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Emu 2500 Command Station. Tell me about it. Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 16th September 2014
  #91
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Barfunkel's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike vee View Post
The Proteus sounds are garbage. If you want to check them out there is a free VST that has them all.
Garbage is an interesting choice of words. I've listened to tons of Proteus demos and to my taste they have some AMAZING sounds in them. Particularly since they are so cheap. My ears are conditioned to 90's sounds though, that might partly explain it. Still, something like a Proteus 2000 + a few well selected ROM's is a very nice way to get loads of great sounds for very little money, if you're a hardware head. You could easily make a nice sounding record with it, a sampler and some FX.
Old 16th September 2014
  #92
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mike vee's Avatar
I had a proteus 2000 in 2000 and even then the ROMs were lame. That doesn't mean that someone who is a good musician couldn't make a classic album from one though or even like it a lot. hell, it's just my opinion.

Roland has the best romplers in my experience. At this point I have owned roland, yamaha, kurz, emu and korg.
Old 17th September 2014
  #93
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Teknobeam's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barfunkel View Post
Garbage is an interesting choice of words. I've listened to tons of Proteus demos and to my taste they have some AMAZING sounds in them. Particularly since they are so cheap. My ears are conditioned to 90's sounds though, that might partly explain it. Still, something like a Proteus 2000 + a few well selected ROM's is a very nice way to get loads of great sounds for very little money, if you're a hardware head. You could easily make a nice sounding record with it, a sampler and some FX.
I really have to agree with your comment. The Proteus 1 is responsible for the success that I had back in that time, and that led to other things (that crazy chain)... BUt really, that thing was a lot of EIII packaged inti a one rack space ABS box., Multi timbral, and you could edit the envelopes quickly. It provided some really high quality samples (not just rompler waveforms) It was in fact a revolutionary device. I would combine it on tracks with an EII , or other instruments such as Yamaha FM 's or JX8p MKS80, I really was much more than just a useful component. Especially with filling out stroing sounds.. you could modify the attack time and the release time, mix it with analog or sampled sounds.. Some great brass components there also.
Old 17th September 2014
  #94
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Teknobeam's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike vee View Post
I had a proteus 2000 in 2000 and even then the ROMs were lame. That doesn't mean that someone who is a good musician couldn't make a classic album from one though or even like it a lot. hell, it's just my opinion.

Roland has the best romplers in my experience. At this point I have owned roland, yamaha, kurz, emu and korg.
Mike, what i can say about that E-mu rom stuff is that they really made it raw in a sense. For the most part they just provided samples without frills. And really, that;s so much better in my mind than providing a bunch of clever presets with esoteric fx that are really unuseable. E-mu gave you building blocks to work with. They left it up to you to do the rest. That essence of simplicity but high quality sounds is what launched that thing into a winner mode in that era. It was the spirit of the EIII and that essence was there. You can compare the early stuff from Roland (I'm a huge Roland fan) The D110 had some cool things going on, but not like the Proteus1. The JV1080 was really unique because it's actually a real synthesizer. It deserves a lot of respect.

Things evolved very quickly from the release of the EII, to the release of the EIII...that had a lot to do with VLSI electronics, but also what was happening in the personal computer industry. All of it had a huge effect on the evolution of electronics technology and electonic manufacturing. Exponential curve really. Then it all dovetailed with "digital electronics recording" Keep in mind that the Emulator was kind of a chronological anachroism. It coexisted in the analog recording world and was recorded to magnetic tape very often (yes a digital sampler being rcorded to an analog medium) hey, I did that on a regular basis...why not.. who makes the rules? Most people wouldn't care about any of this. I appreciate the crazy details because i lived it. I'm not complaining....I enjoyed every minute,, and I continue to enjoy the evolution of electronics but also the developments in the area of sound and recording sound. At this point, there are no barriers to producing amazing music.....other than your own talent , skill, and ability. All of the latest technology won't change that reality.
Old 17th September 2014
  #95
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balma's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike vee View Post
I had a proteus 2000 in 2000 and even then the ROMs were lame.
Do you mean the ROM? or the presets from the ROM?
Those presets are lame, you are right there, but...

Did you get a synth wich can create sounds using a giant modulation matrix, allowing 96 to 288 different patchord connections inside a single patch, 4 to 12 different filters (50 to choose from), 8 to 24 LFOs (15 available), just to play presets???




