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Aira TR-8 vs 808 Samples?
Old 19th October 2014 | Show parent
  #31
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i think it's splitting hairs....because all my 808 909 606 707 samples in my ableton library sound amazing, and using Sampler, i can play with adsr, pitch envelopes, FM,......i mean these are percussive sounds...like....we aren't talking about complex evolving pads or supersaws....or FM synth leads....it's a ****ing drum....i think the tr8 is exactly the same as having samples + Push...for ableton...but the tr8 has a cool interface that you can play with

i believe i'd rather have a 808 kick sample streaming at 48k 32 bit...than a tr808 analog drum machine running through my daw at 441 and 16 bit..........this is just thought experiment
Old 19th October 2014 | Show parent
  #32
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payt's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by inversound View Post
i think it's splitting hairs....because all my 808 909 606 707 samples in my ableton library sound amazing, and using Sampler, i can play with adsr, pitch envelopes, FM,......i mean these are percussive sounds...like....we aren't talking about complex evolving pads or supersaws....or FM synth leads....it's a ****ing drum....i think the tr8 is exactly the same as having samples + Push...for ableton...but the tr8 has a cool interface that you can play with

i believe i'd rather have a 808 kick sample streaming at 48k 32 bit...than a tr808 analog drum machine running through my daw at 441 and 16 bit..........this is just thought experiment
Of course samples and sound libraries give good results too. What I like about the TR/8 is that it gives me an actual drum machine, at the ready whenever I feel like messing around with it. No need to start up the computer, a daw, find and load samples-plugins and all that.. just turn it on and play.

To me it sounds different to using samples too. Not nescessarily better or worse, it´s just a different ´sound´. And it´s a very fun machine to play and mess around with, with instantly tweakable and changeable sounds.. and some effects to boot.. and scatter, which despite all the negativity and giggles about it is actually pretty useful.

It inspires me to do more live jams too, together with the tb 3 and the system 1, and some other synths such as the Moog LP, BS2, JP80 and Microbrute. Here´s an example..

https://soundcloud.com/payt69/electrified
Old 19th October 2014 | Show parent
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by payt View Post
Of course samples and sound libraries give good results too. What I like about the TR/8 is that it gives me an actual drum machine, at the ready whenever I feel like messing around with it. No need to start up the computer, a daw, find and load samples-plugins and all that.. just turn it on and play.

To me it sounds different to using samples too. Not nescessarily better or worse, it´s just a different ´sound´. And it´s a very fun machine to play and mess around with, with instantly tweakable and changeable sounds.. and some effects to boot.. and scatter, which despite all the negativity and giggles about it is actually pretty useful.

It inspires me to do more live jams too, together with the tb 3 and the system 1, and some other synths such as the Moog LP, BS2, JP80 and Microbrute. Here´s an example..

https://soundcloud.com/payt69/electrified
totally agreee with all of this that you said, i'm banking on replacing all the hardware with Push...we'll see if it can work in time...really cool song too man, very authentic, really fat sounds at the 10minute mark

im listening to your prophet demo ****in killer man! so terminator bladerunner, its' tripping me out
Old 19th October 2014
  #34
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payt's Avatar
 

haha.. thanks man! That prophet 08 demo may be F5D´s demo, which starts playing after every tune I play on my tracklist.. at least soundcloud seems to think it needs to do that in my situation, not sure how it works for other people. I do have a prophet 08 demo on my soundcloud though, called Fra Mauro, but it´s not very bladerunner or terminator.
Old 19th October 2014 | Show parent
  #35
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Barfunkel's Avatar
 

I much prefer the TR-8 over the 808 sample pack I bought. Not that the samples sound bad, it's just so much faster and easier to dial up a nice drumkit on a knobby drummachine vs going through hundreds or thousands of samples, trying to find the right one.
Old 19th October 2014
  #36
Tried to love the Tr-8, but I couldn't connect with it - although the sounds were good, I always got bored after working with it for a short time - it felt too static to me, even with all the cutting edge modelling.

Got a Korg Vocla beats and I can easily get carried away with the looping beat as I program - just feels more alive & soulful IMO - not a ear based sonic judgement, but an emotional one.

More on topic, I think workflow is the important factor here - the TR-8 is very hands on and the swing is cool too - if you value the workflow, then it will be much better for you then a sample set.

