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Waldorf Streichfett Keyboard Synthesizers
Old 12th March 2014
  #211
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pandar's Avatar
 

The emulation of the divide down oscillator is the really crucial part divide down has a unique sound and when combined with analog chorus it will be as close to a midi string machine as possible (no midi on classic divide down synth).
Old 12th March 2014
  #212
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since it seems they are not finalized on either the hard or software yet perhaps there is still a way to lobby them to include an Audio input to take advantage of the Ensemble and FX. That would make it an automatic Buy from me as you would be getting a (digital) FX unit as part of the package.
Old 12th March 2014
  #213


Release in about 6 weeks, price around 240 euros.
Old 12th March 2014
  #214
both elkorus and oakley sound gorgeous.. thinking of selling my solina and getting one of those and then using whatever for source, polyanalog, dco, digital.. solina sampled without ensemble etc.


i've listened to the messe clip, and the waldorf unit sounds little harsh on the edges, and not as liquid warm. however the dry sound isn't bad, its in the ballpark. so driving waldorf into a real analog ensemble and phaser might be a great solution for those who want that extra something towards accurate sound (and still avoid luggin arround a real stringer. i did once or twice, and my back and hands still remember it..)
Old 13th March 2014
  #215
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AutomaticGainsay's Avatar
Let me break this down from an analog-obsessive vintage-loving nostalgia-embracing perspective.

What is a stringer? A stringer is a keyboard device that was designed in the 1970s (mostly) to emulate string section sounds in rock music. It was discovered pretty early that sawtooth waves, especially layered or chorused, could be used to fake the sounds of string ensembles. Okay, so that's awesome.

So, then... keyboards were made to do this. Why? Because prog, pop, and disco used a lot of string ensemble sounds in the late 70s. Are these things deadringers for strings? Hell no. But in the context of the time, they sounded enough like strings that people who didn't know what could make string sounds that weren't strings thought they were strings. YAY! Cheap strings.

The other benefit of string synths was that they were usually really cheap. They could sound synthesizery... which was desirable. Real synthesizers were expensive, string synths were cheaper.

This is why the ARP Omni was one of the best-selling synthesizers in the 1970s. Cheap. Could generate some polyphonic synth sounds.

But string synths are usually divide-down. And often, in addition to being divide-down, they are often paraphonic. Do modern synth players like divide-down and paraphonic? No! Because these designs don't sound like modern synths. Modern synths have limited polyphony but articulation. This is why in around 2002 you could get a string synth for almost nothing. No one wanted them.

So Waldorf wants to make a stringer? Cool! Oh, wait... why? Is there a market out there for people who want a device that was primarily used for disco and prog and sometimes in New Wave when the band was too unfamous to afford real polyphonic synths? Is there a market for a synthesizer that basically does one thing? Well, I wouldn't think so. But maybe.
What would be the benefit of a stringer in the world today? Well, it'd be an inexpensive polyphonic analog synth, of course! Nothing like divide-down analog oscillators run through a rich analog chorus, right? No. This is digital.
So, what is the benefit of a digital stringer? Absolutely NOTHING. Which one of you doesn't have a polyphonic synthesizer capable of creating sawtooth waves? That is ALL MOST STRINGERS ARE... a single layer of sawtooth waves that you can put through a chorus. Some of them have multiple layers... and that's awesome because you can detune... but what digital synth or software can't create multiple layers of polyphonic sawtooths? What digital or software synths don't have chorus and other effects you can add to the saws to create a rich chorus effect? Who doesn't have access to software that can do what this purports to do... better, for free, and without clutter?

This is why I, as an analog-obsessive vintage-loving nostalgia-embracing synthesist, do not understand the enthusiasm about this product.
Old 13th March 2014
  #216
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cr73645's Avatar
I applaud you mr. Marc Doty!
Old 13th March 2014
  #217
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pandar's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AutomaticGainsay View Post
Let me break this down from an analog-obsessive vintage-loving nostalgia-embracing perspective.

What is a stringer? A stringer is a keyboard device that was designed in the 1970s (mostly) to emulate string section sounds in rock music. It was discovered pretty early that sawtooth waves, especially layered or chorused, could be used to fake the sounds of string ensembles. Okay, so that's awesome.

So, then... keyboards were made to do this. Why? Because prog, pop, and disco used a lot of string ensemble sounds in the late 70s. Are these things deadringers for strings? Hell no. But in the context of the time, they sounded enough like strings that people who didn't know what could make string sounds that weren't strings thought they were strings. YAY! Cheap strings.

