They are the same oscillators. Both do saw/square.

With regards to the filter they are also the same. I have not tried a Crave before but if the filter on that can be overdriven (it can't be on the Mother 32 or Werkstatt) then that could definitely be seen as better based on personal preference.

I had heard the m32 has a different square to other Moogs on muffs, not going to argue if an owner of both says otherwise!

I just realized that the CV expander doesn't strictly replicate all the CV connection of the main unit: it only has 12 jacks, while the Werkstatt has 20 breadboard connectors, most of the CV outs are duplicated.

In a way that makes it a great little CV hub, but only when using breadboard wires...what's the sense of it? Is there any other equipment that can be readily interfaced with it? The only one that immediately comes to mind is the Volca Modular...

I wish I could "like" this post more than once. So true.

Any hint about this? Actually the manual specifies
Why would they provide a 3.5mm breakout CV Expander if the Werkstatt is not designed to be connected to other CV units? It just sounds like a bunch of disclaimers like "If you're a modular synth novice and fry your Werkstatt with a wrong connection, it's not our fault!"

For what it's worth, I have the original version and the new one.

A couple of facts:

The 2020 edition is a new production run and the board is marked "RevB" while the Moogfest 2014 version is RevA. The key difference between the two is the RevB has a proper Gate In. I've auditioned them side by side and they sound identical. Which is good - this is a fat little mono synth.

The only real downside is that the coarse tuning control has a huge range and is hard to dial in, but once it's warmed up, it stays locked in.

All of the talk of the Werkstatt-01 not playing well with modular 1V/oct gear is way off base. You may need to calibrate the Werkstatt-01 to track properly, but that's easy and well documented.

My opinions:

It's a Moog and has 'that' sound - you love it or you don't. I think it's a fun, cool and useful little toy and worth every penny of the $199 asking price and I don't believe the kit aspect is a gimmick or cost cutting measure at all. The packaging and presentation is top notch and clearly not cheap and the simple assembly process draws you in.

The point of the Werkstatt-01 is to be a platform for experimentation. It's easily modified and there are scores of project ideas on the web for adding features and tweaking. Personally I like mine as-is, so will be leaving it stock!

I believe this is referring to the onboard pin matrix that's single pin connection (for patching to breadboards for instance) and doesn't supply ground. The CV expander is grounded to the chassis by 2 screws and of course CV cables are tip/sleeve so it's no issue.

Totally true, I didn't think that the dupont cables lack a ground connection. So without using the CV Expander and by providing a common grounding (like connecting to the same mixer, as Moog suggests) it's possible to interface via the breadboard cables a Werkstatt with, say, a Volca Modular? I think that would make for some very interesting sonic possibilities.

I thought about getting a Volca Modular but went for a different hybrid approach. I'm using my 2020 Werkstatt with a Keystep 37 and an ipad running Mirack (vcvrack port). That adds a whole lot flexibility. There's like 500 modules in Mirack...including popular stuff like Mutable, Befaco, etc.

The Keystep can send up to 16 midi CC from the knobs (4x4 banks), so I have hands on control of the virtual eurorack modules. Only 2 CV outs using the ipad headphone jack though, but I have a cheap ($50) midi-to-CV converter coming that should give me 4 more CV outs from the ipad. No CV input on the ipad either. The workaround I've found is to send midi out from the Keystep to function as pitch/gate input into MiRack while also sending CV out from both the Keystep and ipad to the Moog. It works as one big system.

Off the top of my head, there's BASTL stuff (Kastle and Bitranger), the Anywhere Instruments Tinysizer and Minisizer (though if you can afford a Tinysizer I doubt you'd find anything really thrilling on the Werkstatt)

It's best to think of the DuPont cables as very small banana plugs (funny, since the infamous Chimera BC-16 uses 2mm 'mini' banana cables -- the DuPont are even smaller and more delicate!). You will need to ground the two pieces of equipment you are patching together -- it doesn't necessarily need to be through one of the DuPont jacks... even connecting the outputs of the two synths together on a mixer should give you a common ground between them. Worst case, you could attach an alligator clip to the metal chassis or sleeve of any external jack on each of the synths and you'd be fine.

edit: I'm surprised the Tinysizer didn't catch on more. It's an incredible amount of functionality packed into a small space: https://www.anyware-instruments.de/s...ore/tinysizer/

Worth keeping in mind this was being made a good decade ago and totally presaged both the main analog revival** and the explosion in the popularity and ubiquity of Eurorack.

