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Akai unveils Rhythm Wolf - analog drum machine and bass synth Drum Machines & Samplers
Old 11th March 2014
  #361
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ohsnap you are seriously so annoying
Old 11th March 2014
  #362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CthonicEwes View Post
Bring it on!
I guess If you consider the MFB522 is about twice the price, it's a pretty sweet deal. It's all what you're looking for I suppose.
Old 11th March 2014
  #363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smcumber View Post
ohsnap you are seriously so annoying
If anyone is being a hipster over liking this because it is analogue, it pales in comparison to his carrying on about ACB.

What is the difference, someone liking this because it is analogue, or him liking Aira because it is trying so hard to be analogue.

He is just trolling, because he thinks he needs to get back at people trolling Aira, or some ****.

It is pathetic, he should just get a room with Nickwhack, kiss and make up after their lovers tiff, and toss over their TR-8s in private.
Old 11th March 2014
  #364
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raffor's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by controlvoltage View Post
If you're thinking of Julie Yarbrough, I am pretty sure she has been full-time with Nektar for a couple of years.
Yes, I think that was her name and you are right, she is there for a longer time than my memory served me.

However, she is more than capable to copy some analog drum schematics and improves upon it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensory View Post
I guess If you consider the MFB522 is about twice the price, it's a pretty sweet deal. It's all what you're looking for I suppose.
I take the full 16 steps instead of the 2x8 steps in lieu of some instruments. Maybe the analog wolf thingie would make a good sequencer, like AS Europa for a fraction of the price ones you get the gate/CV out modification .
Old 11th March 2014
  #365
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antistatikk's Avatar
 

Here's a (german) video about the RW - no Audio Demo though :(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyxngciB_zg
Old 11th March 2014
  #366
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asynchro_nous's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensory View Post
At $200 it will probably have a small bandwidth & high signal to noise ratio.
You don't want it to have a high SNR?
Old 11th March 2014
  #367
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count orlok's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohsnap View Post

Aira / ACB is already frowned upon by the hipster community so a burst of the cheap analog bubble won't do any harm.
Besides that / more so, they don't care about a box analog sounding or not, they care about hip. Right now analog is hip. By the time digital is hip again they won't care if it sounds analog as long as it's digital.
that ship sailed years ago. now a days its all about circuit bending and cheap digital casios.
Old 11th March 2014
  #368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antistatikk View Post
Here's a (german) video about the RW - no Audio Demo though :(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyxngciB_zg
Looks nice and solid.
Old 11th March 2014
  #369
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antistatikk View Post
Here's a (german) video about the RW - no Audio Demo though :(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyxngciB_zg
My German is ok, but I didn't catch what he said about what the USB is used for...hoping it can send the audio outs separately, or it's pretty useless as a studio tool.
Old 11th March 2014
  #370
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zerocrossing's Avatar
Simon, you've got to do a little work when you read posts. I've seen a lot of times that you come to odd conclusions based on what people write, just as you have in my post. Let me address some.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonInAustralia View Post
And what were the tolerances of components used in a 1970 MiniMoog, that are so expensive today?
Moog components... no idea. What I do know is that they've always been associated with high fidelity sound and good build quality. It's been many years since I did a DIY electronics project but I do remember that if you went with low tolerance electronic components it could seriously increase your cost. I'm not saying I'm positive this is true, but I imagine that companies like Moog get and maintain their status by using high quality components. If someone knows otherwise, I'd love to hear it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonInAustralia
Made in China no longer means it is junk, plenty of quality electronics is manufactured in China.
Did I say made in China means junk? I did not. I said Made In China often means cheaper. I have lots of well made electronics including the excellent build quality of the laptop I'm typing this on.. which was "developed in Cupertino, assembled in China." However those Apple, Sony, etc, products are expensive, in fact more expensive than the competition. So yeah, you can get good stuff out of China but it won't be that cheap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonInAustralia
They make 200 different versions of the same couple of synths, and price them at the high end of the market.
DSI has 4 distinct synths but makes 11 models based on some variation of each. I agree DSI is a bit bad about innovation but they've been successful so they're trying to milk their designs for all their worth. I agree they're clearly at the end of their curtis chip rope as clearly shown by the dud of a drum machine (IMO) called The Tempest.

