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100% Pure Analog! (How?) Recorders, Players & Tape Machines
Old 20th March 2014
  #151
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjukambe View Post
actually, it does. it adds texture to the sound, and the sound itself is music. i like kosmoflot's tracks sound very much.

and there is inevitable analog simulation, crucial for the digital domain - it is called dithering
thanks man!

Recording in analog way will not necessary make your music better or worse, It's just going to be different... (as been said earlier)...
When I'm recording on cassette, and in my case everything has to be recorded in one take, does discipline me...
I know I can always rewrite the cassette but it's not going to be the same...
To me cassettes are like polaroids... there's never exactly the same polaroid... because it's physical... never exactly the same cassette because of the physics...
I've used to be a scratcher with a metal band around here in yearly 00's... gig's, rehearsals and all...
I tried to get around Reason those days... but it never cut it for me... I got bored after half an hour clicking in it. I know I can put Logic or Ablenton on my mac... but... well... you see....
It's the easy path... where everything can be quantised, synced, whatever... and I never was looking for one...
I don't mind coming to my friend's place with my brutes and recording some mayhem together through his ****tiest sound card in Logic... I just know it's 0101000101 in the end...
I know my sound could be little better with a better tape deck (sadly right now my financial situation is real crape so I have to stick with what I have...)

and there's nothing like going out to the park with your ghettoblaster loaded with your very own home made cassette, rolling a spliff and enjoying your music)

P.S. I don't know maybe that is a rhetorical or philosophical post or whatever... not really sure if it's on topic but anyway...
Old 20th March 2014
  #152
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Seccione's Avatar
 

Anyone with experience of Aphex 104 Aural Exciter C2 / Big Bottom?

I just psyched myself interested. Is is all sh*t?
The idea would be to revive some sparkle before/after cassette.
Old 20th March 2014
  #153
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Barfunkel's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seccione View Post
Anyone with experience of Aphex 104 Aural Exciter C2 / Big Bottom?

I just psyched myself interested. Is is all sh*t?
The idea would be to revive some sparkle before/after cassette.
No idea about the Aphex, but aren't exciters basically just a hoax? I had a BBE Sonic Maximizer. Sounded like a really harsh EQ, it just made things sound a lot worse.
Old 20th March 2014
  #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barfunkel View Post
No idea about the Aphex, but aren't exciters basically just a hoax? I had a BBE Sonic Maximizer. Sounded like a really harsh EQ, it just made things sound a lot worse.
Not at all. I have an Aphex 103 and it's great if a bit noisy distortion box. It really helps to make a single track cut through. It's good on some drums too. I wouldn't use it on master though. Try to find the original Aphex Exciter, it's more expensive but quieter and more versatile.
Old 20th March 2014
  #155
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^^ I had Behringer's () exciter long time ago. It sounded like crap, as expected, but I kind of saw the point of that stuff, if implemented properly.

What I've understood, the original Aphex implementation adds harmonic content, and then some voodoo blah blah.

The point being, maybe there is something more than EQ'ing going on.
I wouldn't trust that sh*t fixing my bass end, but maybe to restore some high freqs?
Old 20th March 2014
  #156
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I've come to understand that it creates harmonic distortion therefore "inventing" harmonics and then summing that with the original signal with tuneable crossover point. So basically it is a high frequency distortion unit. There may be more to it but voodoo it isn't.
Old 20th March 2014
  #157
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Seccione's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barfunkel View Post
No idea about the Aphex, but aren't exciters basically just a hoax? I had a BBE Sonic Maximizer. Sounded like a really harsh EQ, it just made things sound a lot worse.
I found this old S.O.S article which actually explains the difference between brands:

Quote:
Only the Aphex system (and its immediate imitators) are true 'Aural Exciters' which go to the trouble of generating the missing or diminished upper harmonics. Both the BBE and SPL systems (and their ilk) rely more on applying carefully designed dynamic equalisation processes which typically combine a modest recess in the mid-band with a slightly boosted treble region.
Article on S.O.S
Old 20th March 2014
  #158
I must confess - my knowledge of the exciters/compressors/limiters and other rack mounted processors is practically 0... but on the other hand there's so much to learn!!

but the day before yesterday I've been to my tech and brought him my Alisa 1377 for repairs (finally!!! after 1,5 years! damn I'm lazy)
as well as my "Venec AP-01" which looks like this 100% Pure Analog! (How?)-venec2.jpg
this is a bombous delay/modulator/reverse effect. manual also says it can do flange and chorus effects - but I'm not sure about that - mine would self oscillate and turning it on every time I felt like it's gonna hit me with 220v!!!
hopefully my tech can tame this monster! that thing reeks EVIL!
Old 20th March 2014
  #159
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wwjd's Avatar
I meant the quality of the WRITING of the song.... a suck song on digital will STILL suck on analog and vice versa. And a GREAT song is still great on ANY medium. But you all know this.