Quote:
Originally Posted by mike vee View Post
Roland has the best romplers in my experience. At this point I have owned roland, yamaha, kurz, emu and korg.
I´ve owned around 15 different romplers from Roland during the last 20 years. For my experience with them (and used some of these romplers until they died for overuse), all of these Roland romplers together can´t barely touch what a single E-mu Command Station with 4 ROMs onboard can do.
Old 27th September 2014
  #96
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GYang's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by balma View Post
Do you mean the ROM? or the presets from the ROM?
Those presets are lame, you are right there, but...

Did you get a synth wich can create sounds using a giant modulation matrix, allowing 96 to 288 different patchord connections inside a single patch, 4 to 12 different filters (50 to choose from), 8 to 24 LFOs (15 available), just to play presets???






I´ve owned around 15 different romplers from Roland during the last 20 years. For my experience with them (and used some of these romplers until they died for overuse), all of these Roland romplers together can´t barely touch what a single E-mu Command Station with 4 ROMs onboard can do.
I used extensively Roland and EMU.
My heart is with EMU, no doubt.
Still, for convenience puposes, I understand the ground of some opposite comments.
To each its own.
Old 13th April 2016
  #97
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by balma View Post
Well, that "blah" synth is a serious "rival" to many poly analog synths when properly programmed.

It´s far more complex in terms of modular synthesis than the Nord Modular (wich cost 3 times the CS price).

Don't lie.
Old 13th April 2016
  #98
Gear Maniac
Note that balma used the clarifier 'when properly programmed.' I sold mine. I hated everything about it other than the sound. It sounded amazing. Programming it was awful, but I must admit that the synth engine was deep. Too deep, perhaps.

Another thread raised from the dead, lol
Old 13th April 2016
  #99
Gear Guru
 
zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by acemonvw View Post
Note that balma used the clarifier 'when properly programmed.' I sold mine. I hated everything about it other than the sound. It sounded amazing. Programming it was awful, but I must admit that the synth engine was deep. Too deep, perhaps.

Another thread raised from the dead, lol
Heh. IT LIVES.

This thread inspired me to get a Mo'Phatt (worst synth name ever...) and I have to agree with you. It was capable of some great sounds but I always felt like I was doing math homework when programming it. Even from the editor. I got rid of it and got EmulatorX 3, which to me sounds just as good and doesn't take up space in my studio when I'm not using it. It's enough of that sound for me. I have other software instruments for messing with samples that are far more enjoyable to work with. Maybe not as feature packed, but I'm a simple man.
Old 13th April 2016
  #100
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by wikter View Post

Don't lie.
You have read this, right?
Old 13th April 2016
  #101
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balma's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by wikter View Post

Don't lie.
What makes you think I'm telling lies?
Old 13th April 2016
  #102
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by balma View Post
Well, that "blah" synth is a serious "rival" to many poly analog synths when properly programmed.

It´s far more complex in terms of modular synthesis than the Nord Modular (wich cost 3 times the CS price).

A single sound can store 96 different patchcords from the modulation matrix, 8 different LFOS, 4 chorus effects wich can be manipulated by the LFOs or the ADSR envelopes, and choose 4 different filters from the 50 Zplane filters.
Just with that hability, it goes very, very far from any other ROMPLER available in terms of sound design......

Using the LINK function, you can use 12 samples for a single patch, and triplicate the amount of chorus and patchcords (288 programmable slots). Also, you can use 12 filters at the same time, and tweak/control them by separated with the knobs. Interpolating the parameters of each sample layer between them is also possible, kind of similar to the synthesis you find on the Prophet VS.

Can you run external audio thru these filters (and chorus)? And is there a way to use the triplicate functiin when sending into it?
Old 14th April 2016
  #103
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balma's Avatar
Using the 50 Zplane filters over external audio would be awesome, but unfortunately is not possible. It has 4 line in/out outputs, but they are used to add external effects to the command station's engine and send the result through the main outputs.
Old 14th April 2016
  #104
Gear Head
I've had got both two, now i have just the P2500, the modular went away.
The synth engine is very easy to edit (easier than Yamaha AWM, Roland XX or Korg XXX engines) and offers a lot of control and functions, but Nord Modular is one of the best in its purpose to offer control over the sound.
Of course, The Nord hasn't those samples, but almost any Zplane filters could be emulated using basic filters and functions inside the Nord Engine.