However, "price them at the high end of the market" is not true at all. $1500 for an 8 voice polyphonic analog isn't high. You're forgetting that when DSI started making the MoPho and Evolver the analog synth world was pretty barren. The majority of people were excited about the new plug in instruments that were starting to get good. DSI probably knew it couldn't generate the volume of sales to price their synths low. However, as they got proven a success with the sales of the MoPho, they probably should have gotten cheaper as their popularity grew. I think that DSI had better be having some serious meetings about how they're going to cope with rivals like Arturia and Novation. However, none of those companies make what I'd call a high end sounding synth. Interesting and charismatic, but not in a sonic league with Moog, MacBeth or Studio Electronics. They're just not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonInAustralia
So it sounds great due to being made in the US, and if made in China it wouldn't sound as good, wouldn't sound the same? WTF?
Again, I never said this, I just pointed out that Moog and other companies who make stuff in the USA or Europe cost more but are usually known for good build quality... here's one thing I'll point out from my own experience.

I was working on an iOS game and the publisher wanted a ton of artwork in very little time for not much money. We were too small a studio to produce all the art they wanted (as well as work on other games we had going) so they decided to farm it out to China. What we got back varied wildly in quality and even when it was good it often didn't follow our specs. We were doing some fake 3d using a technique called parallax and they consistently sent us artwork that was all on one layer or if they did multiple layers they made no sense in terms of depth (foreground/midground/background). So, I was tasked to fix everything they sent back to us and a lot of it needed so much fixing that it was clear I could have done it myself in about the time it took me to fix them.

So... in the end did we save money? Probably a bit, but in the end I think we'd have done a better job if we had done it internally and sourced some local artists to flesh things out. I think that rings true throughout the outsourcing world, but companies just want profits and even it it helps a bit they'll do it.

So basically what I'm saying is that there's no free lunch. If you want cheap expect human rights abuse galore and low quality control and poor build quality. So what's Akai doing that it can make a 6 voice (5 drum one bass) analog synth for $199? They're sure saving money by hiring a horrible marketing dept. Rhythm Wolf? What I said is, that it will probably not be of the highest sonic or build quality. Again, I'd love to be proven wrong but my guess is that this thing will be in the same league with the MFB-522 and comfortably far from 808 or 909 quality. I'll still get it though, especially if they get it in that sweet spot of "interesting." I've got tons of high quality 808 samples if I need that sound already. That's why the TR-8 is a fail to me. It didn't go far enough away from it's ancestor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonInAustralia
I never said they don't know what they are doing, but their particular choices of voices on IC, digital effects, etc., have lead to their products not having the best analogue synth sounds.
Right, but those choices were made based on the environment of the real world, not on what Dave Smith's dream synth would be. Again, remember that there were a lot less choices when the MoPho came out and people, (myself included) were doing a lot of VA work ITB. DSI's only sin, IMO is that they've not woken up and smelled their own coffee. Like them or not, they're very responsible for the current wave of inexpensive analogs as they proved it could be prophitable (see what I did there ) Now they just have to get off their Curtis chip ass and make something really new that rivals the cost of the Minibrute.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonInAustralia
Doesn't matter what his sought after vintage synths are like, the sound of his new gear is simply not held in the same regard.
To a lot of people, yes, this is true. Not to me though. Yes, I'm aware that the "classics" are great, but I'm also a pragmatist. First of all, there's no way I'd shell out the money 808s or 909s fetch no matter what. I'll do a set with my Maschine that'll eat those two boxes for lunch every day of the week and twice on Sunday. I've got access to samples of x0x boxes that have been run through high end processing gear that sound better than the originals and frankly that x0x style of sequencing never did anything for me. I want to tap out my beats. I want patch memory and modern features. I'll leave antique collecting to others. The current offerings on the market are good enough for me, but I'll tell you I passed on the MS20 Mini because they didn't update it enough. Doesn't recognise velocity? FAIL.

