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Elektron Overbridge Drum Machines & Samplers
Old 13th March 2014
  #91
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by barryfell View Post
TI2 is USB2
TI is USB1.1, hence the problems.
Excuse the off topic:
are you really sure that TI 2 uses USB2.0?
I have never seen information that TI2 has upgraded USB.
Old 13th March 2014
  #92
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by unicorn74 View Post
Excuse the off topic:
are you really sure that TI 2 uses USB2.0?
I have never seen information that TI2 has upgraded USB.
They're both the same, check the access forums. If the virus Ti is 1 then so is the virus ti2. It just had more voices And a redesign I think.

It really depends on your system as to whether the Ti bit works. Mine never did despite a determined 18 months with customer support changing hubs, cables and operating systems etc.
Old 13th March 2014
  #93
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barryfell's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by unicorn74 View Post
Excuse the off topic:
are you really sure that TI 2 uses USB2.0?
I have never seen information that TI2 has upgraded USB.
My mistake, both are 1.1. I'd always assumed TI2 went to 2.
Old 13th March 2014
  #94
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gjvti's Avatar
 

As far as I remember conversation TI is USB2, but USB1.1 compatible with speed/bandwidth limit to 12 MBit
Old 13th March 2014
  #95
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Yet again people are putting aggregates forward as a easy solution, as in the AIRA thread.

Don't expect or count on aggregates working. If you have RME drivers, you may be OK.

Also, aggregates on OS X don't really add latency (ASIO4ALL does), unless the new Overbridge driver is slower than the other devices in the aggregate. Your input latency becomes the input latency of your slowest aggregated input driver, and your output latency becomes the output latency of your slowest aggregated output driver. This means that OS X slows down quicker inputs and outputs to line everything up (it adds hidden buffers to the faster audio devices).


The other issue for me with all these new devices with USB audio is performance (USB bandwidth). There's no way I'd be aggregating any more USB devices on my system as I already have a Fireface UCX and an 8 channel MIDI interface, and other USB devices. MIDI timing is bad enough already when I have to use USB MIDI…
Old 13th March 2014
  #96
165099
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiGi_TaL View Post
I found that difficult to understand, how there companies like Elektron that are so sensitive to user needs, bring amazing products, give us all those extra hidden features for free.
And there is companies like Roland that have no clue.
while I agree that this is great for Elektron, I'm not quite sure I follow you with Roland, unless you're assuming that everyone wants analog? as it stands, I feel that Roland have paid attention to people's desires and from functionality to price point, I think they've done quite well. digital also offers some distinct advantages over analog and the upcoming 707 update to the TR-8 and the plug-out feature of the System-1 are two great examples. if Roland's ACB tech is as they say, they've created a basis for future expansion and development that could eventually supplant analog in many ways, that is to say that perhaps this really is the maturation of VA tech, but we'll see.

anyway, Overbridge is a great development and it has me pausing to reconsider Elektron. the Keys is a great design and the Rytm looks like a near-perfect drum machine and it is very much like what the Tempest was originally supposed to be. more than anything this only further highlights the shortcomings that DSI has had with the Tempest. which reminds me, has anyone heard any updates from Linn? we saw a brief taste of the LinnStrument and then nothing at NAMM or Messe... and following the Tempest being scaled back he was supposed to release his own version and that hasn't yet gone anywhere...

but although a Four and Rytm are now even more appealing (and hopefully an Octatrack mk2 is on the way), I think I'm still going to stick with the Airas even though their rudimentary sequencers are a complaint, I just can't justify the expense of Elektron for something which in my case is really just going to be a secondary accessory for Live... it makes more sense for me to spend $1600 on the Aira line than spend roughly the same on one Elektron box, especially since I'd likely be buying three.

tldr; there is cool stuff happening and hopefully multiple USB audio devices work without hassle
Old 13th March 2014
  #97
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barryfell's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanRand View Post
Yet again people are putting aggregates forward as a easy solution, as in the AIRA thread.

Don't expect or count on aggregates working. If you have RME drivers, you may be OK.
I don't think anyone said it was easy, but I guess it's a solution for people who really want to use their main audio interface and use their Elektron box as an audio interface at the same time.

I know I won't be and will just stick to the VST managed USB audio.
Old 13th March 2014
  #98
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Yeah I get your point.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that any mention of aggregates should come with some kind of warning. They're hit and miss. Whilst Elektron may have their new drivers working well with aggregates, other audio drivers may not be so forgiving, particularly for older audio interfaces.

I'm not criticising the new product features or Elektron at all. The control and recall of their synths via plugins is what every synth manufacturer should be doing, so they should be praised for that.

If you're not using much USB bandwidth, and you can get aggregates to work this will all be good.
Old 13th March 2014
  #99
if its a different thing routing audio in and out of a plugin vs setting up an interface for a DAW - then thats great no worries about this concept. In fairness - Elektron seem to do their homework so I guess/hope they will have implemented it elegantly...
Old 13th March 2014
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbump View Post
Apologies but I am not sure what you mean.
you said "many companies"

I said "in that field", meaning synth/drums/seq/eff combos

Jomox and Spectralis who were in the hunt and pioneers have ostensibly been

left behind. I don't know who else?

is that clearer?
Old 13th March 2014
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWAN808 View Post
if its a different thing routing audio in and out of a plugin vs setting up an interface for a DAW - then thats great no worries about this concept. In fairness - Elektron seem to do their homework so I guess/hope they will have implemented it elegantly...

I think that's essentially how the Jack plugin works. But Jack needs added latency to work.

But yeah, if you could avoid aggregates and send audio via a plugin (without problems or additional latency) then I reckon that might be a better solution.