The best section of the P2500 is the sequencer, no problem about the sounds, it has 2 midi ports, enough to route those notes to a bunch of hardware.
Nord Modular and Emu P2500 are well thought machines, but with different purposes.

Thanks anyway! It's good to find people talking about these old unsupported stuff.
Back home...
Old 18th April 2016
  #105
Gear Head
I have to say against the Proteus Sequencer that it only sends Note On at velocity 0, instread of Note Off... and that's a shame for some analogs that don't understand that velocity 0 as a note off...
Old 4th June 2018
  #106
Here for the gear
The Proteus 2500 was supposed to have 24 bit DAC's. Any relation on these to the E4 Ultra D to A? What about the other Command Stations, XL-7 MP-7, etc. Do they have the same DA as the 2500 or are some based on the Proteus 2000 DA chain?
Dan
Old 27th March 2019
  #107
Gear Head
 

P2500 is identical to the XL7/MP7/PX7 except it lacks pads.
The boards are interchangeable.
Old 28th March 2019
  #108
What I'm curious about is the relationship to the E4 series samplers. Until this thread I always the 2500 and command stations, even the 2000 series we're just slightly stripped down versions of the E4 with a rom and no sampling ability. Here I'm reading stuff about 96 patchcords at a time, 4 filters at a time, 50 filter choices and super powerful engine that nothing else has.

I own an e4xt ultra. While I haven't counted how many cords slots or filter choices are available I do think it's quite abit less on the sampler. I'll have to count them later. The curious thing is if the E4 samplers are the same but better hardware and the full out sampling flagship version why are ppl here going gaga over the proteuses? Is it the sequencer? That I understand a little. Is it the knobs, yeah I get that too. The sound engine? Unless it really is better than the E4s somehow I just don't get it. Is it the motion sequencing ability? The E4 has a 48 track sequencer!
Old 4th April 2019
  #109
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarfishMusic View Post
What I'm curious about is the relationship to the E4 series samplers. Until this thread I always the 2500 and command stations, even the 2000 series we're just slightly stripped down versions of the E4 with a rom and no sampling ability. Here I'm reading stuff about 96 patchcords at a time, 4 filters at a time, 50 filter choices and super powerful engine that nothing else has.

I own an e4xt ultra. While I haven't counted how many cords slots or filter choices are available I do think it's quite abit less on the sampler. I'll have to count them later. The curious thing is if the E4 samplers are the same but better hardware and the full out sampling flagship version why are ppl here going gaga over the proteuses? Is it the sequencer? That I understand a little. Is it the knobs, yeah I get that too. The sound engine? Unless it really is better than the E4s somehow I just don't get it. Is it the motion sequencing ability? The E4 has a 48 track sequencer!
I thought the same. I don't think there's too much you can do with the different flavors of Protei that you can't do with the Ultras. I picked up a PK6 and an E5000 last summer. I haven't got too into the E5000 yet, but between Emulator X1/2/3, the E5000, and the PK6, the synth engines all seem very similar to me. I think the 96 patchcords is 24 per layer for the 4 layers which seems to be the same as the samplers. With one of the OS updates I thought the samplers got bumped up to 64 filters, so maybe even more than the ROMplers? It is nice working with the ROMpler in that load times are more or less instantaneous compared to loading a bank from a CDrom or the hard drive on the sampler.
Dan
Old 4th April 2019
  #110
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan_e10 View Post
It is nice working with the ROMpler in that load times are more or less instantaneous compared to loading a bank from a CDrom or the hard drive on the sampler.
Dan
Thanks for your response, that makes alot of sense to me. About the rom load time; since you can burn your own roms in an ultra if you have blanks and an e-synth is just an E4 with a rom in it, it pretty much sounds like you can probably get any proteus rom and throw it in an E4XT series and it will work. You could try throwing your pk6 room into the 5000. On the e-synth it halves your ram though if set to active I believe.