So..... in conclusion. Try and be more careful when you read my posts. I'm cautiously excited about the Rhythm Wolf. I was excited about the TR-8 too until I realized they'd played it too safe. If the Rhythm Wolf sounds decent, and more importantly, sounds interesting, it's cheap enough to be a no brainer. If they botch it like Korg botched the Volca Beat, I'll pass no matter what it costs.
Old 11th March 2014
  #371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Accent View Post
My German is ok, but I didn't catch what he said about what the USB is used for...hoping it can send the audio outs separately, or it's pretty useless as a studio tool.
I would be very surprised if at $200 it also streams audio via usb.
Old 11th March 2014
  #372
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flat's Avatar
This is the first time I have felt compelled to buy something without actually hearing it.

Never thought it would be an Akai product
Old 11th March 2014
  #373
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zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joninow View Post
I personally thought the Volca series sounded cheap and toyish.

For me it was a lesson that analog does not always mean great sound.

Having said that... I am totally interested in hearing this machine...
I agree wholeheartedly.
Old 11th March 2014
  #374
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knobhead View Post
I would be very surprised if at $200 it also streams audio via usb.
The specs say USB-MIDI, it is not going to do audio over USB.
Old 11th March 2014
  #375
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zerocrossing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by slujj vohaul View Post
...Oh, and BTW, before I'm condemned as some analog master race a-hole, I should mention that I currently own ZERO analog instruments - I just sold my A4 and BS2. You know what I want next? A Rocket. That's right, a VA in a box. I do love my OP-1 though, so I must be at least 10% hipster.
Dude... you may have a bit of a problem. You just bought those instruments... did you even have them long enough to discover all their features? Why so fickle? I remember you being so in love with them...
Old 11th March 2014
  #376
Gear Addict
 

like I said dude you are really genuinely annoying, and now you're posting gross pictures along with needlessly abrasive, aggressive content. why can't people just be excited about something without someone coming in and talking about hipsters or whatever their latest obsession is.
Old 11th March 2014
  #377
Deleted c1b33bf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asynchro_nous View Post
You don't want it to have a high SNR?
To clarify, a high amount of noise in relation to signal power.
Old 11th March 2014
  #378
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flat's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohsnap View Post
and as soon as an Akai branded Volca beats is announced y'all get all sensitive and feel personally attacked.
I cant see very much similarity other than the inclusion of analogue sounds. This Wolf and Volca seem very different function wise.

Perhaps a great pairing?
Old 11th March 2014
  #379
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smcumber View Post
like I said dude you are really genuinely annoying, and now you're posting gross pictures along with needlessly abrasive, aggressive content. why can't people just be excited about something without someone coming in and talking about hipsters or whatever their latest obsession is.

its the same 4 or 5 people that kill every new gear thread, just look at the aira page and you will see the same bull****. People like this give this forum a bad name and its to bad because this can be a great forum at times. Just remeber to use the ignore button
Old 11th March 2014
  #380
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bil_g's Avatar
 

Well, I can't wait until we all can indeed red sausage.

Akai unveils Rhythm Wolf - analog drum machine and bass synth-wolfsausage.jpg

It's been so long...
Old 11th March 2014
  #381
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flat earth View Post
I cant see very much similarity other than the inclusion of analogue sounds. This Wolf and Volca seem very different function wise.

Perhaps a great pairing?
yea, just by looking at the machine in the youtube video it does appear at first glance to be built better, with more features. Im really looking forward to hearing the demos so we can put all the speculation to rest.