The other benefit of string synths was that they were usually really cheap. They could sound synthesizery... which was desirable. Real synthesizers were expensive, string synths were cheaper.

This is why the ARP Omni was one of the best-selling synthesizers in the 1970s. Cheap. Could generate some polyphonic synth sounds.

But string synths are usually divide-down. And often, in addition to being divide-down, they are often paraphonic. Do modern synth players like divide-down and paraphonic? No! Because these designs don't sound like modern synths. Modern synths have limited polyphony but articulation. This is why in around 2002 you could get a string synth for almost nothing. No one wanted them.

So Waldorf wants to make a stringer? Cool! Oh, wait... why? Is there a market out there for people who want a device that was primarily used for disco and prog and sometimes in New Wave when the band was too unfamous to afford real polyphonic synths? Is there a market for a synthesizer that basically does one thing? Well, I wouldn't think so. But maybe.
What would be the benefit of a stringer in the world today? Well, it'd be an inexpensive polyphonic analog synth, of course! Nothing like divide-down analog oscillators run through a rich analog chorus, right? No. This is digital.
So, what is the benefit of a digital stringer? Absolutely NOTHING. Which one of you doesn't have a polyphonic synthesizer capable of creating sawtooth waves? That is ALL MOST STRINGERS ARE... a single layer of sawtooth waves that you can put through a chorus. Some of them have multiple layers... and that's awesome because you can detune... but what digital synth or software can't create multiple layers of polyphonic sawtooths? What digital or software synths don't have chorus and other effects you can add to the saws to create a rich chorus effect? Who doesn't have access to software that can do what this purports to do... better, for free, and without clutter?

This is why I, as an analog-obsessive vintage-loving nostalgia-embracing synthesist, do not understand the enthusiasm about this product.
Divide down oscillators sound different the polysynths because every note it plays is phase related. Without chorus the sound is pretty sh*t admittedly but with it is unique and some people find it beautiful.
Old 13th March 2014
  #218
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B3Nut's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pandar View Post
Divide down oscillators sound different the polysynths because every note it plays is phase related.
This. A divide-down stringer has a *very* different character than merely throwing a couple detuned saws together on a standard subtractive polysynth. Stringers have a specific character that a polysynth or rompler just doesn't quite nail. I still kick myself for letting my RS-202 go many years ago...this little box looks like it might just be a fun way to scratch that itch.
Old 13th March 2014
  #219
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payt's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AutomaticGainsay View Post
Let me break this down from an analog-obsessive vintage-loving nostalgia-embracing perspective.

What is a stringer? A stringer is a keyboard device that was designed in the 1970s (mostly) to emulate string section sounds in rock music. It was discovered pretty early that sawtooth waves, especially layered or chorused, could be used to fake the sounds of string ensembles. Okay, so that's awesome.

So, then... keyboards were made to do this. Why? Because prog, pop, and disco used a lot of string ensemble sounds in the late 70s. Are these things deadringers for strings? Hell no. But in the context of the time, they sounded enough like strings that people who didn't know what could make string sounds that weren't strings thought they were strings. YAY! Cheap strings.

The other benefit of string synths was that they were usually really cheap. They could sound synthesizery... which was desirable. Real synthesizers were expensive, string synths were cheaper.

This is why the ARP Omni was one of the best-selling synthesizers in the 1970s. Cheap. Could generate some polyphonic synth sounds.

But string synths are usually divide-down. And often, in addition to being divide-down, they are often paraphonic. Do modern synth players like divide-down and paraphonic? No! Because these designs don't sound like modern synths. Modern synths have limited polyphony but articulation. This is why in around 2002 you could get a string synth for almost nothing. No one wanted them.

So Waldorf wants to make a stringer? Cool! Oh, wait... why? Is there a market out there for people who want a device that was primarily used for disco and prog and sometimes in New Wave when the band was too unfamous to afford real polyphonic synths? Is there a market for a synthesizer that basically does one thing? Well, I wouldn't think so. But maybe.
What would be the benefit of a stringer in the world today? Well, it'd be an inexpensive polyphonic analog synth, of course! Nothing like divide-down analog oscillators run through a rich analog chorus, right? No. This is digital.
So, what is the benefit of a digital stringer? Absolutely NOTHING. Which one of you doesn't have a polyphonic synthesizer capable of creating sawtooth waves? That is ALL MOST STRINGERS ARE... a single layer of sawtooth waves that you can put through a chorus. Some of them have multiple layers... and that's awesome because you can detune... but what digital synth or software can't create multiple layers of polyphonic sawtooths? What digital or software synths don't have chorus and other effects you can add to the saws to create a rich chorus effect? Who doesn't have access to software that can do what this purports to do... better, for free, and without clutter?