I know you can access MIDI drivers inside an AU plugin (bypassing the host). But then again, with audio drivers, word clock alignment and sync across multiple devices is very tricky (this is what the Core Audio HAL takes care of automatically with aggregates).
Old 13th March 2014
  #102
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bil_g's Avatar
 

Just to add to your info on aggregates, DanRand...

Asio4all is just a WDM driver wrapped to look like an ASIO driver - yuck. In Win, Sonar can use multiple devices from different makers via it's WDM driver mode. One device has a significantly different starting position compared to the other every time you press play, though. That's with WC, too. Yuck, again.
Old 13th March 2014
  #103
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The Hamburglar's Avatar
 

Wow, this just made me not care about getting the analog keys and instead simply wanting the analog four...

It is a shame this isn't happening for the Octatrack. That would be a life-saver.
Old 14th March 2014
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thong View Post
you said "many companies"

I said "in that field", meaning synth/drums/seq/eff combos

Jomox and Spectralis who were in the hunt and pioneers have ostensibly been

left behind. I don't know who else?

is that clearer?
Sorry still not sure what you mean. I didn't say many companies.
Old 14th March 2014
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbump View Post
Sorry still not sure what you mean. I didn't say many companies.
Quote:
They do need to up their game as the bar has been raised by many others.
Direct quote above.

So who are the 'many others' if not companies?
Old 14th March 2014
  #106
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by thong View Post
Direct quote above.

So who are the 'many others' if not companies?
Ah yes you are right.

I still don't understand your initial point as it wasn't very well written English.

I'm not sure either of us care though at this point?!
Old 14th March 2014
  #107
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rockreid's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hamburglar View Post
Wow, this just made me not care about getting the analog keys and instead simply wanting the analog four...

It is a shame this isn't happening for the Octatrack. That would be a life-saver.
I can see an OT MkII coming out 2 years from now with full USB Overbridge. Also with more FX and much more processor power to handle 96k sample rate. Probably a re-vamped sampling system as well to make it more intuitive. I don't see a new OT next year as I think Elektron will have its hands full rolling out the A4 Keys, RYTM and related OS updates/bug fixes as well as perhaps working on new Machinedrum and Monomachines.
Old 14th March 2014
  #108
I want this now, Q4 is too long to wait, get a move on Elektron!
Old 14th March 2014
  #109
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Rusty_OHara's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockreid View Post
I can see an OT MkII coming out 2 years from now with full USB Overbridge. Also with more FX and much more processor power to handle 96k sample rate. Probably a re-vamped sampling system as well to make it more intuitive.
I think there would be a number of annoyed users (like me) of the OT if they did that, as I don't think it's quite mature enough yet for them to bring out a MkII... even as early as next year or two years.
Old 15th March 2014
  #110
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lowkey's Avatar
 

^agreed. There needs to be a big OS update to the OT first, with some sort of software for program, parts, bank and sample management!!
Old 15th March 2014
  #111
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The Hamburglar's Avatar
 

It needs a performance update where you can set up your own keymaps of whatever slices from different samples you want!
Old 15th March 2014
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbump View Post
Ah yes you are right.

I still don't understand your initial point as it wasn't very well written English.

I'm not sure either of us care though at this point?!
well then i'll just correct you, there are no others lifting the game.

being obtuse does you no favours.
Old 17th March 2014
  #113
Gear Addict
 
Bobby Vosene's Avatar
 

Am I right in thinking that being able to record audio into the DAW over USB would eliminate problems with MIDI jitter? They mention that it avoids "timing issues", but do they mean jitter, or just latency?
Old 17th March 2014
  #114
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Vosene View Post
Am I right in thinking that being able to record audio into the DAW over USB would eliminate problems with MIDI jitter? They mention that it avoids "timing issues", but do they mean jitter, or just latency?
I would expect they mean latency, as if they have written a driver independent of the DAW it could work AOK as opposed to the DAW latency compensation. I don't see how they would get around any midi jitter in usb land though, as it is inherent in the way modern computers are built. But would they even need actual midi? If they run the whole thing over usb some sort of way without ever getting into midi as such the thing might just work spot on in every way.
Old 17th March 2014
  #115
Gear Maniac
 

USB-MIDI in the A4 itself is fast & solid.
i would guess all controllage & sync is done via MIDI (SysEx)
Old 17th March 2014
  #116
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Bobby Vosene's Avatar
 

Yes... I hope there is no need for MIDI... you have a vst, which could generate it's own sync signal... isn't that how the Expert Sleepers stuff works?
Old 17th March 2014
  #117
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Vosene View Post
Yes... I hope there is no need for MIDI... you have a vst, which could generate it's own sync signal... isn't that how the Expert Sleepers stuff works?
No, the Expeet Sleepers stuff comes out via actual audio outs, no usb whatsoever.
Old 17th March 2014
  #118
VST
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VST's Avatar
Has it been stated that the units will receive midi over usb for all 4 tracks or simply stream audio over usb while leaving the internal sequencer to handle note placements?
Old 17th March 2014
  #119
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Bobby Vosene's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
No, the Expeet Sleepers stuff comes out via actual audio outs, no usb whatsoever.
Yes, but this has audio over usb, so it could work in a similar way... maybe...
Old 17th March 2014
  #120
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Vosene View Post
Yes, but this has audio over usb, so it could work in a similar way... maybe...
The whole point of Expert Sleepers going out of audio outs is that it is the place of sample accurate output, unlike the jittery usb ports. Usb ports on a modern computer are inherently flawed. If no midi interface can do well with that I would be surprised if these guys can do better.
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