** I consider the MS-20 mini and the Minibrute in 2012 to be the main start of the analog revival. Yes, Dave Smith, Moog and MFB had been doing their thing for years but Korg and Arturia gave the industry a kick in the pants and a sizable wedgie to boot.

I think Moog solved that issue with adding a proper GATE IN to the 2020 version. I use my 2020 Werkstatt with a Keystep 37 and there's no difference in volume between CV gate and the on board keyboard.

Aside from the slight limitation of 5 "safe" octaves, due to CV range difference between Moog and Arturia products (-5 to 5v compared to 0-10v) everything works perfectly between the two.

Mine was more than a bit off and definitely needed calibration, but after that it works perfectly.
I hooked it up to my KARP, and tuning is great across the whole range: 7 octaves from the keyboard+octave switch, plus bending. The extreme notes were off by maximum 10-12 cents, which is normal for a VCO (and very hard to notice at such extreme ranges which border on the inaudible).

I need another monosynth like a hole in the head, and yet I'm drawn to this thing. Moog sound for $200, almost a no brainer.

It would work nicely as an expander for my Neutron.

OTOH, Mother-32 is the same thing but with more features including midi and a sequencer. At a higher price (outside my impulse purchase price limit).

As kpatz said, I needed another mono like I need a hole in the head, but... semi-modular Moog for 200€? I just couldn't resist

I'm impressed by how big this thing sounds for such a simple single-osc mono: the PWM is HUGE!
While I was at it, I pimped it with some knobs from Thonk. Now it really looks much better and it's much easier to dial in fine adjustments, especially on the VCO FREQ knob with its huge range.

There's something about Moog sound, they just sound amazing no matter what. At least I feel that way about my Sirin. But HUGE PWM makes me want this as my Sirin lacks PWM entirely.

And it looks great with those knobs! They should have included knobs in the kit. Do you have a link to the source of these knobs?

I still am intrigued by this thing. My Neutron is great, but its digital side is noisy including the CV, which makes it more gritty and less smooth. Moog is great for smooth, but my Sirin lacks PWM. Decisions, decisions.

For those with one, what are you using for CV/Gate control? Also, is it true that glide doesn't work with the CV, only the little keyboard? Seems to be an odd limitation.

Yes I also have a Sirin and it's a pity that it lacks PWM, it otherwise sounds amazing!
But I am genuinely surprised by the sound of the Werkstatt: full, round, smooth and powerful: now I understand much better the success of the Mother32 (which is essentially the same synth), even with its cost and limitations!

I purchased them from Thonk. They have a "Werkstatt kit"
https://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/werkstatt/
but it's nothing specific, it's made of their standard knobs that they also sell separately
https://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/synth-pointer-knobs/
In the kit they give you 10 "Mini" knobs, but I found that their "Small" knobs fit well in the upper row without covering the panel markings, and are definitely more beautiful and moog-like. Unfortunately they're too big for the 2nd and 3rd row of potentiometers, they would cover most of the markings.
So I ordered 4 Small and 6 Mini knobs, together with 10 brass adapters: done!

I play it from a KARP Odyssey which is actually a pretty good controller: the CV jack outputs pitch, glide, pitch bend and octave shift. But it's true that the W-01 internal glide is overridden when you use the CV IN, so you have to provide that externally from your CV controller.