Last edited by StarfishMusic; 4th April 2019 at 10:28 PM..
Old 4th April 2019
  #111
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarfishMusic View Post
Thanks for your response, that makes alot of sense to me. About the room load time; since you can burn your own roms in an ultra if you have blanks and an e-synth is just an E4 with a rom in it, it pretty much sounds like you can probably get any proteus rom and throw it in an E4XT series and it will work. You could try throwing your pk6 room into the 5000. On the e-synth it halves your ram though if set to active I believe.
That is something I thought about if I sell off the PK6, however this from the Command Station Tutorial thread had me a little worried about doing that:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Steve View Post
Not me. I did put a P2500 ROM in an Ultra Sampler and managed to kill the P2K-style presets. If functions as an EROM SIMM in the sampler (v1.3, IIRC), but there is no way to re-flash the P2500 presets without a special device E-Mu used to have. If I had a PRO/CUSSION ROM, I probably would not put it into a more modern ROMPLER.
Old 4th April 2019
  #112
Do the sounds on the themed Proteus 2000 modules come on removable sticks, or are they baked into the ROM? It seems like the memory sticks are relatively hard to come by nowadays or end up costing about the same as the themed modules that have the same sounds, and while I think the themed ones are fun I've been thinking about getting a 2500 instead.
Old 4th April 2019
  #113
Here for the gear
There might be exceptions, but I think all the module ROMs are available outside of the modules themselves. As you suspect, they might be as expensive or even more so than buying the module itself unfortunately.
Dan
Old 8th April 2019
  #114
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jason moyer View Post
Do the sounds on the themed Proteus 2000 modules come on removable sticks, or are they baked into the ROM? It seems like the memory sticks are relatively hard to come by nowadays or end up costing about the same as the themed modules that have the same sounds, and while I think the themed ones are fun I've been thinking about getting a 2500 instead.
I believe what you call "themed modules" are the same as what I call "P2K Variants" or "1ru variants" (in the context of E-Mu P2K/Command Station forums). All terms are fine with me; just wanting to make sure when I use terms others know what I mean.

Also, (very relevant to your question), I refer to "12-controller" ROMs and [E-Mu] boxes/variants and "16-controller" ROMS and E-Mus.

Since I often see "sticks" referring to things that plug into usb slots, I tend to use "SIMM," "Sound SIMM," "Sound ROM," etc. Just mentioning this so when I use these terms others know what I mean (not better terms, just different).

The SIMMs/sticks/Sound ROMs have what I call resources, such as samples, multisamples, presets [aka patches, preset definitsions] arp patterns, demo tunes, Audition Riffs, etc. [baked onto the ROM/stick].

So, if you have a P2K 1 ru E-Mu, you can put various sticks/SIMMs inside (XLEAD, P/123, AOrch, etc.). If you have a P2500 or a Command Station you can put the Sound ROMS in them as well (being sure to follow safety precautions--power off/unplogged, shoes off and other anti-static tricks).

As you know, the 1 ru boxes have 4 knobs (aka CC knobs, MIDI knobs, etc.) which can be switched by using a button. [1] = MidiA, MidiB, MidiC , MidiD, [2] = MidiE, MidiF, MidiG, MidiH, [3] = MidiI, MidiJ, MidiK, MidiL. These can be used to send midi data out, control parameters through E-Mu's virtual patchcords, etc. That's why I call them 12-controller boxes. The 1 ru boxes don't have trigger buttons.

The P2500 and Command Stations have 4 x 4 knobs, plus 16 mute/track/trigger/edit function buttons [depending on what mode you are in]. Since they also have MidiM, MidiN, MidiO, MidiP as continuous controllers, I call them 16-controller boxes.

You can put 12- and 16-controller-based SIMMs in either type of box. If you like the CMPSR factory presets but have a P2500 ROM in a P2500 box (or a command Station), you can get User Banks of Presets which give you the P2K/CMPSR presets as designed for the 16-controller E-Mu box.

One isn't better than another; its all a matter of personal needs, use, space, performance modalities, etc. You might know all of what I mentioned, but in case not, perhaps it will help in your decision-making.

I hardly use my P2500's sequencer any more, but I love the 4 x 4 knobs and the 16 buttons. If you have an external controller (or more than one) and don't need a hardware sequencer, maybe a 1 ru box would meet your needs.

Oh--the 1 ru box OSes will only do MidiA -> MidiL virtual patchcord assignments [patchcord sources], even if you have a controller with 16 or more knobs/sliders.

As far as pricing, from what I have seen over the years, there are people who try to sell ROMs for far more than they typically sold for previously. If you are lucky you can find someone selling ROMs for what I would call "reasonable" [JMO].