But really - check out some other options in drum machine land as well to see if there is something you love just waiting.

(just general advice on the topic - I see the OP has already done just that, congrats ;-))
Old 19th October 2014
  #37
Gear Maniac
 

Another important point is (modelled) analogue noise as in TR-8 makes rolled/rapid hits considerably less tediously robotic. To accomplish that in samples, you'd need round-robin and/or randomised programming, and even then, sampled noise won't behave consistently like 'real' noise (random or periodic). Anyway, not quite the end of the world, and if you had a convenient way to set up 'random' samples, you could apply it to many other types of drum. But if 808 or 909 is all that's desired, the TR-8 can be a lot less static due to its modelled noise.

Another good thing is velocity response, again without having to program a lot of layers (switching/fading sounds bad using just a few ranges). The TR-8 responds quite nicely over the entire range, as used to good effect on its rolls. (Not sure if the 808 or 909 were ever velocity-sensitive without modding?)

I mean I assume the entire reason people still worship the original 808 and 909 is that they sense a less static, more varied sound than simplistic samples. Thankfully for those of us who don't have £5000 to spare, the TR-8 does a fantastic job of modelling the original gear and happens to include the subtle variations/randomness in that too. And it adds a whole load of parameters, velocity, etc.
Old 25th November 2014
  #38
Here for the gear
 

Has anyone actually gotten to compare a TR8 to the wave alchemy pack that was mentioned earlier? I've been using the drum rack it came with for a bit now but loading up the thousands of samples makes my projects load slow and is a drain on my CPU. If the TR8 sounds substantially better I'm really considering picking one up. I've played with it in the music shop thru a big keyboard amp plenty of times, but I won't be able to so a real side by side without purchasing it.
Old 25th November 2014 | Show parent
  #39
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Barfunkel's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by doubleohnodj View Post
Has anyone actually gotten to compare a TR8 to the wave alchemy pack that was mentioned earlier? I've been using the drum rack it came with for a bit now but loading up the thousands of samples makes my projects load slow and is a drain on my CPU. If the TR8 sounds substantially better I'm really considering picking one up. I've played with it in the music shop thru a big keyboard amp plenty of times, but I won't be able to so a real side by side without purchasing it.
I have both the TR-8 and the Wave Alchemy drums. I WAY prefer the TR-8. It's just so much faster and easier to dial in a drum sound with a few knobs rather than going through hundreds of samples. The TR-8 is a real instrument and fun to play with, browsing a sample collection is more like hard labour.

Sometimes when the TR-8 doesn't do something I have in mind I just sample it with my Octatrack and process the drums there to get something new and exciting.
Old 25th November 2014 | Show parent
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barfunkel View Post
I have both the TR-8 and the Wave Alchemy drums.
does the wave alchemy pack allow for faking accents and 808 quirks etc like the tr8 does? adjusting settings works like the tr8?

or does it just do round robin and have more / better samples than the average 808 pack?
Old 25th November 2014
  #41
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I use the ableton drum rack that it came with, and you can turn the knobs on each drum sound to affect the sound. I believe it cycles through samples for any possible combination of knobs and then round robins that sample (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). So I can edit the sounds fairly easy without having to browse through individual samples or folders at all.
Old 25th November 2014 | Show parent
  #42
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Barfunkel's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tamiya View Post
does the wave alchemy pack allow for faking accents and 808 quirks etc like the tr8 does? adjusting settings works like the tr8?

or does it just do round robin and have more / better samples than the average 808 pack?
At least the WA pack I have is just a bunch of samples in wav format. I use them with my Octatrack, advanced software samplers might be able to use them more efficiently, there are some software templates for various samplers in the folder, but I've never tried those.

Comparing my tracks made with the TR-8 and the tracks made with OT + the samples, the TR-8 tracks have more punch, definition and character. Could be just placebo of course, or a result of a better user interface.
Old 25th November 2014 | Show parent
  #43
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There is a reason why engineers/producers do sample replacement.

I have samples inside my Roland Octapad SPD-30 and I also have the TR-8 and let me tell you which sounds punchier.

Now before you say... now hold on a minute....what would either sound like in a good preamp or compressor.

I have tried both in some high end Drawmer gear and I much preferred the
Octapad/ samples.

I think both have their place and one of them is probably better in a live situation and the other in the studio.

My personal view only.

