etc. have bailed out on making hardware only devices and these are now music museum pieces.
i expect roland and korg to come out eventually with standalone grooveboxes that easily plug into the ITB workflow (midi/audio over usb; software editors).

there has to be a reason that the EMX and ESX are no longer in production.
Old 19th July 2014
  #111
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7Wave's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpresev View Post
Speaking GROOVEBOXES.. I Was excited when the ROland JX305(keyboard version of MC505) came out. I went straight to the store when Sam Ash had it.


Those are classics btw..


anyone have experience with ROland JX305?

I actually like the JX-305. It has the same JV sound engine as the MC-505 (I own both) and an expanded wave ROM -- something like an additional 2 mb of acoustic sounds. The keybed is nothing to write home about, but it's a lot easier to play than the MC-505, unless you have a MIDI controller hooked up to it.

The 305 has two audio outputs compared the 505's six, and it lacks the Megamix feature and the octave sub frequency boost function. But it's still a fun groovesynth, and you can coax some good sounds out of it if you're willing to take the time to program it. I don't use mine much anymore, but I still like the concept of it and bring it out now and then for fun.

I never bought the MC-505 or JX-305 for what I would consider "serious" music. They're just for fun. Back when I got them 15 years ago, I'd use them for live remixing and playing with beats and bass lines, etc. The filtering is limited but fun -- you are after all just filtering samples, so if you're accustomed to analogs and true VAs you'll notice the limits there. But putting together a beat with the onboard 808 or 909 samples (which I always thought were quite nice) and a bass line, etc., is still a lot of fun.

I always thought the 505 and 305 played nicely with the original Electribes and Yamaha grooveboxes (AN and DX), since each fills certain gaps of the other.

None of it holds a candle to what the MC909, RS7000, or Maschine can do, but imagination and creativity can make up for a lot. And the 505/305 can do some great things if you're into minimalist forms of EDM.
Old 19th July 2014
  #112
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here's a few you all might have forgotten about...??














Old 19th July 2014
  #113
Gear Guru
Haha... I'd love to challenge myself and make an album with just the EG-101 .. what a piece of ****...
Old 19th July 2014
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djugel View Post
Haha... I'd love to challenge myself and make an album with just the EG-101 .. what a piece of ****...
Just give plenty of warning before you post it up.lol
Old 19th July 2014
  #115
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fiddlestickz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by djugel View Post
Haha... I'd love to challenge myself and make an album with just the EG-101 .. what a piece of ****...
from memory it can sample can't it...??

anything that can sample can make hit records...i'd like to be restricted to just it and make a track actually...restrictions really gets the creative juices flowing
Old 19th July 2014
  #116
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Wasn't the first the Rave-O-lution 309?

Mate had one was quite good if I remember correctly

Pretty lame name
Old 19th July 2014
  #117
VST
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Those Rave-o-lutions were kind of ubiquitous in the 90s early rave scene. sounded pretty good as I remember.
Old 19th July 2014
  #118
165099
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thong View Post
Wasn't the first the Rave-O-lution 309?

Mate had one was quite good if I remember correctly

Pretty lame name
It may have been. If I remember correctly both it and the MC-303 released in '96 ...regardless, it is definitely the better machine.
Old 19th July 2014
  #119
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Blackbelt Jones's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 165099 View Post
It may have been. If I remember correctly both it and the MC-303 released in '96 ...regardless, it is definitely the better machine.
Yeah, the 309 came out in 96. It was hard to find in the US.

Outside of drum circles and the occasional live drummer, I never saw live instruments @ raves in Chicago / Milwaukee the early 90s. Just turntables, sound systems and "intellibeams."
Old 19th July 2014
  #120
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fiddlestickz's Avatar
I remember them they were available in London pretty liberally at Turnkey....Quasimidi also released a midi controller keyboard from memory too, it was red I think..?

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