ALL the failures in analog - compression, tape hysteresis, distortion, roll off, saturation, even mangling the physical tape can be done digitally. ALL of it.

Still nothing wrong with this thread and doing it all old school. :D Have fun! There are no rules.
Old 20th March 2014
  #160
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wwjd's Avatar
I have an aphex exciter and enjoy it. It is not a hoax. It is an effect to use and abuse and overuse (Cough)John Mayer vocals(cough)
Old 20th March 2014
  #161
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dlmorley's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by wwjd View Post
ALL the failures in analog - compression, tape hysteresis, distortion, roll off, saturation, even mangling the physical tape can be done digitally. ALL of it.
Can ALL the digital failures be done in the analogue domain?

Old 20th March 2014
  #162
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wwjd's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlmorley View Post
Can ALL the digital failures be done in the analogue domain?

if by failures you mean perfect, uncolored audio, then sadly, no, analog can not recreate that.

if you wanted to digitally stutter, glitch or recreate so called artifacts, sure an effects box would let you print that to analog tape.
Old 20th March 2014
  #163
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pinkerton's Avatar
 

Sure it can theoretically all be done in digital but what's the point if the tape is effortless
Old 20th March 2014
  #164
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wwjd's Avatar
Oh, I agree. I see no need to add noise, flutter, roll off and other faults to make a great digital recording sound like old crap. But that is just me.
Old 20th March 2014
  #165
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I once saw a movie 'filmed' on digital. It looked like ****.
Old 20th March 2014
  #166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seccione View Post
I once saw a movie 'filmed' on digital. It looked like ****.
Really depends on who's doing what. Talented people make good stuff regardless of gear; more a matter of what you enjoy. If I like something, I don't really care how it was done; just need to know if there's something I can use for my own purposes or explores in more detail an area I have an interest in

btw, 28 Days Later was digital. District 9. Zombieland. Girl With The Dragon Tattoo. Gravity... and many others:
List_of_films_shot_in_digital
(yep, a number of 'em do suck, but seriously it's the future and it's now; film is already becoming special feature only)
Old 20th March 2014
  #167
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Seccione's Avatar
 

Yes, I know, but this is a analog appreciation thread, and I would like to keep it that way.
Old 20th March 2014
  #168
Well special feature or not whatever....

there is such thing as "industry standards" ... I often work in movie industry... of course everything is shot in digital... doesn't make movie better or worse (I can't stress it enough) in terms of plot, acting, costumes, lighting, camera work etc...
But... there is one BIG BUT.... It's just a binary code!!! It may look pretty it may win 10 oscars... I'm not saying it's **** because it's digital... but I can't touch it!!
and i love to touch things.. i like to shoot real film dammit... develop it, make prints... whatever... as been said "a matter of what you enjoy"

While real film is the real deal... of course very few directors/cameramen would work with film nowadays... but some of them do.

I had a similar discussion while i was involved as a supportive/documentary cameraman in a movie this summer...
so eventually this girl said something like "well there's no difference in photography whether you shoot film or digital, but there is difference whether you shoot film or digital in cinema"... seriously???
For a moment I really wanted to hit her with my film canon EOS... really hard
but then I thought to hell with it... I'm a peaceful cat. Meh... let it be...

I really went off topic here again I think...
Old 20th March 2014
  #169
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wwjd's Avatar
that is a very valid comparison and analogy. I'm working with digital film editing now, and can see the direct comparisons: visual & audio. Audio has a 20 year headstart, and digital film is finally catching up to this change over. But it is the same issue presented here that audio went through.

right now, we are adding "film grain", shooting slow analog film style 24 frames per second, and embracing "OFF" coloring like what analog FILM imparts to the production. Everything that was the ONLY option in the past thanks to the limitations of physical film. Why do we add all that? Because digital is colored TOO perfect, the image is TOO clear, the higher frames rates get TOO close to reality. So, we embrace the crap once again - because that is what people are USED TO, not what is best. I prefer 4K, 60 Frames per second, and sometime in the near future, people will get used to it and embrace it..... just like CDs, MP3s, onlien streaming, recording digitally.
Old 20th March 2014
  #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seccione View Post
I once saw a movie 'filmed' on digital. It looked like ****.
Not many places anymore where you can watch NEW films on film..
Old 20th March 2014
  #171
Quote:
Originally Posted by wwjd View Post
that is a very valid comparison and analogy. I'm working with digital film editing now, and can see the direct comparisons: visual & audio. Audio has a 20 year headstart, and digital film is finally catching up to this change over. But it is the same issue presented here that audio went through.