Often, from what I have seen, people will list E-Mu's without ROMs. They >usually< tell you that but it doesn't hurt to ask specifically. Also, again from what I have seen, some people will say "excellent condition" and will really just be referring to cosmetic condition, not working condition.

IMO, it doesn't hurt to ask specific questions--esp. about such things as the "Big Knob" [aka Main Encoder] and brightness of the display. Caveat Emptor, Due Dilligence, etc.

Not sure you need anything here, but maybe it helps or will help someone else who stumbles onto this thread.

Steve

PS: I often wonder about people who charge as much as we sometimes see these day--were they ever really users? did they buy the gear when new and want to get as much as they can back for their investment 15-20 years ago? are they "dealers" who have priced in a 70-100% mark up from what they gave on a trade-in? are they people who just happened to pick these things up, did some research and want to exploit the alleged "going-rate" (which might really be the listed rate as opposed to a "fair market" valuation?

A few years ago there was a listing for a 1 ru proteus for something many might consider outrageous--like $2,000, IIRC. I suppose it might have been worth that much to someone who had money to burn or something.

If you are handy as an electronic DIYer, you can sometimes find units in need of repairs--such as lcd and encoder replacements.
Old 9th April 2019
  #115
Gear Maniac
 
chaocrator's Avatar
btw, spare buttons & encoders are available on ebay.
and i've also seen modern displays that are way better readable. thinking about upgrading displays in my Command Stations.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #116
Here for the gear
On Vintage Synth Explorer the Proteus 2500 and the keyboard models (PK6, XK6, etc.) are listed as having upgraded 24 bit dacs compared to the P2000's. I haven't been able to find much on the web about the dacs in the different models. The specs in the owners manuals don't really make it clear. Anyone know which dacs the Command Stations have?
Dan

Edit: I see biam responded that the Command Stations and the 2500's are the same with the exception of the pads. So, same dacs and analog output more or less?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #117
Gear Maniac
 
chaocrator's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan_e10 View Post
I see biam responded that the Command Stations and the 2500's are the same with the exception of the pads. So, same dacs and analog output more or less?
absolutely. mainboards are interchangeable.

the specs in the manual say about 16-bit data encoding (which is about PCM in ROMs) and 24-bit internal processing, but nothing about DAC resolution.

S/PDIF is 20-bit, according to official specs. this makes things even more cryptic
Old 4 weeks ago
  #118
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaocrator View Post
the specs in the manual say about 16-bit data encoding (which is about PCM in ROMs) and 24-bit internal processing, but nothing about DAC resolution.
Fancy a look at those AKM AK4324VF (Dual 1bit [24-bit delta] 128x oversampling, 105 dB dynamic range) DAC on this picture?



Source (PSU replacement tutorial in french)

Same as on the latest Proteus 2000 revision, since the units are very closely related.



Still Not Working

Last edited by Poumtschak; 4 weeks ago at 04:44 PM..
Old 4 weeks ago
  #119
Gear Maniac
 
chaocrator's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poumtschak View Post
dude, thanks a lot for pointing to this.

i was thinking about PSU replacement scenario ... just in case.

i can't read french, but google translate can
Old 4 weeks ago
  #120
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poumtschak View Post
Thanks! That was an excellent link and it also answered an unrelated question I had on how to identify the Emu ROMs.

Quote:
What s seems to be the oldest units, main board has E-MU logo and silk screen dated 1998 have different DAC's for MAIN's and SUB's outputs.
MAIN outs are from Cirrus Logic, CS4329 (Dual 20-bit Delta-Sigma, 128x oversampling, 106 dB dynamic range) and NE5532 op-amps
SUB1/SUB2 are fed from Analog Devices AD1861 (Mono 18-bit R-2R with up to 16x oversampling, 108 dB dynamic range) and NE5532 op-amps

Later units has Pactron labels inside and year 2000 on PCB silk screen. MAIN/SUB1/SUB2 on these came with AKM AK4324 (Dual 1bit [24-bit delta] 128x oversampling, 105 dB dynamic range) and JRC4560 op-amps.

According to datasheet's DAC’s on the older boards SUB out's have 2-3dB better headroom than the CS and AKM. How much practical impact this has on sound quality could be interesting to investigate. Personally being a sucker for R-2R DAC's in my hi-fi a proper blind test is needed to rule out a favorite.
Dan
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