Cheers

Last edited by nickknack; 25th November 2014 at 11:13 AM.. Reason: missing word
Old 25th November 2014
  #44
Musicians eat placebo for lunch and hallucinate on it for dinner.

You can do everything imaginable with sound using sampling, if you know what you are doing.

If not, buy sounds from us that know.

The TR8 is a wonderful machine but I don't understand why this worthless discussion about sampling and it's so called less synthethic powers always comes up. Learn your sampler. It's more powerful than any synth. Period.
Old 25th November 2014 | Show parent
  #45
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Benjaymun's Avatar
It's a bit of a mystery to me why the 808 and 909 still get such attention. Even Robert Hood has moved on from his 909 to a sample drum machine. I don't like trolling through kick and snare samples either, but they produce a much better result IMO.
Old 25th November 2014 | Show parent
  #46
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xanax's Avatar
I own the original 808 & 909 and to me they are worth every penny.. i'm even thinking of getting a second 808 cause mine isn't in great condition.. and yes i also own loads of samplers and the best 808/909 kits as well as a TR-8. Samples are good when fed into a nice sampler but they are more or less static. Yes you can filter & layer but on the real 808/909 adding attack actually adds click, snappy white noise, even tune on the BD isn't regular pitching.. so basically you can dial in a nice variety of sounds with a couple knob movements.. TR-8 emulates all this quite well yet the overall sound is just too clean and sterile compared to the OGs. it's sort of similar to a VA synth versus a real VCO analog..

As for Rob Hood.. well i'm sure he can get away with samples (which are probably from his own 909 settings) and whatever synth he's using these days but his best material remains just a 909, 101, DX100 imo.. he was even asked about it in a recent interview:

Rob was able to make a masterpiece out of a kick drum and one monosynth. There's no one else that's floored me in that way, hearing sounds that are perfectly matched and truly don't need anything else. Those are the moments when you heard something and were like "Oh man!" I don't know if it was simple but now, when you hear things so layered, you're not really sure what you're hearing—maybe that's part of it.

RH: I didn't have any money, that's all it was. [laughs] I had a $50 four-track, a borrowed DX-100, and I had just gotten a little money and bought a 909, and that's all I had to work with—thank God for that. But that's what I appreciate. It came out of desperation. We have too many options now. Where's that desperate kid that's sitting in his basement or his attic that's going to spark a change in the world?

I think that's an interesting POV.. we all know the x0x were used back in the day by the chicago/detroit guys because they were affordable and sounded different. The limits also pushed their creativity. today analog is expensive and software/digital is what's cheap, unfortunately the sound isn't very special.. and the zillion options & presets doesn't spark much spontaneity
Old 25th November 2014
  #47
I own, have owned and used a number of drum machines over the years. I have never had as much fun with any other machine as the TR-808 and TR-909, with the 909 being my favorite. I just love the sound of every instrument on it and I have never got tired of it. I use other machines and samples as well, but there is just something special about the 909. I still own and use my first drum machine, a Boss DR-660.
Old 25th November 2014 | Show parent
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xanax View Post
I own the original 808 & 909 and to me they are worth every penny.. i'm even thinking of getting a second 808 cause mine isn't in great condition..
+1 they are worth every penny. but... i just wish i can get my 808 going again, as it has lost it's mind!!
Old 26th November 2014 | Show parent
  #49
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Barfunkel's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjaymun View Post
It's a bit of a mystery to me why the 808 and 909 still get such attention. Even Robert Hood has moved on from his 909 to a sample drum machine. I don't like trolling through kick and snare samples either, but they produce a much better result IMO.
What do you mean they produce better results? A real 909/808 will, for example, always sound better than even a perfectly recorded sample, because the analog circuitry is a bit alive the sound fluctuates, creating little variations.