This is why I, as an analog-obsessive vintage-loving nostalgia-embracing synthesist, do not understand the enthusiasm about this product.

The thing about string synths is that they do have a unique sound, due to their usage of a BBD ensemble device chorus thing (usually, there are some exceptions, such as the Freeman string synth, which uses.. guess what? multiple detuned oscs).

But yes.. this thing is digital, and you can get some really nice free stringsynth VST's (such as this one) which pretty much cover anything stringsynth you could want.

Still.. I do like the Streichfett.. It's probably way more inspiring to play with than having to work with stuff on your screen. I like buttons and knobs, and it's way easier to take with me to a jam session.. so I may go for one of these anyway. Then again.. I also need a TR 8, or a Rhythm Wolf.. or a new odyssey
.. or or or..
Old 13th March 2014
  #220
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AutomaticGainsay's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by B3Nut View Post
This. A divide-down stringer has a *very* different character than merely throwing a couple detuned saws together on a standard subtractive polysynth. Stringers have a specific character that a polysynth or rompler just doesn't quite nail. I still kick myself for letting my RS-202 go many years ago...this little box looks like it might just be a fun way to scratch that itch.
The general feeling is that the oscillators which are traditionally used on stringers are "sterile" because they are much more stable than the oscillators traditionally used on analog polysynths. Without that "sterility," non-fixed-pitch oscillators should actually sound more like strings... which should make them more desirable.
All of that being said... a digital oscillator isn't going to nail that sound, either.
Old 13th March 2014
  #221
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pandar's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AutomaticGainsay View Post
The general feeling is that the oscillators which are traditionally used on stringers are "sterile" because they are much more stable than the oscillators traditionally used on analog polysynths. Without that "sterility," non-fixed-pitch oscillators should actually sound more like strings... which should make them more desirable.
All of that being said... a digital oscillator isn't going to nail that sound, either.
The issue isn't the individual notes its the relationships between them. On a divide down every note is in phase all the time. While this is true the oscillator is still free running. This is actually something quite cpu costly to do with dsp. Esp if you like do proper anti-aliasing instead of just oversampling.
Old 13th March 2014
  #222
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As my ARP Solina blew up in 82', and I sold my Moog Opus 3 (which was kind of a string machine) are long gone. I think Waldorf's new stringer would make a nice addition to my music gear.
Old 13th March 2014
  #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AutomaticGainsay View Post
So Waldorf wants to make a stringer? Cool! Oh, wait... why? Is there a market out there for people who want a device that was primarily used for disco and prog and sometimes in New Wave when the band was too unfamous to afford real polyphonic synths? Is there a market for a synthesizer that basically does one thing? Well, I wouldn't think so. But maybe.
Marc - Your Youtube vids have on more than one occasion swayed me into a purchase, none of which I regret! I see you as a fantastic authority on synths and find your enthusiasm to be very infectious.

However on this one I think you are dead wrong.

There may be technical reasons why you feel this would be a bad buy but I don't think you've considered the best reason to buy one. FUN!

The sounds on the prototype point to this filling a sonic hole in my pallette and yes I would love to add some softcore cheese to my sound options. Listening to that vid left me with several inspirations I can't wait to pursue.

So while I look to your opinion on most synths, no man is right all of the time.

And btw there is a market. Disco is BACK baby in more than one genre. Nu-disco, Ital-Disco, and more. That last Daft Punk album was rehashed Disco. So yeah the market is there. New Wave is back as well. Yacht shows this.
Old 13th March 2014
  #224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AutomaticGainsay View Post
Let me break this down from an analog-obsessive vintage-loving nostalgia-embracing perspective...
This is why I, as an analog-obsessive vintage-loving nostalgia-embracing synthesist, do not understand the enthusiasm about this product.

I'll take a crack at it.

I have an Integra7 and a TX81z in hardware and Jupiter8V and Z3ta2 in software. All sorts of stringy goodness to be had. So why am I interested? Because 1: I have an unhealthy love of sting sounds. 2: none of my stuff is paraphonic. 3: I want an inexpensive box I can dedicate to the purpose of 'stringer' without repair issues.