And great job by akai in not hyping this up for weeks before unveiling it
Old 11th March 2014
  #382
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted c1b33bf View Post
To clarify, a high amount of noise in relation to signal power.
Sounds fizzy to me.
Old 11th March 2014
  #383
bry
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Accent View Post
I didn't catch what he said about what the USB is used for...hoping it can send the audio outs separately, or it's pretty useless as a studio tool.
It's an analog machine, no USB audio, and of course no USB multi channel audio, but judging from the size, the possibility of modding it to include individual outputs is pretty high.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
What I said is ... that it will probably not be of the highest sonic or build quality.
You make good points, but I'm not sure I agree with this part.
I agree Moog is positioning themselves as a top quality company at what they do. Their pricing not only reflects the quality of their products, but also the size they wanna be, and they probably don't want to be selling synths by the hundreds of thousands, since that would necessarily change the company into something they might not want to be. I'm pretty damn sure Ferrari could come up with a car that goes as fast as their cars go for 1/10 of the price, but that's not what they are as a company. There's other companies doing it.
But even Moog has made lesser products, and synths like the Slim Phatty turned out to have some serious issues (temperature and tuning), making the extra cost not that worth it.

Now what I don't agree is the assumption that the Akai Pro drum machine can't be good because it's cheap... they're probably making them in much higher quantities, and from a technical and economical standpoint, I don't see why those 4 analog drum voices can't be just as good as the ones on an original 808.
The bass synth will be limited for sure, which doesn't mean it will be useless or won't sound great.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohsnap View Post
lol, you guys.
You know it's just funny / interesting to see...
Welcome to yet another ignore list...
Old 11th March 2014
  #384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohsnap View Post
lol, you guys.
You know it's just funny / interesting to see how on the Aira thread nothing was too much, no animated gif too corny and as soon as an Akai branded Volca beats is announced y'all get all sensitive and feel personally attacked.
I don't see anyone here getting all sensitive and feeling personally attacked, more that is just you with those residual feelings from the Aira thread, projecting them onto others here, and thinking that you are getting back at everyone who made you all sensitive and feeling personally attacked over your Aira/ACB fanboy love.

Seriously, no one here really cares about this like you do about Aira.
Old 11th March 2014
  #385
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Yeah...I used the ignore button for the first time i think.
Old 11th March 2014
  #386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted c1b33bf View Post
To clarify, a high amount of noise in relation to signal power.
Based on what, the MS-20 Mini?
Old 11th March 2014
  #387
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Maxadax's Avatar
 

I've said it before and I'll say it again; we're living in a golden age
Old 11th March 2014
  #388
Deleted c1b33bf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonInAustralia View Post
Based on what, the MS-20 Mini?
It's my guess that it would be close to something like a MFB522. Never used the MS-20 mini, only the MS10.
The point I was trying to make is don't expect too much from something with this low a price tag.
If it could be used as a decent sequencer for cv as Raffor mentioned then maybe I'm underestimating it.
Old 11th March 2014
  #389
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Maxadax's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seccione View Post
I'm grateful for Akai (and Korg) for being a big player pushing out analogs.
I have this gut feeling that they're both testing the markets with these cheap
little boxes to see if people really still want analog. If the market says 'yes',
they might start making us some bigger boxes as well. (please!)

This should put pressure on Roland as well, they just can't repackage VA
again next year.

(Oh wait, it's Roland. Sure they can! )
Don't forget Arturia!