Or are you talking about those preprocessed ready to go samples that some companies offer? Those can create professional results fast and easily yes, but if they're already processed to the extremities, you can't really unprocess them and get the raw sound back. I'd personally never use those, I like to do my own things to sounds instead of relying on someone else doing it for me. I can see the attraction though, getting drums sounding really good and professional is very difficult, particularly on a low budget.
Old 26th November 2014 | Show parent
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Syn303 View Post
it has lost it's mind!!
what is wrong with it?
Old 27th November 2014 | Show parent
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tamiya View Post
what is wrong with it?
It needs it's telepathic circuits in it's central brain rewired. But tbh i'm getting a bit jacked off with being unable to use it.
Old 27th November 2014 | Show parent
  #52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Syn303 View Post
It needs it's telepathic circuits in it's central brain rewired. But tbh i'm getting a bit jacked off with being unable to use it.
You could always install the CHD MIDI kit and use it as a sound module. The kit wires (solder) directly to the instrument trigger points so that you can trigger sounds from MIDI. Even does velocity.
Old 28th November 2014 | Show parent
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BM0 View Post
You could always install the CHD MIDI kit and use it as a sound module. The kit wires (solder) directly to the instrument trigger points so that you can trigger sounds from MIDI. Even does velocity.
No thanks, i pulled the CHD kit i had in my 808 over a couple of months ago. I'm just unable to use my 808 for any recording work until the Central Brain gets sorted.
And i don't want to use my UW+ and 808 samples, as they sound a bit too static for my liking (Goldbaby 808 samples)
Old 28th November 2014
  #54
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Catabolic's Avatar
 

Here's one guy's experience, make of it what you will. I love samples and use them all the time. I've never been inspired to use 808 samples that much for whatever reason and can't even say I was a big 808 fan. However, for some insane reason I thought I would build a Yocto 808 as a project. So glad I did as it sounds flippin' great. I now use it and also use sampled runs from it. Haven't used one shots from it yet.
Old 28th November 2014
  #55
Wildfunk
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Still no packs with clean TR-8 samples available?
Old 29th September 2015 | Show parent
  #56
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Had one...sounds good but 5-note polyphony for a drum module is not quite the ticket I'm afraid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Breaks Dude View Post
Find a used Drumstation and call it a day.
Old 29th September 2015
  #57
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GeminIAm's Avatar
Played with a TR8 in a shop recently. II thought it was unreal, and really want one. Having said that, if I had 2grand to spare I might get a real one lol
Old 29th September 2015
  #58
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I've got 808 and 909 samples on my electribe.

I can tune them way up or way down.
I can take a long deep 808 kick, and apply an amp envelope to make it short, right down to a click.
I can have several variations of kicks and snares assigned to various pads.
I can apply a subtle random LFO to pitch.
I can filter, pan, and effect each sound independently.

All these tricks can make a set of static analog drum machine samples have more life. And it's not like there was insane amounts of variety on those antique analog boxes - they were trying to pump out identical, predictable blips. The tuning ranges and alternate sounds were limited. Unless you're an idle rich collector trying to amuse yourself, there's no reason to hand someone $2000 for a 909 or whatever.

Those old machines wanted to be samplers, you can feel it. Only memory was too damn expensive back then.
Old 29th September 2015 | Show parent
  #59
mp3
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Aural aesthetics. You can always get 80% of the way there at 20% of the cost. Totally depends on your value system whether or not spending 5x as much to achieve that last 20% of technical sound quality is worth it to you. To me its not, because ultimately, I feel like my job is to connect to the listener at the emotional level, not the technical level.

As an aside, I personally skip all of the faithful-recreation-of-an-808 emulators out there (including multi-GB round robin libraries) because I don't really have a use for bog standard 808s in my music. I'm not trying to emulate Afrika Bambaataa. So for me, samples (stock or processed) rule the roost, because in the end, I'd have to process the output of the emulator anyway. I can live without the minute tonal variations an analog circuit (or an emulation thereof) provides, because 1. I don't feel like they add much of anything to the listener's emotional response to my music, and 2. as other have said, if I need tonal variation, my sampler can do a passable job.

I get the 'interaction with the interface/sequencer' aspect, but my sampler has a pretty awesome interface and sequencer too.

Bottom line: there is no right or wrong, this is art.
Old 30th September 2020
  #60
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J Gabriel's Avatar
 

yeah really depends on your style and preferred way of working imo
personally don't like the sound of the tr8 but im obsessive about drum sounds
but know some people love it for obvious reasons stated above
some high quality 808 samples (i like samples from mars) thrown into the MPC3000 or S950 sequenced by MPC and it's pretty damn awesome
did have a Yocto 808 clone and while it sounded better than samples (especially that Bass drum damn) i ended up selling it
got a stand alone 808 kick module since it's pretty clutch for electronic music but prefer samples of real drums for hat and snare percussion etc
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