That way I free up a couple outputs on my Integra for something other than a background pad and it's one less softsynth to have to worry about.

All this thing has to do is sound good and I'm there with bells on.

PS, thanks for the outstanding education you provide via your vids.
Old 13th March 2014
  #225
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I'm probably being too pragmatic about all of it, to be sure. Ultimately, it does come down to whatever inspires you.

But I thought I'd lay out a big bunch of pragmatic crap. :D
Old 13th March 2014
  #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AutomaticGainsay View Post
I'm probably being too pragmatic about all of it, to be sure. Ultimately, it does come down to whatever inspires you.

But I thought I'd lay out a big bunch of pragmatic crap. :D

DUUUUDE!!!! Don't bogart the Moog mannn...(bong hit) Like thats some deep stuff...
Old 13th March 2014
  #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AutomaticGainsay View Post
I'm probably being too pragmatic about all of it, to be sure. Ultimately, it does come down to whatever inspires you.

But I thought I'd lay out a big bunch of pragmatic crap. :D
No worries Marc. Your crap doesn't stink.

But DO deliver more stellar vids. I look forward to your take on this when it is available, so approach it with an open mind. Also would kill to see your videos on the Sub37 and upcoming Boomstars. And in case I missed it would like to see your take on the Elektron Analog Keys!
Old 13th March 2014
  #228
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Marc, my go to synth shop guy's been mucking about with it at Musikmesse and he says it's top notch despite being digital. Try it before you hate it!

It's fully polyphonic, 88 voices! Dunno if the fx are digital but who cares if it sounds good? Nothing a nice pedal won't butter up! Haha!
Old 13th March 2014
  #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AutomaticGainsay View Post
they sounded enough like strings that people who didn't know what could make string sounds that weren't strings thought they were strings. YAY! Cheap strings.
Old 13th March 2014
  #230
Deleted c1b33bf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeHayduke View Post
Something like the Elkorus can probably turn most synths into a stringer:

If I didn't have a stringer already, I don't know if I'd choose the digital Streichfett or an analog efx device to add to the efx chain, but the compactness and immediate ease of use of the Strechfett module is a plus.

Maybe they should do a Mellotron too, the only digital ones available are pretty spency.
Wow the demos are pretty amazing on that. The designer even used the same delay chips as in the original solina string.
Old 13th March 2014
  #231
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I don't really think this is going to be aimed at celebrities anyway......
Old 13th March 2014
  #232
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Better audio quality demo.

Old 13th March 2014
  #233
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So is it possible to bypass or control the depth of the string effect or is everything always divided down ? There's a depth control in the effects section but I don't see a way to control the depth of the overall effect.
Old 13th March 2014
  #234
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Beyond the specifications of this particular product, I hope that the interest revealed here and in other forums finally encourages manafacturers to look past the saturated analog monosynth market towards analog paraphonic instruments.
Old 13th March 2014
  #235
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I just played it at the musikmesse but I must say I'm not blown away...
Old 13th March 2014
  #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FubarSnafu View Post
Better audio quality demo.

Hmm - sounds quite plasticy for my tastes.
Especially the top end lacks sheen - seems shaved off and flat.
Old 13th March 2014
  #237
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GAS Interest curve;

Y Axis is excitement level in 'Take my money' units.

X Axis is time from announcement of new 'analogue' or 'analog-y' machine in minutes.



Stephen

Old 13th March 2014
  #238
bry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wendell r. View Post
An entirely digital hardware recreation of a stringer, with 'string synthesizer' written on it, would be a pretty pointless move I think. It seems much more likely to be either hybrid or analog in sound generation, with digital and/or analog effects on top.
It's digital, look at its features, size and price, it's quite obvious. They say so themselves in one of the videos.

I don't see why calling it a "string synthesizer" makes in pointless, there's tons of digital synthesizers out there.
Old 13th March 2014
  #239
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I love string synths. I think this one sounds great. However it doesn't seem to sparkle like either of the stringers that I owned (Elka Rhapsody 610 & Crumar Orchestrator). So it seems to me that the big benefit is the size of the box and the effects.

Regardless, for $200 I'm very seriously considering getting one of these.
Old 13th March 2014
  #240
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It'll be more like 400 dollars, partially due to the expense of a European company distributing to the US. Though as JRRshop has shown, eventually the price of the Waldorf stuff comes down a bit.
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