A Mother32 combined with Werkstatt would be killer... two VCOs, two envelopes, two filters and two LFOs and all the patching possibilities, for a lot less money than two Mother-32s.Cool beans, thanks. I'll have to see if they have knobs for Neutron too. I swapped some of my knobs around but I need more small knobs since I put small ones on the tune pots and had to put the giant ones elsewhere (cutoff and LFO shape) but they're TOO big for those spots.Presently the only controller I have that outputs CV/Gate is a Keystep, but it doesn't do glide. I could use the Neutron for this purpose but it only has one assignable CV out and I use that for mod wheel, so I'd lose that if I wanted it to send pitch CV to another synth, plus it would grit up the Workstatt with its noisy CVs.

The Werkstatt makes a nice expander for other synths in any case. If you need another VCO, filter, LFO or envelope, it delivers.

On the Sirin PWM issue, I did create a patch that has "PWM" by using hard sync, but doing so I lose vibrato since the one LFO has to modulate the synced VCO. So if I want a PWM patch with vibrato I have to use a different synth. But an external LFO run thru an attenuator to the Sirin's pitch CV could give me vibrato with "sync PWM" on the Sirin. I may have to try that with the Neutron's LFO, since I really love the Sirin's sound.

Hi, what you have set up is exactly what I am trying to do. It would help me greatly if you could send some pictures or something. Maybe some more in depth information. I am very beginner into the modular world and started with mirack and I’m still in the beginner phases and learning the names for everything and what they do.

There's really no way to send you pictures because it's modular...there are so many different ways to route things, it depends on what you want to do. I can post links to the adapters and the midi-to-CV module I'm using if that helps, but you still have to learn what each module or section of the synth does, then explore to create your own patches. That's really the whole point of modular IMO. It's to learn and explore.

Aside from general tutorials on synth architecture and modular concepts which are all around the internet, there are some demo patches that come with the Werkstatt documents, plus videos like Divkid's 2020 Werkstatt overview. Those are good places to start. You can also check out Mother 32 videos for inspiration since a Werkstatt with an iPad can cover the same bases.

The adaptor is where I’m a little lost. I have made a good amount of patches and I agree and love exploring and getting into new sounds, but that is all on my iPad so what adapter to use would be very helpful to me yes having not done any modular irl so to speak.

No problem. Here's the splitter to go from the ipad/iphone headphone jack (or the apple lightening-to-headphone adapter) to CV using standard patch cables.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I also have this little midi-to-cv module that's USB powered and works with mac and iOS. The advantage is that with this you can use any midi app with the Werkstatt, not just Mirack. The disadvantage is that midi resolution is usually only 128 steps, so really slow filter sweeps aren't as smooth as analog CV, but it will give you additional CV outs that you can use at the same time as the headphone jack (6 CV outs total).

https://michigansynthworks.com/colle...roducts/2hp2cv

My Keystep 37 is connected to my ipad through the CCK and a passive usb hub. It passes midi over usb to the Keystep's 3 CV outs. In Mirack if you're using the headphone jack you just patch the CV signal to the audio output module and turn up the headphone volume. For the midi adapter and Keystep you'd use the CV to midi module of course.

Now I'm at 9 total CV outs from the ipad at same time, which is way more than needed for a simple synth like the Werkstatt, so I started investigating other ways to use the headphone jack. I found these 1st-Gen IK Irig adapters that work great for processing the Werkstatt's audio output. It add a guitar or line-level mono input through headphone jack while not changing the CV compatible output. You can add stereo FX apps like Eventide Shimmer to the Werkstatt or send a mono audio output and a CV out at the same time. All without dealing with expensive audio interfaces.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

YMMV...make sure to study up on CV ranges (Moog's -5 to +5) and calibration for the Werkstatt before you start randomly sending it CV signals.

Does anyone have a minimoog but still find the werkstatt adds something to their set up? Different-enough filter/oscillator, and of course the PWM, etc?

Or is it almost silly to buy one of these at 200$ when you could get the pro-1 for 300? (I have a prophet 5 so not needing to go there right now, but will eventually)

What it has over the Minimoog is PWM (which sounds huge btw), inverted filter envelope and most of all the semimodularity. In my opinion it doesn't make too much sense as a standalone unit if you already have a Minimoog, but if you will integrate it into a semimodular set-up, it's an awesome addition.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply