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Aira TR-8 vs 808 Samples?
Old 26th April 2014
  #1
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Johnnycarson's Avatar
 

Aira TR-8 vs 808 Samples?

I've never owned or used an original TR-808 and that's not what i'm expecting with the TR-8, but i've read that the original had a certain 'mojo' to it you couldn't get by using samples. Yeah, the TR-808 is all analog and the TR-8 is not. Still, i'm wondering if the TR-8 has it's own sort of 'mojo' compared to just downloading sampled TR-8 hits.
Old 26th April 2014
  #2
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Well, the TR-8 is tweakable, unlike samples.
Old 26th April 2014
  #3
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ohsnap's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnycarson View Post
'mojo'
It emulates it, including the 'mojo'. Does a pretty good job at it.
Old 26th April 2014
  #4
Lots of other threads discussing this, but anyway….
I don't think the TR8 is the ultimate replacement for a real 808.
TR8 is more flexible than TR808 samples because you can tweak each sound. In addition, TR8 sounds fluctuate like a real electronic instrument, whereas samples are static.
The benefit of TR8 is in the tiny timbre changes from beat to beat, plus the eventual expansion of the unit to cover several different drum machines (TR909 already included).
So if you like your 808 samples, and they are all you are ever going to need for your music, then buying a TR8 might be a waste of money.
If you want something that is more like a real drum machine, and includes sounds from several drum machines, then TR8 might be a good purchase.
Old 26th April 2014 | Show parent
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Ai View Post
Well, the TR-8 is tweakable, unlike samples.
Samples are tweakable.no?
Old 26th April 2014 | Show parent
  #6
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Miiko's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Ai View Post
Well, the TR-8 is tweakable, unlike samples.
I'm sorry but how are samples not tweakable?
Old 26th April 2014
  #7
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The tr8 just has a 'system' that tweaks the sample for u.

Or is it some other kind of synthesis??im no expert........
Old 27th April 2014 | Show parent
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goa-Dubs View Post
The tr8 just has a 'system' that tweaks the sample for u.

Or is it some other kind of synthesis??im no expert........
It's synthesis not sample based (only some sounds on the 909 are samples}.
Old 27th April 2014 | Show parent
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrok View Post
I'm sorry but how are samples not tweakable?
They are but not the same. TR-8 tweaks are synth based which will lead to different results, for instance pitch on a 808 BD sample will just pitch the entire thing while pitch on the TR-8 will leave the trigger pulse / attack alone. Same goes for ADSR.
Accent is not just higher velocity, it changes the way a voice sounds as well, increasing velocity on samples won't do that.

Samples also won't give you the way some sounds interact and behave on the TR-8.

Listen to some old 808 records, then reprogram these using samples, if you don't hear a difference in sound / behaviour then you don't need the TR-8 or even the OG boxes.

In the end, what works for you works for you!
Old 27th April 2014 | Show parent
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrok View Post
I'm sorry but how are samples not tweakable?
Drum samples, specifically electronic drum samples tend to be one sample, repeated every time you trigger it.
I guess you can build in some kind of slight pitch or timbal variation using your sampler, but most people seem to just use the static, repeated sample.
Old 27th April 2014 | Show parent
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Drum samples, specifically electronic drum samples tend to be one sample, repeated every time you trigger it.
I guess you can build in some kind of slight pitch or timbal variation using your sampler, but most people seem to just use the static, repeated sample.
Yes they do. Sometimes for aesthetic or groove reasons but mostly because of laziness or lack of imagination. I work almost exclusively with one shot drum samples in my music and their are many simple methods to change a once static sample into a sound that is different in a subtle and good way with every hit. Just takes a little work. An analogue machine mostly negates the need for this, freeing up time for creative flow.

Regarding the tr8, my opinion is that its single voices are pretty cool sounding, very much emphasising the transient compared to the classic machines. but the summed output really stinks in my ears. I wonder if the 8 USB output sounds any better.
Old 27th April 2014 | Show parent
  #12
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NoVi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Drum samples, specifically electronic drum samples tend to be one sample, repeated every time you trigger it.
I guess you can build in some kind of slight pitch or timbal variation using your sampler, but most people seem to just use the static, repeated sample.
Maybe you should have a look at Transistor Revolution by Wave Alchemy. I own the product, Sound quality is good, the only downside for me is the pattern sequencer, wished that worked easier than it does at the moment.

Transistor Revolution MKII | Sample CDs & Sample Packs - Wave Alchemy
Old 27th April 2014 | Show parent
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoVi View Post
Maybe you should have a look at Transistor Revolution by Wave Alchemy. I own the product, Sound quality is good, the only downside for me is the pattern sequencer, wished that worked easier than it does at the moment.

Transistor Revolution MKII | Sample CDs & Sample Packs - Wave Alchemy
what don't you like about the pattern sequencer and how could they improve it?
Old 27th April 2014 | Show parent
  #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by golden beers View Post

Regarding the tr8, my opinion is that its single voices are pretty cool sounding, very much emphasising the transient compared to the classic machines. but the summed output really stinks in my ears. I wonder if the 8 USB output sounds any better.
I'm recording it using the individual outs and it sounds punchy.
Old 27th April 2014 | Show parent
  #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoVi View Post
Maybe you should have a look at Transistor Revolution by Wave Alchemy.
I have a TR8 and am satisfied with that... Plus my own homemade drum sounds.
Old 27th April 2014 | Show parent
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golden beers View Post
what don't you like about the pattern sequencer and how could they improve it?
I would like an Ultrabeat-like sequencer. You build up a pattern, within the plug-in with its own stop/start-button and then drag it to the arrange window.
Old 27th April 2014
  #17
Find a used Drumstation and call it a day.
Old 27th April 2014 | Show parent
  #18
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ohsnap's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoVi View Post
Maybe you should have a look at Transistor Revolution by Wave Alchemy. I own the product, Sound quality is good, the only downside for me is the pattern sequencer, wished that worked easier than it does at the moment.

Transistor Revolution MKII | Sample CDs & Sample Packs - Wave Alchemy
What does it sound like when you program 'overlapping' bass drums? Does it do the inconsistent velocity thing and timbre / resonance thing the 808 does?
Also what does it do when you apply accents to bass drums? Does it do the impact and timbre changes? or is it another round robin one-shot kit with just way more samples?
Old 27th April 2014 | Show parent
  #19
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3rdpath's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by golden beers View Post
Regarding the tr8, my opinion is that its single voices are pretty cool sounding, very much emphasising the transient compared to the classic machines. but the summed output really stinks in my ears. I wonder if the 8 USB output sounds any better.
This is also my perception. Something in the output summing sounds choked and smeared. The USB outputs are a nice option but don't mesh with my workflow. Shame too, I really wanted one. I'm using samples...
Old 27th April 2014
  #20
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You can't easily 'tweak' a single sample to emulate a real circuit. the pitch, velocity / accent, and direct trigger timing of the 808 and 909 are why they are real instruments.
samplers do not do that.
at least the tr8 is trying to do that. but why didn;t they just make a real instrument. korg figured it out.

z
Old 27th April 2014 | Show parent
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewAllianceEast! View Post
korg figured it out.
What did Korg figure out? How to cash in on the current analog hype with cheap modern analog components that don't sound or behave anything like the vintage stuff?
Old 27th April 2014
  #22
Round robin goldbaby 808 samples loaded into spark

Not static

Tweakable

Knobs
Old 27th April 2014
  #23
Tr8 has the mojo for sure
Old 28th April 2014 | Show parent
  #24
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Miiko's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Drum samples, specifically electronic drum samples tend to be one sample, repeated every time you trigger it.
I guess you can build in some kind of slight pitch or timbal variation using your sampler, but most people seem to just use the static, repeated sample.
I am having a hard time understanding how you have 20,000 posts and offer up this perspective.

Yes it's one sample, but you can do A LOT with that sample. To say that samples aren't tweakable is laughable.
Old 28th April 2014 | Show parent
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcearl View Post
Round robin goldbaby 808 samples loaded into spark

Not static

Tweakable

Knobs
4 out of 10 maybe.

Just a few points:
No round robin kit does the 808 overlapping bass drum thing which is tempo, pattern, decay and accent settings dependent.
Not static, but this is just some randomization not variation based on synthesis.
There's no accented hits in sample packs I came across let alone programmable like TR's.
Tweakable yes but again not on synth level so not the same at all.
Shortening a long BD sample won't sound the same as decreasing decay on the TR-8.

Sample packs are fine and may be all you need but no comparisson to X0X's IMO.

Robin Whittle breaks down what exactly happens when 808 BDs 'overlap'. Might help to understand why samples will never get you there. Can't find the link though
Old 28th April 2014 | Show parent
  #26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrok View Post
I am having a hard time understanding how you have 20,000 posts and offer up this perspective.

Yes it's one sample, but you can do A LOT with that sample. To say that samples aren't tweakable is laughable.
I have a had time understanding how you didn't understand my initial reply.
The OP asked what the difference was between TR8 and 808 samples.
The simple answer is the TR8 varies the sound (without you doing anything) and without you doing anything 808 samples are usually static. You can 'tweak' the TR8 sounds with 'accent', compressor, fx and more or less attack, plus pitch of course. With most samples you can't add attack, and often the range of pitch is limited before the sample starts to sound weird.

I'm not stopping you or anyone else explaining how you can program variation and movement into a set of samples. Sure......be my guest.
I just answered a basic question with the simplest answer.
Old 28th April 2014 | Show parent
  #27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrok View Post
Yes it's one sample, but you can do A LOT with that sample. To say that samples aren't tweakable is laughable.
There's a lot you can do to a sample, yes, but there are things you cannot do. Even a round-robin cycle through multisamples of a an analog drum machine doesn't capture what goes on in the circuitry.
Here's a DR-110 snare drumroll, from the DR-110, and then sampled. How much this affects the listener in the end is debatable, but over the years I have personally come to prefer the sound of actual analog (and even the TR-8 emulation) drums to their sampled counterparts.
Old 28th April 2014 | Show parent
  #28
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohsnap View Post
4 out of 10 maybe.

Just a few points:
No round robin kit does the 808 overlapping bass drum thing which is tempo, pattern, decay and accent settings dependent.
Not static, but this is just some randomization not variation based on synthesis.
There's no accented hits in sample packs I came across let alone programmable like TR's.
Tweakable yes but again not on synth level so not the same at all.
Shortening a long BD sample won't sound the same as decreasing decay on the TR-8.

Sample packs are fine and may be all you need but no comparisson to X0X's IMO.

Robin Whittle breaks down what exactly happens when 808 BDs 'overlap'. Might help to understand why samples will never get you there. Can't find the link though
4?


Harsh
Old 28th April 2014
  #29
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Johnnycarson's Avatar
 

So...I bought a Tempest instead. Might get the TR-8 in the near future as well. Thanks for the feedback guys!
Old 28th April 2014 | Show parent
  #30
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ohsnap's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcearl View Post
4?


Harsh
In the end who cares indeed but you know, this is GS!
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