And I don't think Roland will ever make another analog piece of equipment, they've slagged off analog way too much to go to it. I think Roland are more likely to pull out of making synths altogether than to go to making analog gear.
Old 11th March 2014
  #390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
Moog components... no idea. What I do know is that they've always been associated with high fidelity sound and good build quality. It's been many years since I did a DIY electronics project but I do remember that if you went with low tolerance electronic components it could seriously increase your cost. I'm not saying I'm positive this is true, but I imagine that companies like Moog get and maintain their status by using high quality components.
If you are talking about a $200 MiniMoog reissue ($200 was used by you for dramatic effect, it would probably have to be more in the $500-1000 range), then you are talking about reissuing a 1970 synth, with the same tolerance/quality of components they used in 1970, not necessarily what they are using now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
Did I say made in China means junk? I did not. I said Made In China often means cheaper. I have lots of well made electronics including the excellent build quality of the laptop I'm typing this on.. which was "developed in Cupertino, assembled in China." However those Apple, Sony, etc, products are expensive, in fact more expensive than the competition. So yeah, you can get good stuff out of China but it won't be that cheap.
Really not sure the high price of Apple and Sony gear is due to manufacturing costs, more likely you are paying for the "developed in Cupertino", "Apple", and "Sony" logos, along with their profit margins.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
DSI has 4 distinct synths but makes 11 models based on some variation of each.
I was more talking about Moog repackaging the Voyager in so many different versions, and it's price. But yes, the repackaging the same **** in many different boxes applies to DSI as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
You're forgetting that when DSI started making the MoPho and Evolver the analog synth world was pretty barren.
And the base DSI synth sound quality itself has not moved on that much since then. He may have made legend synths like the Prophet 5, but the sound quality of his current gear doesn't hit the same mark.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
Interesting and charismatic, but not in a sonic league with Moog, MacBeth or Studio Electronics. They're just not.
Moog isn't all that with sound quality anyway.

The Voyager slew rate issue is an example, Bob wasn't interested in fixing the problem with the slew rate of the opamps, and used a capacitor in the circuit which ended up acting like a 6dB filter at higher frequencies, it was pointed out to him, but he wasn't interested. The sound comparisons between the Voyager and the MiniMoog, with the Voyager not being as bright as the MiniMoog, are probably due to that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
Again, I never said this, I just pointed out that Moog and other companies who make stuff in the USA or Europe cost more but are usually known for good build quality
There seemed to be an implication that made in USA equalled good quality at high price, and made in China equalled poor quality at low price. It really depends on the choices of, and relationships with, the Chinese manufacturers. Larger manufacturers are more likely going to have better relationships with their Chinese manufacturers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
So basically what I'm saying is that there's no free lunch. If you want cheap expect human rights abuse galore and low quality control and poor build quality.
There is no escaping the human rights issues, that is more about corporate globalisation, and free trade agreements, which let corporations move manufacturing to wherever the financial cost is lowest, with no regards to human rights and environmental conditions.

Did those factors affect your Chinese made laptop purchase, or purchases of other tech gear?

Not really sure how much human rights issues of the manufacturers employees are considered in any music equipment purchase.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
To a lot of people, yes, this is true. Not to me though. Yes, I'm aware that the "classics" are great, but I'm also a pragmatist. First of all, there's no way I'd shell out the money 808s or 909s fetch no matter what. I'll do a set with my Maschine that'll eat those two boxes for lunch every day of the week and twice on Sunday. I've got access to samples of x0x boxes that have been run through high end processing gear that sound better than the originals and frankly that x0x style of sequencing never did anything for me. I want to tap out my beats. I want patch memory and modern features. I'll leave antique collecting to others.
Some people like the anitquted workflow, and the user interfaces of the original boxes, they have an emotional attachment to them through the music they enjoy and/or grew up listening to.

Nothing wrong with someone being happy with 808/909 samples, or someone wanting to use the real thing, doesn't really bother me. I'd personally rather the real thing, and will still buy a real 909 when I get around to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerocrossing View Post
The current offerings on the market are good enough for me, but I'll tell you I passed on the MS20 Mini because they didn't update it enough. Doesn't recognise velocity? FAIL.
Thinking that a reissue MS-20 should be updated with things such as velocity is fail in itself, that is not what it is about, but hopefully the expanding market it is part of leads to something new that addresses those sort of modern features in real analogue.

There seems to be a growing real analogue market, and if it starts at the bottom price wise, or with functional recreations of sought after vintage gear, I really don't see the problem, and think it will push it's way up into more modern designed analogue gear.
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