right now, we are adding "film grain", shooting slow analog film style 24 frames per second, and embracing "OFF" coloring like what analog FILM imparts to the production. Everything that was the ONLY option in the past thanks to the limitations of physical film. Why do we add all that? Because digital is colored TOO perfect, the image is TOO clear, the higher frames rates get TOO close to reality. So, we embrace the crap once again - because that is what people are USED TO, not what is best. I prefer 4K, 60 Frames per second, and sometime in the near future, people will get used to it and embrace it..... just like CDs, MP3s, onlien streaming, recording digitally.
exactly!!! the head cameraman made me install technicolor Cinestyle to my 5d mkII because it is closer to film and the post processing is easier!
Old 20th March 2014
  #172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teofunk View Post
Not many places anymore where you can watch NEW films on film..
But there are some where you can watch old ones
Old 20th March 2014
  #173
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wwjd's Avatar
(more preaching)

THE BEST thing about Analog that you, OP, will find out, is it WILL make you a better artist. You will have to fully write and plan out your songs to record them - unless you plan to cut tape? You will organize intsturments to fit well together, decide the flow, maybe even learn to play things for REAL, rather than midi'd. --- if you go FULL ANALOG, Midi doesn't exist.

This is why most older music is "classic" and listenable and a large portion of new stuff sounds like a cut and pasted spreadsheet.... because it is.
One doesn't make a fine meal by wondering pointlessly through many stores, randomly grabbing various foods that don't fit well together, then tossing them on a plate and eating.... you make a fine meal by PLANNING everything out from the cooking to the table ambience, then sit and enjoy the wonderous festivity of eating it. Same with music.
Old 20th March 2014
  #174
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wwjd's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kosmoflot View Post
exactly!!! the head cameraman made me install technicolor Cinestyle to my 5d mkII because it is closer to film and the post processing is easier!

I never shoot without CINESTYLE profile! Love it! Some whine about lost bits, but to me, the end result is ALL that matters. It equates to Mastering Compression in music, but for video.
Old 20th March 2014
  #175
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Wwjd, I already stated not to use midi because my analog synths doesn't have such thing. Also I don't want to use computers for this because I've learned to hate them because of my day job as a programmer. For me, computers are no good for anything else than trolling GS and wathcing porn.

I also had my piece of 'tape cutting' while working at a small radio broadcast station in the late 90's. We already had minidisk at the time, but oldskoolers still preferred r2r for making programming, and I was the poor bastard doing some editing.
Old 20th March 2014
  #176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seccione View Post
computers are no good for anything else than trolling GS and wathcing porn.
Brilliant!

Seccione with that tape cutting experience you can go Delia Derbishire style recordings... but that would involve hell of a lot r2r recorders though!
Old 20th March 2014
  #177
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Seccione's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kosmoflot View Post
but that would involve hell of a lot r2r recorders though!
If I only could afford one! :D
Old 20th March 2014
  #178
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wwjd's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seccione View Post
Wwjd, Also I don't want to use computers for this because I've learned to hate them because of my day job as a programmer.

I'm 1000% with you there! I'm a comp tech by trade, so I bought a 24 track digital recorder (Zoom R24)that I PRETEND is an analog tape box. I NEVER mouse, nor stare at a screen, have tactile transport controls and have to feel and sense timing, instead of staring at it on a screen.

Anyway, I wish you luck having a ball in the analog world! If it weren't so heavy, I'd ship you my 16 track analog tape deck to use, but the shipping cost would be 5 times the worth of the unit.
Old 20th March 2014
  #179
Quote:
Originally Posted by wwjd View Post
I'm 1000% with you there! I'm a comp tech by trade, so I bought a 24 track digital recorder (Zoom R24)that I PRETEND is an analog tape box. I NEVER mouse, nor stare at a screen, have tactile transport controls and have to feel and sense timing, instead of staring at it on a screen.

Anyway, I wish you luck having a ball in the analog world! If it weren't so heavy, I'd ship you my 16 track analog tape deck to use, but the shipping cost would be 5 times the worth of the unit.
wwjd where are you situated? How much does the unit weights?
Old 20th March 2014
  #180
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wwjd's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kosmoflot View Post
wwjd where are you situated? How much does the unit weights?
I'm in the middle of the USA, and it probably weighs above 80 pounds. It's not the weight so much as the SIZE it would need packed to survive any shipping. I think the Tascam MSR-16 sells for less than $200 now (I paid $6100!), and the rubber rollers have melted off anyway. Othewise it was awesome! Great memories - unneeded with digital now.
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